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#finalfantasyvii #tifa
Published: 2019-08-08 06:36:56 +0000 UTC; Views: 184052; Favourites: 7258; Downloads: 0
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haha. true.... fucking sad, but true. still I expected better portrait of Tifa from someone as talented as Wlop. And much closer to original.
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You can (still) draw women however you want, i.e. wlop can draw them however they want to. But maybe you should think about what it means that you find realistic women boring.
Anyway, I think there's nothing boring about this art, it looks absolutely amazing.
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First, I'm to make clear my previous comment was essentially a troll-answer to a troll-comment and as such, not to be taken so seriously.
Second, if you want to know my opinion about this topic, I do not find realistic women boring. However I'm pissed off by the minority of radfem who rises shitstorm whenever artists draw sexualized women these days ; there is a difference between imaginary character in art and true person in life and anybody with a functional brain can make it, so I can't stand the falacious arguments "It promotes false image of the woman" and the censorship it carries. Hence the (maybe too heavy) sarcasm.
Third, if you still want a piece of my mind, although Tifa has been designed and is usually portrayed with larger breast I find this piece of art beautiful.
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To your third point: Conversely, do you think it is bad then when an artist downsizes the bust of a female character? (or the other way around for that matter, which happens a lot as well)
Your second point is quite fallacious itself, especially your Scotsman argument about people with functional brains, because that's simply not how it works. When a large percentage of popular fictional characters are portrayed with features that are exaggerated compared to the human average, it subconsciously influences people to think it's supposed to be normal, which is a very oversimplified but straightforward explanation of the phenomenon. The argument people tend to bring up of "any well-reasoned person knows it to be untrue" (again, implying that if you disagree, you're unreasonable or your brain doesn't function properly) simply doesn't account for the subconscious, which is how art (as well as non-fictional media) works to shape people's view of the world.
This has also nothing to do with censorship, so slow down. Read a book and try again.
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Define "bad".
Do you mean the art ? It depends on the result.
Do you mean "morally" ? Usually, I do not approve when an artist uses the work of someone else and do not respect his/her vision* - and let's face it, Tifa, since Tetsuya Nemura's earlier concept-art, was designed with a notable bust - but it doesn't prevent me from enjoying it.
So as I say, this piece we are talking about here is beautiful but as a factual observation, you can't deny it takes liberties with the original work.
* : speaking in general, not especially about the boobs...
Aaah, how easy to blame subconscious ! Since we barely understand its ways and certainly do not control it, we can use it as we see fit in arguments. Sorry but I don't buy it. According to such logic, we should stop almost any art depicting undesirable things, since it could "influence people to think it's supposed to be normal" - this is where censorship kicks in, be it official or, worse in this era, social (-networks).
I prefer to believe in human's capability to differentiate art and reality - that's what I mean when I talk about functional brain. Almost everybody has seen numerous movies with explicit violence, be it about historical wars or fictional universe (from Full metal jacket to Star wars) and civilization has not been torn by audiences turned psychopaths ; those who act in such ways indeed exist but are exceptions and the art was a catalyst, not the root.
TLDR : IMO, responsible adults have sufficient awareness to not let irrealistic art shape their world and those who think the contrary and try to limit artistic freedom are censors.
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Although I don't completely agree with you on what fan art should or shouldn't do, I don't see any disrespect to the original artist's "vision", unless you actually believe her exact bust size (which in this painting is still by no means small: even pretty much the same as Tifa's original artwork; although not the 3D model) is somehow integral to the character's design.
I'm not "blaming" the subconscious (nothing easy about using it in arguments either), just trying to explain to you why people have a problem with the images art can promote. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's bullshit. And if you think art isn't supposed to shape the world, you clearly don't understand art either (though I do concede that the nature of art is a complex and disputed subject). I've never said certain "undesirable things", as you call them, shouldn't be shown. A balance would be nice however. "Art" that only serves desire is pornography. And I do understand that people just like to see large breasts (I sometimes do too), but don't act all victimised and hide behind things like "censorship". You obviously have some odd ideas about what that word means. "Social censorship" isn't a thing, and complaining about things like "political correctness" is just an excuse people use to act like a victim when they're being called out on being an asshole.
And there you go again with your "responsible adults", implying that if they do [let it shape their world], they're not responsible people so it's on the individual, and you can still pretend to have been right when your argument doesn't hold up (since you appear to be a fan of logic and rationalism: that's called a No true Scotsman fallacy and is bad reasoning).
Besides, this might be the most telling thing you've said showing you don't understand the whole point: It's not (only) about adults. Children play videogames and watch cartoons, and childhood especially is when these things they see shape their worldview. Since the subconscious plays a large part in this, they're mostly unaware of it by the time they're adults with "fully functional brains" (which isn't to say adults aren't also subject to this).
(In the preceding paragraph you also make a lot of assumptions about what people have or have not seen; you base your argument on your "preferred beliefs" which aren't relevant if they're ignorant - wilfully or otherwise; and seem to imply roots are bad but catalysts can't be blamed, all of which is iffy, but that isn't directly the point.)
Libraries upon libraries have been filled about these subjects (art; the subconscious; culture; sociology), which is why I don't expect to change your opinion in a comment like this, especially if you think you already understand it all.
I hope you grow. Good luck.
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This is less about respect than fidelity, I’d say. And yes, in Tifa’s case, her bust is integral to her design – I didn’t say characterization – as shown in her 3D model you mention yourself : that’s what gets the eyes first.
Even her concept-art lacks others notable features in regard to the rest of the characters : Cloud has his BFS on his shoulder, Barett his arm / machine-gun, Yuffie her giant shuriken and her left arm protected by this gauntlet-thing… I could go through the entire roster but I think you get the point : the only defining feature Tifa displays, especialy when you compare her to Yuffie or Aerith whose bust are « normal »… is her prominent chest.
""Art" that only serves desire is pornography." It is my turn to ask if you do understand the meaning of the worlds you’re using… Do you narrow desire to carnal desire ? Is nudity or eroticism pornography, no matter the absence of explicit intercourse ?
Anyway, I’m fine with pornography but I’m well aware it may not be your case and I think we’ve yet digress a lot from the original point, so I won’t enter a debate about the soundness of pornography.
I do not act victimised.
First because I’m not an artist myself and am not personally concerned with this phenomenom so I’m not whining upon personal experience.
Second, victimisation implies exaggeration and / or lack of perspective, yet I’ve seen precisely what I’m talking about (hysterical charge of misogyny, etc.) happens to artist whose sole fault was to draw sexualized women.
You may refuse to call it censorship, but when the profiles (Facebook, Twitter, etc.) of an artist and the comments of his / her work are vandalized and flooded without regard for his / her explanations or attempts to discuss with critics, destroying his / her reputation and spirit, putting him / her off the open… s/he’s silenced just as well as by law, less the court. Social censorship DOES exist in this connected-era, especially for people whose occupation prohibits them to keep at bay social-networks. Political correctness may be used as an excuse by assholes, it doesn’t make it less real.
There you go again with that accusation of Scotsman argument, ignoring my clarification. I’ll try to tidy up : when I talk about "having a functional brain" and "not letting art shape their view of the world" [yes, some words went missing in my previous comment, my bad], I’m not trying to distinguish deserving from undeserving people (typical use of No true Scotsman…, hence the naming). I’m telling you how I see humanity.
As you guessed, I strongly believe in logic, reason and such things ; most notably in human free-will and willpower. Of course our subconscious do influence us but we can always refuse to give in its drives. When someone commits a felony (let’s say, to keep in touch with our topic, rape), it is his / her responsability because it is s/he who considered, decided and carried out the act ; not the movie s/he watched last night or the painting s/he saw last week, unless a certified expert tell the court s/he can’t differentiate between reality and imaginary – in wich case s/he is not a "responsible adult" and treated accordingly.*
That’s what I’m talking about : there is a standard we (and our legal system) can expect from the others. Those who can’t keep up with it are exceptions and as such, irrelevants to discuss general considerations.
* : so yes, I consider catalysts can’t be blamed since the choice to act or to not act is ultimately on the person.
It may surprise you but I agree with your point about the children. From the beginning, I assumed we were talking about adults – as illustrated in my phrase "responsible adult". You can’t expect from an immature and growing mind the same ability you ask an adult. That’s why I think it’s important to see to regulate what children have access to according to age and surround them in their cultural life – not to keep them away but teach them the difference between virtual and real.
"you also make a lot of assumptions about what people have or have not seen" Funny you denounce "a lot of assumptions" when I see only one - "Almost everybody has seen numerous movies with explicit violence". Well, if it matters that much to you, I confess I didn’t make a survey according to the rule book before claiming this. But I’m pretty sure there are still civilized states and we do not live in a Mad Max world, so I’ll stand to my assertion about audiences not turning into psychopaths after watching movies including battle scenes, despite the lack of academic evidence.
As for changing my opinion, until now this discussion contains nothing new to me so I don’t expect you to put up something mind-shattering on my side, sorry. On the other hand, neither do I expect to convince you : according to your way of speaking and dissecting / naming things, I suspect you’re anchored in some commited circles and I know by experience those are unwavering in their own beliefs.
Finally, I must react to your condescending tone. I do read and received an university education, thank you very much and your (repeated) invitation to go get books, not to mention your final « I hope you grow. », are especially irritant where I do my best to stay courteous and debate honestly without resorting to ad hominem arguments. I’d appreciate you pay me back in kind.
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"maybe you should think about what it means that you find realistic women boring."
this
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I am in love with this (as I am with most of your work), and it is beautiful.
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