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Published: 2011-11-22 05:26:07 +0000 UTC; Views: 5307; Favourites: 162; Downloads: 34
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"You have used me."Related content
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Right on Janach. Completely agree with everything you said. And you know, after the kind of life Snape had it probably would have really been hard for him to feel empathy with other people (His own parents didn't seem to care about him much, not counting everyone else, why would he care about others?), let alone like you said JAMES. James tried to have Snape killed, I hardly think with all the bitterness and pain inside of Snape and his personality in general that he would give a crap if James was killed by The Dark Lord. Snape would have probably been watching with a bucket of popcorn and a smirk on his face as James got Avada Kedavra'd.
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It was Sirius who tried to have Snape killed, but I give James no credit for "nobly" saving Snape's life. He was saving his own mates from disaster. I don't blame him for wanting to save his pals rather than Snivellus, any more than I blame Severus for caring more about saving Lily than saving James, but Severus didn't need to accept a "life debt" because if it. The whole "life debt" business was just a red herring, anyway, to let Harry keep on thinking his father was a hero instead of a bully.
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Oh yeah, I forgot it was Sirius and James saved him. x__x That's what I get for replying to comments too early in the morning.
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Yeah! I cannot agree more! And made me think that Dumbledore had a very bad memory...after all, it was mostly HIS fault his sister died, right? And I we think better, who's the one who use the cursed ring out of pure power greed?? The man was a very bad guy!
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If Dumbledore had had an ounce of compassion, he would have comforted Severus (who was hysterical with grief) by telling him about Ariana β- about how he himself had contributed to the death of his innocent sister, and was dedicating his entire life to atoning for it.
βNow itβs your turn, Severus. You CAN atone for what youβve done, as I have done, and am still doing, with my life. But itβs never over. It didnβt end for me when I defeated Grindelwald, and it wonβt end when Voldemort is finally defeated, for either of us. It will end only when we meet those we wronged in another world, and they forgive us.β
A Dumbledore who did that would be a Dumbledore worth admiring.
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That would have been an AWESOME scene to read.
But I also think that Dumbledore didn't know how genuine Snape's "repentance" was. He helped destroy and kill people, furthering Voldemort's cause, and then just because it happens to someone he cares about, he is suddenly upset and wants to switch sides. That's how Dumbledore would have seen it - and how did he know Snape wouldn't change his mind back again?
It wasn't covered in the books, but I like to think that they developed a closer understanding once it became clear that Snape was truly horrified by what he'd done and 100% on the other side now.
I also agree with what ~pythiadelphi said about Dumbledore never really forgiving himself.
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thank you, I agree with you as I have written in the last post. J.K. Rowling planed to made the father figure Albus Dumbledore more humanely. A statement like janachs idea would have been great - but would look like the "old Dumbledore". I think Rowling has missed her goal, because after "The Prince's Tale" many poeple seem not only to see dark spots on Dumbledore, but see him dark all around - and Snape has not only light spots, but is white all around.But I think the whole deepness of the characters you will only get when you read the six books before - and not only "The Prince's tale"!
I also think, that Dumbledore once came to a deeper understandig sometime after this scene. In every scene when harry sets snapes loyality in quesion it's dumbledore who is talking of a "great mistake" oder "the greatest pain of his life". I think in that scene where their cooperation starts dumbledore is overpowered by his own feelings to have the mind for his typical wise words. He is still in the "you disgust me" (he has lost good friends and snape still doesn't care about harry - the child of the woman he "pretend" to love). Sure - he is missing compassion, but not because Dumbledore misses compassion in general, it's because he is realy realy angry at this moment and yes he slaps Snape - however he gives him a chance, too.
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I agree. I think it would be unrealistic for Dumbledore to have reacted any differently than he had - at least initially. His anger is totally understandable given that he neither knows nor likes Snape (except as 'another Death Eater') and has no reason to think that the "repentance" is genuine - or, indeed, necessarily based on love at all.
When, years later, Dumbledore sees his Patronus is still a doe, he softens and says, "Even after all this time?" Snape is more dedicated to Lily than he (Albus) would ever have imagined at this initial meeting.
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yes - for Dumbledore at this moment after lily's death Snape is just a man like barthy crouch jr. I think you shouldn't forget this. Given the information at the scene on the hill their first meeting seems to be in octobre (flying leaves, wind, it's cold...) Lily and James was only protected a week until wormtail went to voldemort. So, when snape breaks down in dumbledore's office snape has worked as a spy for DD only for a few weeks (mabe not more than two!) Under this circustances it's understandable why DD is that harsh to him. Nevertheless he gives him a chance - a job, a home, his word at the court - without knowing when voldemort will return and if snape will keep his promise, just believing in something good deep inside him. And when the time had come and volemort is returning to his full strength, DD doesn't say "severus you know what you have to do, you gave me your word", he says "and you are tempted to join him?" like a "if you want to join karkaroff, feel free to do it".
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One would think that someone who believes love to be the greatest power of all would not see Severus's love for Lily to be inadequate motivation, but somehow Dumbledore does. So does JKR, I suspect. If you're not doing something for the sake of a noble abstraction, you're not truly virtuous. Of course the purebloods think they're doing something for the sake of a noble abstraction, too, but that doesn't count.
I would like to believe that Dumbledore grew to respect Snape, but considering the way he delighted in humiliating Snape for Harry's sake, and how he forced Snape to work blind even after Dumbles's own death, I don't that it ever happened. Severus was never an ally, only a tool.
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I said understand, not respect. I think Dumbledore was too far removed from most people to offer much respect. He did have some respect for Severus' courage, at the least, though.
You have a good point about the love thing. But there were a lot of Death Eaters who didn't realise what they were letting themselves in for and their "repentance" was only fear or cowardice when they realised what their situation was. I'm suggesting that Dumbledore did not have enough information at that point to see whether Snape was genuine about his repentance or whether he was just frightened now he saw what Voldemort could do.
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I think learning that something you thought was going to be a road to success and an ideal world is turning out to be a road to oppression and terror is an excellent reason to repent and change course. Add in fear for the safety of loved ones and you have a pretty good set of motivations, to my mind. But Dumbledore has his own standards, many of which seem to be based on the choice of an enchanted Hat when one is eleven years old.
You're right about Dumbles thinking he's pretty much above everyone else -- so much so that he couldn't even pretend to respect Snape, even though he knows that respect is what Snape wants most of all. Snape wouldn't be such a tyrant of a teacher if he weren't so desperate for respect.
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many of which seem to be based on the choice of an enchanted Hat when one is eleven years old
When saying that Snape is far braver than Karkaroff, Dumbledore says "Sometimes I think we sort too early."
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Which I see as a profound insult to Slytherin House and its Head. As if only Gryffies can be brave!
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I don't think only Griffs can be brave; but I think that if it is their strongest trait then according to the books that's where they should go (wtf Pettigrew was doing there I have no idea). Having said that, the guidelines for sorting are blurry at best. G & R have a decent definition/guideline, but S just seems created because JKR wanted to have an "evil" house and as for Hufflepuff they basically just get whoever's left over.
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The failure to develop a slightly more nuanced view than "Gryff=Good, Slyth=Bad" is one of the weaknesses of the series, I think. House of Heroes versus House of Villains was perfect for the first book, but I would have expected the dichotomy to break down eventually as Harry grew up. Even in Book Seven, Dumbledore can think of no way to praise Severus except by implying he should have been a Gryffindor. It doesn't occur to him to say something along the lines of: "Courage has never been exclusive to Gryffindor House." The anti-Slyth prejudice is so deep Dumbles doesn't even realize he's being insulting. Sometimes I wonder if JKR does.
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Yes, it would have been nice for that to have broken down. I found it quite hard to believe that none of the Slytherins stayed behind for the final battle. It just seemed unrealistic. They're not all "bad eggs".
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Again, I think the reason could never comfort or feel compassion for Severus was that he had never really forgiven himself. He seems to have projected his guilt and self-hatred onto Snape. Therefore, he cannot forgive Snape for doing something similar to a loved one.
That's my opinion at any rate. It makes sense froma psychological perspective. [I used to be a psychiatrist].
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Thank god I am not the only person that think thats... I, personally, think he is a douche overall. And I wanted to hit him when he did that! He only does think he think will advantage him, and really only thought of himself... I mean, the only reason he had Snape kill him was so Snape could gain the Dark Lords trust not to save one of his students, who was clearly having difficulties cooping with the tast, and it upsets me greatly. And haha well I have been in a composition class all month so editing has been all I have been doing and am sick of it lol...
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