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likwidoracle β A flag of the past?
Published: 2005-01-15 04:43:19 +0000 UTC; Views: 18118; Favourites: 183; Downloads: 1005
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So this was one of my first things i've ever submitted on this site and it to no surprise created a lot of criticism. most of my older stuff i have taken down but i wanted to leave this one up just because of how many views it received and comments also. I did remove the comment section just because of how political it got. I did enjoy the discussions it created and i understand if it can upset some people, i am definitely not trying to stir a rumble between people or put anyone down. I hope everyone enjoyed the discussions that went on with this piece and thank you for all the criticism (even the bad stuff). I have definitely grown into a full different style of artwork over the past eight years, but i'm glad i can keep this piece up to show how much my style has changed.Related content
Comments: 146
AMEN, congrads, they're still telling history the way it was meant to be
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the funny thing is that none of the people that bashed ur logic did any research. but i agree taxes along with the disagreement of state rights thats y they formed a confederation not a strong national goverment. btw nice touch with the quote
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Good work man. And good explanation two.
I live in France, and for a majority of people here, the confederate flag just represents people fighting for the right to keep slaves... As if things could be so simple...
I own a confederate flag myself, in a musical feeling orginally (I used to listen the Allman Brothers Band and Lynyrd Skynyrd a lot !). And it wasn't easy to explain to the people I had invited at home why I kept this. People overreacted a lot, as if they knew what this flag can represent... Most european people don't actually... I'm not saying I know it well, myself. What I know, from what I have read. And I have read that there's no way to consider southern guys as bad guys and northern guys as the big civilized saviers. South fought for several reasons, some of them were good. As the right not to depend on the North, as the right to create a new confederation of states if some of the southern states didn't want to stay within the Union, as the right to decide of its own future.
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When Federalists in New England were suspected of seceding during the War of 1812, which along with Jefferson's Embargo Acts, nearly destroyed them, the Southern Democratic-Republicans crucified them. "Independence" minded people also arrested the Representative of Winston County for refusing to sign Alabama's Ordinance of Secession.
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This is one of those issues that people like to blindly spout useless garbage about.
If someone wants to fly the confederate flag, if a state wants to, and its voted on, and the vote goes through, theres no reason anyone should stop them. That state wants it. That person wants it outside their house. It doesn't matter what reason they have for it, you can't control what they think and you have no right to tell them what to think or display on their personal property. If the voice of the people says they want a confederate monument outside the courthouse, then thats what the public wants.
This is one of those things that you can't really just have an opinion on, unless you think about it and think about people's rights and actually do some reading - coming to random conclusions based on your own biases won't work here.
Anyway, this is a very good wallpaper. If we don't know our own history, then we are doomed to repeat it. Revisionists and the such only hurt America - political correctness out of control. I'm glad there is at least one deviant-arter that knows what is going on, and doesn't just like to make communist or che wallpapers.
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Having these two different regions in the States is what makes this nation different. It's their flag, just like the quebecois people in Canada, they carry their flag wherever they go because they know where they come from, and they love their land.
I really see pointless to specify the reasons of this picture, It's just another flag that a lot of people feel proud of.
That reminds me to the "svastika", a symbols that means peace and love that was twisted by the nazis.
Have a nice day ladies and gentlemen...
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It's not [i]different regions[/i], it's many. Besides, when the South was in control they would use the Treasury and taxes to invade other countries to spread slavery.
And people didn't tend to use the Swastika as much until after the Nazis. And the '
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dude, the south invading other countries to spread slavery? really? the south had little to do with slavery in other countries. southerners are not to blame for slavery any where including the the south itself. blame the leaders in africa who actually allowed it to happen. they sold their own people into slavery. and to make sure they still profited they would search out new markets for slavery, thus, you end up with many different places with slavery.
and no duh the swastika didnt mean "peace and love" to the europeans. its a flippin buddhist symbol that meant like good luck or something along those lines. and that symbol had the swastika looking more like a square than a diamond. and again duh people didnt use the swastika much until after the nazis. it was a buddhist symbol, why would people use a symbol that is associated with a religion that they dont belong to? the nazis brought the swastika over with them
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pulling the sheets over your eyes, indeed.
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Please spare all of us educated people your justifications to hate black people. You people need to put down the sheets, and realize that it's not African-Americans, or Hispanics that are whats wrong with the country, it's the ruling class and all of the ignorant followers (i.e. YOU) that believe all of thier propaganda. Its the poor versus the rich, not race versus race.
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"poor versus the rich" that just makes me laugh.. i know were being split because of money in the country and if you ask me it sucks... i agree with you amazingly... but race vs. race is still there.. i am not racist at all... i hate some white people and i hate some black people... i have white friends and i have black friends... but to say that there is no race vs. race going on your nuts.. look at affirmitive action.. what do we need that for any more that just pisses people off any more... the kkk is still around and so are alot of white/black supremecy groups that need to be shut down... there are many problems in this country that need to be fixed.. but if you only look one bad thing then you my friend are the one pulling the sheets over your eyes... people need to open there eyes to every problem and every good thing in this world and not look at the politics going on in the white house... look at the politics going on in the street, on the farms, in our homes...
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Oh and as a brief question, what tax are you referring to when you claim the civil war was caused by taxes?
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You sir, are an idiot. (Hey look, commas and periods.)
I suppose one of the simplest demonstrations of the fact that the southern states seceded and then attacked the United States because of a fear of the abolition of slavery would be the words of Alexander Stephens, the vice-president of the "confederacy" in his "Cornerstone Speech" in which he says that slavery is the cause the the rebellion.
"The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution β African slavery as it exists amongst us β the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the "rock upon which the old Union would split." He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted."
"They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. ... Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its cornerβstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery β subordination to the superior race β is his natural and normal condition."
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i have a black friend and one day I wore a heart-shaped necklace with a confederated flag in it, and she got mad. I simply said "heritage not hate" and walked away.
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No, they seceded because Lincoln was elected. Most of the former Presidents were Democrats, Southern most often. Do you think that is false? If so, do tell.
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true they seceded right when the 1860 election ended, but the tension and thought of secesion had started well before that, and that election was really just "the straw the broke the camel's back" i guess you could put it. they didn't just secede because of lincoln it was because the way the goverment was and had been heading and lincoln supported alot of the stuff they didn't want... when the election was over you could almost say alot of southerners felt shafted because they didn't have the same population as the north and they felt they didn't have a fair vote in the election. so in some aspects ya what you saying is true but there is alot more behind it i would say.....
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Being from the South, I'm kinda partial to this WP to begin with, but the fact that you know your history helps out more. Nice work man.
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your right "exactly" same amount of slaves no.... but many yes.... where the southern people in 1861 more racist then the north.. definetly not... you may say well the north created the first black regiment, the 64th i believe.... well look at [link] and tell me the south didn't have blacks fighting for their cause... the 64th was treated like shit anyways they were a regiment put together to ransack buildings after battles have been fought. they were spit on, made fun off, and were given shit duties.. and the first battle they went into was a suicide mission what i nice way to treat these soldiers.. and that was the union.. the south took care of their slaves, when a slave was taken in he/she was considered one of the family if they had no name they were given the last name of the family, they were treated with respect. granted their were some southerners that beat there slaves and treated them harshly, and you know this because you read it in history books but that was scarce and inbetween... saying the south is racist because of that is like everyone in this country is a spouse abuser because that happens here and there.. there were laws then protecting the slaves from abuse and such.... and maybe you'll say well just haveing slaves is racist.. at the time owning slaves was a normal thing like owning a computer now.... lincoln's father owned slaves, most generals in the north owned slaves and wanted to keep there slaves.... it was a normal thing.. the south in fact got there slaves from the north.. not one ship from the south went to get slaves everyone was from the north mainly from new york... and the white people were not the ones "taking blacks from their homeland" black leaders in africa were giving them... many blacks had slaves in africa also, so no america was not the only one to have slaves... also in the south there were black plantation owners that had black slaves.. Oh my god! are you going to call a black man a racist against black people because he had slaves um... no.... today people fly the confederate flag for different meanings.. in this picture i am not trying to say that no one is racist that flies the flag.. i am trying to bring the truth back to the flag... the kkk is a bunch of ignorant assholes... but i guess since they fly the confederate flag that means the flag is racist... it must.. well they fly the stars and stripes high also but you NEVER see that in the news.. want to know why? because the goverment, and nation doesn't want to know that a racist group flies our countries flag.. but now that you know that you won't say the stars and stripe's is a racist flag will you.. no of course not because you live in this country that has ups and downs some people are racist some aren't the stars and stripes stand for freedom, ect. well back in 1861 the confederate flag flew for freedom also, freedom from goverment, from union assholes, life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness.... that was it... the south didn't care if they had slaves or not they wanted to quit being treated like dirt, and being taxed out the ass. blacks and whites fought and died for the confederate flag, and i don't think it should go forgotten, or remembered in the wrong way... did you ever here in a social study class that there were black confederates, did you here that lincoln's first "emanicpation proclomation" stated that slaves were allowed to be owned but not kept for a lifetime, then later revised for propaganda reasons.. i highly doubt and if you did i would like to meet that teacher and tell them thanks... its time we as a country learn the truth about our countries wars and then base opinions on it... i don't care if you hate the south, i don't care if you hate the north... but if you hate the south because their a bunch of racist hicks, you need a history lesson. soon... if you don't believe anything i have written go do some research there's a book written called "the south was right" it has a lot of good information, so does [link] ... just do a google search on the truth of the civil war, or why the civil war was fought....... and compare that information to school history books then you'll find out the true reason for this picture....
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they were more racist. it says they stared the war to keep slavery. then they tried to break away from the USA which was a legal and the south didn't care so that's how the CW begin. but no ones going to forget about it either case its the only CW in america.
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What do you use as a source for this, besides the one website I mean? I've studied the Civil War a great deal, though only in an amateur way. The South did use black troops but only at the end of the war when the white male population was completely exhausted. It was more of a position that the South was forced into than any principled stand. As for the good treatment of slaves, I've heard that debunked from several sources of reputable stature. This is not to say that these were death camps but slaves were far from happy with their position as you make it sound. It's the same thing with black slave owners; it happened certainly but it was an exception more than a rule. There might have been rules against abuse but the enforcement was generally a joke. I consider all flags fundementally racist in general, separating and dividing people across arbitrary borders. By the way, in many documentaries I have seen the Stars and Stripes flying in WP camps and other things --not that hard to find. Hell, look at American History X, it's in their too, a major Hollywood movie. As for the South being united in throwing off the North, you should do some more research into that. Several counties sent troops to the North from the South in an effort to preserve the Union.
Personally, I find this offensive because my relatives fought to keep the Union. They were non-racist, workingmen and thus I find your attempt to pin as many sins on the North as are carried on the South's head disgusting. Try to revise history however you want, but that flag will forever be identified with racism.
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I agree that in some respects the South did have "honor" or whatever one wants to call it. There is no denying that Lee or Longstreet felt that they were doing the right thing. However, I'm sure that out of the entire Civil War, a better symbol can be found to represent States' Rights if you want to do that. Pick the Texas Lone Star or some other such thing. Like it or not, because of the actions of groups like the KKK and other WP organizations along with some southerners, the Stars and Bars will forever be associated with racism. Like a national socialist still trying to use the swastika, it's not going to work in the minds of most.
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im not trying to put down the north im just tryin to say the south should have a little more credit from people today then what they do.... they were still working men, some racist some not.. i have relatives that fought on both sides... my moms side stayed north, while my dads was below the mason dixie line... many northerners were just as racist as the south.... im just saying put it perspective to the time... and remember the people that died for what they thought was a great purpose whether you agree with it or not... they fought for their values, and i don't care who you are you should at least pay some respect to those people... and yes i've read over 50 books on just the civil war, everything from diaries of generals, letters and notes written by soldiers, to gods and generals, and gettysburgh... i've done more then most people in researching this war and many others... and im very happy to see someone that has also studied up on it and i think if you have researched you should understand that the southerners deserve some respect, its not like they were horrible men that should be sentenced to hell.... they had some of the smartest men in history as their generals... such as; davis, jackson, E. lee, johnston, longstreet. maby they fought for the wrong reason, but back then they believed that it was right.. and some gave there all just for it.. at least show the flag in sign of respect rather then trying to get rid of it.. thats all im saying
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nice work on research your and my opinion is one of the same. Its our heritage not hate, thouse who use it for hate only exploite it because of the time frame the flag was flown in. They have absolutely no idea how to cope with not being able to point blame, so they blame the flag unjustly. Due to lack of study or just plain stupidity. Not the real evil leaders behind the flag in modern day kkk among other wp organizations were the flag is used as a symbol of hate!
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everything i read from you im like "hell yea! Amen!"
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ha, thanks man, its always good to hear feedback... thanks again man
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>w< I loved this pic. I just had to put it as my wallpaper for my computer!!!!
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im not trying to put down the north im just tryin to say the south should have a little more credit from people today then what they do.... they were still working men, some racist some not.. i have relatives that fought on both sides... my moms side stayed north, while my dads was below the mason dixie line... many northerners were just as racist as the south.... im just saying put it perspective to the time... and remember the people that died for what they thought was a great purpose whether you agree with it or not... they fought for their values, and i don't care who you are you should at least pay some respect to those people... and yes i've read over 50 books on just the civil war, everything from diaries of generals, letters and notes written by soldiers, to gods and generals, and gettysburgh... i've done more then most people in researching this war and many others... and im very happy to see someone that has also studied up on it and i think if you have researched you should understand that the southerners deserve some respect, its not like they were horrible men that should be sentenced to hell.... they had some of the smartest men in history as their generals... such as; davis, jackson, E. lee, johnston, longstreet. maby they fought for the wrong reason, but back then they believed that it was right.. and some gave there all just for it.. at least show the flag in sign of respect rather then trying to get rid of it.. thats all im saying
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What a load... Just as many slaves in the north as in the south? I guess there were also 4 million slaves working on cotton and sugar cane plantations in the North, huh? Man... this is why history repeats itself... ignorant people revising history to suit their own agendas. To be sure, the north had many slaves on their plantations and manors throughout the original colonies... however, to say they had the same amount is insane.
Southern Pride is nothing but racists. I LIVE in the South, I KNOW. Everyone that carries around that flag or puts it all over their car is in actuality saying "I liked it better when we didn't have black people roaming around."
Put your SPIN or BS on it any way you choose. We know the truth, and you and your Aryan Nations buddies can just kick and cry all you want.
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"Southern Pride" means fighting for what you belive in. It means acting in a gentlemenly way, and keeping our heritige. It's about rebeling when the popular sopherenty is acting fucking stupid. Kinda like the Senate and House right about now.
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When I see the confederate flag, I think of people fighting for the right to keep slaves. It was a sad part of our nations history. We should have let them secede, because I think they have gotten thier revenge. FUCK THE SOUTH!
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you need a history lesson
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wow, nice one. i'll go let her know.
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not only is fighting for slaves false, so is being a "sad" part of our nations history..... at the time slaves were allowed the north and the south agreed on that part... the north wanted the south to pay more taxes on imports for farming... the south felt that it was taxation without representation.... it is stated in the constitution that states are allowed to secede from the union on that fact.... so south carolina did... lincoln if gave a preposition to the south that they could keep slaves if they would quit fighting and pay taxes.... and guess what the south didn't care.... 90% of the north leaders owned slaves..... look up the real history and learn sum stuff before you critize and huge part in our nations history... the civil war made this nation one of the strongest in history....
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I've never heard anything so true, the North was corrupt and unjust. And even after the south was forced to give up slavery, equality was never enforced in the north and the Northern States kept slaves for years after the war's end. I'm black, and I realize that this flag wasn't a sign of white power, just a symbol representing liberty and desire to live the way that you choose
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Much respect to you sir. A man who did NOT just read the books he was told to, but actually researched the subject. Truth is hard sometimes....
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Especially hidden in a woven cloths of lies.
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