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Harry-the-Fox — Gigantopithecus blacki size comparison

#blacki #gigantopithecus #gigantopithecusblacki
Published: 2018-05-07 10:22:58 +0000 UTC; Views: 28932; Favourites: 264; Downloads: 113
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Description UPDATE (2x):
A solid size reference for the jaw; Zhang et al. (2016)
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pd…

If anyone was wondering about bLAZZE92's chart, this was one of my references for the skeletal reconstruction;
3uwusw.dm2304.livefilestore.co…
If you're wondering why we ended up with two massively different sizes, the answer lies in the fact my Gigantopithecus has a much bigger jaw, from an exceptionally large specimen.... which closely matches the attached scale to photographs in the above study, and probably where all those photos online came from. Keep in mind, bLAZZE92's image is still a reliable, fair measure- most Gigantopithecus species don't grow close to this size I depicted at all, and neither, it seems, do quite a few G. blacki specimens. bLAZZE92's specimen is quite a typical adult size and easily representative of the animals, mine drawn from a very large individual member of a population of bigger ones.

Anyway, I'll leave the rest of the old description below, as I won't pretend I knew this before making the artwork (cough).

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Ok, I admit. This time I took a bit of a lazy route when reconstructing this animal due to the difficulty in finding more solid sources.... but the end result seems to endorse the same size as the scientific literature, so I think it worked out. It's been sitting in a half-finished state for so long I decided it's time to just release it. Basically I took a photo of a jaw fragment next to a human mandible, and from there I scaled a long series of photos of skeletons and hypothetical skull reconstructions of a few different angles until they matched. Luckily for me, the jaw seemed to match a 13cm measurement, and the overall ape appeared to stand somewhere between 2.5 and 3 meters tall, so I decided it was probably done correctly. Not something I would normally do, but I was getting pretty tired of trawling through tooth-only studies and wild bigfoot theory sites, so had to resort to plan B.

Then came the fleshing out part. I didn't want to do another "ape standing awkwardly upright to demonstrate its 3-meter-tallness", but instead in a comfortable quadrupedal pose, by re-arranging the limbs and body of the skeleton photos. Then came lots, and lots, and lots of Orangutan pictures. I wanted to get the general facial anatomy, without actually just copying an Orangutan (their faces would be slightly differently shaped, after all- especially from the major difference in teeth alone- more on that later). Eventually after a lot of hard work, I managed to get a nice looking face.  Then there was the fur- again, not *too* dissimilar from Orangutans, but I gave a slightly more ruddy/brown/gold hue than the coppery reds of modern Orangutans. This proved extremely hard in photoshop with many attempts looking extremely fake-looking.... but thankfully the amazing KRITA's more sophisticated brushes allowed the wispy, tangled shaggy fur of Orangutans to be more accurately depicted.
Then I needed to illustrate the hands and feet- probably the hardest to research. The big problem with capturing an Orangutan's walk is that they don't have a SPECIFIC walk like knuckle-walking apes do. They'll walk on knuckles, palms, fists... whatever they feel like. Harder still, the vast majority of photos of Orangutans walking on the ground  happen to be in areas thick with grass or leaf litter.... concealing the hands and feet entirely. Naturally a 300kg likely-grounded ape would need a strong walking position, but I felt it a bit of a stretch to instantly imply they convergently-developed strict knuckle-walking, so I opted for a fist-walking position (after finding out exactly what Orangutan hands and feet actually look like from a sideways angle)!

Information I swiped from Wikipedia and this study by Zhang and Harrison (2016), particularly the size, weight and diet.
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pd…

A few other facts:
1- Other gigantopithecus (including giganteus) are substantially smaller than blacki, despite the name.
2- It's possible gigantopithecus may have eaten bamboo as well (which would probably explain how it went extinct, hehe), apparently.
3- For a long time it was believed gigantopithecus was most closely related to humans based on the blunt teeth of the jaw (like ours) rather than pronounced fangs. However, the jaw itself more closely fits the shape of a Pongo ape (Orangutan), which I might point out, had more similar habitat distribution. The evidence suggests the similarities are a coincidence from dietary demands (chewing on hard plants), and Gigantopithecus is NOT a close relative of humans at all (humans are far more closely related to chimps and gorillas than the Pongos.
4- If you're wondering about possible links to hypothetical cryptids like bigfoot and yetis, the answer is most likely NO, even if either did turn out to be real. The reason being that the habitat distribution of Gigantopithecus (India, Vietnam, China, Indonesia) is completely and utterly OUTSIDE the alleged ranges of bigfoot (North America(!!!)) and not-quite-within the alleged Yeti habitat (Himalayas, Central Asia and inland China). So if either turn out to be real, they're probably just something else.
Related content
Comments: 58

TheGreatCoalition750 [2024-01-18 07:50:16 +0000 UTC]

👍: 1 ⏩: 0

sourlemon333 [2023-03-06 12:55:24 +0000 UTC]

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Harry-the-Fox In reply to sourlemon333 [2023-03-08 05:03:40 +0000 UTC]

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sourlemon333 In reply to Harry-the-Fox [2023-03-08 12:38:42 +0000 UTC]

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Tubbylump [2022-06-05 01:24:36 +0000 UTC]

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TheAlternativeApe [2021-09-20 06:28:54 +0000 UTC]

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Harry-the-Fox In reply to TheAlternativeApe [2021-09-20 12:34:12 +0000 UTC]

👍: 1 ⏩: 0

Sarsath [2021-01-19 13:59:05 +0000 UTC]

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Harry-the-Fox In reply to Sarsath [2021-01-20 00:00:38 +0000 UTC]

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nich3860 In reply to Harry-the-Fox [2021-01-20 01:48:25 +0000 UTC]

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nich3860 [2021-01-13 05:14:44 +0000 UTC]

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Harry-the-Fox In reply to nich3860 [2021-01-19 23:58:27 +0000 UTC]

👍: 1 ⏩: 1

nich3860 In reply to Harry-the-Fox [2021-01-20 01:47:28 +0000 UTC]

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Harry-the-Fox In reply to nich3860 [2021-01-20 23:10:33 +0000 UTC]

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IFAMOUSSHREK [2020-11-16 21:35:09 +0000 UTC]

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Harry-the-Fox In reply to IFAMOUSSHREK [2020-11-16 21:43:11 +0000 UTC]

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IFAMOUSSHREK In reply to Harry-the-Fox [2020-11-16 21:57:25 +0000 UTC]

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Harry-the-Fox In reply to IFAMOUSSHREK [2020-12-03 23:00:24 +0000 UTC]

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IFAMOUSSHREK In reply to Harry-the-Fox [2020-12-04 00:02:50 +0000 UTC]

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Harry-the-Fox In reply to IFAMOUSSHREK [2020-12-10 01:25:58 +0000 UTC]

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Yapporaptor97 [2020-11-09 17:22:17 +0000 UTC]

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Harry-the-Fox In reply to Yapporaptor97 [2020-11-09 22:04:52 +0000 UTC]

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dinoboi2001 [2020-07-14 22:52:56 +0000 UTC]

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Harry-the-Fox In reply to dinoboi2001 [2020-07-15 10:20:22 +0000 UTC]

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DenistheTyrant [2020-01-30 22:48:35 +0000 UTC]

Man I wonder what would a Utahraptor do to this thing. Would be something nice, Gorilla vs Raptor battle.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Harry-the-Fox In reply to DenistheTyrant [2020-02-03 13:12:02 +0000 UTC]

Probably wouldn't be good for the ape, given the other animal likely attacks large dinosaurs.

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DenistheTyrant In reply to Harry-the-Fox [2020-02-11 21:55:36 +0000 UTC]

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Harry-the-Fox In reply to DenistheTyrant [2020-02-13 12:21:14 +0000 UTC]

The apes probably didn't, at least within their environments (deep forests), if modern apes are anything to go by. Overall the Gigantopithecus was only about 50% larger than the largest gorillas.

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DenistheTyrant In reply to Harry-the-Fox [2020-02-13 22:56:22 +0000 UTC]

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Harry-the-Fox In reply to DenistheTyrant [2020-02-17 00:51:05 +0000 UTC]

Plus they have sharp teeth and claws. And let's not forget gorillas are terrified of leopards, which despite being half their size are very clearly capable of killing an adult (though this isn't so easy for leopards as they rely on stealth and gorillas live in groups and cleverly keep their eyes out for attacks).

But as leopards are solitary, while Utahraptors are relatively bigger compared to the ape than leopards, and hunt in packs.... it'll likely be a very different story.

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DenistheTyrant In reply to Harry-the-Fox [2020-02-03 16:20:45 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, Gigantopithecus blacki can’t karate chop a raptor. Looking at you Animal Face Off

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Ejizzle0430 [2019-08-09 04:54:00 +0000 UTC]

 Gorilla + Orangutan=Gigantopithecus.

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Harry-the-Fox In reply to Ejizzle0430 [2019-08-09 09:16:05 +0000 UTC]

Or an Orangutan that decided to live like a Gorilla (though if it's true they opted to eat bamboo, may well explain why they went extinct, hehe).

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SameerPrehistorica [2018-11-26 08:42:37 +0000 UTC]

Well done 

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Harry-the-Fox In reply to SameerPrehistorica [2018-11-26 22:52:27 +0000 UTC]

Thanks mate.

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SameerPrehistorica In reply to Harry-the-Fox [2018-11-27 03:53:43 +0000 UTC]

The one I made looked nearly the size of a gaur which made me quite uncomfortable. Even though a 500 kg G.blacki is not going to look that big next to a 1,000 kg+ bovid. I have to reduce the size of this ape.

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Harry-the-Fox In reply to SameerPrehistorica [2018-11-27 12:59:48 +0000 UTC]

I know of that one, it certainly looks great.

My recommendation is to try to make a skeletal out of orangutan and G. blacki jaws, scale it up and then make the 'body' of the G. blacki reconstruction fit around it.

These days I always use this trick for extinct animals.

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SameerPrehistorica In reply to Harry-the-Fox [2018-11-27 15:02:50 +0000 UTC]

Your G.Blacki is neat. Back then what i did was, i used the gorilla as reference and gave the coloration of Orangutan. Lol. So that is why the one i made looks more robust. I will change it when i have time.

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Harry-the-Fox In reply to SameerPrehistorica [2018-11-30 05:42:31 +0000 UTC]

Ah, that's why.

To be fair, it would be highly likely that these animals would have more similarities to Gorillas, considering both these animals and Gigantopithecus would have been ground-dwellers, while Orangutans are probably more specialized for tree-climbing than any other great ape.

I just played it safe and erred to Orangutan anatomy.... and believe me, I WOULD have started checking Gorilla limb proportions if the Orangutan's didn't work out to a plausible ground quadruped (but fortunately, with straighter legs it seems to work fine).

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tarbano [2018-09-24 18:57:32 +0000 UTC]

This great ape is first rate!

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Harry-the-Fox In reply to tarbano [2018-09-24 22:40:17 +0000 UTC]

Cheers!

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mark0731 [2018-05-09 22:05:22 +0000 UTC]

Ohh, shit... The 3 m, 540-600 kg estimates are outdated and inaccurate, the new estimates are 1.8-2 m and 180-300 kg. Also, this explains why the 3 m estimate is inaccurate: 3uwusw.dm2304.livefilestore.co… (this was made by ).

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dinoboi2001 In reply to mark0731 [2020-07-14 23:02:17 +0000 UTC]

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Harry-the-Fox In reply to mark0731 [2018-05-11 07:00:15 +0000 UTC]

(just found out)
Turns out this individual, while an exceptionally massive one (among a group of exceptionally massive individuals), is real.
Added the new reference.

👍: 1 ⏩: 0

Harry-the-Fox In reply to mark0731 [2018-05-10 13:45:30 +0000 UTC]

That was one of the references I actually used to make the reconstruction (just credited his work with an explanation, it's worth checking out).
That was one I was very careful to check before making this image, and I noticed the jaw fragment used in that specific chart was a lot smaller compared to the human jawbone than other comparative photos (the difference is actually quite vast when scaled up to the human mandible). Furthermore, it also didn't reach the same length in centimeters as the other (similarly-shaped) fragment did when I used the ruler tool on it.

That said, my other sources aren't.... great.
Mainly just photographs. Sadly even Google Scholar has occasionally dipped into the bigfoot/creationist literature, with most of the properly scientific articles focusing mainly on teeth.

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Majestic-Colossus [2018-05-09 01:39:37 +0000 UTC]

Very nice work, mate!

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Harry-the-Fox In reply to Majestic-Colossus [2018-05-09 10:35:44 +0000 UTC]

Cheers mate- this one went through a LOOOOOOONG gruelling process of refinement (probably started from scratch about 3 times), I'm glad at how it turned out now though.

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Airborneleaf [2018-05-09 00:35:03 +0000 UTC]

All I want to know is how much stronger than a Human, in this guessed form, would it have been?

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Harry-the-Fox In reply to Airborneleaf [2018-05-09 10:34:47 +0000 UTC]

Well that's an interesting question (one I plan to write up an article about).

The limbs would (size being equal) have the same strength in all great apes (including us), BUT, humans have disproportionately tiny upper bodies and arms for our size, meaning that  pound-for-pound of overall body mass, a chimpanzee would have arms roughly twice as strong as a human's (because it's arms are probably 1.5x-2x larger). Gigantopithecus however would probably be somewhere closer to an Orangutan (this is tricky, as a chimp and Orangutan of equal height would have arms roughly the same thickness, but the Orangutan has a wider, heavier body... likely contributing to stronger arms, but skewing the strength/weight ratio because they could be twice as heavy). We DO know however that a smallish orangutan is much, much stronger than a human.

For the sake of argument, we could assume it's double-strength too.
So, if we enlarge an 80kg human to 300kg, that's 275% larger, meaning its arms would (at least) be 550% stronger than ours.... but potentially more, maybe 5-6x stronger. This keeps proportion to a (VERY large) 200kg Gorilla being 4x stronger than a human. BUT, keep in mind, a brown bear (or even extremely huge lion or tiger) of similar weight might possibly have arms of similar thickness, so I probably wouldn't assume it would be any stronger than these animals.

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Majestic-Colossus In reply to Airborneleaf [2018-05-09 01:25:07 +0000 UTC]

Well, Orangutans are already VERY strong animals, and most of their strength is in their arms. Presumably, Giantopithecus would not be much different from that, so we can try to guess. I read that male Orangutans are, proportionally, around 6 times stronger than humans and can lift several times their own body weight. By brutal measurement, that's probably close to 5x stronger than an average man, varying accordingly to the size of the Orangutan. Based on that, we could say that Gigantopithecus, being over three times as large as male Orangutans, would likely be well over 10 (maybe even 20? idk, I always prefer to stay conservative, but seriously, look at the size of those arms!) times stronger than a human (average man).

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