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Baryonyx62 β German Tank prototypes
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Published: 2014-10-25 18:09:53 +0000 UTC; Views: 1370; Favourites: 34; Downloads: 6
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Description
Just a quick image of two prototypes I made with my 1:72 model tanks.The Hasegawa Panther Ausf. F Schmalturm fits the hull of Revell's Panzer IV H, and the Dragon Collectable Panther can take the Revell Pz IV H turret.
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Comments: 42
The Β weight of Schmalturm for Pz. IV must have been a heavy blow for it's suspension, decently hampering the offrad capabilities. But as Weapon platform looks formidable.
Very nice looking models,anyway
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Yup that's why the project was cancelled.
Thanks.
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Mounting the Panther Schmalturm with 75mm L/70 on the Panzer IV was tried, but the turret proved to be too heavy for the suspension so the project was cancelled.
The other way round, with Panzer IV H turret on Panther hull, IIRC was done to create a scout version of the Panther, but the turret ring of Panzer IV is smaller than the one of the Panther, so they had to fix the turret in place and used the few that were created mainly as command vehicles.
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Exactly, so it was tried, but no real prototype.
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The Second one, Panzer IV / VΒ existed.
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There were clearly more than one.
Some historical photos:
wikicdn.wargaming.net/images/3β¦ (along with Porsche Tiger)
wikicdn.wargaming.net/images/9β¦
wikicdn.wargaming.net/images/fβ¦
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I see only one in a placeβ¦
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As they were used as command tanks mainly it is of course not very likely to see them together.
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There was only one example, it was a field conversion
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What is your source on that?
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I dare to ask what your source is there was more than one
Due to the fact I've studied this kind of thing my entire life, and that it was a one-off field conversion, not a prototype
I don't have any real references to that, but a simple google will tell you...
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I am honest and tell you that my only source for there being more than one is the two different pictures I have shown a few comments earlier to the other guy.
I did try to do research on it but I cannot find any precise info, so a "simple google" didn't tell me anything.
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They are all the same vehicle
Notice how in each picture it's exactly the same
All the pictures show a Panzer IV Ausf.H/J turret on a Panther Ausf.D hull, turret straight forward (since the turret rings were different so it was welded) the gun is elevated to the same height in all the pictures, even the diver's hatch is opened to the same degree in all the pictures
It is the same vehicle
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The gun being elevated to the same height could be a coincidence since almost all tanks drove around with the guns up. Driver's hatch open can be a coincidence aswell, considering there is crew in the one picture and not in the other.
I tried to compare the camouflage paint but it is too blurry to be able to see any clear similarities, so this does not convince me.
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A simple google seach has yielded this quote
"it was a recovery Panther D fitted with the turret from an early Panzer IV H used by the 653rd in Silesia during mid/late 1944, the turret was fixed in place so the tank was employed in the same way as a stug which the unit was equipped with before getting the Elefant. The vehicle in front is as Marshal said one of the Tiger P tanks, it was supplied to the unit for use as a command vehicle and as far as I'm aware the only one to make it into active service."
so exactly what I said
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It still does not specifically say anything about this being the only one to exist. The way this is worded does not even specify that this conversion was done by the 653rd, just that they used it. The rest only speaks about the Tiger P, which I know was the only one to get into combat.
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alright whatever
I know the gun and hatch aren't very conclusive
but I don't care enough to go and prove you wrong
its still the same tank though
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But you seemed to care enough to write that initial comment? Strange.
For someone having "[...] studied this kind of thing my entire life [...]" (posted 22 hours ago) you appear pretty halfhearted.
I would have really enjoyed to read by myself a proof for your claim that only one existed so I could go and write that into my description here.
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Well I'm used to argueing with people that, for example, call Shermans 'Ronsons', or think that the "Krokodile" is real
Someone who thinks there was two Panzer V/IVs when there was only one doesn't really make me jump on it
I don't have any real proof, but neither do you
Whenever trying to find something about it, it always comes back to "world of tanks"
and sadly Jentz and Doyle to my knowledge have not gotten a Panzer IV book together
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Haha, now we can surely talk about history a lot more... Because I heard that shermans were called ronsons after a popular lighter company of that time because especially early shermans would light up very easily due to the kerosene fuel. The germans called it Tommy Cooker. What is wrong with that?
Yes, seems we are at a deadlock because no one can prove the other wrong.
I know that World of Tanks changed a lot in tank historiography as many take the provided info as accurate. I myself sometimes look up things in the WoT wiki but try to check up other sources too.
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I don't have anything to do with what wot says about history
they make up completely fictional vehicle
Early shermans did cook off a lot because of improper ammunition stowage
after the A2 I believe it was they were fitted with wet ammo racks so that didn't happen
People say that Germans called them Ronsons because they would "light every time", but the "Ronson, Lights every time" slogan was only used post war
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Hmm, if I remember correctly the ronson nickname came from the british... At least that was what it said where I read it, which I don't remember because it was some years ago when I started to get interested in tanks and ww2.
EDIT: EN Wikipedia says this too.
"[...] At first, a partial remedy to ammunition fires in the M4 was found by welding 1-inch-thick (25Β mm) appliquΓ© armor plates to the sponson sides over the ammunition stowage bins, though there was doubt that these had any effect. Later models moved ammunition stowage to the hull floor, with additional water jackets surrounding the main gun ammunition stowage. The practice, known as wet stowage, reduced the chance of fire after a hit to about 15%. [93] The Sherman gained grim nicknames like "Tommycooker" (by the Germans, who referred to British soldiers as "Tommies "; a tommy cooker was a World War I -era trench stove ). The British took to calling it the "Ronson ", after the lighter . [94] Fuel fires occasionally occurred, but such fires were far less common and less deadly than ammunition fires. [...]"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_Shermβ¦
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I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that quote
but Wikipedia is -the worst- possible 'source' for this kind of info
if you want to know about Shermans, look up books by RP Hunnicutt
and stay clear of anything Belton Cooper
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This was a prototype used as command tank, a Panther with a Panzer IV H turret. The turret was not fitting the Panther's turret ring however, so it was fixed in place which made it something like a TD.
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I'm guessing this is near the end of the war? they mostly created their most whacky creations in the final months lol
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As far as I know these appeared in Normandy around D-day. So yeah, somewhat near the end of the war.
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the second one looks very modern X3 i like both x3
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Second one is Panther with Pz IV H turret, used as command vehicle. But the turret did not fit the Panther turret ring so it was fixed in place.
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Modernized version the one on left ligawygonnabywce.deviantart.co⦠XD
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Hehee... Nice. Though in reality, the Panzer IV with Panther Ausf. F turret was cancelled because the suspension would be overloaded with it.
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Stronger springs and it gonna be OK. Tuning rule 8D
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