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Kimanda — Why one Celt OC cannot work
Published: 2013-08-09 22:03:03 +0000 UTC; Views: 3887; Favourites: 61; Downloads: 24
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As someone who studied the Celts and their civilization at my university, it has been more than a source of frustration to see so many Celt OCs who are meant to represent all the Celts. For me that is practically impossible to represent into one character without ignoring and leaving out huge chunks of other Celtic groups who are in themselves distinctive enough to have their own representation. They shared a similar enough culture and related languages, which is why we collectively call them “the Celts” but don’t be fooled into thinking they were identical to each other. Even at the core, the Insular and Continental Celts had significant differences between each other. And about 90% of the Celt OCs I see often have only traits of the Celts of the British Isles, which means everyone concentrates on the Insular Celts but completely ignores those on the mainland. No matter how I’ve look at it, you cannot create one Celt OC. Logically it is not doable. Sorry, I am not out to ruin your fun if you do have a Celt OC, I simply want to encourage people to take a closer look at the different Celtic groups and see how fascinating each group is on their own. They’re really fun to read about and it just makes me sad to see how people just skim over them and crush them all into one OC.Now for some of the Celtic clothing, I got them from a reference book based on what was found but with others… I had to get a bit more creative since I wasn’t able to hunt down any good description on their appearances at the time. Well I just made use of what’s pretty close to being accurate for Galatia, Celtiberia and Belgica. Also short swords are normal, long swords didn’t appear until the Vikings appeared.
Hope you enjoyed the comic and that you found it interesting!
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Comments: 106
(I know you can do it! hopefully when you get those done then you'll be able to rest at least for a little while)
It is nice, cause when they evolve they seem to come out better than before, I also hope that I'll be able to add freckles onto my character again.
Thank you! I think it will be fun as well and I hope you can clear up some space soon, I think it would be cool if we did a Halloween theme art trade, since both of our OCs seem to love scaring the living hell out of people. I'm almost in the same spot as him, I'm still trying to get better at drawing guys and hopefully I'll be able to get use to it soon. I try to avoid them as well but I've noticed that they seem to be the more newer fans, one of these days they're going to noticed how dumb it was to act like that, not all countries are gay and last time I checked only two of those famous pairings are canon. It's not Romano's fault that he likes girls more than guys and how can you pair two countries together when they hate each other? Or the ones who argue all the time? Those aren't even healthy relationships!
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(thanks for the encouraging words! I would really say that I am too busy, I constantly have something to do. Boredom doesn't exist for me) Freckles are not easy to draw so to settle on a method you like is quite a challenge... but then the satisfaction of finally finding your style for drawing freckles is really great!
Worry not, even if it might take me a while I will make the time. Even if university is eating up all my free time and is demanding absolute committment from me, I always say, "If you don't give me free time, I will make free time for myself!" Of course... that costs me a few hours of sleep, which is not that intelligent but I need some free time as well though! Hmm, the Halloween theme could be fun but I kind of like mixing some traditional Samhain into it as the modern Halloween has done a lot of work at destroying the original meaning of the festival. Though I can perfectly see my Ireland enjoying scaring others, I think he would also be a bit more careful on Samhain as there are more Otherworldly creatures entering into this world and attracting their attention is not exactly recommended. I've actually just been weak at humans in general, so I am improving bit by bit and not really trying to avoid either men or women. Though I would say I have it easier with men but I try not to shy away from women. Yeah, most of the newer fans I bump into kind of rub me the wrong way, they take Hetalia at face value and shove their shallow OCs into the fandom without putting much thought into them. I've been really disappointed with the quality of OCs as of late, and I feel really odd seeing so many old fans leave and seeing unfamiliar faces around... makes me feel like a veteran but not in a good way. I do hope the rabid fangirls look back on their behaviour one day and feel some shame. Actually only one of the pairings are confirmed as canon, but the main point is that there is more to Hetalia than just pairings. I can be fond of certain pairings but I don't really see myself as a shipper, I just feel there is too much drama in that area.
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(You're welcome! I only become bored when I'm not listening to music and then I end up watching a documentary) It is, like when I finally found the hair style I wanted my OC to have.
I tend to lose a couple hours asleep when I end up finding a documentary on netflix, I tell myself that I can watch it later but then I just end up watching it then and there. Yes I agree, it went Samhain to All hallows Eve and then to the Halloween now, but people abuse the original tradition of Halloween and from what I heard they made it so it was more kid friendly. I have a headcanon that Arthur got his habits of scaring America during this time of the year from Ireland, I think that Ireland enjoys scaring everyone but is also very superstitious when it comes to creatures from another world, especially when it comes down to the Banshee and the Dullahan. I more good at still life than humans, but I want to learn how to draw humans better and I'm starting to slowly make some progress, the few things that I hate drawing is the feet, the hands, and the facial expressions which also includes the eyes.
I didn't start watching hetalia for the face values, I heard it was about history so I gave it a shot and it ended up having to be one of my favorite animes, it has humor and history to it but when I found out what the plans for Ireland...I was very disappointed, and I think that the newer fans started to base their Irelands off of the description Himaruya described. I actually came across a blog when I was doing research and became very annoyed by most of these hetalia OCs that were paired up with random countries even tho those countries have no history together. I thought there were two..I guess I was wrong, I'm not that big on shipping unless there is something about the pair, but I never really pay attention to that while watching Hetalia, I only one pairing and that's Sweden and Finland.
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(*collapses from exhaustion* bah uni is being an arse again...)
I tried researching a bit into that transition from Samhain to All Hallows Eve, a lot of people seem to argue that the transition wasn't so smooth and seemed to exist independant of Samhain at the beginning. Ah well, with more research I will gain a better understanding and at least today it is certain that Halloween picked up a lot of things from Samhain. The trick-or-treating does seem to originate from Ireland but seems to have developed rather late and wasn't very widespread, it was just imported by some Irish immigrants into America. A lot of the costumes I see nowadays are just extremely silly and undignified. *tsk tsk* It's not that Halloween is now kid-friendly, Samhain does seem to have been a festival for everyone but modern Halloween is very much sunken into consumerism, something Samhain didn't have. I'm not so much on board about Ireland using Samhain as a chance to frighten the others of the family, the original festival wasn't really meant to be frightening. Samhain was that time of seeing the supernatural, talking to spirits and trying your best not to get lured into the Otherworld. I don't know when the concept of scaring others came but it is possibly a late arrival to the nature of Samhain, probably in the last few centuries.
I was first made aware of Hetalia on here because of some comics making puns out of the yaoi-obsessed fandom but I went to check Hetalia out because the theme of personified countries interested me a lot. Probably helped that I had my own two series of personified countries before that, so I understood Hetalia pretty quickly. And despite all the satire and light-heartness, I just kind of became more interested with the darker aspects of Hetalia. Hmm, what description of Ireland? The only ones I am aware of is that back in 2007 Himaruya talked about making Ireland a crybaby girl and a few years later, added that Ireland would have thick eyebrows with a different feel to them. Other than that I am not aware of another description of Ireland. Hmm, what blog did you find? The one with a lot of bad Hetalia OCs or the one specifically for British Isles OCs? I'm not a huge shipper myself anymore, there are a few pairings that I am fond of, most ranging from platonic to adorable but I honestly don't care if they're not canon or canon. Why should it matter?
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I'm sorry for not being able to reply for so long! I was having one of those inspiration blocks for a while, I also ended up having to get a new program that had different tools that I wasn't use to, then I lost my internet for a few weeks and recently got it back.
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It's okay, I've been really busy myself lately. Ah I hate it when you're hit by an inspiration block, it takes so long to get out of it sometimes. And hope you get used to your new program, it isn't fun getting used to another program with different tools. Glad to see you're back though!
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Yeah, it's going to be slow this month with it being Christmas and everyone's running around. So much to do with so little timing!
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(( After learning about all the diverse Celtic groups, just like they are many Germanic, Turkic and Slavic tribes, I figured that it would be a tad of a stretch to make it into just one character all on its own. At least Germania was recorded into documents as ONE entity that was broken up into different tribes, but the Celts tended to be more separate. ))
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There is even the issue between distinguishing the two Roman provinces (Germania Inferior and Germania Superior) and the "free" Germania, the one beyond Rome's control. (which has caused me to question which Germania does Hetalia Germania represent) But it is true that the Romans tended to not distinguish between the specific Germanic tribes often. However the Celts were rarely treated as one. We have to begin with the Gauls, Celltiberians and Galatians who are recognized as being different and the Irish and the Britons weren't even considered Celts. There might be a political reasoning for not extending the Celtic label to the British Isles but what is certain is that at no point were the Celts seen as one... the area they occupied is simply too large.
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i agree with you on that (funny i was looking up my ancestry and found all of the celtic tribes in it XD this also helped me on that i now know where each tribe was thanks!) everyone groups the celts together and uses a not very strong stereotype at all i have tried to make celtic ocs but so far all i have is caledonia (i only made him a red head due to the fact most historical figures near there i have heard of were red heads...) well thanks again you really are good at fining valuable info where do you find all this btw?
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Thank you, I'm glad you agree! 
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wow XD the way you described the caledonians sounds like my oc XD oh and thanks for the book references i am going to college this year and have a western world history class so i hope they tell us about the celts (i can't stand listening about rome anymore @_@) thanks again and ill look for those books at a book store (or on my kindle)
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Sadly there isn't that much information on them but they at least had a distinctive appearance! XD You're welcome, but I woulld be careful with Western world history, I suspect you will have to get through Romans and Ancient Greeks. I hope there will be something with the Celts but I wouldn't be surprised if they just got a little mention as "Romans conquered the Celts, end of story". It is shockingly difficult to find good books on the Celts outside of the Celtic nations. O_o Oh, for the encyclopedia, look on Kindle! The book is over 2,000 pages long, I don't think that book will be easy to carry. 
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lol 2000 pages! wow sounds like the welsh myth and legend book (all four in one) in a nutshell and oh well a few more years learning about rome *le sigh*
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After not being on dA for a few days, I liked going to my inbox to find this 8D it was really great! And now I kinda want to draw one of your OCs >)3(<
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I'm glad you enjoyed it so much!
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I could see that one Celtic 'nation' is not possible. But Hetalia made the same mistake with alot of others too. Germania is an official example. There was no such thing. 'Germany' became a country very very late. They were regions and smaller states before that...individual tribes in Germania times. And even today we have split groups. Saxony and Bavaria are still very different from the rest of Germany.
The only solution to that would be characters (in case of celt) for the individual tribes and only maybe one for larger regions (like Gallic Celts, British Celts). In Hetalia it seems to be possible that regions and cities can have characters of their own which are topped by a nation... I wonder if this also works differently, that nations would be topped by a continent-tan; and the continents then by a 'mother earth'? What do you think?
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Himaruya did make that mistake with Germania however he doesn't specify which Germania he is exactly. Most assume he must represent Greater Germania but he could represent Lower Germania or to be more exact, Inferior Germania... there is even one note that Himaruya wrote about Germania working as Rome's bodyguard but then he rebelled against Rome. One idea I got is that Germania started out as Batavia and was then promoted to the province of Inferior Germania (one of the two Roman provinces of Lesser Germania) The idea for that came from the fact that the Batavians (the Batavii) were hired as bodyguards by one Roman Emperor and while they were well-known for being good bodyguards, they eventually rebelled against the Romans. (well it is only a headcanon I have and so far I might be the only one who supports it)
For me, the solution I have is acknowledging that the individual Celtic tribes exist. (though for most we don't know enough to create a good personification of them) Which is why I try to create personifications for the Celtic groups such as the Gauls, Celtiberians, Galatians, Britons, etc. Which I managed to do but even with the Gauls, I have created 3, if not 4, personifications for the regional differences among the Gauls. Hmm, I believe that we can personify nations, regions and even cities and their relationship works like a pyramid with the nations on top. However I draw a line beyond nations. Personally I don't feel continents can be personified... the only way I can see them is as pure energy that is beneath the earth and lies within the nations belonging to said continent, but I doubt the continents themselves can be successfully personified into human-like bodies. It just seems too complicated to create something that is meant to personify the conflicting cultures and the violent histories of the countries all in one body. Mother Earth is also beyond me as a personified human-like avatar, I think I just see a source of energy (or life force as I call it) living at the core of the earth and is making it possible for nations to be born. But I can't imagine an actual mother.
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I couldn't agree more on the point of Germania :3
I made ancient nations oc's and compared them a little to modern nations. Back in the days they rather represented ethnic groups instead of a cluster of those groups squeezed into a specific terrain. ...as for France I know that there are also other language than French (bretonic gaelic for example) but they were prohibiting all other directions than the French direction. It's kinda weird...
I know a person that made planets as personifications. The idea is quite interesting but I cannot imagine to make much story with them.. since all that happens out there is meteors that travel around really. I drew a few planets.. but also just for fun. It turned out that 'earth' got defined by how different the others were. Isn't it always that one is defined by how different others are?
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Glad you agree! ^^
I agree with the ancient nations representing ethnic groups, it was a lot more fluid back then and we didn't have that many political boundaries, so we can't depend on those back then. Oh oh, Breton isn't Gaelic! Breton is Brythonic(Brittonic), related to Welsh and Cornish. The Gaelic languages are Irish, Manx and Scots-Gaelic. France is a bit difficult but imagine France pulling in two other avatars, Brittany with her Breton language and Occitania with his Occitan language. So I feel France would be living with these two who are not exactly big fans of him.
Oh I know who you are talking about possibly. The idea is intriguing but I don't think you can do much with them story-wise, even then I don't see why they should look like humans when no one lives on them. Ah well, the person is having fun with them so I won't complain too much. But yeah, Earth is the one the most different from the others, we have yet to find another planet that has life... though the prospect of discovering a planet that has life like ours really excites me too.
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With France I could clearly see that there are more subordinates with him. One has been introduced officially (Picardy). When the 100 years' war ended, alot duchys integrated into France (I think it was at least Bourgogne and Bretagne), they were independent before that. Same with Aquitaine (who was with England before) and Occitania (who are proud of their own language). Normandy could also be something like that.
Boundaries like what we have today makes it also hard at some points to create OC's... the African ones are a pretty good example on this.
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I can see France becoming quite complicated with all the subordinates he might have, I have no idea how many duchys there were back then but I feel there was a lot. I think it would be interesting if someone tried looking into the duchys, how their relations are with France. Aquitaine interests me quite a bit and I've already created a Normandy OC. I even drew a comic on Normandy's invasion on Britain from a Celtic perspective, I still need to get the comic coloured.
Ah yes, that can be quite complicated too.
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I'd say... this is why France acts like a preg woman all the time xD
(just kidding, I'd never want to offend anyone)
Oh? Yea, Normandy had been one of the duchies also.. I think. And I guess that Normandy had also always been a subject for conflict between England and France. Also Jersey and Guernsey. It's kind of weird that they are British when they are so close to the French coast.
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AWESOME Germania (and every other nation) would be proud of you!
simply amazing information!
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Thank you! 
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welcome, I really appreciate it when someone does a lot of research for an OC
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I CAN'T EVEN BEGIN TO DESCRIBE HOW AMAZING YOU ARE AND HOW AMAZING THIS THING IS IT'S JUST SUCH AN OBVIOUS LABOUR OF LOVE AND IRRITATION (the best combination for research) AND SO I AM SHOUTING IN CAPS TO SHOW MY INTENSE APPRECIATION FOR YOU.
-holds all these fantastic celt ocs and you tightly-
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AAAAAHHH THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR APPROVING OF MY COMIC, IT REALLY MEANS A TON TO ME SINCE THIS COMIC TOOK SO DAMN LONG AND WASN'T EASY TO MAKE BUT AT THE SAME TIME I AM HAPPY THAT SO MANY PEOPLE SEEM TO LIKE IT AND ARE FINDING IT USEFUL!! QAQ
- sdasdfsdfsasdg c'mere you
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Thank you!!
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((Thanks for making this! It certainly clarifies many points about Celtic culture, which Celtic OC creators should definitely reference. 
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You're very welcome, it makes me happy that you think of the comic as informative and a good guide for Celtic OC creators!
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Nice work! You know your stuff!
If there was one ancestor, in order to be somewhat accurate, it'd have to be pretty generic, which is boring.
If it comes time I need to make Celtic OCs, I'll definitely use this as a guide.
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Thank you so much!
That's quite true, and it is really a shame when people take this shortcut because you lose so much variety and interesting things that you could include if you had more characters.
Wow, it really makes me happy that you think of my comic as a helpful guide, it seriously makes all the work that went into this comic worth it!
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No problem.
I can understand stuff like Roman Empire and Germania because even though both of those were widely spread, their personifications were based off of a specific group (Roman Empire representing the Romans, and Germania representing the Aryans, of course), but the Celts were very diverse people; it would be like making one Native America OC.
I liked it because it was informational, but it was also enjoyable to read; it wasn't just a bunch of boring facts, you made it fun ^-^
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I think the Roman Empire works but personally I believe Germania might have started out as Batavia, representing the Batavians since we actually have three Germanias to choose from: One representing the tons of Germanic tribes that the Romans never managed to conquer and the two Roman provinces named Superior Germania and Inferior Germania. Going by the fact that Himaruya stated that Germania was Rome's bodyguard for a while before rebelling, I discovered that one Roman Emperor had a lot of Batavian bodyguards as they were good at this job but they eventually rebelled. But I believe before that Rome had promoted Batavia to Inferior Germania, hence where he got his name.
I mean Rome works since he represents one people, the Romans. However Germania is meant meant to represent tons of Germanic tribes who didn't see each other as one people. I feel it would be better if he represented one Germanic tribe and was promoted to a Roman province, though he ultimately rebelled against Rome. But like you said, it's like creating a Native America OC. You can't squash tons of different tribes into one character and not expect a lot of diversity loss.
Thank you! It's what a lot of people always try, getting interesting information across in a way that it is still enjoyable to follow and read.
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Ooh, good point; I didn't think about that.
That'd make sense too, because Himaruya made a bunch of personifications of German provinces; I don't see why tribes couldn't have worked too.
Maybe Germania was just the dominant tribe, or the one that outlasted the others, but when they're so diverse, you can't really skimp; other tribes would have made sense.
Generally the wider spread the country, the more diverse it is, which causes problems to arise, and not just for the fans making their OCs; the actual country suffers from it too. That's one of the reasons Rome collapsed; as Italy said, it just got too big to manage anymore. Heck, it's the reason for many of the scuffles in the middle east after WWI.
I'd also think that many of the areas under Germanic control or protection (Such as Livonia, for example) would be their own personification, as many places became their own nations in time (I think it'd be similar to how America had a personification before it got it's independence; he wasn't born after the US became a country.)
I find it curious that the Poles actually share as much (if not more) blood with Ancient Germanics than the Germans do (talk about a slip-up, Hitler); it makes you think, because Poland is usually considered a Slavic country.
You really know your stuff; I'm more of an eastern Europe person myself, but dang, you're smart!
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That's one reason why I tried seeing how this would work, as having Germania just represent all Germanic tribes, it just seems too complicated. Each of those Germanic tribes would have been unique from each other, just like the modern German provinces. Of course I try to concentrate on similar cultures, such as the Britons, the Gauls, etc. because trying to personify all tribes isn't possible either, most of them we only know the names and nothing else. So it is necessary to look at similar culture and language and try to follow a pattern that would justify a personification.
That's a possible theory too, I haven't studied the Germanic tribes in detail so I don't know how long the Batavians lasted. When I come back to them one day, I might figure it out.
There are a lot of problems with complicated countries, some can give you quite a headache. X( I mean I spent a good half of the day today trying to understand how London works, that city is a lot more complicated than you might first expect! Rome became internally too unstable and fragile, he collapsed from the inside. Poor guy, that can't have been a painless fall.
Oh certainly, I'd imagine places like Livonia would have their own personification!
I think it is very possible that the Polish share similar blood to the ancient Germanics, genetics tend to tell us an interesting story and people didn't move all that much back then. Cultures flowed more easily than genetics if you ask me. So Poland might have adopted a Slavic culture, but that doesn't mean the genetics were wiped out or shoved away. Very often, our genes tell a very different story than our history.
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That's pretty cool about Hetalia, though; Himaruya might not be able to cover all about the Celts, Gauls, Huns, and such, so the fans can take it and make their own stories about it.
I was wondering, what do you usually do considering the gender of personifications? Do you find it an important detail to the character, or does it not really matter too much? I know Himaruya only made so many male countries because he didn't know how to draw girls at the start of hetalia and several country names in Japanese sound masculine, but there's tons of speculation about male to female ratio of countries.
Wow! And London isn't even a country but it's so complex!
I totally agree with the idea that nations exist because of the feeling of belonging. Not to get too deep into fan theory, but I think that's how Prussia is still alive; I know a few people who have Prussian heritage, and they are very proud of it and can tell you anything you ever wanted to know about its history.
That's a neat theory about the genetics vs. culture; I like that idea.
No problem! ^-^ 
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Hetalia is so big and diverse, it is actually helpful that people tackle one or two areas they're really good in and do the research in those areas and convert it to Hetalia format. (such as my areas are the ancient Celts and the British Isles, mostly concentrating on the Celtic natons) I have friends who tackle other areas, such as one really concentrates on Ancient Greece, another concentrates on Rome, another concentrates on South America... we have within the fandom many people who specialize in one area and it is really helpful!
Well I actually had my own personifications of countries series before I found Hetalia so I had developed a way to decide on gender of personifications, though it is a bit silly.
I think that is the most likely reason why Prussia is still around, that there are people out there who still feel Prussian but many of them are elderly and are dying... so Prussia might not stick around for much longer. But I have heard of a few younger people of Prussian descent who proudly identify as Prussian so as long as some people feel Prussian, Prussia will survive. It is only when the last person feeling Prussian dies that Prussia will perish.
The theory does seem to hold up for a few of the countries of Europe, I will not venture further than that as I don't know how it is for the other places. ^^
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That is so true; then we can look at each others' stuff and learn from that too!
That actually sounds like a great process for determining gender. If I ever make more OCs, I'll definitely try it out; it wouldn't hurt to see how both genders work.
I completely agree with that; it's like when Poland was partitioned, the Polish people would not let that destroy them. They would gather together and refuse to be called anything but Polish. They lasted long enough for Poland to be reorganized and brought back, but for quite some time, there were Polish people without an actual Poland. I think that's how countries survive; their people are their lifeline.
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I think that's what has made me stay in Hetalia for so long - the learning potential is really amazing, you learn so much about history and geography!
Well it was for the longest time my way of deciding, of course changes could come later but it's always nice when you have a good starting point, no? Hope it works out for you as it did for me!
Yeah, I was friends with a Polish girl so she told me a lot about her country's history and it is sad that Poland disappeared off the map for a long time. 
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Definitely; Hetalia's the fandom I've been most passionate about for so long, I think.
I can understand why most Irish hate the English; being so battered by the Anglo-Saxons must have taken a number on Celts.
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Actually not that many Irish hate the English. Those that do belong to a vocal and extreme minority. The rest of the Irish are okay with the English, as long as none of the English try bragging about their superiority, we don't get too annoyed by them. Of course the Irish and Scottish will often team up, almost on instinct, but today there is mostly just a rough but friendly rivalry towards the English. There isn't actually such a tense relationship anymore.
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Whoops! Please forgive my error; I guess the vocal minority are the best known to outsiders
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No worries. ^^ Unfortunately the minority make themselve more heard, but as long as you know they are the minority, then it's good.
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