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fallout161 โ How Far Ive Come
Published: 2004-08-13 23:27:58 +0000 UTC; Views: 11568; Favourites: 75; Downloads: 4977
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I could use some serious advice about my work. Why is it going nowhere?here are some areas that I haven't improved on (and in some cases, gotten worse at) in the past few years:
1) imaginitive poses
2) different, dynamic angles
3) drawing full-body characters (most of the time I just draw torsos with no feet)
4) inking
5) scenes that depict action
6) scenes that include backgrounds
7) designing my own characters
8) drawing objects other than the human body
9) drawing/designing clothing, wrinkles
10) drawing the human body, esp. hands and legs
11) using my imagination
12) drawing hair that actually looks like hair (and not spikes or hay)
13) productivity, prolificity
14) speed
15) number collaborations or trades or gift arts for other artists
16) number of commissions
17) number of prints created/sold
18) using a variety of media
19) using/adapting new styles
20) completing bigger, more ambitious pictures
21) pushing artwork to further and further points of "finished," resulting in better quality of a final product
Here are some things I *have* improved upon:
1) CGing techniques
2) Drawing anime eyes
...I'm not feeling too good about myself now.
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Comments: 252
from hell,
Matt, can i ask you a question?
now, as much as i'd like to jump on the bandwagon with the rest of your fans and sycophants (i do really like your work), i think you might be completely missing the point.
the question is: what is the difference between an artist and an illustrator?
it's a pretty tough one, and after following your ups and downs, i think a pretty obvious component to your dissatisfaction. the pat question would be 'why do you draw?' but that just breeds defensive responses.
see, as far as i can tell, anyone (yes anyone) can be trained to be an illustrator. it's like piano playing; anyone can play a piano, even get good at it. what makes the difference between concert pianist and sunday school teacher?
well, let's talk about walking for a sec; when did you stop concentrating on 'this foot, then that foot, then this foot...?' at some point you started thinking in terms of 'go there or go here.' at that point you stopped thinking in terms of technique and began to consider destination.
it's the same way with the piano. why does a famous concert pianist get thousands of dollars for playing the exact same tune as the sunday school teacher? they both know the piece. they both execute it well. what's the difference?
i guess you might call it finesse, but i consider it the difference between an illustrator and an artist. both depict images of subjects. both excel at technique, quantity, and quality. what the artist does, quite literally, is turn it into an art.
the pianist doesn't just plunk out the notes in some kind of precise duplication of the sheet music, he puts feeling into it. but it goes farther than that. it isn't just a consistent emotion, it's a communication, at times even a dialogue with a live audience.
an artist is able to take the simple act of depicting an image and 'say' something with it (along with or even in contrast with the subject matter). what makes it an art and not just illustration is this ethereal communication. i'm not sure i'm doing an adequate job illustrating this difference; just give it some thought.
the quandary you seem to be facing is common enough in the art world. a lot of older, bitter, cynical artists (who could view you as competition) will say things like "you don't have anything to say, you're too young." to which i say bah!
you've got some really potent messages in your artwork, i like these specifically: [link] [link] [link] [link] [link] (i always liked the pencil better) [link] (a personal favorite of mine)
when i look at these, i 'hear' you. i may not 'hear' what you intend, i may 'hear' things in pieces you don't 'speak' in. the point is i get something out of the artwork more than just what i see. no matter how much you focus on technique or approach your ideal, if you aren't 'speaking' to us, your fans, you won't feel satisfied.
personally, i see a huge difference between your two choices. the elder is more raw, more immediate, more 'spoken' from your heart. the second is more perfected, more deliberate, more idealized, but lacks a certain 'message.' you seem a much more confident and perhaps deliberate artist; your list of 'areas to grow' shows a certain introspection about technique.
what you seem to need then is 'something to say.'
can't help you there.
in my experience, artists are the people who do the 'heavy lifting' when it comes to having emotions. through their artwork, they communicate what they've felt and experienced. that 'takes the load off' of normal people, people who do not have the artist's capacity for emotion. 'normal people' can feel these things by simply experiencing the artwork (sort of pre-digested).
doubt, especially self-doubt, is one such emotion. if anything, i'd suggest you do artwork while wallowing in this complex of emotion.
what i guess i'm really saying is that all you need to do to really improve your artwork is to go and feel things intensely. go feel them and then come back to us and draw whatever strikes you (subject-wise) with those feelings.
no amount of technique improvement will make a difference if you don't have anything to 'say.' it'll all seem pointless. in the past, i've really felt that your technique improved specifically when the need was there to 'communicate.' don't worry so much about technique, that'll come when you need it.
besides, going through your gallery, you seem to have a handle on every single item on your checklist. that's why i'm convinced you need to concentrate on the things that make you draw and the things you have to 'say.'
also, one bit of personal advice? you are an artist not because you can draw, but because you can't stop drawing.
catch me when you can,
ripjack
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from hell,
thank you very kindly.
catch me when you can,
ripjack
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I read through all the comments on this work, and found very few of them to even have the semblance of being helpful. However, to see that this popped up while I was busy typing my own...you're worldliness impresses me. You really are in tune with the meaning of being an artist.
I make mention in my comment that there are a few people who make a genuine strife to be constructive. What you said right here adds you that handful of individuals. I just want you to know that. You are indeed a good person.
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Sometimes it is hard to find problems with a piece of art sometimes and ripjack's point stands, i have printed out many works of art and traced them to try to "hear" (as he put it) what the artist had gone through (and failed sometimes). i'd like to figure out what the artist has seen to be wrong with the picture, and frankly i dont always see what the problem was. you comment does stand too, it isnt always the artist. he has thousands of people who could help but haven't, few have. I sure as hell haven't. I truely wish i could have an eye for art. I will try to give constructive critism when possible, if i cant i wont always comment depending on the person (and your probably right about the triple digit word count comment for me). I personally think that there isnt much room for improvement for matt (no offense), he's damn good; Maybe he's reached/reaching his appex of improvement. He think that the problem is him because of the better art[ist(s)] which make himtry to work harder to make a better picture just to find is inferior (or at least that how i understand it) to another picture. I frankly cant cant give constructive critisism because im too much of a scatter brain most of the time (as you can see from the comment), but i will certainly try despite how short and crappy it may seem.
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lol aw come on..wth is up with that 0% improvment....... theres at least 50-60% improvment >_^
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What about your Vash picture? I think you chose the wrong picture to compare to your older ones. And yes, maybe you haven't worked on many aspects of your drawing, but you have improved on some. So, don't look down on yourself for it. You can still work on the others, right?
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OK...I must admit I would feel bad too if I`m in your place!
I mean...after all those years and you improve NONE!
OK...I will tell you my secret...the way I got so good as I am today!
DRAW A MANGA!!! By drawing a comic you`re improving in all aspects! Poses,angles,action poses ,expressions...and everything else!
And look how thinks look in real life! Especially folding!
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I find your works to be greatly imaginative, creative, unique, interesting, and all other things you feel you aren't improving on.
You use angles I certainly cannot yet accomplish and whatever you draw, however you draw it, it looks good because it's all your own style.
Your like a daisy among roses. Totally standing out, totally different but not lesser. Just perfect in your own way.
The only person you should be trying to impress is yourself. And so whatever areas you want to improve on for yourself, just force yourself to start drawing those areas specifically. The only way to improve on anything is to push yourself to do it and show others. If you draw something and don't post it, then you won't feel encouraged to strive harder.
No matter what you do though, do not feel down. Artistic growth sometimes comes in growth spurts and those happen from time to time usually without notice of the artist. Relax, enjoy your work and what you are proud of about it. Don't get upset over the things you love and do for fun.
<3 Keep rockin.
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Studies, studies, studies.
I'm nowhere as good as you are, but in the past six months, I've seen an incredible growth in my ability because I'm peeling myself away from anime style and working on life studies.
I'm not saying that you should give up anime at all, but I think that playing with realistic figures and weird perspectives would really help you out.
Regards,
John Arena
(Try this: [link] , incredible resource)
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The best way to improve on most of those all at once is to draw comic pages with full backgrounds. You don't actually need a comic, just an idea of something happening to your characters and drawing it in comic form. Covers most areas all at once.
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You haven't changed that much. I don't know why. Maybe because you've passed your years of amazing progress. It's harder for people to learn once they've passed a certain age. Maybe that's what happened to you. And overall you seem much more disenchanted with art and...everything. I'm betting on it being some sort of phsycological problem. I'm also secretly betting on the fact that I don't think your drawings mean anything to you. Not that you should be a super emotional artist. I'm just saying....I've always thought that you might find more pleasure in art if you found some solace in looking at your pictures. Maybe if you drew about things that you thought mattered. I'm not saying this as definite fact, just a suggestion. I draw best when it means something to me, or when the image I'm making envokes some kind of feeling in me. Even if it's really indirect and not something anybody else would catch. Espically nostalgia. Not that this is how your art *should be*, just that maybe it might help you with your block. And of course, drawing more still can't hurt. I once again challenge you to draw a large crowd of people. Something like...maybe a overhead view of a crowd of people looking up at something. All with mixed emotions and different objects or something like that.
In the end, I think that maybe your problem might be something that nobody else can help you with. Something you'll have to work out on your own. Sucks. Sorry. *hug*
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I have the same problem all the time, but your stuff is amazing! You should be proud of yourself! ^_^
aRTie
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no improvements because your're allready alllreeeaadyy perfect?
maybe yesss? :/
probrably said allready?
hmhmhmmmm. Of course, I've bought/ going to buy most of your prints, so im not the best to critique your style :9
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Trying new poses, dynamic poses, action scenes, realistical proportions, more 'alive' characters, better background ?
Try drawing a comic.
A page a day, preferably fighting or action scenes, different scenes if you want to.
You don't have to show it to anyone.
Draw it what you would've like to see in a comic, varying perspectives, close up on the faces, zoom out on the field, give special effects like wind or rain.
You'll do lotsa practice that way.
And it's quite fun.
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I really think you're just being too hard on yourself hun. I've only been creating art for four years and i still have incredible amouts of improvement ahead of me. You're amazing. I'm sure you have favorite artists... if you want to work with your style try using them as examples. Practice sketching in their styles.. different eyes, lips, facial expressions, body shapes.. etc. Try studying more then one artist at a time and sketch out all the different things you like.. even be ridiculously repetative. Then start drawing and creating characters just as you normally would, pulling different elements from the artist styles you just sketched from. You then have several different ways of drawing everything that you usually do, and it's reshaped and mixed in with your own style making it something of it's own.
Something that might be really awesome, and maybe kind of silly to you.. but is just a fun thing to do; try not planning anything.. just creating art from the ultimate of randomness... the first thing that comes to mind. If you feel at a loss for ideas.. imagination.. then just make a dream. It doesn't have to make sense, most the time they don't. a jar.. a flying jar-with a star inside-flying over the ocean-and ocean of lava- the jar is melting- the lava is the sky- the star is falling down- a woman is bathing- in the jar that's raining down- etc. It's like free writing, things just start to happen. I could never free write.. but there are things in our heads that we never know exist unless we let them discover us.
I hope i've helped you out in some way. We can't be please with everything we do, and if you're the best kind of artist.. you'll never post your best work, you'll never see your best work... because in your mind you can always do better then what you put in front of you, and that's what keeps you going. Best, does not exist. I love your mind, where's the rest?
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i duno about u but i like the new pic. perhaps you just need new ideas. ur style hasnt changed, but i think thats why people like ur work. perhaps ur doing the same things or your not inspired to do new stuff. try new types of art
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While everyone says ur amazing and all the nice cute stuff I shall give u my take on your art.
1. imaginative poses.....IM SURE You got and watch movies. Basically everytime me and my friend goes out to watch a movie. When its over we always say what would be awsome to draw....angles, pose, cg, color and all that good stuff. I suggest go watch the New HERO movie comin out soon, by the same ppl who did croching tiger hidden dragon. Probally I Robot havnt seen it but its given me ideas. Just go and do a bunch of stuf and look around. Im sure somethign will come up.
2. Dynamic angles.....look at angled pics...from the top of u windo down....from under ur desk...get in the weirdest spots imaginable.
3. torso no feet.........Draw a bunch of feet and legs.
4. inking...i have no clue.
OK NEWAY I cant point out everything im only a 16 year old and u have like 21 questions. Blah.
My improvment from 2002 - 2004 thou..u might like, I try my best at drawing, stay away from anime and work with realism alot more now.
1st deviation - [link]
1st cg - [link]
Latest drawign and cg deviation - [link]
2002----- [link]
2003----- [link] [link] [link]
2004----- [link] [link] [link]
I loved your work and some of the ideas I have where inspired by your wonderfull art.
I would hate to see you loose it.
Even if u never did talk to me or looked at my work.
I would never wanna see one of the artist I admire stumble.
marcos
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0%?? No way! at LEAST 20%.. Look at the change in detail!.. it's amazing.. Your work looks much cleaner and just more professional.. I wish i culd draw as good as you could in 2002 haha
Quit being so modest 
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my comment will be lost in the sea of praise, but i'll leave a post anyway.
the one thing you do have that very few artists do is a style of your own. a gorgeous, unique, signature style that people will look at, and love, and go, "hey, matt page drew that!".. because true artists know that they could always be better, you seem a bit disappointed that your art hasn't changed. it hasn't, much, but it's beautiful nonetheless.
so, my advice is this:
don't be so hard on yourself. if you're wanting to improve, you should take it one step at a time.. because listing so many things you dislike about your own works all at once makes it seem overwhelmingly bleak, when in fact your work is already something extremely special.
i'm honored to have signed prints 
i can't wait to buy more at awa, either.
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aww.. matt... don't be down... everyone loves your art, me especially.. i wish i had money, i'd buy commissions from you all the time! i think all artists go thru this crag... i can't draw imaginitive poses or cool angles either... i would suggest taking a break from drawing and instead looking at the works of others (or break out something like a vanity fair and study the models in them, they're always in weirdass poses O.o). you're my favorite DA artist!! don't discredit yourself
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i think the image is fantastic.. plus i thought that the title meant the character's life.. of war.. wow ..
in any case keep up doing what you are doing. and don't u dare give this up 
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ok, let me post some of MY pics, and you try and complain after that. You are a very amazing artist!
I've been trying to draw my new charachter, and I CANT GET PAST HIS GORRAM LEG. Sad... well, his leg, and the knife he uses. Whatever, the point is, GEEZ. you very good.
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You cant improve on perfection, your style is unique so there isnt much more that can be inproved one that.
Maybe the only thing I can think of is as you mentioned, poses. (mind you, some of your work has exelent poses) I think just recently they havent had much feeling to them, tis all ^_^
And think of it this way, wether you think you are getting nowhere or not, you are still 100 times better than alot of others on DA (Including myself)
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If you feel you aren't making any progress, maybe you should break out of the box and try improving 
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Despite the fact that someone as popular as yourself doesnt notice the little up and coming artists liek myself, I just had to give my two cents because I love everything you do. and I personally would slap anyone who said otherwise.
Now then, about all this negativity 
I know myself, when I try to force myself to improve, to do anything extrordinary, it never comes out as expected. you need to lay back, look at your art, flip through some old pieces. Compare and contrast. See how you have gotten better, and try to outweigh the bad with the good. Where you think you need help or more practice, slowly introduce more of that area into your style, not all at once because then it would be overwhelming, too much to handle and you might crash and burn. Art is step by step, talent doesnt just come in a day 
~Another faithful follower and lover of arts
~Kitty Trish Kat~
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On the contrary, your art has matured a huge amount in proportions, especially the face shape. Looking at those two pictures I'd say you have also improved a fair amount in clothing design and detailing. Your linework has a lot more character now than it used to. I really think you're really asking too much of yourself here.
As for advice; if you think your CG has improved, but your drawing hasn't then spend more time on drawing than colouring in.
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Actually, I think the clothing looks much better in the recent one. I've seen some pics of yours that have been absolutely stunning, so you have improved some, though I know you may not believe me (hell, you don't even know me, so why would you?). I've seen some real life sketches you've done that were extremely good, maybe try doing more of those? Focus heavily on the areas your not proficient in (draw hands and legs until you never want to see another miniskirt for the rest of your life? XD) and if all else fails, try to mimic the style of other people if it's completely different than your's in order to help you become more flexible in your own style.
That's the best I can offer...I know how you feel, though. Sometimes I'll look back and want to scream. I find the art from when I was younger more free, I would draw because I wanted to and I'd draw whatever, however, and somehow that made the art more fun to look at, less stiff...
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dude, i don't care what you say, from what i can see from your art (not just the two you've displayed here) i think you have improved a great deal, you're my favorite artist here at DA and for a damned good reason, your work has and most likely will always inspire me to improve my own art and for that i am thankful.
so for fucks sake, keep it up.
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I think we're all our own worst critic. Personally, I feel like although your art might not necessarily have 'improved loads' over the past 27 months, it still has a unique charm to it that only you're capable of carrying out. That alone makes you a wonderful artist. Not only that, but you're very capable of drawing awesome clothing designs, and neat backgrounds... I've seen them! @_@; Maybe the reason why you haven't improved too much is because you can already do so much awesome stuff. Give yerself some credit!
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I'm too lazy to read through the 60-odd comments, so forgive me if I repeat anything.
From looking at those two pictures, and thinking back to some of your previous pictures, you have imporved in more areas! Your lines are cleaner and more solid, the general anatomy has improved (example: in the first picture, her torso kind of ends after her hips, where in the second one it is more developed and realistic), there is a lot more detail. People tend to be their own worst judges, and I'm a huge victim of that.
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I dunno, I have no right to be saying or telling you anything about your work so...
I just wanna say that it's great. And from this I guess it always has been.
I think your anatomy has become more defined. but that's just me and i'm so very lame.
Everyone has that whole, "crap, i suck. what's wrong with me? why aren't i getting better"...and so on and so on...
I dunno, you can't rush great art.
I know this probably isn't what you wanna hear but...your art is very beautiful. But that's me and the beholderness.
I hope you can advance in the ways you want too when you want to.
Goodluck.
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lol, okaay, well, i tihnk you have gone downstream cep for dat awesome pic of teh clouds, teh clouds, teh clouds, and zeh starz. iza kino like ur old style more i guess, maybe it iz jus des pictures juxaposed here, but i like the old one more
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Improvement or no improvement / your art is still SEX!
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This is exactly how I've been feeling. Thanks for saving me to trouble of asking, I'll just read your replies instead.
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iยดm ulso under this "im not improving a lot" category
one thing i recomend is get someones comic idea, stabilish a deadline, and draw it for some sorta fanzine or etc
somewhere it can be largely viewn and criticized
i like you style with pencils i really do, but i also think you should learn moving a bit away from it and inking, im the exact opposite of you, i dun like penciling but love inks
not much else to say, cant think right now
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well its that you got really good and then you got lazy. its not as new and exciting as it was when you first got good. when i say good i mean good in your own eyes. you got to a high point and insted of going up you are going almost nowhere... i am not 100% sure but it sounds like you are going through the same thing im going through. i could be wrong please dont get angary at me if i am, but i would like to know if i am wrong or not.
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9) drawing/designing clothing, wrinkles
first off, i must say this is wrong. your clothing designs are AMAZING ive said a few times that you should even sell them to some company or something cuz they ROCK
the other stuff just makes it sound like you dont draw a whole lot maybe one every day or every other day. the more you draw the more you can exparament with. i got a whole 3 pages of hands, just hands. and i still suck at drawing them let alone anything below the sholder. point is this all takes practice and patiance (which i dont know why im talking about cuz i sorta feel the same way as u sometimes)
as for imagination thats easy, look around everywhere manga internet books tv anywhere and everywhere. mix and meld ideas for something that will be uniqe. as for hair looking like hair, cant help you im still working on that too X_x
although your hair drawing skills have slightly improved i must say now that i look closely at these two pics as well as anatomy. not much but slightly.
it could also be the fact that you have progressed so far that there is little left to improve on, your a great artist and like anything great you have to be good at what you do you could be just at the point where theres very little left to be good at or get better at.
point is dont beat yourself up about it. your an awsome artist. your styles change your mind changes your art will change. if you look closer it already has. sasha is more of a cartoony drawing while cass is much more realistic even her pants compaired to sashas.
your great, things just take practice. dont feel bad about it
hope this helped ya ^_^
~locked
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Hmmn.. I know this is small, but I hope this helps with your flexability or something.
Try drawing up different expressions, changing how much of the eye is visible and such, so they don't look like they're just staring off blankly. Use body language, like how people cary themselves, bracing or totally relaxed, with their arms folded behind their head, staring with the top part of their eyes covered by drooping top eyeslids...
Sorry if that made no sense.. x.x;
Have you seen Kosuke Fujishima's Oh My Goddess! mangas? I'd suggest you read and obsorb that for hair, since he has a nice flow, if a bit(really) anti-gravity, but it would be helpfull, I hope. It's mainly in the later issues that you see teh anti-gravity flow of it, I think.
Ah well.. Good luck.
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Okay, you've already gotten some encouragement and advice. You've also pointed out that you've been doing a lot of gaming, and admitted that it has cut into your drawing time. Have you been paying attention to the character design in the games you play? Have you been really observing people around you, in movies, on TV? If so, good. You're becoming more aware of what you have to do to push yourself into improving. Therefore, you are improving. Here is the link to a thread on another site that deals with this. [link] Now then, pick yourself up, dust yourself off, get something to eat and drink, leave the games alone for a bit, and get back to drawing. Which is what we all have to do periodically.
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your work's kick arse! don't be so hard on yourself
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Okay persons, u've improved, I can see some obvious anatomy mistakes in the work 27 months ago, her arm, her tail, her chin... and the detail in her body is very undefined , however in ur present day work it looks much better and much more defined, ur hands have improved too, clothing u're pretty good at... I say u've improved. T.T
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Personnally, I think you improved to draw Hands and perpective dear. I saw some of your old works and about the perpective, you improved. Maybe you aren't satisfied with your wori but think about that. You was able to find some good pints, maybe not a lot, but you was able to find, so You can hope dear. That mean that YOU can improve more, maybe it's long to see the difference, but that mean that you take your time. If you wasn't able to find some good points, You could feel depress.
But after watching your art since 3 year agos, I just can say one thing. Don't be bad with yourself, you improved dear.
PS: I know, my english suck, but I think you can understand the main idea,
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Um - geez. Most of those are areas that I'm not too good at myself.
So basically, this comment is useless.
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I see a lot of improvement. Look at all the details you added to the clothes! Wrinkles in the pants, the lines and buckles and belts and zippers! The body looks more solid, the pose is believable. The hair has more detail. Your lineart looks more complete and more confident. There is more motion in the lines. The face has more expression. A lot more details all around. I think you have improved!
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Awwww I wouldnt put yourself down so much! I know I'm definatly not up to your calliber, but I can try to help you out with some things. . .
First off, the overall reason you may be in a rut is you may have reached a point that you were very happy with in your art, so there was no need to try and be better and/or branch out and try different things. But now that you've looked back, you want to keep moving on, and realize that you havent moved much.
with the first few (new poses and angles and clothing and backgrounds and all) Sometimes after drawing for so long, we use up a great deal of different poses and angles and such, until it just starts repeating itself and then we get stuck. My advice here would be to go out, and preferably with a digital camera, observe people. Take pictures (mentaly or with camera) of maybe skaters at a park, or people lounging on a beach or at a park or playing a sport and look at all the odd poses people can get themselves into 
For other things (drawing full body, drawing hands a feet, realistic hair, designing your characters etc), the only thing to do is force yourself to practice. And work from life. from your own hand, or pictures of hair styles or what not. then you can get back into drawing them and being more comfortable with them ^.^
Commissions/Trades/Giftart/Collabs: Well the Giftart is again one of those force it things. it can also help with getting your imagination going to look at artists you admire and try to draw their characters and such. it gets the brain running
Well I hope I could help a little. . . and hope I wasnt insulting by doing so
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I honestly think you've gotten better at clothing (The wrinkles in the pants in the second picture are fantastic!)
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Maybe a look at [link] ? Artistic anatomy never hurts.
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