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Paulwise —
The Proposal
Published: 2009-12-14 20:21:09 +0000 UTC; Views: 893533; Favourites: 563; Downloads: 116
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Description
This is the comic I used to propose to Tara ( ) over the weekend. You can see her answer and more by going here: [link]Related content
Comments: 170
This was a proposal? Did she say no?
I'm sorry, but how did this piece get a DD? There's no artistic merit whatsoever.
Am I missing something? Please tell me I'm missing something. I thought this was a place for great art, but all I see everywhere is soft porn and badly drawn pictures - which go on to receive DDs.
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Dude, cut it out. You suck.
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Whoooooa, bit late there, aren't we? This discussion died a long time ago. Shush.
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Sure, sure, whatever.
I just found it, so why don't you just be quiet. Psh.
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You're complaining about Daily Deviations in the wrong piece. This artist has no power over who or what receives a DD so your comment is redundant and offensive.
It seems as though you've completely missed the point of the comic, and if you'd bothered to read the description and click the link, you'd have seen that she didn't say no (In all honesty why on earth would you assume this?) Some of the greatest art in the world isn't all about the visuals; the best art is something that can effect you emotionally, something you remember for a long time or has a powerful or well told message.
If you're too narrow minded to think nothing other than pretty pictures are real art, or whatever your concept of good is then you're missing out on a lot of amazing things.
Also, if you look through the artist's gallery you'll see that this style is very much his own and, since this was such a personal, important piece to him then it makes it all the more special that he kept to this as opposed to replicating other styles, not that there's anything wrong with the artwork in the first place.
If all you're seeing on here is soft porn and badly drawn pictures you clearly aren't looking around very much.
FAQ #873: What do I do when I disapprove of a Daily Deviation feature?
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It seems you have completely missed the point of my joke.
I have done my research on this guy before I said what I said (wrote what I wrote). I know the meaning of this comic, I clicked the link, I looked through his gallery, I read the description. I'm not a moron. I stand by what I have said.
I know this guy has no power over his piece becoming a Daily Deviation. My comment is not redundant, it is my opinion. Not everyone is going to be nice - he has put this piece on the internet, on a public website, and people are entitled to their opinions.
I've spent quite a number of years around artists, and have had many a conversation about the subject. I know what I'm talking about. Despite what my profile may convey.
I'm not saying only pretty pictures can be/are real art. I know what is good art, and I'm not missing out on anything.
My remark about the artist's style is true, though. It has existed longer than he has been creating work. I say that with confidence without knowing too much about him. It's painfully obvious where has got his influence from. I'm not saying that's a bad thing - many artists copy people they admire etc., I was simply pointing out an observation.
Oh come on, you must notice the sheer amount of 'artistic' photographs that get uploaded, and how they all seem to be of tits and other lady parts?
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Ok, I'm going to start off saying that I don't like having confrontations on people's work so this is the last comment I'm going to write here regarding this matter. If you still wish to continue discussing it send me a note.
For future reference could you please voice your opinions about Daily Deviations in the correct place (Which would be messaging the person who awarded the piece). You're completely entitled to your opinion, but putting it here doesn't help anyone. However, if you want to critique a piece of artwork, feel free but please do so constructively.
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Okay excuse me but I think you're either blind or you just don't understand what's art. I mean you're just like "ew this isn't shaded this is just a simple cartoon so let's not care about it". Daily Deviations aren't just about realistic paintings, like a carbon copy of a picture of X actor. Art isn't just about technique. It's also about the message in it. Some art can be real masterpieces while being "poor art" without any kind of shading or being extremely detailed only by the message it contains. Here, you have a guy telling a girl how their romance started and how important it was for him, telling her that she means so much to her that he had to create something just for her, to express his feelings to her, and "just because it's not high quality art", you're telling him that his art isn't worth anything? Because if he did a realistic painting or surreal or whatever kind of "high quality art style", his message would suddenly be better?
And look, if artists with "high quality art" don't get DDs, it's probably because people like you aren't suggesting them to the moderators. Mods don't see every single piece of art on dA. No mod ever saw my gallery, and I don't think they will. But if someone suggests one of my deviations to one of them, then they will check and maybe when I'll have something either good enough of meaningful enough, I'll get a DD. Unless they stop by my gallery by accident. If you find something that you think it's worth of a DD, then show it to others. That's how "poor artists" got popular on dA.
Also, even if you didn't say that it wasn't worth of a DD, I think what you said to the artist was really stupid. Just the first line : "This was a proposal?" It's like "hey your art sucks so much that it's not even a proposal, your girl will probably ignore the message and stop to the quality of your art, judge you and reject you because you're not high stuff enough."
I hope you never get kids because you will break their heart, and that you will only meet "awesome" artists, because if you only stop to the "quality" of the art, you will reject them all. If people send you a card with little drawings that they did and put some efforts, up to their talents and artistic levels, saying "I like you!", you will be "Your art sucks. I don't like you." and well they will just not bother with you anymore.
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Thanks for the essay, I'll address this paragraph by paragraph, k? Get comfy.
Both my eyes are in perfect working order, other than I have to wear glasses to drive, but hey. The fact it isn't shaded doesn't come into it, nor does copying a picture of some actor... I never said anything about copying/tracing, so that doesn't really come in to this argument you have instigated.
Saying art isn't about technique is very much a matter of opinion. Yes, it is also about meaning, correct. But, the technique/skill in this piece, while it may suit some, I don't feel deserves a DD. There. It's just my opinion...why are you so against me voicing it?
I'm not saying the meaning was poor, I was simply making an observation about the artistic/technical skill this piece lacks, and wondering why it got a DD. The meaning isn't deep or amazingly portrayed (and don't reply with, 'what meaning can be deeper than love blah blah'). There are so many more artists out there that convey meanings in much better ways, and many that have far greater skill 'technically' (and I don't mean being able to copy a picture ¬_¬ ).
But I'm also not saying that the meaning is/was heartfelt, or lacked feeling by the way it is presented. I'm not saying that if this was drawn better or whatever, that it would 'mean' more. I'm not.
[This is not an attack on the artist of this piece, by the way. No offence is intended, I'm simply backing up my opinion].
I know moderators don't see every piece of art, and I know that 'people like me' need to suggest them more often, but perhaps the taste of the mod is slightly skewed somewhat, I don't know. 'Poor' artists got popular on dA by either being talented, or if they are actually lacking in skill, it's because they tend to do trendy/popular stuff, and when it comes to that, it doesn't matter how good or bad it's done, as long as it's 'in'.
My first line of 'This was a proposal? Did she say no?' was a harsh joke, like I have already said. I didn't mean that it wasn't good enough that it didn't count as a proposal, or hint at saying anything like you're implying my comment meant. It was simply meant to be taken as a joke, but it seems you and several others may have taken it too far/literal. Your high horse, dismount it!
You hope I never get kids? Hell, I hope I never get kids! I don't intend to have them, annoying little things. But saying that is kinda harsh, don't you think? If not then I hope you never get kids.
I don't judge people by their artistic skills, I don't know where you got that from. My friendships aren't based on if the person is an 'awesome' artist or not, I couldn't give a damn how good or bad they are. See, I'm not trying to make friends here, I keep that for real life, where it counts. All I was doing was voicing my opinion. Everyone has a right to do it, so why all this harassment?
If someone sent me a card with a little drawing on I'd cherish it - if I liked the person in the first place that is, no matter what the quality of the card. But if someone was to send me something poorly done and I didn't know them, then why should I care? Well, this card stuff went off on a slight tangent, but you did bring it up.
Look, this has got out of hand. All I did was give my opinion. Why does everything on dA have to be nice and arse-kissy bum-licky? I simply don't agree with this piece getting a DD is all. This isn't the only one, there're dozens, I just happened to stop on this one first.
It's frustrating for artists who do put more effort into the way things look AND have some meaning, who never get any recognition. And it's not only because 'people like me' don't suggest them. But whatever.
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But why are you associating DDs to quality? I'm not talking about tracing there, even without any reference, DDs should not be reserved to techniques! Your point here is that deviations like this don't look enough technical for you and just because of this fact, they don't deserve to be show to everybody. I'm not trying to lick someone's ass and I'm not defending this deviation especially, it's only because I got your comment on this one. There's a lot of DDs that people only classify as "porn" that are actually more than just porn ― and yeah, it might just be because of the technique ― and that I would defend.
There's also always a lot of people complaining about DD that aren't high technical stuff, being limited to this only. DDs don't mean that these deviations are the best quality, they just are deviations that the mods wanted to show to everybody, must it be for the quality or the message in it.
Look I'm not against the fact that you don't like it, even if I might not sound like it. It's perfectly alright that you think like that, and that's why I'm replying to you, because I have the right to try to make you change your opinion. The way you expressed yourself there was really harsh and I really doubt that anyone would think that it's a joke, because of how you said it. After your "joke", you complain about how it shouldn't be a DD. I do know that we couldn't hear your tone, that you might had said it with a joking tone, but even so, your point is still the same : You only care for the artistic level of the comic. For most people, that's what they read.
And look I know you can't change your comment there and I'm pretty sure that you don't even want to, okay I understand that it's the Internet, and that not everybody is nice, but if it was suppose to be a joke... then maybe try to make it look like one. I'm pretty sure that the artist himself wouldn't take it as a joke, but well...
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I'm relating DDs to quality simply because of the skill that goes into some pieces which never get a mention. It has nothing about looking technical, just reflecting some skill.
But there's nothing ground breaking or original in this piece. The message...yeah it's nice, but so what?
If I could, I wouldn't change my comment, and I'm not going to change my opinion. Regarding my joke, well, it's up to the artist to decide if he takes it super seriously or not. But I wasn't joking when I said it doesn't deserve a DD, because I feel it doesn't. Others think it does. I'm not trying to change their mind, or writing pages of comments to them demanding why they're being so nice. Each to their own, is what I say.
If I look at a piece of art that I like, and someone doesn't like it, well yeah, I curse them in my head, or call them stupid, but I don't go on any tirades or demand why they think the way they do. So what?
I wasn't trying to start any arguments here, but it seems like there're a lot of people like to argue, and like starting them and involving themselves in drama.
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I shouldn't really answer since you don't want to argue, but um I'm not trying to start drama here lol. Or this is not my definition of drama.
Anyway, I just want to understand here : what do you mean by skill? It sounded like techniques for me and that's what it means to me too. Having great artistic skills means having a lot of techniques, unless you put some originality or a pretty message.
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Skill, as in something different and original, or very creative, or well executed pieces of artwork. This is just my own opinion though.
This isn't directed at you personally, but I can't see why some people have such a problem with my opinion, just because I don't think it's very good.
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It's because of how you said it. I'm pretty sure people would be fine with you just saying that you don't like, and only a couple wouldn't like it if you said that it doesn't deserve a DD (but I don't think people would complain about that), but that "joke" was really harsh and that's what made me reply to you. That's the only reason.
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I see. Oh well, it's only the internet, there's no actual harm done.
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DD isn't about skill. It's about something which stands out.. and that means it can evoke an emotion with artistic skill, concept, technical achievement, or you know... just being unique in some way. If you do not see how this short comic is unique and stands out in terms of theme and presentation, then don't worry about it and go on about your day.
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I know that Moeby, but this fails to be unique in any way, especially in the ways you mentioned. It's just my opinion. It won't be changed. If you don't like it, well, tough
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That attitude is hot and makes me want your babies.
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Oh mai, I am flattered sir!
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Why would she say no? Didn't you read the comic.
People have different tastes in art. For 1 dislike there are so many people that do like it.
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The reason why I asked if she had said 'no' was because of the poor quality of the comic, it was intended as a harsh joke.
I did read the comic, and it is obvious that she said yes. I was simply showing my distaste for the style of art the artist has used to portray his love for his partner.
For 'so' many do like this, there's probably 10 who don't like it, but are polite enough not to voice their opinions.
I on the other hand, am not very polite, and voice my opinions whether they seem too harsh or seemingly unnecessary. I just think there're better pieces on deviantart which deserve a DD that get no recognition, while stuff like this gets picked.
Just because it's for a proposal doesn't mean there's artistic merit.
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"I just think there're better pieces on deviantart which deserve a DD that get no recognition"
Then suggest it and move on. Do you people have nothing better to do with your lives than to click on something you're expecting not to like and then wasting your time commenting on it? Why don't you take the time instead to suggest something that fits your personal idea of what good art is. Best part is that there will still be people who will disagree with you and say it's shit. That's the world of art, dear. I personally don't care much for minimalism, but I'm not arrogant enough to assert that it doesn't have artistic merit. Of course it does; it's an expression. And so is this piece.
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Do you people have nothing better to do than getting involved in something which doesn't really concern you?
I know there will always be people to disagree with whatever, so on and so forth - just like I'm disagreeing here. But on this piece, like I have said many times before, I was just voicing my opinion. Don't try and tell me off for that, that's ridiculous, dear. I'm not acting arrogant at all, I'm simply stating there're better pieces out there. I've suggested a couple, so we'll see.
I said what I said, and was ready to 'move on', but people like you keep bringing it back up. I think that the artist can defend his own work if he wants/needs. If he doesn't care what I say, then neither should you or anyone else who has a problem with my comments.
Again, it's my opinion. Get over it.
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"getting involved in something which doesn't really concern you?"
Pot calling the kettle black, much? How did the fact that this piece of art got a daily deviation concern you? No one forced you to click on it.
"I was just voicing my opinion."
As is every single person who responded to you. 
You are not "simply stating there're better pieces out there." You quite clearly stated that this piece has "no artistic merit whatsoever." One is a far cry from the other. If all you had said was "There are better pieces on this site..." I would have passed your comment by. Seriously, I think I could have more respect for the people who make the kind of comments you made if you didn't try to minimize what you said when it turns out other people have opinions too. If you stuck with it and gave a good reason for saying what you said, you still wouldn't be right in this case because this website is privately owned and thus subject to the rules made by those who own it, which includes conduct on daily deviations, but at least I could think, "Well s/he did bring up a good point." But, no, it's almost always, "That's not what I was saying! You're taking it too seriously! I have a right to my opinion! Haven't you ever heard of critique? It was just critique!" Go hard or go home, as they say.
"I said what I said, and was ready to 'move on'"
Well maybe the artist posted what he posted and was ready to 'move on'. But you still commented. And I'm sure you'll defend that with "it's a public site; I can say whatever I want", but there are two problems here. The first is that, likewise, your comment is public and thus people can say whatever they want to you. The second problem is that, while this site may be public, it's still privately owned and thus subject to the rules of those who own it. You agreed to those rules when you signed up. Each time you signed up. One of those rules is how you conduct yourself on other deviations and particularly on daily deviations. No, it doesn't mean you have to ass-kiss everyone, just that you're respectful. If you happen to think that what you said was in any way respectful, I'd hate to think how you interact with people on a daily basis.
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Why make it a personal quest to try and argue this further?
It concerned me as I am part of this community, therefore I have a right to view whatever I want here, and, here it comes again, voice my opinions. No one forced me to click it, but I chose to, to try and figure out why it got a DD.
Also I have no problem with people voicing their opinions, even if they do question my own. I'm not getting anal about it like people are.
So what if I chose to say what I wanted to here, on this piece, rather than towards the designated person?
Well, in my opinion, this piece doesn't have any artistic merit, and I do think there're far greater pieces of work out there that are being ignored. I'm not trying to back down, or change how I may be perceived just because people have an issue with what I said, and can't wait to join in trying to prove me wrong, just because I/they/we see things differently.
I am fully aware that this is a privately owned website, but there're no rules against voicing opinions, so your point there is moot. I just came along and left my opinion, like I have done in other places. So what if I didn't back it upon with some creative criticism? I simply don't care enough about the piece to go into any greater detail. He's obviously doing something right, as everyone else that's wrote something seems to like it. Why am I not allowed to dislike it? My harsh approach has already been discussed before you turned up. But your opinion is welcome, by all means.
'But you still commented.' Of course, that's why work is uploaded here...to share, and to give and receive comments. I felt as though I had to say what I said. I know people can say what they want to me, I don't have a problem with that. What I do have a problem with is people trying to further an argument for no reason other than self worth, or thinking they need to because what they have to say is all too important to pass up, or trying to act as some vigilante, or whatever. Because that's what it seems like to me, though I could be wrong...it's hard to tell the tone over the internet, which is how things end up in situations such as this. People are always misunderstanding things and involving themselves etc., you know the rest, I'm sure
And hey, I never said I was being respectful, though I wasn't intentionally trying to be disrespectful. Just truthful. I really couldn't care less what you or anyone else thinks, but if the artist has a problem with what I said then of course I'll apologise, but I'll still mean what I've said.
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I know, what I said was sarcastic. There are better pieces and worse pieces here on deviantart. It's not up to you. Deviantart doesn't need people to be rude to others just because their taste in art is different from others. This person made a nice looking comic, with his usual style, that had a purpose and a meaning.
Most people get picked because theyre not so well known like those big ass artist with lots of views and watchers per day.
With features like this a lot of other artists can get their art seen.
Why would all the big shot artist need more watchers for anyway? Just more inbox spam.
There is no general meaning for artistic merit.
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Hard to tell what's sarcastic over the internet though...one of its many problems.
I'm not saying it is up to me, but I'm allowed to have my own opinion about it, though, right? All I was saying that I, personally, don't think this piece deserves a DD. It was not meant to be an attack on the artist. I have a right to say what I want (as long as it's not offensive, of course).
I said there're better pieces of art here, that does not mean I was referring to the popular artists, does it? No. Because I wasn't. Derp.
But, if someone is popular because they produce good work, well, that's not their fault, is it?
It's insulting for artists (popular or not) who try hard and produce beautifully amazing work, to see things like this getting a DD, same goes for pictures of girls with their tits out. No artistic merit.
But DDs should be given to those who show they have some skill at what they do, but this piece lacks that (in my opinion, which is, mine to give).
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Your comment wasn't constructive or anything at all, you just bashed the artist.
The popular artists are the artists with the good works, which was what you were referring too.
People with good art get spotted easily, it's things as this that need to be in the spotlight.
It doesn't stand out a lot while it's lovely.
The style of the comic might not fit your taste but that doesn't make it any less of a comic.
I work hard and according to my watchers I produce good work but that doesn't mean people will note the staff for a DD.
I agree lately that the staff gives out a lot of worthless DD's but they get spammed by so many people they probably skip a few notes.
I also agree that all the soft porn here doesn't deserve a deviation.
It's a comic as you would find in a newspaper, people like a style like this and this person is obviously good at what he does.
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I wasn't trying to be constructive, and I never 'bashed' the artist, like I said, I was simply voicing my opinion. I just don't think this deserves a DD. The style (to me) seems boring, lazy, and overdone. People may like it, but it really doesn't require any great skill to produce work such as this, so therefore, I feel it doesn't deserve a DD.
I'm not asking people why they think it does deserve a DD, I'm simply saying it doesn't, so why am I being harassed for going against the majority?
I've seen many good artists on deviantart which have low page views and have never had one of their pieces featured or given a DD. Which saddens me and them, when a piece such as this is featured. It's not the artist's fault, so I'm not telling him off or anything, I'm just saying...
Also, please don't tell me what I was or wasn't doing, as I know better than anyone else what I meant. I was NOT referring to popular artists, although, they do, mostly, tend to be good at what they do.
Saying that, there're a load of poor artists that are ridiculously popular for whatever reasons. But anyway...
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Once more, it's about taste.
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And again, it's just my opinion.
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FAQ #873: What do I do when I disapprove of a Daily Deviation feature?
I'm not sure you realize, but the artist does not select when they get a Daily Deviation, it is chosen by a gallery moderator. Stating your distaste for a DD neither encourages the artist to improve nor provides a critique on their work.
Be a positive member of the community try those techniques instead.
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I do know how it works, and it wasn't a dig to the artist. I was just voicing my opinions. I wasn't trying to encourage the artist, or aiming to give critique. It was by no means an attack on the artist. It's hard to be a positive member of this community when it is so full of tripe. What happened?
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OK, it wasn't a dig at the artist?? You saying it has no artistic merit somehow isn't a dig at the artist? Can you explain that please?
Do you do this to every DD that you don't approve off? This, as in, create an anonymous account used simply to troll... you make it sound like it's an outrage that this was a DD. Just because it's not anime, nude photography, or FURRIES doesn't mean it's not suitable for some acknowledgement. (Seriously, 8 out of 10 pieces I see are the above mentioned.)
I'd much rather see playful cartoons than painfully shiny over-worked art--there's a story behind this--apparently a story you can't understand--as I'm sure there are many reasons they pick artwork for DDs.
Sorry kid, but we have to take what you say with a grain of salt since you are hiding behind a fake name. For someone just voicing your opinion you seem to want to force on the lot of us. You are entitled to your opinion, that's fine, no worries, but say it and move the hell on, stop trying to defend it like it's a fact.
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It just wasn't a dig on a personal level, I just don't think it deserved a DD, my reasons for this have been answered to others, and I don't want to write it all over again. This is getting boring now.
No I don't act like this over all the bilge that gets a DD, I was just browsing the DDs and happened to come across this, so I wrote what I felt at the time. It kind of is an outrage that this got a DD - to me. So what if I don't like it?
Sorry love, but what makes you think I want to see anime or 'artistic' nudes or 'FURRIES' get DDs? If you had paid attention to what I've said, I'm against shit like that getting DDs, lol. Seriously, I'm so curious to know where you got this information from...
Yes yes, I know there's a story behind this, yes I do understand it - it's not hard. I just don't think it deserves a DD. That's it. I think it's poorly drawn, simply executed, and the style is old and unoriginal. If the artist is offended by my comments, like I've already said, I will apologise, but that won't change my opinion.
I'm entitled to my opinion, and I'm not trying to force it on anyone. At all. But everyone is hassling simply because I disagree - once again, I'm not trying to force it on anyone, just backing it up, so what? I'll move on when everyone else does.
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Sorry kid, I didn't want to waste my time to read every single comment that you posted. Calling me love won't get you anywhere.
I understand you don't like it, I don't care, and Paul doesn't care. You're allowed to not like things. I agree, let's all move on, shall we?
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Well I wasn't trying to get anywhere with calling you love, as you won't by trying to undermine me by calling me kid
But maybe you should have read what I had said before jumping in.
If you don't care so much why did you feel the need to reply? I'm just trying to understand what your aim is. But I'm glad neither of you care, I wasn't trying to make you care.
But yes, I agree, let's all move on.
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The way Daily Deviations are chosen has not changed, A gallery moderator pickes one deviation, either by chosing themselves or selecting a suggested deviation. The only thing that may change is the artistic perspective between moderators.
Try suggesting a deviation that would suit your artistic viewpoint to the respective moderator, that would be a productive way to give artists you feel need more exposure on Deviant Art.
FAQ #18: Who selects the Daily Deviation and how is it chosen?
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Dude. I understand how it all works, and how it has always worked. I do not need you to tell me word by word, or give me links to the FAQ page...seriously -__-
My question to you at the end of my previous comment, "What happened?" was a rhetorical question, simply said with disdain at the popularity of poor art and porn being chosen for DDs.
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I was assuming by your userpage that since you've only been here a month and have no artwork in your gallery that you were new and uninformed. I apologize if this isn't the case.
'Poor art' in Daily Deviations is a matter of opinion, and certainaly yours to have - however, not on the artist's page.
Try suggesting them like I recommended, or if you're not motivationally inclined, try not clicking on the Daily Deviation.
Porn is not allowed on Deviant Art and should be reported immediately. The guidelines are fairly clear about what is allowed on the site and what isn't. I'll spare you the faq link since I'm sure you know where to find it.
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Fair enough, my page is rather blank, but I have had accounts in the past.
Well, porn is allowed, as long as it doesn't have a penis in it...
I know porn isn't allowed, but it still manages to make its way on here. Give me 2 minutes and I could link you to dozens of galleries which are trying to fob off porn as artistic photographs.
Everyone can see it, except those who run dA.
Sorry if my opinion upset some people, but I just had to get say it. I'm sure the artist doesn't really care that much himself; it will probably give him a laugh.
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Aw, that's adorable! I know everyone is saying that, but it really is.
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Haha you jammy bastard XD
good work not just on the pic BUT on the relationship
guess you been blessed with one such alike
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Awww. 
Its been said time and time again. But I cant help but have some of the ice melt away from my emptied chest.
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Omg, that is officially the coolest proposal I've ever heard of.
Congratulations & good luck to you both!
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i wish my boyfriend would do such thing to me :S... ech.. sweet
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omgosh thats sow sweet!
congrats
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