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Xlavok In reply to Xlavok [2018-10-29 16:07:32 +0000 UTC]

Like if there's a worse case scenario judging where this mentality often leads to, Dracula could might as well be the author of vampirekind's own extinction if you know what I mean because his actions is adding more fuel to the fire that's already there.

Well if Vampires *really* wanted to be monsters well successful ones that is then they should take notes from Cryptids, creepypasta and /nosleep monsters like Slenderman for example or even folkloric monsters but nope Vampires have a habit of flaunting themselves due to their arrogance (or sometimes they are *truly* misunderstood) that usually gets themselves killed hence they end up being victims of genocide by the end of the night hence making them technically the *worst* example of a monster if you're going with that definition that is especially in the face of much worse horrors that lurk in the darkness...

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Libra1010 In reply to Xlavok [2018-10-29 21:17:19 +0000 UTC]

 Strictly speaking Cryptids benefit from being physically monstrous but no more malignant than the average wild creature - Vampires, by contrast, given their consuming need for blood and the strong possibility that their condition is akin to a Demonic Possession (all but explicitly stated to be the case where Stoker's vampires are concerned) have a somewhat harder time passing themselves off as harmless local legends.

 Especially when those vampires were murderously nasty sorts even BEFORE their transfiguration, as is very much the case with Count Dracula.

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Xlavok In reply to Libra1010 [2018-10-29 21:49:01 +0000 UTC]

I highly doubt that Vampires well especially Stoker's kind are 'demonically possessed' in the same fashion as the Deadites from Evil Dead or Buffy Vampires but more like Dracula himself achieved immortality via the Scholomance and I think anyone he turns become his thralls from what I can understand but their human souls are still there though especially in most stories the thralls turn back human when Dracula is killed.

Yes, Dracula was a brutal tyrant with a hero complex before he turned himself into a Vampire no doubt about that and whilst Carmilla is just your average teenage girl born into nobility who got turned who is now in constant conflict between her sexuality of being a lesbian and her need for blood at the same time which is why she comes off as predatory by those who are rubbing her the wrong way as if no one has taught her to balance between the two hence if there's any deaths on her part it's because it's rather accidental that she got carried away with her passions and bloodlust combined before coming into realization in horror of what she had done before being chased off and hunted down by those seeing her as a monster which is what she probably spent her centuries doing for my best guess (if you ever heard about the Personal Horror theme since it might describe Carmilla's situation to a T) unlike Ruthven who actually has outright murderous intent who actually revels in his bloodlust especially he's driven by misogyny who probably was a complete scumbag before he became a vampire.

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Libra1010 In reply to Xlavok [2018-10-29 22:19:51 +0000 UTC]

 Anyone based on Lord Byron certainly can't be all THAT loveable to start with ... although this just begs the question of whether Lord Ruthven writes poetry or not (and also what that poetry would read like if he were to do so!).

I highly doubt that Vampires well especially Stoker's kind are 'demonically possessed' in the same fashion as the Deadites from Evil Dead or Buffy Vampires but more like Dracula himself achieved immortality via the Scholomance and I think anyone he turns become his thralls from what I can understand but their human souls are still there though especially in most stories the thralls turn back human when Dracula is killed. 
 Well strictly speaking if the Human soul is imprisoned but the corpse is still walking around attacking people then SOMETHING is keeping it moving (and causes such a noticeable change in the personality, as with Miss Lucy); the book also mentions that at the Scholomance "The Devil claims the tenth scholar as his due" and while it's not explicitly stated that Count Dracula was #10 in his year, it's not impossible that this should be the case.

 I should have been a little more equivocal about Demonic Possession being a serious possibility for, rather than the explicit cause of, Stoker-type Vampires but I think there's at least some evidence for it in the text. 


 Carmilla is just your average teenage girl born into nobility who got turned who is now in constant conflict between her sexuality of being a lesbian and her need for blood at the same time which is why she comes off as predatory by those who are rubbing her the wrong way as if no one has taught her to balance between the two hence if there's any deaths on her part it's because it's rather accidental that she got carried away with her passions and bloodlust combined before coming into realization in horror of what she had done before being chased off and hunted down by those seeing her as a monster which is what she probably spent her centuries doing for my best guess
 That's one perfectly plausible interpretation of the character; on the other hand it seems odd to refer to a cycle of infiltration-seduction-exsanguination that has been going on for over a century (and for which the character has conjured up her own, somewhat half-hearted, justifications) as "Accidental" although having said that Countess Karnstein remains more sympathetic than many vampires in fiction.

 There is a strong sense that she perceives the whole business as a Beautiful Tragedy - though whether he victims, being dead long before their time, would agree is an interesting question - and, at least to my eyes, there seems to be one or two hints that the Countess does her best to live as though existence were only a dream or a daydream ... and fiercely resents being reminded of Hard Reality (with the scene where she disrupts a Funeral Procession being especially interesting in light of that theory - does she resent Miss Laura's attention being distracted by her or does the Vampire hate being reminded of the Tragedy she inflicts for the sake of an immortal existence?).

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Xlavok In reply to Libra1010 [2018-10-30 10:05:18 +0000 UTC]

Then again, we really don't know what Carmilla has been actually doing between the events of the original novel and Undeath (or how she ended up in New York at all) but lets just say that by the looks of things she's probably been through alot of tragedy and time hasn't been too kind to her hence why she's in a sad state (she might be suffering from depression) which allowed Dracula to easily recruit her (in contrast to Ruvthen who showed resistance in the beginning) by offering bunch of promises that sound too good to be true and currently Carmilla looks up to Dracula being the "light in the tunnel" to be finally free of the depression she's going through...if not the "light" turns out to be a headlights of a rushing freight train...

As for the Scholomence, of course the so called "Devil" at the scholomence may not be *THE* Devil himself but rather a Pre-Christian Pagan Romanian deity that Christianity calls the "Devil" as I remember reading this: www.jasoncolavito.com/scholoma…

Of course the Thralls that Dracula turns are simply slavish to him hence the personality change because he's a "Master still" as if they're extensions of him.

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Libra1010 In reply to Xlavok [2018-10-31 14:58:06 +0000 UTC]

 As for the Scholomence, of course the so called "Devil" at the scholomence may not be *THE* Devil himself but rather a Pre-Christian Pagan Romanian deity that Christianity calls the "Devil" as I remember reading this: www.jasoncolavito.com/scholoma…
 In terms of Real Life scholarship this is a perfectly fair point; in terms of Dracula by Bram Stoker the Count and ALL his kind, in all their Supernatural Glory & Terror, would appear to be held at bay by the Cross and other items of Christian Spiritual Power to the point where at least one (admittedly the rawest and most new of all the Vampires we see in novel, the late Lucy Westenra) outright flees from those Symbols - they also appear to draw power from not just the simple soil of their Homeland but from earth gathered from desecrated graves.

 I'd suggest that these a very, Very strong indications that - so far as Mr Stoker is concerned - Vampires have more of The Devil in them than any sort of Pagan Deity (well, that and the fact Mr Stoker deliberately gave his Great Vampire a name he believed to mean "Devil"*).

 *Twice, in fact - let us remember that Stoker actually has the Count use the alias "De Ville" in London, since Dracula apparently has a rather nasty sense of Humour and Mr Stoker apparently has a love of Awful Puns equal to my own!


 Then again, we really don't know what Carmilla has been actually doing between the events of the original novel and Undeath (or how she ended up in New York at all) but lets just say that by the looks of things she's probably been through alot of tragedy and time hasn't been too kind to her hence why she's in a sad state (she might be suffering from depression) which allowed Dracula to easily recruit her (in contrast to Ruvthen who showed resistance in the beginning) by offering bunch of promises that sound too good to be true and currently Carmilla looks up to Dracula being the "light in the tunnel" to be finally free of the depression she's going through...if not the "light" turns out to be a headlights of a rushing freight train...
 Either that or the classic Torches & Pitchfork-wielding mob lighting its own way! As for the current mental state of the Countess Karnstein I would not care to speculate; this is, after all, a character whom I have only become more properly acquainted with this very year and, given she appears to have survived the events of her original novella (or just received a Hammer Horror-like revival), Spearhafoc appears to have come up with a unique take which one would not like to second guess.

 By the way, HAPPY HALLOWEEN to you! 


 

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Xlavok In reply to Libra1010 [2018-10-31 15:18:19 +0000 UTC]

I guess for now it's best for on let the story unfold itself from this point on since maybe I said too much but hopefully not too many though.

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