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quill-alchemist — How to Read
Published: 2009-03-23 20:48:51 +0000 UTC; Views: 10613; Favourites: 36; Downloads: 25
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Description
When debating with any random fan about a pairing, I've noticed that a majority of them pull things from the manga that either aren't' there, or it is there, but it's being grossly misinterpreted.
I'm not saying that every fan does this, only the extraordinarily batshit ones.
Most recently, it's practically anyone in the NaruHina fandom.
They start quoting shit from the manga to back up their pairing that absolutely has to come from their ass. There is no other logical explanation.
But the NaruHina fans aren't the only guilty ones.
- SasuSaku fans do/did it, though not so much anymore
- The Zootards (anyone who ships ZukoxKatara from the Avatar: The Last Airbender fandom) did/do it.
- And most hormonal and identity-challenged teenage girls who think that the Twilight series is "ZOMG THE GREATEST BOOK IN EXISTENCE U SHOULD READ IT NAO" do it as well.
AND ONCE AGAIN. THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO EVERY FAN, ONLY THE BATSHIT ONES. YOU KNOW WHO THEY ARE.
And I'm sure that there are a million more around, but those are just off the top of my head.
It's just really pathetic and horrendously sad, which is why I usually refrain from any sort of pairing war.
I end up laughing my ass off at the logic they use to defend their "OTP" because they literally pull it out of nowhere.
I have no other conclusion to draw other than they have to be reading /watching with their ass.
Friends don't let friends read with their ass.
inspired by ~Spootay 's comics
model : Melisa (my little sister)
picture taken by : Ricky II (my little brother)
idea : me
BTW: If you flame me, insult me, or critique me in a way that is unhelpful, you will not be acknowledged, though I can't say the same for my overprotective friends.
Though, in the end, I will just delete your comment and block you from my page permanently.
Choose your words wisely.
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Comments: 132
true that
lots and lots of talent!
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you can never be too sure tho...
Ps: I agree with the whole NaruHina thing...It's like it comes from another manga.
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haha, thanks!
yeah, I posted this at like the HEIGHT of the NH madness >.>
they really know how to drive someone who's Naruto canon-knowledgeable bonkers
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I... really don't get butt jokes. Don't get me wrong, I know that it means that if you ship pairing x you reading show/book y with your butt and all that jazz.
However, we live in a world where not EVERYONE is going to have the same opinion as everyone else because they come from different backgrounds, social situations, upbringings and so on so obviously we're all going to have the same opinions. Some people see subtext for other pairings and some people don't because of their tastes or the way they view the world. That's just the way people are. It doesn't mean that they 'read with their butt' it just means that they're different.
So as an English Literature Student who is actually studying Literary theory and is looking into WHY people read texts differently... I think butt jokes are a waste of time because they're basically just attacking people for having an opinion that's not the same as yours. Why not just ignore the rabid fans and go do something fun? I know that's hard sometimes (believe me it's hard for me to ignore canon purists, ugh) but usually it's better than making stuff like this and getting trolled. And the rabid shippers aren't hurting you by creating these random theories.
Plus, do you really, really want to be associated with people like Spootay? Honestly? Someone who spends that much time hating on a fandom even though she makes it the center of her attention 24 hours a day? Even I would be ashamed of her if she were in my fandom.
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Well...this poster wasn't necessarily meant to be a "butt joke" per se...
More like a play off of those commercials made for 'Rayman Raving Rabbids TV Party' when they were on back in the day.
"However, we live in a world where not EVERYONE is going to have the same opinion as everyone else because they come from different backgrounds, social situations, upbringings..."
If being a part of a fandom has taught me anything, it is that point right there.
I am totally all about respecting the rights of my fellow shippers to ship what they want, how they wanna ship it, and when they want to.
But I'm gonna be totally honest with you.
This poster was posted at the height of my fandom-running days when I'd go about Livejournal and lurk Narutoforums.com and debate with random shippers about things that I realized totally don't even matter in the long run.
Nowadays...I really couldn't give a rat's ass what fandom you're in, what you ship there, or why you ship it.
I mean, I *seriously* have better things to do with my time than to go around arguing with someone about the alleged "facts" pertaining to the alleged "love lives" of fictional characters >.>
If you wanna ship The Mad HatterxBuffy the Vampire Slayer because they both have ears and neither of them wears panties, then go right ahead.
That is totally your right.
Like I said, it was just posted at the height of my fandom-hopping days.
That one "NaruHina Confession" chapter just came out and then AtLA just ended and the fandoms' respective panties were all in a wad over this and that and I was just tired of debating random NaruHina fans and reading "Zutarian" theories on "Why Zutara Will Happen Blah Blah" and discovering that there was really no method to their madness at all.
But they believed/believe in it, and that is totally their right.
In all reality, (now here comes the great part about shipping) it doesn't have to be!
Because shipping is all about having fun.
There isn't a rule written anywhere that says 'SHIPPING IS SRS BSNS' and every reason you ship something has to be LOGICAL OR ELSE.
It's just about imagination and having fun and making friends and generally just enjoying yourself.
Like I said, back in the day I would debate shippers left and right and it just got so frustrating to try and argue with people and the logic they'd use to back their arguments made no sense.
It was like talking to a bloody wall.
I was like..."They've got to be pulling their facts out of their ass because that's the only way their logic makes sense."
As a law major...battling the rabid idiots with nonsensical logic drove me nuts
But I'm fairly certain that I'm over all of that shipping nonsense anyhow XD
Like I said.
Old news is old.
And Spootay...not that horrible of a person, actually, once you get to know her.
Shipping just does insane things to many, many people and I definitely think that there are far worse people in the AtLA fandom that one could associate themselves with.
She is lightweight compared to some of the others.
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Oh! Oh I wouldn't have guessed that because in the first set of comments you seemed really bitter towards the Zutara fandom. Seriously, your comment about Spootay knowing all really worried me and that's why I felt I needed to comment on this deviation.
*sigh of relief* I'm glad you've changed your view about fandom though. I wish more people just, didn't care about what other people shipped or whether someone makes theories on their ship's likeliness of canon or not because really? Canon doesn't matter and I learned that lesson after the ATLA finale because... well in my honest opinion, us Zutarians got the better half of the deal! *CACKLES EVILLY* *IS SHOT*
But yeah canon and trying to prove how canon your ship is (or how not canon your rival ship is *rolls eyes*) is SO over rated. I know it's awesome when your ship DOES kiss on screen but would you honestly love it less if THE kiss didn't happen?
"That one "NaruHina Confession" chapter just came out and then AtLA just ended and the fandoms' respective panties were all in a wad over this and that and I was just tired of debating random NaruHina fans and reading "Zutarian" theories on "Why Zutara Will Happen Blah Blah" and discovering that there was really no method to their madness at all."
I wouldn't say there was no method to their madness, although some Zutara shippers really did go crazy with their theories. I admit around season 3, when everyone was debating I was kind of in the middle about whether Zutara would be canon or not. On the one hand, I thought the canon ships were being written so badly that perhaps they WERE going to crash and burn (...I still wonder what the heck Bryke were doing when they wrote the romance in season 3). But on the other hand, there would be no time to develop Zutara beyond a friendship/crush without making Zutara look half assed as well...
But yeah, like you said, we all kind of went crazy during season 3. *SCREAMS* Anyway, as I said I'm happy with the fanservice we Zutara shippers got because we got some really wonderful moments. Screw canon! <3
"And Spootay...not that horrible of a person, actually, once you get to know her."
Did you get to know her when you were a Zutara shipper or AFTER you quit being a Zutara shipper? Because I think that may have something to do with her sudden personality changed. 
Sorry, sorry, I'm just very skeptical. She made fandom a complete NIGHTMARE for me during season 3 just by 'acting' like a dickwad and I'm kind of reserving the right to make fun of her and her nonsensical logic until I actually do see proof that she's not total dog poop. Plus, butt jokes bother me like nonsensical logic bothers you. ATTACKING OTHER PEOPLE'S INTERPRETATIONS WITH SILLY LITTLE JOKES IS UNFORGIVABLE TO AN ENGLISH LITERATURE STUDENT!
"She is lightweight compared to some of the others."
*BURSTS OUT LAUGHING*
... Oh you're serious! Sorry, sorry. Like I said, very skeptical unless sees otherwise. I hate butt jokes/canon purism that much.
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Bitter?
Yeah...slightly XD
But it's long since faded, I assure you.
Just check the dates on those comments...they're nearly a year old!
I've long since digressed from caring about AtLA pairings since the series ended
I'm still amazed that the wank continues, actually.
Even IF a movie is coming out...
It's like...C'mon, guys. It's over. Let it go! XD
And my inner Zutarian is with you on that we got the better end of the deal XD
I mean...even IF Mai and Zuko got an on-screen kiss...
We STILL have the fact that Zuzu moved faster than lightening to save Katara's life.
To me, that means a whole lot more than Aang having his canon cake and eating it too >.>
" I wouldn't say there was no method to their madness, although some Zutara shippers really did go crazy with their theories. I admit around season 3, when everyone was debating I was kind of in the middle about whether Zutara would be canon or not."
Me too, actually XD
I was really like...."Okay, I really can't call this one. It's been "Kataang-y" since season one but they're really giving Zuko and Katara some fabulous on-screen chemistry here. It's gonna be tough."
I really enjoyed the first Zutara week, not gonna lie.
I was all hyped up and like "YES OMG THIS IS SO AMAZING ZUTARA'S GONNA BE ALL CANON AND SHIT YAYZ"
and then after the finale I was ROYALLY pissed...
but after talking with some other Zutarians about it, I realized that, yeah. We DID have the better end of the deal.
Plus I could never see Kataang working out logically anyway.
It was too Oedipus Complex-y for my tastes XDD
So I figured between Zutara Week and the post-finale fanfiction, I was good.
But THEN
I heard that a chosen few were gonna remake the ending and I was like 'WTF YOU GUYS. SRSLY?'
That was just taking it a bit too far IMO.
I mean...I can understand not liking the ending and wishing things had gone differently...
but for Chrissakes...remaking the ending?!?
That was just crossing a line.
It kind of opened my eyes to really how a select batshit few can really make a whole fandom look bad.
And after that...I just kinda dropped out of it...not really wanting to associate myself with a bunch infamous for being borderline cult-ish and generally batshit insane (though that's not to say that EVERY Zutarian was insane...just a few)
But I still fave some Zuko/Katara art and enjoy a good fanfic every now and then XD
But overall it doesn't really matter to me anymore.
I've moved on to bigger and better things
And as far as *Spootay goes...
once you take out the fandom craziness...you really get to know a lot about a person.
Some of my best friends on this site do not ship the same way I do at all!
Because yeah, you can meet some great people and make some excellent friends through shipping the same...
but it's really says a lot once you strip away what you what you have in common with someone and get to know the person underneath.
*Doxeh and =Kiitsi were Kataangers when I met them...and though we would have hardcore debates over our ships, I never really took it personally because you shouldn't let someone's choice in ships decide whether or not you're their friend.
To me, that's extraordinarily vapid and shallow.
You really could be missing out if that's the way you choose them.
That's why I think Ship Wars are so stupid and pointless...they make fools of us all.
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Oh but of course! I have a friend named stormybabe who ships Kataang and I love her to bits because I felt like she saw me as a person and not a shipper. <3 I know what it's like to be judged based on what I ship so I wouldn't do it to another person. I've been on the receiving end of bashing too much to be like the idiots who persecuted me over something as small as shipping.
*raises eyebrow* I'm sorry but I don't quite agree with you about the Zutara finale remake. I think it's unfair that fandom in general is penalizing us for what the kataang fandom has also done. The Kataangers are making a season 4 and I don't see you or anyone else pointing the "OMG they're crazy" finger at them, which is unfair because they're doing exactly the same thing as us. Really, I just think all this drama over the Zutara finale is just another excuse to bash us and call us insane like some people always do because they've either got too much time on their hands, can't stand that people don't share their opinion or are jealous of our fandom. 
Don't believe me? One of the writers in the team said that Aang and Mai were going to be treated with the utmost respect and that the Zutara remake was purely for fun, not to spite Mike and Bryan. That's what people in these kinds of animated projects do, they explore the unbeaten path so not only they can have fun but so can their fandom can enjoy what they've created.
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Good to know that there's still some people out there willing to give the person behind the shipper a chance
Most people I know wouldn't think twice about it...
it's crazy how fast people's morals are going down the toilet >.>
Haha, I didn't think that you would.
TBQH I didn't think that that project was still being worked on XD
"I think it's unfair that fandom in general is penalizing us for what the kataang fandom has also done. The Kataangers are making a season 4 and I don't see you or anyone else pointing the "OMG they're crazy" finger at them, which is unfair because they're doing exactly the same thing as us"
I...didn't even know that they were doing it.
But even still...just because they're doing it doesn't make it any less crazy XD
I think what the 'Kataangers' are doing is just as inane, if not more so than ya'll's little project.
I mean, it took Mike & Bryan a good 9 months to put together just one episode of Avatar...
Planning to re-make anything like that seems just a little over-the-top and a waste of time to me...
but then again, that's just me XD
But to each, his own.
"Really, I just think all this drama over the Zutara finale is just another excuse to bash us and call us insane like some people always do because they've either got too much time on their hands, can't stand that people don't share their opinion or are jealous of our fandom."
Not to be rude or anything, but along with the finale remake and insinuations like that, most of you have just been asking for it.
It's a horrible thing to say, but quite honestly, I am really tired of every Zutarian and their brother playing the 'everyone hates on me cuz I don't ship canon!' card....
It's just seriously irritating.
I mean, when your fandom does crazy things, you're going to get a crazy label.
You don't want the crazy label, don't do crazy things.
It's really not everyone else with the problem.
Trust me, I used to lurk on some of the Zutarian forums back in the day and the things some Zutarians would do borderline on the downright cult-ish and creepy. (not EVERY Zutarian, mind you. Just the hardcore ones.)
I think the only people who surpass Zutarians on that scale are Twihards.
Chances are, 95% of the Avatar fandom doesn't even really give a flying flip whether you ship Zuko/Katara or not.
But that's not to say that the Zutarians are the sole "bad guys" of the fandom...
each party has been guilty of trolling, waangsting, hating, and generally just being an asshole.
It's just, with the Zutarians, you guys are larger in number so your antics were more noticeable and more public and you thusly received rebuke.
It's just crazy what pairing wars can do to a fandom...
divide it, label it, flush it down the drain...
...OHMIGAWD
I never thought I'd be ranting about Avatar again XDD
"the Zutara remake was purely for fun, not to spite Mike and Bryan. That's what people in these kinds of animated projects do, they explore the unbeaten path so not only they can have fun but so can their fandom can enjoy what they've created."
In all seriousness though, if that's what the re-make is about, more power to ya.
I hope you get it finished after all this time and enjoy the hell out of it XD
I know you've got some talented people doin' this so I know it'll be good to say the least.
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...
'Asking for it' ey? Hahaha! Then I guess the guy who made a really rude stamp about Zutara shippers was 'asking' for me to condemn him and his entire fandom forever and ever and ever.
I'm not trying to upset you or make you angry, I'm just telling you what I think! Geez, relax. It's as if you think I was saying that about you! You're not one of the crazies who are determined to bash every single thing the Zutara fandom does, are you?
I make those assumptions about ANYONE who is THAT obsessed with another fandom. And believe me, from what I've seen in the ATLA fandom, it's hard for me to NOT think that the ATLA fandom cares what I or my fandom thinks because they seem pretty determined to tell even the sane shippers that we're 'crazy' and 'bat shit insane'. I act sane so I don't get the crazy label but other members of the fandom, inside and outside the Zutara fandom, don't seem to care whether they get labeled as such so excuse me for making those assumptions but the anti Zutarians haven't given me any reason to believe that they're otherwise. At least I'm judging them by the way they act, not what they ship, which is something they LOVE to do.
Honestly? I couldn't care what someone thinks of me because I ship pairing x because of the... *bursts laughing* 'insinuations' I've just listed about the people who judge me based on what I ship. Like Eleanor Roosevelt said, the only person that can make you feel inferior is yourself and I'm not going to make the losers I've just described make ME feel inferior. I should think that's better than crying about what fandom thinks of me, isn't it? Are you happy now? Shall I send this message to all my fellow Zutara shippers so that you may feel less irritation? 
I GUESS that's true. If the kataang or maiko fandom were as big they would get a lot of jokes made about them too. I know the Harry/Hermione fandom gets a lot of undeserved hate because they're a big fan base AND they're fanon. However, I'm a Ron/Hermione shipper and I haven't condemned the Harry/Hermione fandom based on what someone else has said about them or what their... less sane counterparts have done.
As I always say fandom is a two way street, it's about yourself AND the other people. The antis are not willing to give the Zutarians any respect, the Zutarians aren't willing to give the antis any respect. If the ship war is ever going to end this needs to stop on both sides so it shouldn't be up to one fandom to apologize for everything but for both sides to stop giving the crazy label to fandoms.
Hey! I came up with a great word for the Zutara/Kataang/Maiko/Non shipping rabid people. 'Crazies'! :evilaugh:
"I mean, it took Mike & Bryan a good 9 months to put together just one episode of Avatar...
Planning to re-make anything like that seems just a little over-the-top and a waste of time to me...
but then again, that's just me XD
But to each, his own."
EXACTLY! *faints* I wish fandom would just get that!!!!
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Well, to be perfectly fair, people who make hate stamps and anti-fanwork are pretty much welcoming the opportunity for someone with a weak will and lack of maturity to rise to the bait.
It's pretty much a given.
If someone makes hate work for a fandom as popular as Zuko/Katara, they're going to catch some flack for it.
It's like...the rule of the internet. >.>
Freedom of speech works both ways.
And it's all good.
I'm really not offended by your opinion.
Everyone has one and we're not all going to agree...
I guess the Zuko/Katara fans are just one of my hot buttons.
Personally, what summarizes my view on the whole thing is 'Hate the fantards, not the fandom'
I actually like the pairing of Zuko/Katara still...just not the fans.
Most of them give the fandom a bad name.
Most. Not all >.>
Like I said, I really have better things to do with my time than to bash on a fandom that's trying to relive it's glory days.
I mean I really don't get why people still get up in arms about AtLA pairings.
You say people bash you still?
I mean...the show is over for God's sake XD
Maiko and Kataang were endgame canon >.> (as poorly thrown together as it was...)
Most people shouldn't/don't care about rival pairings anymore.
It's just so ridiculous and silly.
Anyone who bashes anything to do with AtLA really needs get find a different hobby e.e
Trolling the AtLA fandom is so 2007.
Zutara shippers ship fanon and Maiko/Kataang shippers ship canon.
That's just how it is XD
If anyone still cares...they need to get a life. Seriously.
"Honestly? I couldn't care what someone thinks of me because I ship pairing x because of the... *bursts laughing* 'insinuations' I've just listed about the people who judge me based on what I ship. Like Eleanor Roosevelt said, the only person that can make you feel inferior is yourself and I'm not going to make the losers I've just described make ME feel inferior. I should think that's better than crying about what fandom thinks of me, isn't it? Are you happy now? Shall I send this message to all my fellow Zutara shippers so that you may feel less irritation?"
And as many times as I've read this paragraph, I cannot make heads or tails of it so I'm not 100% on how I should properly respond.
I hope I can do this and it still makes sense.
Seriously, the only thing that really annoys me is the fact that this is even an issue anymore.
I mean, I *honestly* don't have anything against the Zuko/Katara fandom other than they're a little batshit.
But all in all, the show is over.
If you ship Zuko/Katara, that's perfectly fine!
I really don't care at all!
But when people comment on my poster with things like "Don't hate on the Zutarians! Respect our opinions!" and such, I'm just like..."Go away"
It's a tad hypocritical for someone to jump down my throat because I'm poking fun at a fandom, when they are doing the exact same thing they're rebuking me for: attacking someone who has an opinion different from theirs.
If that's what I think, then it's what I think.
I don't appreciate people coming up in my space and preaching at me because my opinion offends them.
There's always a 'back' button they can push and start looking for art that *doesn't* offend you, which I think would be far more pleasant than being a troll.
I mean, it's like you said in your original comment: "Why not just ignore the rabid fans and go do something fun? I know that's hard sometimes...but usually it's better than making stuff like this and getting trolled"
Trolling only begets trolling, as much as I hate to admit it.
I hadn't meant to offend you, either.
I actually don't get much enjoyment out of arguing with people on the internet because, as I said, I have better things to do with my time.
All I had meant to show you was that everyone *isn't* out to get you about your fandom.
It's okay to be out and proud about shipping Zuko/Katara these days because most people don't really care.
Because if someone *doesn't* ship Zutara, they ship canon and they're ships were endgame and to them, that's enough.
Their ships won, so they have no reason be to play Bash-the-Infidel! anymore.
(Though I suppose I can see some trolls still doing it...but honestly those re-re's aren't worth your time. Just lol at them, block them, and go on.)
I actually enjoy pretty much every Avatar ship except for Katara/Aang & Toph/Aang
I know I completely hate it when people get all up in my face about my ships, so I don't do it to other people.
Make love, not war
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"I actually like the pairing of Zuko/Katara still...just not the fans.
Most of them give the fandom a bad name.
Most. Not all >.>"
Most of them? Are you sure that most them are crazy because they ship Zutara or crazy because you keep making tired jokes about their sanity or keep making out their bat shit insane? Because I'm a very reasonable person, you know that from the fact that I approached you calmly in respects to the motivational poster but maybe if you approached Zutarians like they were people instead of nut jobs, MAYBE you would find that some of them are actually great people who would be happy to be your friend if you didn't insult their sanity every 5 seconds?
I know you're embarrassed by some of the things our fandom has done but is your embarrassment really worth alienating a group of people? Because I've seen other Zutarians who didn't like their fandom but they didn't have to make jokes or get nasty towards their own fandom, they just left quietly or either tried to make their fandom better by not acting so nuts/calmly reasoning with their fellow shippers.
In future, hang out with the anti zutarians less. I think they are what is making you angry towards your former fandom, not just how some Zutarians act.
"But when people comment on my poster with things like "Don't hate on the Zutarians! Respect our opinions!" and such, I'm just like..."Go away""
Why? If you didn't want people talking to you about how offensive this poster is then maybe you shouldn't have made it. It's really irritating when trolls make posters like this and get offended when someone gives them a hard time over it because although they're entitled to their opinion, freedom of speech also allows others to comment or protest against stuff like this so if they can't handle the backlash, they shouldn't create wank in the first place.
"All I had meant to show you was that everyone *isn't* out to get you about your fandom."
I KNOW that. If I believed that I would said that the whole of the ATLA fandom sucked and not the anti Zutarians and all the other trolls that make fandom a miserable experience. *head desk*
You know this conversation started as fun but plummeted when you began talking obsessively about the Zutara fandom. When I get you off the subject of the Zutara fandom you seem like a really fun person but I don't want to talk to you if you're going to constantly rant about how most the Zutara fandom is crazy because it's really unpleasant and makes YOU look like a crazy person. Imagine how people would look at me if I labeled the whole kataang fandom the way you're labeling the Zutara fandom, that's how I'm looking at you right now.
Life is too short for conversations like this so when you've stopped being bitter, look me up.
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I'm so sorry that it came to this.
I was really hoping to reach some sort of amicable agreement and get beyond the shipping nonsense but I suppose you've already made up your mind about me.
I'm always a little disappointed when I can't at least end an argument on good terms with someone but it seems that we've reached a point in which neither of us are willing to back down.
But it's all good, like I said.
It seems you'd be more at home with people who are still fervently in the AtLA fandom instead of me.
I totally get it.
I've just had multiple bad experiences with overzealous Zutarians and it's left me jaded, I apologize.
It's just hard to come to a different conclusion when the same result occurs after multiple experiments.
In retrospect, I probably shouldn't have been so harsh toward you. It's really not your fault that I have this attitude.
You don't represent the entirety of the fandom so it was unfair to judge you by your ship instead of getting to know you first.
In any case, I hope that you enjoy the Zutarian ending remake project and what becomes of it.
You seem very passionate about Zuko & Katara and it's good to have that kind of passion in life.
Anyway, I'm slowly running out of things to say without sounding corny so I'll just end this by saying live long and prosper.
Ta.
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Zuko/Katara is called Zutara.
I was in the shipping wars when I was into Avatar. I'm trying to stay out of it. Hence the reason for Naruto my OTP is ItaHana. Which is for the most part crack. Seeing as Itachi is dead.
But, I got a lot of kataangers saying that I was watching the show with my butt.
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I know that it's called Zutara, love.
I put it like that because many people do not know or understand the meaning of it's alternate sobriquet
I used to be in the middle of the Avatar shipping wars as well, but gave up after the show ended.
What's done is done, and people will ship what they wanna ship for whatever reason they deign to ship it with.
Who am I to stop them?
I was a so-called "Zutarian" as well, but quit advertising that fact due to the name that more popular Zutarians had created quite an unfavorable name for our lot.
Many "Zutarians" shipped Zuko and Katara based on "facts" and "discoveries" that weren't actually there in the beginning at all
Season Three gave us some GREAT on-screen chemistry between the two of them, and I still believe that they would have been a fantastic and more realistic couple than Katara and Aang, but many "Zutarians" were just a hair above batshit insane when it came to the two of them...saying they should've been together for this reason and that reason.
And that's all fine and good, like I said, ship what you want, how you want, but really, if you are going to ship something, one should do it with a bit more logic.
Use reasoning that actually exists
There was in fact, NO evidence prior to season three, season two finale excluded, for Zuko and Katara to be a couple.
There were some nice insinuations and quite a bit of ship-baiting, but that was just a bit of taunting on Mike & Bryan's part.
Personally, I believe that the whole situation got out of control.
Everyone knew that Kataang would be the end-game ship from the first episode, but a few the Zutarians pressed on, insisting that this non-existent fact and that non-existent fact proved that Zuko and Katara were canon.
I'm not trying to say that Zuko and Katara had NO support or evidence from the show.
As I said, Season Three was the perfect set-up for them to become a couple.
All I'm saying is people should use more logic and reason, especially when arguing in favor of their ship.
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True.
Though apparently, after the series ended Nick began to play epsiodes with tidbits on them, and one of them was that Zuko was going to be the original love interest for Katara. I've heard that Mike and Bryan did ship Zutara and that staff artists wanted kataang so Mike and Bryan caved.
Either way, I agree with enter thing got out of control. I was probably one of the "crazies" so that's why when I went to Naruto, I made a solemn vow to NOT get into the ship wars. Yeah, I'll read stuff that supports my ship like so-calld "evidence" but I'm not gonna go to someone that doesn't ship my ship and say you are wrong/stupid because blahblahblah.
I personally ship SasuSaku, but I also like ItaSaku and SasuKa.
Does that make me a bad shipper?
No. Not really.
I just happen to think that they are good couples as well.
I only dislike three ships in Naruto. NaruSaku, ShikaIno and SasuIno.
Pretty much everything else I can either careless about or like.
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Only believe half of what you see,
and none of what you hear, m'dear
As far as I'm concerned for Avatar, what's done is done
It's all "could've, would've, should've" now
And if you were looking to get away from the "batshit crazies"...
The Naruto fandom was totally the WRONG fandom to get into XD
Nowadays, that fandom is anything BUT one giant ship war...
and that's why I got out of it...
because nobody cared about the actual story anymore (which has gone down the shitter as well, mind you) it was ONLY about who was doing who and who has more reason to do who e.e
It's a friggin mess!
And I feel ya on that one XD
Crack couples were always my faves <33
Less wank, more creative and realistic XDD
The only ships I really couldn't (and still can't) stand were SasuSaku, NaruSaku, NaruHina, and NejiTen
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What about NaruSaku? They act always rub it in that NaruSaku is the more likely pairing.
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Any and every fandom is guilty to a degree of reading with their ass, I think.
Everyone's done it at some point or another
The thing is, that people need to remember that shipping doesn't have to be so SRS BSNS all the time XD
People ship what they want to ship and it should all be in good fun!
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I simply LOVE that one banner!
May I add about Twilight that WRITING is something you can't do with your butt? (I kind of fear the wrath of the fangirls. o_o)
And I do believe Zutara is canon (yup, I saw the ending), but I'll agree that those who want to find hints or foreshadowing in every single episode get irriating very fast and very easily...
As for NaruHina: I used to ship it, it does have potential, but not any more than other side pairings Kishimoto introduced to us, such as ZabuzaHaku (
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Writing is indeed something that can't be done with your butt, though SMeyer somehow managed to pull it off! XDDD
I fear nothing! I has the power of LOGIC.
Indeed they do, and they did.
Though I would be lying if I said that I wasn't part of the hype back in the day XD
It wasn't until after proverbial shitstorm that occurred between the canon ships and the Zutarians did I realize how unbelievable illogical they were and I had been XDD
I mean, for me, Zutara did have more canon in those last three episodes than that Kataang kiss did in their two seconds XDD
(I mean, how corny was that? 3 episodes ago she was confused, and now she's sucking on his tonsils? WTF, guys?)
Though if you've ever watched AvidKTJO's Zutara AMVs...you definitely know what I'm talking about.
They LITERALLY analyzed EVERY EPISODE to find Zutarian evidence XDD
It was NUTS.
I mean, there was some shipping stuff for us thrown in there in some episodes, but not every single one, for the love of God XD
And yeah, that ties back into NaruHina as well, though I believe that ordeal with Hinata in the manga was just to appease the NaruHina fans XD
I honestly don't believe that he doesn't have any more intention of making them canon than he does with SasuSaku XD
SasuNaru for life!
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"AND ONCE AGAIN. THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO EVERY FAN, ONLY THE BATSHIT ONES. YOU KNOW WHO THEY ARE."
If you want this message to get across better, you shouldn't have picked on some of the fandoms you mentioned in the above statement. Immedietly the reader is going to think you are singling them out or subjecting every member of their fandom to one, close minded view.
Plus the "you read with your butt joke" is a very tasteless phrase to use for anyone who has a different opinion. People, naturally, will interpret things differently and although some people will greatly exaggerate the things they see, should this mean that anyone with a different taste should be ridiculed? Whether we like it or not, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I may not like Twilight but I know there are people who do and I would not call them a "moron" or "idiot" or that they have "no idea what romance means" based on the fact that they may like the book very much. That would be like calling someone a moron for not liking chocolate ice cream over strawberry, or that your tastes buds are dead.
Let people read and interpret literature how they want. Let people enjoy fandom how they please. And they'll let you enjoy yours. Because these things just cause a big hassle and unnecesarry aggro.
Sorry if you were offended, not looking for a big debate but just having my say.
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Thanks for the comment, and thank you for being civil about this.
I wasn't offended and I totally see where you're coming from.
Though, I did also say this in my author's comment:
'And I'm sure that there are a million more around, but those are just off the top of my head.'
I also said that my words did NOT apply to every fan, because I do know that sane fans exist in every fandom.
I'd hate for someone to completely generalize my fandoms, and I try to do it as little as possible if I can.
Those fandoms weren't chosen to single any one person ,or people, out.
They were merely examples of fans who are notorious for blowing small things WAY out of proportion and not using common sense.
I'm sure you understand I didn't have time to list every single fandom that has been accused of being rabid and insane on there, because I know full well that the ones I listed are not the only ones around
They were, as I said, just some fandoms from off the top of my head.
As an English Major, I totally understand freedom of interpretation.
Someone writes something, publishes it, and the public then reads it and it is then up to their own imagination to determine the meaning, or lack thereof, behind it.
But by the same token, it's hard for me to see certain texts, let's take Naruto for example, and have the fans find "evidence" for their pairing where none exists in the slightest.
I don't hate every ships that's different to mine, and I certainly don't hate the fans in those fandoms because they ship different than me or think they are stupid.
Everyone is different, everyone has their own likes, dislikes, personalities, and tastes.
Not everyone will look at a story or piece of artwork and see exactly what I see or think exactly what I think.
And that certainly doesn't mean that they are wrong or stupid, I agree.
And by no stretch of the imagination do I think that my OTPs are the Alpha and Omega of all pairings and anyone who doesn't ship them is a major moron and should be shipped to Mars.
But it really makes me wince when I see something being used totally out of the context it which it was meant.
A degree of common sense needs to be used when picking out "evidence" for a pairing, or just for reading in general.
I really don't care if people ship NaruHina or SasuSaku or whatever other pairing.
It's just....if they back it up with things that make no sense, or are in some way bizarrely twisted and mangled to meet their justifications...then that only serves to make them look foolish.
That's what I mean by this poster.
Read whatever the hell you want, think whatever you want to think, but all this poster is saying is please be intelligent about it.
Don't look at it through rose-colored glasses and think that 'Oh! Well, these two characters belong with each other obviously because this character thought about her and cried!'
Fans often forget preceding events, or purposely choose to ignore them, and come to bizarre conclusions that just make you go 'Okay...what? Where did you get that?'
I know that I'm not the creator so obviously I won't always know what exactly every scene is supposed to be interpreted as, but some fans come up with some wild-ass shit that just makes me go 'WTF' and laugh.
Do they have the right to come to such insane conclusions?
Sure they do.
Everyone does.
But I absolutely have the right to say: 'Hey. What you're doing is stupid and a discredit to our fandom. Stop it.'
As for Twilight...I have friends and family members who adore the hell out of that book.
And honestly, a lot of that really was from my own opinion, but I'll say this much about it:
People tout Stephanie Meyer and her books around like they are the greatest assets to mankind since fire and the wheel...
but in all actuality, her writing is terrible, her 'hero' is more like an abusive anti-hero...and Bella is simply an author insert.
The 'romance' leaves much to be desired, and any character that has the potential to become an greater character or develop and affect other characters in a positive manner, are squashed within chapters of being introduced.
Her books have given young girls a false sense of what real true love and what to look for in a future mate.
Not that a majority of the general populace of teenage girls aren't brainwashed enough already by the media, now we have this horrid piece of literature to further numb their minds to reality.
Most of those 'tweens' as they're so aptly dubbed, also read this book with rose-colored glasses.
Something that's considered 'JUST OH SO ROMANTIC' is actually quite the opposite.
Though...Twilight wasn't entirely as bad...it did have it's high points.
Though, overall, it wasn't worth the read in any universe.
And this isn't just my opinion, but also the opinion of most of the intellectual community.
Though, it is simply an opinion nonetheless.
If reading Twilight makes people happy, go for it.
Just read it with an open mind and use common sense.
That's all that I'm saying.
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I've actually talked to some people who just plain MADE UP things about parings being cannon. One said something about Naruto and Sakura going on a date and kissing, and another said Neji and Tenten got married and having 10 kids. >__>;
Fans of certian pairings seem to over-analyze because there is NO concrete evidence that the two characters they ship together even have feelings each other at all. I mean, sure, support what you like, but don't try to pretend a pairing has solid evidence when there's nothing.
I kinda wish you hadn't used SasuSaku as an example though ;__; at least Sakura has feelings for him, and if Sasuke hadn't been so focused on his avenger thing, something might have eventually happened with those two. D: I'm not one of those people who's going to exaggerate things to make SasuSaku seem cannon. I know it's one-sided, but I still like it ._.
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"I mean, sure, support what you like, but don't try to pretend a pairing has solid evidence when there's nothing."
Exactly
I ship TONS of crack ships because there's no shame in it.
I mean...I like NejiSaku...but I don't go around trying to find evidence that they were meant to be together or anything XD
That almost takes the fun away.
Shipping is about imagination, and if your pairing has a canon backing, that's great, but you should be sure that your pairing is TRULY backed by canon before you go touting it off as such.
Using things that the original creator had never intended for canon, and then twisting it to be that way is wrong and only makes shippers look foolish XD
Honestly, people have taken the fun out of shipping for me.
All I'm going to do now is sit back comfortably, faving fanart of my OTP, and wait for everyone's "theories" to be proven wrong.
It will be so much more satisfying than going out and bashing them
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Yeah, I agree.
I've pretty much stuck to making fanart, and looking at fanart. Pairing debates get so annoying, it's obvious that not everyone is going to agree on the same pairings or what was "meant" by each thing that happens. So I'll just support my pairings quietly, it's better than getting worked up about it or fighting with someone. XD
Personally, I've stopped caring if my OPTs become cannon or not. If it does, great. If it doesn't, hey, I'm just different in my tastes in pairings. (I'm not going to go crazy about it either way though, if I wanted two characters to end up together that much, I'd just write my own series. XD)
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GOOD FOR YOU! XD
Glad to see that there are a few good people left in the world with common sense!
Arguing on the internet is like a race in the Special Olympics.
Even if you win, you're still retarded.
Fan fiction is the best
I need to get started on some of my own XD
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XD
Yeah.
I like fan fiction too,
but I never write any.
I've started a bunch, but I never finish them XD
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LOL SAME XD
I always get too hard on myself and just kinda quit XD
I had like...a THOUSAND different ideas but none of them quite fit and things got switched around and I was like...'this idea sucks I need a new one' XD
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That's what happens to me too!
Or I think of like, the PERFECT description of a scene for a fanfic and then I go to write it down and it's just...gone XD
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XD inorite? XD
It's frustrating as hell!
especially when you're at work and all you have are pizza boxes or napkins to write on!
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Yeah!
The worst is when it happens at school and I don't want to write down something and have people being all "What are you writing?!" XD
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and looking over your shoulder and shit xDDD
one time I was in my math class and writing a lemon-scene and had this guy looking over my shoulder the whole time DX
it was angering XD
I think I still have it...somewhere
though I never actually got around to writing the whole thing XD
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Yeah. XD
Wow, that's awkward...
People will just take things from me and look through them or read them, so I don't write anything personal during school anymore. XD
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aw, man.
I'm afraid I'd hurt someone if they read my stuff xDD
That stuff is really personal sometimes!
Plus I write in like incomplete sentences and abbreviate things so it's not like anyone really understands my gibberish writing anyway
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Same with some of the things I've written.
Especially when I write things in third person that are really referring to my own thoughts/feelings/experiences and I make it a bit too obvious, so they know I'm really talking about myself. It gets weird. XD
I do that when I take notes in class, so sometimes I don't even know what it's supposed to mean.
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LOL same here xDD
it's like...you go back to look at your notes and go 'WTF WAS I ON WHEN I WROTE THIS?!'
and then you cry because you can't finish your homework without your notes and have to cry to your friends to have mercy on you and help you out
I need to start writing, again.
I miss it, and my muse is kicking my ass XDD
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If only you could with your butt then your eyes won't be so tired, but then again how will you be able to turn the page?
Hmm
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xD you could still flip with your hands, I suppose!
It'd just get tedious after the first 50 pages or so!
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XD Oh, yes, that is tedious!
Hands were meant to be used for great things besides reading with your butt!
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I love it when people write essays about how their ship is going to happen. Citing historical and psychological facts to back it up.
Seriously?
Those things have nothing to do with Naruto. If physics don't apply there why should anything else?
Those people make me laugh.
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I 
you seem to get it!
I've seen all sorts of ships citing stupid things that UNDOUBTEDLY PROVE that their ship is going to be canon XD
these crazy-ass manifestos they come out with and cling too like its the gospel truth XDD
it's hilarious, i agree XD
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Have you ever been to the anime/manga thread on Gaia?
Sometimes I go there and hunt around for threads like that just so I can laugh at them.
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I don't troll on Gaia too much XD
The most hilarious ones are on LJ
you should go trolling through ship_manifestos
its makes me LOL like no other XDD
so does Naruto Forums xDD
especially after Hinata's "shining moment"
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I try not to actually comment on those things.
They get angry very easily.
Yeah, as much as I love Hinata and especially loved her confession I've been rather annoyed at how many more NaruSaku NaruHina arguments I've run across, and suddenly they're all either saying 'If Naruto and Hinata get together I'm going to kill Kishimoto' or 'If Hinata dies I'm going to go off myself.'
Some people.
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LOL
looks like Chapter 437 is where we part ways XD
I did not like it at all, and thought if anything, it was made her look like her only purpose in this manga was to sacrifice herself for Naruto.
I honestly don't think that Hinata and Naruto will get together because they're relationship hasn't developed enough, but I certainly don't go around bashing on those people that DO like NaruHina XD
I just don't like the ones that think that because Hinata confessed, it suddenly makes NaruHina canon
Some people do really just need to get a grip.
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That's not why Naruhina is canon.
Naruhina is canon because the real Kishi is tied up in my basement.
Hey, we should rename is Hinaru, that makes way more sense.
In all seriousness you're right, but you know what my favorite ship is?
The friend-ship.
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Hinaru TRUFAX XDDD
awwww
who's friendship?
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