HOME | DD

ten-tackles In reply to ??? [2011-08-15 16:02:29 +0000 UTC]

Excuse me while I explode.
~Drake

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Laineyfantasy In reply to ??? [2011-08-15 09:43:40 +0000 UTC]

I like this,love the different pannels with hojo and the others, your work is great

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

AgeofZero In reply to ??? [2011-08-15 07:27:21 +0000 UTC]

It's not the fact that people like Hojo that surprises me. It's that there's enough people to have made a fan club that does. Which makes less sense, but I just...
What?

Your art is nice, I don't mean anything bad. I just am surprised that people like Hojo.

👍: 0 ⏩: 3

RavynneNevyrmore In reply to AgeofZero [2011-08-15 16:27:08 +0000 UTC]

He's an important character. Why wouldn't he have fans?

Character fandom doesn't mean you agree with that character or even like the character as a person. More often than not it means you appreciate the complexity of the character and the character's impact on his world.

I appreciate the character for this reason, although admittedly SE continually botches every opportunity to make Hojo into so much more than a flat archetype...sigh.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

AgeofZero In reply to RavynneNevyrmore [2011-08-15 19:39:25 +0000 UTC]

I know very well that he's an important character. Logically, I get that he would have fans. Emotionally, not so much.
I get what you're saying, honest. I like a few characters that are admittedly not the best of people. There's a logical understanding, but the emotional override goes
"YOU GUYS, YOU'RE BEING A FAN OF HOJO. YOU KNOW, THE GUY WHO FUCKED EVERYONE UP?? ANYONE REMEMBER THAT??"
even though I 1000% know better.

So I'm not looking down on any fandom for Hojo. It just rallies against my gooey emotional center that likes to be yelling in shock about stuff that makes perfect sense logically.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

RavynneNevyrmore In reply to AgeofZero [2011-08-15 21:23:42 +0000 UTC]

No, I get what you mean. I still raeg when I see him, especially when he is humanized too much. Though I think that's more because it's creepy to see him displayed in a romantic/sexual context, and/or because displaying him as a character capable of love or compassion is so horribly out of character that it always seems like the artist didn't even try to capture Hojo and instead just drew something that looks like Hojo and they try to say is Hojo but is really just a character that they invented out of what they wanted Hojo to be.

Oddly, though, it doesn't bother me as much when they do the same thing to Sephiroth. I guess because in those situations I just roll my eyes and say, "Bishounen fangirls... " Maybe I expect more of Hojo fans so I'm more disappointed by them and infuriated when they fall into the same shallow pitfalls of superficial Sephiroth fangirls.

👍: 0 ⏩: 2

AgeofZero In reply to RavynneNevyrmore [2011-08-15 23:17:16 +0000 UTC]

As far as Sephiroth goes, I always thought he used to be human. I mean, now the only thing keeping him from being assimilated is his fixation on Cloud. I get that; he's focusing all his thoughts on Cloud so he can remain himself and it only half works.
But before, when he was just General Sephiroth. I thought he had a humanity center protected by a cold business front. So people who make Seph seem to have a heart aren't doing it totally wrong, though they may be putting that characterization in the wrong situation.
(also, points for the TVTropes page; I've read that one 3 or 4 times now. xD)

BUT YEAH, I'M DEFENDING THE DRACO-ING AS FAR AS SEPHIROTH IS CONCERNED. With Hojo, you know his motivations are pretty much to see what organism A and organism B do when they're combined. He's all for science, and doesn't pretend otherwise. Fans who make Hojo have a heart have no excuse, I agree. The thought of Hojo with any sort of compassion is actually really creepy, so I guess that kind of characterization would make an awesome horror story/nightmare sequence. Why would anyone WANT Hojo to be something other than what he is?

There's a difference between characters who had compassion (in whatever form) but lost it and characters who never gave a damn in the first place.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

RavynneNevyrmore In reply to AgeofZero [2011-08-17 18:34:33 +0000 UTC]

Well sure, there's a big difference between pre-Nibelheim Seph and post-Nibelheim Seph. But pre-Nibelheim Seph is gone and no stale Mary Sue in the world (including Aeris ) is going to "change him back into who he was" through the sheer power of love or whatever.

As far as pre-Nibelheim Seph goes, I could see some believable quasi-romantic encounters being written, but obviously they couldn't have been long-lasting or we would have heard about them already. Maybe a teenage crush that never went anywhere, some one-night stands with groupies when he was a big military hero, but none of this TRULUV bs that fangirls try to write him into. Obviously no romantic encounter made a big impact on him. (I could however see myself shipping ElfeXSephiroth if the story had allowed room for that. They had that neat little interaction in BC, and if she had stuck around, I could see him finding her worthy of more than a physical attraction.)

I just don't think Hojo has or ever had the capacity to unselfishly love another human being. I think he was fucked up as a child. I think he wants to own people, and I'm sure he wasn't a virgin on his wedding night (again, cheap one-night stands), but I don't think he could ever be bothered with the whole romantic courtship bullshit or committing to another person. That's why I think his marriage to Lucrecia was basically a logical paperwork arrangement.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

AgeofZero In reply to RavynneNevyrmore [2011-08-17 21:16:56 +0000 UTC]

I know that his personality isn't coming back. I was just saying that it existed. If a fan wants to write him with that kind of personality (which I usually see in CC-era fanfic since that's what I read), then right on.

I get your argument. If I were a little more hardcore, then yeah I'd probably feel the same way. I'm pretty laid back, though, so all the characterizations that are... we'll say 75% canon in the fanfics I read are good enough for me. It's kinda interesting to read Sephiroth actually caring and focusing on an individual. If he were the kind who could actually love someone for reals, then I would imagine he'd be the kind to commit 100%.

But yeah, your image of Sephiroth and romance is the right one. I always thought of him in canon as the kind to make a few close friendships and tolerate everyone else. I really thought he was close to Angeal and Genesis in Crisis Core. If he actually wasn't, don't correct me because I like their friendship. I'm not sure Sephiroth is emotionally equipped to really LOVE anyone. He's a SOLDIER, and he's rather business-oriented by default.
I still need to play Before Crisis! D:

I agree with the whole point of your Hojo rant, except I took it as he would think love is a bother and therefore not worth the time it takes when he could be doing science-related things for his own gain. Not to say that he doesn't like the ladies (they seem to like him in FF7, however that works), he just doesn't care at all about relationships. But yeah. I don't really disagree with any of your points, I just add some things in for my headcanon.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

RavynneNevyrmore In reply to AgeofZero [2011-08-18 02:54:37 +0000 UTC]

I know that his personality isn't coming back. I was just saying that it existed. If a fan wants to write him with that kind of personality (which I usually see in CC-era fanfic since that's what I read), then right on.

Sure, if it's CC era. The problem with that though is that it's all past events, and when they try to write in "Sephiroth had this big earth shattering romance that he harbored in his heart forever after," it isn't believable because we KNOW he didn't, unless it's AU. And AU never interested me much, personally. AU just gives authors a reason to not have to stay true to character.


But yeah, your image of Sephiroth and romance is the right one. I always thought of him in canon as the kind to make a few close friendships and tolerate everyone else. I really thought he was close to Angeal and Genesis in Crisis Core. If he actually wasn't, don't correct me because I like their friendship.

I was never talking about friendships. Sure, he was close to Genesis and Angeal. And if he ever did have a relationship I'm sure he would have taken that seriously, too. I just think he was one of those guys who only stuck to friendships because he didn't know how to handle relationships. Maybe he never found a girl "right" for him or maybe his lingering feelings of being different from others made him feel as though he could never be in a relationship, so he never got close to anyone.

I know this one guy with a lot of friends...a LOT of friends. Very popular, very likeable guy. Sweet. Attractive. But he's never in a relationship because something about him just shies away from relationships. He's attracted to women, women are attracted to him, but there's just that mental block preventing him from ever being able to make it work out with anyone because somewhere deep inside him is a part of himself that doesn't WANT it to work out...because, I think, of fear— fear that they won't accept him, fear that they'll leave him...because he, too, lost his mother at a young age, and now somewhere inside the irrational part of his brain he thinks that all women will do that to him. He handles *friendships* just fine, though. I can see Sephiroth's situation being very much like his.

...Heh, that's the first time I've ever drawn a parallel between those two. I feel a little dirty.


I agree with the whole point of your Hojo rant, except I took it as he would think love is a bother and therefore not worth the time it takes when he could be doing science-related things for his own gain. Not to say that he doesn't like the ladies (they seem to like him in FF7, however that works), he just doesn't care at all about relationships.

That too. That's very interrelated with what I said, actually. And I wasn't ranting!

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

AgeofZero In reply to RavynneNevyrmore [2011-08-18 04:05:51 +0000 UTC]

I know you weren't talking about friendships, I was just saying that that's how I think of CC Sephiroth. Also, fanfiction is fanfiction, so it's entertaining and AU by default unless the writer of the original story is lurking around writing stuff in their playground. They probably have better things to do, but I never rule it out. Anyways, it seriously doesn't bother me. I guess I don't find fic where Seph is seriously life-changingly in love with someone. I usually wander around the ones where he has friend relationships or flings. Or he's way too interested in future!Cloud and everyone thinks it's creepy since future!Cloud wants to kill him. That wasn't a romantic thing at all, though.
I'm the one who rambles here, ahaha.

No, you weren't ranting. I just misuse words all the time. If you were ranting, it was the good kind of rant that just gets the information across in bulk. Polite ranting.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

RavynneNevyrmore In reply to AgeofZero [2011-08-18 04:24:29 +0000 UTC]

Not all fanfiction is AU. There's fanfiction that takes place after the compilation, fanfiction that novelizes the compilation, and fanfiction that portrays things that could have conceivably happened within the compilation (but the compilation never said it did, and never said it couldn't have).

AU is when things established in the compilation are completely thrown out the window on purpose. I find that to be lazy.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

AgeofZero In reply to RavynneNevyrmore [2011-08-18 05:03:35 +0000 UTC]

Oh, well there's that. I neglected to remember those genres. Silly me... I just read a lot of "maybe-possibly-potentially could have happened if you think about it way too hard and move some minor things around" fic. Or outright AU. I'm pretty chill about fanfic.
I do like novelizations, though. Those are always fun.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

CrimsonSun In reply to RavynneNevyrmore [2011-08-15 22:13:33 +0000 UTC]

*Threadhacks*

Personally, I try to be as IC as possible when portraying the good prof. But, eh, I'm much more human than he is, so sometimes I feel the need to have a bit of fun with him and give him sentimentality that he canonly doesn't have. For my own emotional fulfillment.

I'd still argue that he does have more of a personal life than the games let on, though. And that he is capable of love, but it's not a love most people would recognise, understand, or tolerate. Compassion, okay, not so much.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

RavynneNevyrmore In reply to CrimsonSun [2011-08-15 22:37:21 +0000 UTC]

And that he is capable of love, but it's not a love most people would recognise, understand, or tolerate.

I'd argue that isn't love. Selfish love is not love. There are other words that describe those emotions more accurately: infatuation, obsession, possessiveness, dependency, etc. They don't equate to love, or at least my and/or the common definition of it.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

CrimsonSun In reply to RavynneNevyrmore [2011-08-15 22:54:39 +0000 UTC]

Ahhh - infatuation, obsession, possessiveness - spot on, Ravynne! In which case, I guess your definition of love and mine are different. That horrible selfishness is what Hojo's 'affection' is all about, sadly. Not all the boys can be a gentleman like Vincent and let the girl he loves walk away because it's what will make her happy (or so she says). ^^

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

RavynneNevyrmore In reply to CrimsonSun [2011-08-17 18:35:45 +0000 UTC]

I also think Hojo is much too defensive to ever allow even himself to believe he has any "weak" emotions for other people.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Enide-Dear In reply to AgeofZero [2011-08-15 07:59:45 +0000 UTC]

*sighs* I agree with you I have no idea what turns people into Hojo fans....it's just that one day you wake up and you've become one! It's like a disease! And we all know who is spreading diseases on Gaia, dont' we?

Anyway, I mostly blame CrimsonSun and Crisis Perverted for converting me

👍: 0 ⏩: 2

AgeofZero In reply to Enide-Dear [2011-08-15 19:43:05 +0000 UTC]

Hahaha, I'll have to make a note to keep my opinions mine.
Hojo is a vital character (without him, there's no Final Fantasy VII), but yeah. Just... So much of his time was spent hurting people. I can't really like him.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Enide-Dear In reply to AgeofZero [2011-08-16 09:23:33 +0000 UTC]

I know, I know, I've spent many hours of fanfic torturing him. At one point the Remnants ate him But...he's also fun to sent up stripping in the Honey Bee Inn or hitting on girls at Costa del Sol.

I guess I'm just utterly confused when it comes to by feelings about Hojo, but that's ok. It's my general feeling about most of life after all

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

AgeofZero In reply to Enide-Dear [2011-08-17 03:04:29 +0000 UTC]

Stripping.
That's all I need to hear, now you owe me brain bleach.

I'm not confused about how I think of Hojo at all. I do not like him. He needs to exist otherwise there'd be no story we know and love, but then he's just a means to an end and I hate him more.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Enide-Dear In reply to AgeofZero [2011-08-17 19:01:09 +0000 UTC]

*sends brain bleach* Don't use it all though, I need to remove some fluff stains on my brain

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

AgeofZero In reply to Enide-Dear [2011-08-17 21:15:36 +0000 UTC]

Thank you very much. */scrubscrubscrub*

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

CrimsonSun In reply to Enide-Dear [2011-08-15 08:51:13 +0000 UTC]

I AM A STIGMA WOOO

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

CrimsonSun In reply to AgeofZero [2011-08-15 07:48:46 +0000 UTC]

It's fine; we don't blame people for not liking Hojo - it's the more logical stance to take. The Hojo fanclub, would you believe it, has existed for more than seven years, and we're right proud of ourselves.

And hey, if you ever wanted to know why people like Hojo, I'm sure more than one of us would be happy to give you an earful, myself included.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

AgeofZero In reply to CrimsonSun [2011-08-15 19:45:55 +0000 UTC]

You guys kinda rock. That's just crazy, and I can appreciate crazy.
I don't think there's ever going to be a bridge between my logical "Hojo is a character and therefore can have a fandom" versus emotional "Hojo fucked everyone and their dog up, who could ever like that?!" mindsets. So don't go trying to convince me! XD

That being said, if you can tell me in a comment that won't fill my entire monitor, I'd listen.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

BustyShinRaSOLDIER In reply to ??? [2011-08-15 04:04:06 +0000 UTC]

Oooh I can't wait ~chibi Reee squees~

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

AshleyCope In reply to ??? [2011-08-15 03:46:39 +0000 UTC]

This is a neat thing. I support this thing.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

CrimsonSun In reply to AshleyCope [2011-08-15 07:50:03 +0000 UTC]

I'm always so happy when you drop by.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

TheRainbowMess In reply to ??? [2011-08-14 22:19:16 +0000 UTC]

VELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD~ <3

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Phoneix-Faerie In reply to ??? [2011-08-14 21:42:38 +0000 UTC]

these are great lovely art!

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Enide-Dear In reply to ??? [2011-08-14 21:12:56 +0000 UTC]

Now I want to know what lies behind all these pics! Whatshould Sephiroth concider? And what the hell has Hojo said to Genesis?! please tell me there will be answers to these questions!

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

CrimsonSun In reply to Enide-Dear [2011-08-15 07:50:28 +0000 UTC]

There are no answers, ever. Only more questions.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

RavynneNevyrmore In reply to ??? [2011-08-14 20:55:33 +0000 UTC]

I totally thought that was supposed to be Vincent in #4. Until I clicked your Tumblr. Then I thought you had made an animation short that you named "Case of Hojo."

...which I immediately demand that you do, by the way. Except you must appoint me as your canon(-ish) believability supervisor.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

CrimsonSun In reply to RavynneNevyrmore [2011-08-15 07:53:40 +0000 UTC]

Vincent will make a cameo, not to worry. There is no Hojo without Vincent and vice versa in my universe.

And oh Ravynne, if only I could make pictures move.

👍: 0 ⏩: 2

RavynneNevyrmore In reply to CrimsonSun [2011-08-15 16:23:45 +0000 UTC]

Well then why don't you do a doujin? Not Compass, I mean. A cohesive story about your "headcanon" Hojo.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

CrimsonSun In reply to RavynneNevyrmore [2011-08-15 22:16:06 +0000 UTC]

But I'm still so far from finishing Compass! D:

I was hoping I could just keep doing Case of Hojo screenshots and let you lot fill in the gaps yourselves, haha!

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

RavynneNevyrmore In reply to CrimsonSun [2011-08-15 22:37:37 +0000 UTC]

Incorporate them together, then.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

ten-tackles In reply to CrimsonSun [2011-08-15 16:01:22 +0000 UTC]

*signs up to help you with that*
DAMN THE WORLD'S LACK OF FREE ANIMATORS. DAMN THEM!!!
~Drake

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Krazy-Kira-Lynn In reply to ??? [2011-08-14 20:40:39 +0000 UTC]

LOVE IT!!! You Should Do One Of These For Each Story! It Is So Amazing!

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

gttorres In reply to ??? [2011-08-14 17:18:02 +0000 UTC]

I like this....A LOT!!! Especially the second panel!!!

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

oOCrystalOo In reply to ??? [2011-08-14 17:02:46 +0000 UTC]

Ughh darn, that really fooled me for a second or two (or a few minutes... -_-V, there are just to many FF VII parts outthere even if you don't count the japanese mobile phone games.)
Anyway, amazing work.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0