Menno2 In reply to BathedInSin [2014-01-16 05:14:46 +0000 UTC]

i enjoy your artwork. and our debates.

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BathedInSin In reply to Menno2 [2014-01-16 20:51:03 +0000 UTC]

I like that you never resorted to saying i'm stupid or a bitch. XD I get that a lot if I dare disagree with someone.
Not that I was disagreeing with you or anything because honestly I have to agree with your stance on the previous issue.
Add to that- I did completely understand your POV, the crazy hyperstylized stuff leads people to think that image is "perfect"...
(Though I have seen some nasty photography and they seem to think that's 'perfection' too....majority disagrees I fear... lol)

But I digress, I like your professionalism and candor. You're fun to talk to, especially because you aren't mean.

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Menno2 In reply to BathedInSin [2014-01-16 22:48:31 +0000 UTC]

i dont often see someone who can hold their own in an argument with solid facts instead of resorting to semantics or swearing. it was nice.

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BathedInSin In reply to Menno2 [2014-01-16 22:54:38 +0000 UTC]

My favorite rebuttal is when someone tells me "Because it's fact!" when it's something entirely opinion-based. If something is subjective no one's right and no one's wrong there's no such thing as "fact" there lol.

I once had a guy see a post I made, and assumed my Username meant I was like a hardcore atheist and told me "God exists, it's a fact and the bible proves it!" And then told me about all of the tortures I would endure in hell and added "you're probably gay and f--- your cousins too" then blocked me. Just...what? I didn't even have a chance to respond, because you know, blocked. That always grinds my gears. 

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Menno2 In reply to BathedInSin [2014-01-17 09:20:15 +0000 UTC]

would you at least agree that subjectivity can be warped beyond all reasonable measures?

because i've seen my fair share of shops, im good at finding them and i know its a shop. texture, shade, depth is all off, and it just gets to me that its really everywhere, even here, in a place of art.

i just...was personally offended by the photo. if you want honesty, thats it.

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BathedInSin In reply to Menno2 [2014-01-18 22:46:35 +0000 UTC]

I can agree with that, yes. And I agree, in a place of art to see so much of it is disheartening. But speaking as someone who is low on the scale of "great photo manipulators" I gotta say some of them do a decent job with it, i'm sure most people can't tell their stuff is shopped at all. It takes a keen eye, really. To be honest when I see photos on here I expect it to be shopped. everyone wants the "best" photo they can so of course they'll clone stamp here, and blur touch there. Adjust lighting that way and color balance this way. I don't think a huge majority of the images here are untouched completely. Maybe it's because i'm cynical or maybe i'm being pragmatic. Who knows.

But I can't stress enough if it's too obviously a shop job it completely distracts from the image and you (in my experience) lose all faith that what you're seeing has much in the way of truth/believability. If I can see it, you have to be pretty bad at it, truth be known.

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Menno2 In reply to BathedInSin [2014-01-18 23:23:03 +0000 UTC]

yeah but its those small touches that, accumulated over time, end up giving out an image of manufactured beauty that is just barely beyond human scope. this is what makes people(mainly women) check themselves and their bodies and their makeup every 30 seconds. this is why for the first time in the history of ever, there is actually a disorder where you can be addicted to plastic surgery.

theres those who go too far: Justin Jedlica and Valeria Lukyanova being prime examples. branded the "human barbie and ken", you can instantly see where their problem comes from: an unhealthy self image.

it happens to men too. body dysmorphia is extremely common amongst bodybuilders and weight trainers. why? because every mr olympia competition and action movie features guys like arnold, stallone, statham, terry crews, all incredibly bulky and made so through cgi, tons of makeup and definition tanning and surgery and photoshop. which of course leads men to steroids, abdomen and pec implants, or over-exercising, all the while living with the idea that they're ugly, or not good enough.

i just think altering PHOTOS is unhealthy. if its like, marvel or dc, or like a painting, ok fine. i get it. they're superheros, blah blah blah, make them as muscular or curvy as you want, fine. or like rembrandt or caravaggio depicting angels and gods and such, fine. at least its CLEAR that its fabricated, that they're supernatural beings.

but if its a photo, it kind of hits close to home. its kind of saying "look, this is what ideal beauty looks like for humans".

those small touches, the undetectable ones, are the ones that gradually move the image of beauty beyond realistic expectations, and society(largely unable to detect these alterations) gradually follows. its not just this one photo, its the saturation of those photos everywhere.

take a look at this: www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06…

images of perfectly beautiful celebrities, altered and "touched up". even that phrase, "touched up", insinuates flaws in them. even then, when they have the genetics necessary, and have worked as hard as humanly possible to become as beautiful as can be, they're "touched up". they're (by definition) "enhanced". it just strikes me as ridiculous and unfair to the massive majority of people who can never reach that impossible level, as well as unfair to the celebrities who are pretty much being told that they just arent good enough "as is" for the magazine cover. even the best looking people in the world, by natural standards, are digitally manipulated. 

people see that, they feel less good about themselves and sometimes take extreme measures to correct that. anorexia, bulimia, surgery addiction, even illegal procedures like this poor woman: 

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/artic…

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BathedInSin In reply to Menno2 [2014-01-19 00:02:52 +0000 UTC]

(sorry in advance for super long reply)


YES Oh man thank you. Justin and Valeria are scary and so surreal. They seriously creep me out. No lie. Though I agree negative self-image may be the cause for many it wasn't for her. She did that stuff to her body on purpose- like lady gaga and her meat dress. It was just for attention like she is getting. There's a user here on DA that got like tripleO breast implants and she corsets herself. You should check her out she is immensely proud of herself and she claims she “did it for herself, not from bad self image but to enhance what god already gave her”... or something to that effect.

Steroids are less than 'a good idea' so are a lot of enhancement drugs. Anyone telling you otherwise is either selling you something or they're a bad doctor.

”but if its a photo, it kind of hits close to home. its kind of saying "look, this is what ideal beauty looks like for humans".”  Yah I see where you're going with that. I see how you can feel that way. I try not to look at it that way because I feel like it would destroy all beauty for me. When I took film classes as part of my art degree suddenly that 'spark'  that 'magic' you feel was dead because I was thinking “oh nice use of pan out there” or “god I wonder how they did that scene without any cg” instead of “damn the superheroes are losing oh no how will they bounce back!” It completely took me out of the story and killed that passion I had for a lot of films. If I think too hard about how photoshopped all the photos are it makes me sad and hateful, and that spark goes away. So you may be right but I personally am not ready to admit it yet.

Wrestlers need to stay at a certain weight consistently throughout their career and they go nuts to maintain it. Celebs have to do the same thing and the moment they lapse it's like a disaster. Oh god she gained 10 pounds because that's SOOO abnormal. Normal people never gain 10 pounds! Gasp!  I agree this is insane. I do. God if I had to spend 6 of my 24 hours a day doing intense crazy workouts and having to count and watch every single thing I put in my mouth day in and day out I would die... And those truly HORRIBLE moments where you “god I would murder someone for a slice of cake...but I cannot eat that way too many calories.” Even when all you really ate that day was substitute eggs (real ones, way too many calories) water (cant drink tea, it may have calories!) sugar-free granola bar (sugar makes you gain weight so bad!) and a plate of veggies (but not too many) because god forbid you go above 1200 calories that day. It means an extra hour on that treadmill every day for the next week and you STILL feel guilty.  I say this because I have been there and done it myself and if you keep it up for too long you end up just killing yourself and it is not worth it. But when you see a hot guy across the room and your first thought is “he is way out of my league, i'm a size 10 and he is a ten!” That's way past the time you need to reevaluate yourself and your priorities.  

people see that, they feel less good about themselves and sometimes take extreme measures to correct that. anorexia, bulimia, surgery addiction, even illegal procedures like this poor woman
OK 1) that image and story is nasty in a terrible way.  2) I know how those kinds of images encourage unrealistic beauty and unattainable fantasy. Hell, if I had a magic wand that could give me * Scarlett Johanson's * body dimensions- hell yes sign me up. She's thin and curvy and has a nice rack. Do I have the ability to get down (or up) to those measurements? No. Not without surgery. Oh my bad, no, surgeries, plural.

My hips are too wide to ever be less than like size 8 (I was a size 6 once when I was 112 pounds- underweight I might add. But to be fair that was entirely healthy I was working overnight unloading trucks and stocking for 8 hours, and unloading and stocking magazines and periodicals during the day for about 6 hours ¾ days a week) but it's the smallest I ever was and probably ever could be and I still thought I was fat and I could lose more if I just changed my eating habits or something. (I was in a bad place that year) Size 8 and 112 pounds- seriously explain that to me lol...

Makeup is easy- anyone can learn to do it and apply it. I choose not to wear it hardly ever because I think makeup makes people look bad or gaudy or fake or really stupid. A little mascara and maybe eyeliner is hotter than green eyeshadow and limp plumper and thickening mascara and different liners and blush and concealer and coverup and lip liner and the copious amounts of other shit on their faces. Then it melts or fades and they look like they're coming off a bender...and that is nasty to me. I think makeups much better in sparse amounts. If and I do mean IF I wear any it's slight and 98% of times no one notices anyway. Hahaha so I dont necessarily think magazines sell that, per se. But the overall body image and shape and size- yes. “You are nothing if you aren't 34, 24, 38.” and it's all about attaining that. In magazines I totally understand why they do it, and it is wrong, but it is sort of how this society works. We're all narrow minded in that respect because we're conditioned to be so. The age old phrase “sex sells”.  But to be honest i'm just as disgusted by artists altering photos to make the models look fatter- they're selling their own brand to the world, as I am with those who make their models thinner. They both are portraying their tastes. And one is no more right than the other. Both of them suck because the message, as you said, is clear. You aren't ok the way you are.

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Menno2 In reply to BathedInSin [2014-01-19 09:32:31 +0000 UTC]

“did it for herself, not from bad self image but to enhance what god already gave her... or something to that effect."

thats just it though, she wanted to “enhance”, as if she wasnt perfect just the way she was.

kinda sad no?

Steroids are less than 'a good idea' so are a lot of enhancement drugs. Anyone telling you otherwise is either selling you something or they're a bad doctor. 

agreed. but the pressure is on men just as much as women. we just dont talk about it because we dont as a group see this preoccupation with physique as troublesome(even though we should).

I try not to look at it that way because I feel like it would destroy all beauty for me. When I took film classes as part of my art degree suddenly that 'spark'  that 'magic' you feel was dead because I was thinking “oh nice use of pan out there” or “god I wonder how they did that scene without any cg” instead of “damn the superheroes are losing oh no how will they bounce back!” It completely took me out of the story and killed that passion I had for a lot of films. If I think too hard about how photoshopped all the photos are it makes me sad and hateful, and that spark goes away. So you may be right but I personally am not ready to admit it yet. 

well it does taint the kind of fantasy image of “this is beauty and something to aspire to”. but i dont mind that; if you’re going to preoccupy yourself with your image and beauty, its conceit. which is fine, nothing wrong with exploring the more vulgar sides of humanity. narcissism, gluttony, etc. vanity is a sin, simple as that. i wont judge someone for their preoccupation with beauty so long as they acknowledge it for what it is. it is not a good, pure thing to do to put on makeup and do your hair and nails, no matter how it’s painted. those are human fabrications for no other reason than vanity.

personally, seeing it for the grotesque thing it is, is kind of satisfying. like setting things on fire or breaking a vase. theres a release, a kind of moment of "fuck it" where you're like "look at that sexy fucker, i wanna rub myself all over him", or a guy will go "shit look at that ass". fine, its cool, we're animals. but the whole part where we pretend its something positive, i dont agree with. its ugly and gross and if we're gonna face it we should just admit it. nothing wrong with that, people do bad things because it feels good all the time: smoking, drinking, drugs, pot, driving too fast. when you look at someones beauty in such a superficial way, its objectification. which is fine; do it if you must! but see that its gross and it feels good(like sex).

“But when you see a hot guy across the room and your first thought is “he is way out of my league, i'm a size 10 and he is a ten!” That's way past the time you need to reevaluate yourself and your priorities.”

ok, examine why you’d think that. you say “he’s out of my league”, but I hear “i’m not good looking enough to get a man like that”. this is a horrible thing, and for the most part a lie. not to mention the fact that if the guy is that preoccupied with beauty that he’d turn down the chance of meeting someone new and making a friend, do you really wanna be dating someone like that? this is the dark side of exploring vanity.

of course your answer i immediately "no, who would wanna date a jerk?" but lets be serious...you're not interested in dating when you look at that guy :3 its that objectification i was talking about. again, its fine, but lets not pretend its so cute and cuddly lol. its humans being grotesque, is what it is. 

so you “reevaluate your priorities”. meaning what? now you have to go do a bunch of stuff to fit that image of beauty to gain that guy's approval? i think its bullshit.

call me a cynic.

“Hell, if I had a magic wand that could give me * Scarlett Johanson's * body dimensions- hell yes sign me up. She's thin and curvy and has a nice rack. Do I have the ability to get down (or up) to those measurements? No. Not without surgery.”

yes but even scarlet johanssen is photoshopped constantly. even HER proportions are not “good enough” for these photographers and magazine editors.

“ In magazines I totally understand why they do it, and it is wrong, but it is sort of how this society works.”

we make it work that way by accepting these images given to us, on tv and movies and magazines and music videos. on photographs too.

i dont personally buy it. dont get me wrong, i can admire the human form if its well exercised or a certain height or weight or color or proportion. thats all fine and well, but i also recognize that the admiration is just sin: lust. a desire to touch that, to have that, to be near that. envy. to want to be that, to become that “beauty”. its that gross objectification/self objectification i was talking about. not cute and cuddly, not something good and positive. its gross and dark and indulgent, which is fine...so long as you admit that and are ok with that.

i dont mind that. i accept that. im no christian, i sin a lot. but my point is, people dont see it as morally wrong, this utter preoccupation with beauty. its kind of horrible, and it ousts a large chunk of people who dont “measure up”. even our kids learn it now at a young age: 

“dont hang out with the fat kid/pimply kid/kid with the harelip/wheelchair kid.”

its a basic reaction from them because they see something different from the standard of beauty taught to them, the way people “should” look, and they recoil from it.

my first stance is if you’re gonna paint or draw some woman with unreal proportions, make it obvious.

superheroes. angels. vampires. whatever. let people know its unattainable and that they’re looking at something beyond reality. but dont trick the public. dont feed them a slightly altered image followed by another one that was slightly altered again. because people’s expectations also get altered that way without their knowing or consent, until their expectations are beyond reality too.

my second stance is, if you’re gonna go practice vanity in front of the mirror or at the gym or under the knife, dont feed into that as if it were a good thing or an “improvement”. its not. its a sign of something terrible underneath. looks should not be held up to any importance at all. people should be judged by the content of their character, not the way they look. i firmly believe in not judging a book by its cover, and anytime someone puts on makeup or gets surgery or works out* is only making their “cover” look better for either themselves or others. it should not even be a factor. humans are the only animal who practices such a horrible thing. you never see lions or bears interacting or mating or fighting based on how they look.**

and my final stance is, anyone who decides that the way someone looks is the main factor in deciding whether they’re gonna meet you and get to know you, should die in a fire.

*(with the intention of looking better, if its for health its understandable)

**(the only exception is size, but a small bear that sees a bigger bear doesnt go “eww look that bear is fat”. a small bear recognizes that a big bear can fight better, and treads cautiously. this is the fight or flight response, theres no judgement of aesthetics involved.)

and by the by, you're cute. that is all.

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BathedInSin In reply to Menno2 [2014-01-20 00:28:03 +0000 UTC]

Enhance was the wrong word. As Underbust pointed out it was more akin to “augmentation” that was my bad.

I agree with the steroid thing. I wish guys would be more open about their feelings/fears etc. As long as they're not insane emo cry babies- nobody enjoys those kinds of people male or fem.

It may be vanity but if done in moderation it can be appealing. Vanity or not, I don't see much harm. ”When you look at someones beauty in such a superficial way, its objectification. which is fine; do it if you must! but see that its gross and it feels good(like sex). Ehhh I don't necessarily agree here. I don't think it's terribly harmful if done in a conservative fashion or it isn't crucially important, a necessity, just a mild desire.

I agree with your scenario and yah I do not wanna be involved with a person like that. But to some degree we're all like that. We all judge and there will be times when someone shows you interest and you may rather run for the hills than give them 10 minutes alone with you. And maybe some people look at a hot person of opposite or same gender and think sexual dirty thoughts, even the best of us may have a moment of that, but my first thought when I see anyone is not sexual. Well it may be rooted in sexuality- duh attraction- but it's not animalistic and raw or dirty. I think (in the case of someone that's not unappealing) “I like his hair, it's cute that way. I wonder what he'd look like with long hair.. hehe. I like how he's dressed.. Oh man I love how he pronounces that word it was so funny. He's pretty funny I like his sense of humor.” and then the copious amounts of overanalyzing everything because that's a major issue with my brain. Once I get to know a guy better I start thinking “I wonder what sex would be like” and I start making up millions of hypotheticals up. But not in a “mmm thats hot” kind of way more like a “I wonder if hed do this or that or like this or that” and I usually end up giggling because even if im alone I embarrass myself.

I cant speak for others but yah I have self esteem issues. I was bullied a lot in school since as young as 1st grade. I was a chubby kid, I have a terribly easy to mock last name, I wasnt a girly girl... I had a lot of pressure from all around so I push myself to succeed at anything I undergo. I determine “I will get an A in this course” and I do what I can to achieve it. I say “I want a job doing ---” and I work at it to get it. Nothing is just given to you and your physical attributes are a double edged sword. You can control weight- to some degree. You can control skin and hair color. You can control other elements through surgery etc.

“yes but even scarlet johanssen is photoshopped constantly. even HER proportions are not “good enough” for these photographers and magazine editors.”  It's true and it's sad. She's wonderfully shaped naturally.

“i can admire the human form....its that gross objectification/self objectification i was talking about. not cute and cuddly, not something good and positive. its gross and dark and indulgent, which is fine...so long as you admit that and are ok with that.”   To some degree perhaps. But it is not always. I have the ability to look at a person and say “this person is attractive/not bad looking” and not have any sexual desire or even thought and definitely not want to be them or possess what they have obtained physically or otherwise. Not everyone is so dark... heh I do believe that

Kids nowadays I don't even. Some kids have big hearts and they're not that shallow minded. But the number of people who are not like this far outweigh... And kids are usually cruel and mean. I think no matter what that's inescapable. I'm not making excuses by a long shot, they can be assholes. And it is absolutely terrible and sad. But all you can do is raise your own kids right and hope they take in good values.

Yes the vanity aspect makes the outside look good. But people should do what makes them feel good not what society might and I think the desire to please others is the ugly part. I mean we need to do some things to conform we can't live life completely on the outs. If I want to get a job as a lawyer I can't go into the interview in torn jeans and sandals and having not bathed for the last month. Its unrealistic to expect otherwise. That does not mean you NEED to wear makeup or get a boobjob to get that job, but you dress appropriately and practically so you seem like a reasonable fit in some capacity.

I hate to disagree with the animal analogy it's probably not the best way to go. Peacocks use their prettiness to get laid, lions and elks and deer and moose and a variety of other animals battle over a mate. Many birds especially do weird mating dances and do make themselves fancier/prettier for a mate. And if they aren't pretty enough they don't find a mate. I can understand the desire to be attractive to anyone. We are a visual-book cover based society. Not saying it's right but it's true. A lot of people are shallow. I judge the character before making any choices, and even when I know their character is worth shit I still associate with them until it gets to the point Ive had enough and then I drop it. I give people a lot of chances to really let me down.
“And my final stance is, anyone who decides that the way someone looks is the main factor in deciding whether they’re gonna meet you and get to know you, should die in a fire.” I laughed so hard at this, so blunt and to the point. Hahaha. I agree and that's all I can say.

And by the by, thank you very much. That made me happy.I would comment on you, but I havent found a photo of you so all I can say I enjoy our discussions and your enlightening point of view

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Menno2 In reply to BathedInSin [2014-01-20 02:53:14 +0000 UTC]

you're right by the way, done in moderation it can be appealing. everyone enjoys being a bit bad, to break from the monotony of being good all the time, i myself included.

thats why i draw my characters distorted too. i dont mind a little of it. but i wouldnt alter a photo. cant bring myself to do that.

and i meant it, you are very pretty. if that gym asshole disagrees he can fuck off.

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BathedInSin In reply to Menno2 [2014-01-20 17:33:00 +0000 UTC]

I like the distortion of your characters. It adds personality.

Stroke my ego, yessss... stroke it so good! You are a charmer

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Menno2 In reply to BathedInSin [2014-01-21 01:35:24 +0000 UTC]

lol 

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BathedInSin In reply to Menno2 [2014-01-21 02:25:48 +0000 UTC]

Also ill respond to the long one tomorrow, Ive been running around like a nut today and my brain is just dead

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Menno2 In reply to BathedInSin [2014-01-20 02:50:27 +0000 UTC]

well, peacock feathers only point to the peacocks fertility and stance as a mate. the beauty in and of itself means nothing from an aesthetic perspective. its only a sigh that says "good mating partner".

aesthetics and art are a human fabrication. there are no animal-made cave paintings. the bird dances only show agility and flight strength, again for mating purposes.

but look at humans and what we value: bigger breasts, a sign of fertility. a good hip-waist ratio, another sign of fertility. height and skintone and even the size of the eye, all things that signal a woman's fertility.

and for men: height and musculature, skintone, even the way they smell and their jawlines, all signals of masculinity. in the jungle they would be the better protector and hunter, and therefore the best mate.

but this isnt true for us anymore, our technology has risen us out of that. we now have breast IMPLANTS which simulate and "augment" fertility. a woman born with smaller breasts is just less fertile, science proves this. but why does this mean that the woman has less value? why did we decide that its a problem? and why did we decide that breast implants is a good way to solve that? or face implants for higher cheekbones(another mating sign), or botox or eyelid surgery or butt implants....its to simulate this subconscious biological importance.

but we put a nice cover on it. when men see big tits we get aroused, but we SAY its because she "looks good". what we're not saying is "i percieve a very fertile woman I'd like to have sex with". who's to say a woman with smaller breasts cant be just as naturally beautiful? why do we differentiate between women of the hourglass persuasion and women who lack that figure?

it all comes down to sex, thats why the porn industry is worth 20 times any photography, magazine, or movie industry. the market is saturated with it, so is the internet. "here is a woman with these proportions, we have decided these proportions and these features are of optimal quality for breeding purposes but we wont say it like that. we'll say they're sexy, we'll call them starlets, and we'll market them the same way beer and cars are marketed: appealing to the stereotypical image of the 'male' so that they will buy our product. we will show this woman performing sexual acts, which appeals to a man's physicality, which he will interpret as a reaction to beauty, not to mating quality. the reason he will interpret it that way is because we have presented it in such a way."

and the movies and music videos and magazines: "here are women and men. we need not present them performing sexual acts because that image is already embedded in the minds of the public. instead, we will sexualize them. we will make them objects of desire and images of beauty to aspire to. with this mantle, we will gain a customer base, which is why our movies rake in billions of dollars a year. we do not care about the age of our celebrities: even dakota fanning has already done a blowjob scene in a movie. we only care about money."

by the way you've already seen me. my profile pic is a pic of me(albeit a bit distorted). ill upload a pic soon.

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BathedInSin In reply to Menno2 [2014-01-21 18:50:01 +0000 UTC]

I must defy the rules then lol. I hate “built” or super muscular guys. I like average to chubby. Good hygiene is crucial and a sense of humor is also important. Haha physically I don't really have a “type” per se. As long as i'm not repulsed i'm good lol.

I have smaller boobs but I am here to tell you the women in my family are UBERfertile. We have a joke that our mates just have  to look at us and think about sex and boom we're pregnant. I also have rather large hips, as I mentioned previously. Even at my skinniest I was still a size 8. It was all hips.

I'm not a fan of implants of any kind. I also have an irrational fear of them popping or bursting or... anything of that ilk.. Ehhhhh shivers.

I'll be honest, I enjoy big boobs as much as the next guy, but I dont like fake and I lose a modicum of respect when/if I find out they are fake. Unless it's 'I had cancer and got a mastectomy” kind of thing. but we put a nice cover on it. when men see big tits we get aroused, but we SAY its because she "looks good".  Also I know a lot of guys that go for smaller boobs. Many I know also state “gotta be real or no go” and to them I say Kudos! I like natural, it's more beautiful even if it doesnt conform to 'perfection'

Porn. Yah. Aint that the truth. Guys confuse 'attraction' though with 'I want that act done to me'. In many cases if sex is on the table it's “ill take it!” even if an hour before he was telling his friends the girl is OK, not hot. Yah every guy wants to be able to say he screwed Angelina Jolie, or Scarlett Johanson, or Natalie Portman (yadda yadda) but if it's getting laid by average or not getting laid because average...you know what typically gets picked. I cant speak for all men.... but in my experiences sex with hotter women is a huge temptation...that is usually given into.

“...performing sexual acts because that image is already embedded in the minds of the public. instead, we will sexualize them. we will make them objects of desire and images of beauty to aspire to. with this mantle, we will gain a customer base, which is why our movies rake in billions of dollars a year. Yes. This is true. I see your point.

”Dakota fanning has already done a blowjob scene in a movie. we only care about money." Woah woah woah.... what movie was that?!? That is insanely weird!!!

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Menno2 In reply to BathedInSin [2014-01-22 02:18:02 +0000 UTC]

im not saying the girls of the smaller breasted persuasion arent fertile, its just shown that they have higher successful birth rates(as opposed to babies dying during childbirth or early childhood). usually they're the ones who are born on time, the numbers show this. and you're right, the hips are everything. it allows for an easier process, so to speak.

which of course is why the hip-to-waist ratio is also seen as very important nowadays, and also why we've distorted that beyond recognition as well. google "elias chatzoudis" to see what I mean. not exactly photography, but still unreal proportions.

i just wish we could go back to the days of peter paul rubens, when the "rubenesque" figure was seen as attractive and was highly regarded for its health and natural beauty and fertility. i hate that we've distorted our art and by extension ourselves, and just say its "aesthetics" or "art". its bullshit is what it is.

also, the film is called "The Motel Life" I believe.

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BathedInSin In reply to Menno2 [2014-01-22 02:32:49 +0000 UTC]

All of his figures look exactly the same. It's so...boring. Great style overall, but that framing is.. . subpar?

We may be seeing a shift in the opposite direction eventually. Fads do circulate historically speaking.
I also like the older works, but some of the 'chub' on them is bordering on the fat side (only in some occasions, not all)

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Menno2 In reply to BathedInSin [2014-01-22 03:08:06 +0000 UTC]

i mean the proportions. the waists and hip ratio is all distorted and like you said, repetitive. what kind of message does this send? (even if its clearly illustrative and not a photo). it says "look these women all have the same proportions, small waists and big hips to a precise measurement, and therefore they're all beautiful. im an artist and i say so, and it must be true because as an artist im in tune with what is aesthetically pleasing".

artists(and photographers) are given a certain trust in that respect, and some abuse it by sending bad messages.

now this guy, not really a big problem. as i said its a clear illustrative style and its cool artwork. but i've seen photographs altered to mimic these proportions. photographs.

can you just imagine?

as for the old stuff bordering on fat, so be it! doesnt mean they're not beautiful too <

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BathedInSin In reply to Menno2 [2014-01-22 03:19:31 +0000 UTC]

They have beauty, but some of it seems like a mockery to me. Maybe that's just my interpretation. Who knows.

and youre right, I like galleries with characters that have differing shape and structure. All stick or all curve gets boring.
And yah right like you can gather a team of 100 girls all living like a block away from one another that are all a size 0 and are that tan and tone and blonde...
and have 0% body fat.  LOLOLOL ok

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Menno2 In reply to BathedInSin [2014-01-22 03:36:45 +0000 UTC]

a mockery...never thought of it that way.

anyways those boring dime-a-dozen girls dont interest me. im a big guy, i need a girl who can keep up with me. nothing wrong with that <

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BathedInSin In reply to Menno2 [2014-01-22 04:39:10 +0000 UTC]

Keep up with you? Why are you a runner? baddum-tssss

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Menno2 In reply to BathedInSin [2014-01-22 06:27:38 +0000 UTC]

runner? I'm definitely strong, but idk about fast. :3 lol

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BathedInSin In reply to Menno2 [2014-01-22 16:33:09 +0000 UTC]

That's OK I run. I'm fast enough for two people

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underbust In reply to BathedInSin [2014-01-19 01:56:03 +0000 UTC]

Certainly not to enhance what "God" gave me. Just because I have fun with my body and am comfortable with who I am. I'm not scared that looking a certain way would dictate who I can be on the inside. (I'm an Atheist, so I do get annoyed when people say that exact sentence, but essentially you're right. Just, no. There is no God, so please stop saying I am the product of anything more than my genes and experiences.) 


”but if its a photo, it kind of hits close to home. its kind of saying "look, this is what ideal beauty looks like for humans".”
I also disagree that a photo means that it's an ideal for human beauty. I'd actually like a lot of photos of a very diverse range of body types and choices were heaps more common in photography. Not just women, every gender. To me, being more open about what paints the picture of humanity is just BETTER for us. It creates a healthier self image, and it let's us know that you don't have to look a certain way to be a happy person.

I know people often say "Everybody is beautiful." and that's true, because beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and if you exist, you're somebody's fetish. BUT more importantly: Beauty doesn't matter as much as we seem to think it does. Look the way you want and remember that it has little to no effect on who you are inside.

NOW: You seem to be talking about a person who's gotten surgery to make other people happy, or to fix something they view as broken...
I don't think that's healthy, and I spend a lot of time replying to notes sent to me by young women who hate themselves and want to look like me, and every time I tell them that they should gain a lot more self love before they consider editing their physical body, because that's just creating a new problem. But even if they do. Even if they go to extremes, like the way I look, whilst all the while hating themselves and being angry about people judging them... WHY DO YOU THINK BEING CRUEL OR JUDGEMENTAL IS OKAY??!!?!??! These people have been hurt by society so badly, they not only are unhappy with the way they look, they think they are UNACCEPTABLE. They legitimately think that the way they look is so horrendous the only option is to change it. Why would you be mean to those people? Show them compassion, understanding, love, and care. It will in the end, get a lot further than calling them names.

(BathedInSin I realise you are not doing any of these things, and are actually defending people's right to choose the way they look, but I was just adding my own perspective on to it, as someone who chooses to look extreme. You seem to have the concept down well, go you. Compassion A + + ) 

Sorry if my reply makes no sense. I didn't read your conversation, only this reply that I was mentioned in, so ignore me if I am just so far from what the conversation is about. 

Penny

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BathedInSin In reply to underbust [2014-01-19 02:21:18 +0000 UTC]

LOL Oh god you saw my comment! I feel honored I suppose? Ive known about you for a long time and while not publically saying much (Some of your fans are a little... not on par with who I want to associate with- no offense) I do happen to love your sunny spirit and consistently POSITIVE habits and speak. You have dealt with some real dicks, pardon the term, and you do it with grace and mature style and I seriously admire it. I give you loads of credit.

I apologize if the “god” comment was out of place I swear you said something of that ilk to a few people before (in perusing your comments). And I paraphrased more or less. No offense meant at all if any was taken. Granted going that large in the chest area is... astounding and crazy in its own way. My back could not support those pups, kudos to your muscle control.. lol. I happen to be an atheist more or less myself and when that word, the G word, comes up I tend to get a little flared myself. So I understand completely and no harm meant

Your comment on the photo quote a very much agree with. As I was saying in earlier conversations “The model/main subject reflects the ARTIST's preferences not the audiences” at least not in every case. When I stumble upon your images my first thought was not “dy modification choices mean I am flawed and in order to be as pretty as her I need to go get surgery like right now!”, no way. My thought was “DAYUM how does that woman support those? And I wonder if they're real.” So I read your front page and got my answer and I said I love how the corsetting gives that perfect hourglass, and the boobs make her look like a comic character. It's all so adorable. So no, the subject does not always lend itself to society’s views on 'perfection' or 'beauty'

”Beauty doesn't matter as much as we seem to think it does. Look the way you want and remember that it has little to no effect on who you are inside.” While I do agree mostly, if you don't like how you look how can you expect anyone else to like you? When I was at my worst I hated myself, mo body my shape my size etc and it showed in who I was. It changed me into someone bitter and cynical and it affected who I was on the inside. Sometimes the outside does give you a peek at what's inside. I hate admitting this aloud but one of my best friends- his vice is sloth. He is lazier than sloths. And it shows in his hygiene, his weight, his clothing, etc. He simply does not care and that reflects his personality perfectly. It's not always this way, and I know that. But there are some

I mentioned those people, yes. But people do all sorts to alter their appearances- surgery or no. Some people dress flashy, some use a lot of makeup, some do crazy stuff with their hair, some are insane about diet and exercise, etc. I did not just mean surgery-desiring folks. There's nothing wrong with adding some “enhancement” lets say? Especially if you feel good about it. If I go on a first date I feel “less  than myself” if I don't have mascara and earrings on. I got my ears pierced for a reason and my lashes seem to disappear when I dont wear anything, and I want my eyes to pop a little because they really are pretty. There's nothing wrong with adding something to enhance the overall aesthetic. In your case its your figure, your corsets only enhance what you have. Take it away and you're still you, you still have pleasing aesthetic but the corset makes it better than it was. Nothing detaches, only adds. That was essentially the point. I just used an extreme case to make the point!

Ill be honest. That last paragraph threw me. I was thinking “Oh no I havent done those things, have I???” But i'm glad you  see I don't. Being disrespectful accidentally is one thing, it happens to us all. But I try not to when possible because I don't want to be a bully. I dealt with that in my life, as you have too. Those people are life-sucking and I don't ever want to come off that way. I like to think I am openminded to a lot, though I know everyone judges whether we mean to or not. Human nature and all. I just don't judge in a harsh manner really. To each his own. You have the right to think/believe/feel whatever you want. You have the right to say what you think/feel/believe. However, you wouldnt like it if someone told you “Youre stupid because we disagree!” so why would you insult them that way? You give what you get. You can disagree but still be respectful and mature. That's what I strive for.  I'm glad to know your perspective, i'm surprised you even left a remark honestly. You have tons of admirers and messages i'm sure. XD  And thank you for your lovely words  

(PS in regards to that guy that hates your hair) I happen to love it pink and I absolutely ADORE the way you dye it and make it new and different. It's always varied and never old. I wish I could do that, I really do. I'd say don't let the fools get you down but you're amazingly strong in your own ways so it seems futile to say it haha

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underbust In reply to BathedInSin [2014-01-19 02:59:18 +0000 UTC]

I've never ever said God in that way. LOTS of other people have, but I've never said it. In fact, when people say it to me, I usually send them a note and say "Dude that makes me uncomfortable. Believe what you want but keep me out of it."
A lot of my fans aren't on par with who I want to associate with either, but they are fans, so I'm not exactly going to be mean. Still, I do lose a lot of fans by correcting negative statements. "YOU'RE WHAT REAL WOMEN LOOK LIKE." "No, that's stupid, stop insulting people." "I WAS JUST COMPLIMENTING YOU!" "No, you were just insulting other people." "WELL I'M NOT YOUR FAN NOW." "Okay." 

"if you don't like how you look how can you expect anyone else to like you?"
Easily. I have a lot of friends with severe mental issues who hate themselves. I've had friends who've tried to kill themselves, and I've had partners who eventually transitioned into the opposite gender... I still love them for who they are and I didn't expect them to be perfectly happy to deserve my love or attention.  

"There's nothing wrong with adding some “enhancement” lets say? Especially if you feel good about it."
I personally say augmentation. I personally find enhancement indicates that it improves on what you have, whilst I don't tell people they are wrong for using that term, particularly if it's about themselves, I use augmentation. Even for makeup. It's all an augmentation of reality. It's different, but that's all. 

"Being disrespectful accidentally is one thing"
Yeah, and we all do it. No matter how hard we try not to. The key is to know when to say "OH FUCK I'M SORRY." or "Hey, no, now you're being over sensitive." and hope that they have the same rational mind as you.  

"though I know everyone judges whether we mean to or not. Human nature and all."
Absolutely. I judge the crap out of people who are irresponsible pet owners, or those who go out of their way to be mean to others, or people who use religion as an excuse to support their shitty views. (If you're homophobic, admit it. Stop blaming it on an obsolete bible verse.) However, the second those people are willing to admit their mistakes, I will generally judge them very well. Someone who can acknowledge their own flaws is an awesome person. Still people, treat your pets well. Stop ignoring your dog, take him for a walk. You'd hate yourself if you were in his position. *this isn't aimed at anybody, but people do suck with pets.* 

What guy that hates my hair? God people love it or hate it. I honestly have no fucks left for that. I did when I was a kid, it mattered to me, but now, I'll just keep doing my thing, and people can like it or not. That's their awesome right as a homan.

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BathedInSin In reply to underbust [2014-01-19 03:28:47 +0000 UTC]

Haha ive seen comments like those. It takes all sorts I suppose.

I understand what you mean, but sometimes if you hate yourself you take it out on others and then its harder for people to love you- more so for new people in your life not the old ones. They're more likely to stick around for you and help you- if they're really your friends. Family too. But speaking from experience everyone has a breaking point

I think that's a better term. Augment. More accurate for sure. Gracias.

I'm first to say sorry if I think or realize i've been a jerk. We all have those PMS-days (so to speak) male or female. We wake up wrong side of the bed and that's just it haha. I've had several incidents where i'm like woah woah did it really come off that way? No no no I meant ----- so sorry for that! And we end up actually becoming friends from it. (A LOT of my DA friends actually, it's funny how things happen)

ok this  paragraph... yes.... all of this "Absolutely. I judge the crap out of people who are...” Is there any stronger word for “I agree so much” than just “omgyes”? Haha spot on! Those are my top-listers too! My own family members were some of those insano religious nuts. Every christmas “You need to accept the lord and savior Jesus Christ into your heart and soul, REPENT NOW!” and it drove me up a wall. You can believe it, you can do the baptisms in your pool and believe whatever the heck you want to... but dont come into my house and tell me i'm satan's minion because I don't subscribe to your 'man in robe sitting on a cloud playing chess with humans' theory. Sorry. Not my cup of holy tea.

I'm a dog groomer and you'd be appalled by some of the things I see come in and out of our shop. Matting so bad the skin bleeds, nails so long they grow and cut into the pads of the feet, rotting teeth, excrement stuck in fur (obviously far too long) that ends up rashing their rear ends/frontal parts.... It's deplorable. Absolutely terrible some of what we've seen. If you're curious I have photos we took of an emaciated dalmation that was brought it. It was sickening. People do suck with pets, yah they're worse than just that. They're cruel.

And about the hair, I dunno his name but it was one comment you replied to and you were like “DUDE enough! I don't care that you hate it I like and it and i'm gonna do MY OWN hair like I want to!” I just cracked up. It was one of the only  'angry' posts ive seen from you. I love it and I hope it doesn't stop changing XD

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underbust In reply to BathedInSin [2014-01-19 06:24:59 +0000 UTC]

I have a corgi, and a cat. They are both incredibly well behaved and well loved. It makes me very sad when I see people who have these animals they took in for whatever reasons, then just ignoring or mistreating them. I can't understand how irresponsible some people can be. 

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BathedInSin In reply to underbust [2014-01-19 23:44:54 +0000 UTC]

Ohhh I didnt know you had a corgi. I want to get one, they're my favorite dog breed. I'm jealous.

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Menno2 In reply to Avionetca [2013-11-11 18:11:10 +0000 UTC]

Hidden by Owner

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Avionetca In reply to Menno2 [2013-11-14 16:09:02 +0000 UTC]

Hidden by Owner

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Menno2 In reply to Avionetca [2013-11-14 23:27:17 +0000 UTC]

lol yeah but its kind of obvious i would watch you :3 you're very talented

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Menno2 In reply to Buttlas [2013-04-01 19:45:07 +0000 UTC]

awww thanks lol <3

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Menno2 In reply to Pearin [2011-09-04 05:40:53 +0000 UTC]

o.o

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Pearin In reply to Menno2 [2011-09-04 05:51:05 +0000 UTC]

I liek Icons.
And I love your art btw.
;D

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Menno2 In reply to AlexFromThere [2009-11-14 06:35:12 +0000 UTC]

why thank you good gentleman.

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