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MugoUrth In reply to ??? [2012-10-28 21:14:38 +0000 UTC]

People do realize that it's a joke, right?

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AvisCelox In reply to MugoUrth [2012-12-20 04:11:10 +0000 UTC]

Poe's Law.

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MugoUrth In reply to AvisCelox [2012-12-20 04:16:01 +0000 UTC]

I just find it sick how people can make "Meat is tasty murder" jokes and we're not allowed to get offended by it, but when a joke involving the death of humans is made, it's like "WHAT THE ****! YOU SICK BASTARD! YOU SHOULD DIE!"

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AvisCelox In reply to MugoUrth [2012-12-20 15:15:55 +0000 UTC]

True, but Poe's Law states that without a declaration of intent extremism is indistinguishable from a parody/joke. That's why I brought it up; it's hard to tell if the person is really joking. Believe me, I've seen people make far worse comments and mean them.

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Kjerya-Copenhapen In reply to MugoUrth [2012-10-30 08:22:44 +0000 UTC]

Guys, can I just take this moment to say:

'Everyone, in the name of Leo Tolstoy, calm the fuck down?'

Okay, gotta make this quick, because I need to be at Uni soon - I can see what Mugo and Yerdo are trying to say here - I dislike hunting as much as the next animal rights advocate, but I think this stamp was only played for laughs a little, it isn't mean't to be taken all that seriously. I can see what Sulfide is trying to say even if I strongly disgaree with most of what he says most of the time: drinking and driving is dangerous, and you could argue that a drunk hunter could end up unintentionally killing an animal because of drunk driving, I CAN see the logic in that.

Now what I am annoyed about is this: I do feel insecure, often hated and shunned for being an animal advocate, pesco-veggie and Pagan. I do feel like a misunderstood person, especially when much of the time, I feel scared to be honest about my ideas because of people being offended and rallying up a 'BURN THE WITCH!!!' crusade against me. Maybe I am being paranoid, I have no idea, but this has been constantly bugging me for a while - I'm always afraid of offending somebody by saying something in favour of wolves or veganism and then being hounded out for it. I constantly worry about what people will think of me for who I am, and my life is constantly governed by fear because of it. All I ask is that even if I am an animal lover, pro-wolf person and Pagan, that I'm not hated for it. In fact, I am pro-human rights and pro-animal rights. What Mugo is trying to say here is that we animal lovers are often jumped on and misunderstood unnecessarily. We aren't evil for who we are, we just have a different perspective on animals, that's all. Please, chaps, before this gets any worse, let's just take the time to think about this - I really don't want to see anybody here on a nice art website getting killed or bullied over something which isn't worth it.

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Galaxu In reply to Kjerya-Copenhapen [2012-10-30 13:00:39 +0000 UTC]

... I am so jealous of your writing. I couldn't have said it better and I agree 100%. Some people are acting like defending the bullfighter is right while defending the helpless bull is wrong. It's like the opposite world in those peoples' mind and it creeps me out. I stand up for animals instead of the animal killers becáuse they are the true victims. I also can't see how this stamp equals wanting all humans dead, because it doesn't.

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Kjerya-Copenhapen In reply to Galaxu [2012-10-30 13:45:46 +0000 UTC]

Well, yes, like you said - the animal is often the victim here, and I think it's time we realized that an animal doesn't deserve to be treated that way. What good does it do, and why does it need to be done? It's just painful to think of an animal suffering like that for no true reason other than a sadistic pleasure. We can't justify cruelty all the time with the superiority argument - it just doesn't seem right. I do see animals as the victims here, and I think those who destroy the life of another animal for no true reason should be disciplined one way or another. I don't agree with killing anything, as I feel hate only breeds hate. Perhaps these animal killers at least need to be taught a lesson somehow, but I disagree with killing them.

I just think it's downright horrible to consider killing an animal a 'sport', as it were. Killing should only be done if there's no other alternative, and the idea of hurting somebody out of entertainment is just awful, in my opinion. Like you said, usually animals are the victims, and I think we should stick up for the victims, no regardless of who they are. Whether somebody can reason or speak is irrelevant when it comes to these kinds of debates - humans and nonhumans are still capable of suffering and pain. I wouldn't kill a child and call it a sport, so I won't do it to another animal. That's just me. I agree that humans are probably one of the cruelest species, but that's not to say that all of us humans are evil, we have the potential to kind and compassionate, but it's up to us to choose whether we do bad or good. You, me and Mugo are all human beings who share something in common, and I generally think that on the whole, we are kind-hearted people who are very concerned. It's just the idea of destroying the lives of other animals for no other reason than pleasure which I can't sympathize with, and truth be told, for many reasons, I can't help to see myself in the animals when I watch them suffer. It's almost as if their pain is my pain also, I know that seems uncanny, but I just can't help to empathize with them that way, and from an early age I always have.

Okay, maybe I am a little naive and childish when it comes to things like this. I don't hate Sulfo or Cyn for their views, but all I ask is that I am allowed to love animals and follow my heart and head - I have my reasons to love animals just as much as anybody else does. I just wish all of us didn't have to fight like this, it hurts me to think that great people like ourselves, who are all adults are fighting like this all the time; even if we can't always agree, at least we can just accerpt each other as people. I'm just sick of being afraid of being honest about my feelings. I really want everyone here to be safe - we don't have to agree with each other, I just don't want to see fuel being added to the fire, if you get what I mean.

I hope my love of animals doesn't offend anyone, but as much as I want to speak out, I'm always scared and unconfident. Maybe I am a weakling after all, I don't know. I just have no idea how to solve these problems by myself. I'm just constantly upset about it all the time, and sometimes I feel like I'm being attacked for what I say and what I do. But I assure everyone, I'm not an evil person just because I want the best for animals. I'm not evil because I hate hunting or dislike the modern meat industry. I just really hate seeing other animals and people suffer needlessly.

But thank you for the compliment. I have been told many a time that my writing is brilliant, I just think I lack the self-esteem most of the time.

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MugoUrth In reply to Kjerya-Copenhapen [2012-10-30 21:35:41 +0000 UTC]

I really admire your peaceful ways. I don't think anyone could see you as evil.

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Galaxu In reply to MugoUrth [2012-11-02 16:21:16 +0000 UTC]

I agree.

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Kjerya-Copenhapen In reply to MugoUrth [2012-10-31 10:10:25 +0000 UTC]

Well, thank you very much!

I'm glad that you find me a nice person. I just don't want people to hate me over my love of animals or the natural world, that's all, and I don't like seeing my friends being bullied or harassed over their love of animals, either. You and Galaxu are both great people who have given me a lot of confidence as an animal lover, and I feel that I can trust you both. I'm disgusted by the fact that you and Galaxu have been attacked over your beliefs when you really don't mean any harm. I really don't see what any of us have done to deserve being bullied over our love of animals.

I just wish that people would be more accepting of us - none of us are evil, violent people just for being animal rights advocates, and I do not condone suffering or violence towards the innocent. I'm sick of watching my friends get hated just for what they follow, and I'm sick of being scared to stand up for my friends, myself and the animals I love. I don't want to have my lips sealed shut or my hands tied behind my back anymore. I want to be able to defend the people and animals I love without being hated or destroyed for it. I've seen so many awful things said about Yerdee, and I was afraid to do anything about it lest I get hurt as well. I was appalled by the fact that somebody harassed you over your animal stamps. Why are we the bad guys all of a sudden? Are we less than human just because we are unlike other humans who do not love animals? Are we so wrong for what we do?

I just wish people would open their minds and hearts and stop the hate, killing and violence. I want all animals and humans alike to be happy without having to suffer for no real reason. I am fully aware that death is part of life, and that sometimes it is impossible to live a life that is 100% death and cruelty-free. But even if we can't completely abolish needless death and suffering, we can at least do our very, very best to minimize it and reduce it as much as we can, because if we choose to do nothing, then no positive progress or change will be made, and the world would fall apart if we chose to sit back and ignore the fact that reform needs to take place.

It's up to us to figure out the problems and try and solve them. We can choose to be kind or unkind. We just need to all think and open our hearts and minds a little, and the journey of a thousand miles will begin once we choose to take that step. We have a long way to go and a lot to do, but only we can start when we decide.
If we choose to fight over things like this and hurt each other over it, then nothing but suffering will come out of it.

I don't mean to sound preachy, and I would hate to think of my self as self-righteous, but I'm only trying to make things better, and I don't want people to get hurt or attacked over their love of animals anymore. I hate to see the people I love suffer, and I hate to see the animals that I love suffer also. I just wish that people would leave you and Yerdee alone and stop being so cruel simply because they disagree with you. We are not evil for not eating meat, opposing recreational hunting or showing concern for the natural world. We do not want all humans to die for what they have done. What we want is change, and we want others to be happy without violence.

I'm just so sorry that all of these awful things have been happening to my animal-loving friends, you and Yerdo included.

'Can our society really get any lower when people are being insulted for defending animals?'

- DevilKue

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Galaxu In reply to Kjerya-Copenhapen [2012-11-02 16:21:08 +0000 UTC]

Every time you write, it looks like beautiful poetry! Ever though about publishing a book?

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Galaxu In reply to Kjerya-Copenhapen [2012-10-30 16:22:55 +0000 UTC]

What disturbs me is that some animal killers claim that their animal-cruelty is needed while people can in fact live without it or that they pretend that animals hunting animals is the same as people mass-producing and mass-killing animals. I am disgusted by people who use the "inferior" argument all the time as an excuse to hurt animals or treat them like products or tools for humans. Or people who mistreat animals and deny it's animal-cruelty like "as long as violence towards animals works in my favour, it's not animal cruelty". It's disgusting. And then you still have the "it is natural" excuse... while first; there's nothing natural about mass-producing animals in a factory/lab to an unnatural amount for human goals or mass-hunting animals like products for human goals with unnatural weapons and vehicles that completely leaves all prey chanceless. And second; humans can't hide behind the natural excuse anymore to defend animal cruelty. Because we are out of balance. We also can't hide behind that excuse to justify other natural behaviour like killing fellow-humans or rape... so we don't have the right to make an exception for animal-cruelty either. Humans are not what they used to be anymore; we're way too out of balance to justify any type of massive violence, unlike other animals. That's why humans are the only species who need to apply changes... we are out of balance.

I agree that not all humans should be lumped together. Especially not since the number of people who open their eyes to the cruelty we commit is rising every day. I understand what you mean when you say that it feels like the animals pain is like your pain. I feel that way, too. I don't feel sorry for the animal-killer, but for the animal because, even though animal killers try guilt tripping you all the time, fact is that the animal is the real victim here; not the people. If animals were truly useless products made to serve as slaves and tools for humanity, no one would defend them... and a rising number of people do. Not to mention that humans are animals, mortals, whose only goal is to live for themselves, like any other animal, and nothing more. Everything we are "better" at are only things to make our own lives better. But some people created the idea in their head that humans are gods among animals just because they're human themselves. Some are even so obsessed with their anti-animal view that they even go out and deny scientific facts like the human overpopulation, humans being the main reason of global warming and other bad things about our species. That they supported pain and death upon animals was already bad enough, but... do they have to lie about our own species, too? I just don't understand that.

And yes, it's like :devilkue: said... can society get any lower if people are being insulted for defending animals? I mean, no offense, but... I'd understand if we would be targeted for hurting animals, but being attacked for defending animals? That doesn't make any sense. These animal-haters go really far. You know who I'm talking about when I talk about my stalker, who hates me to death for defending animals, lies about me constantly and took it so far that I had no other choice but to sue her. I know other people who love animals too but are afraid that the animal haters target them. It's almost like certain animal haters consider us a threat to their flawed logic and biased information they spread about animals, that they want to do everything to bully us and attack us until we either leave the community or agree with them that animals are products. Whenever people say something that is against their views or when people show evidence of the opposite of their arguments, they are all at that persons' throat, like they're trying to force him to "shut up and know his place!"
While their arguments don't change the fact that people are animals too and non-human animals have a beating heart, a brain, feelings, emotions etc. and therefore aren't products. The animal haters who define everyone as evil who considers animals of equal value to humans or love their pet more than human strangers are just hypocritical. They're looking down upon animals for the same reason why we looked down upon people of another nationality, skin colour, sex or sexual orientation; "They are not like us!" They deny animals every right, claiming that they don't deserve any because rights are unnatural and therefore would only be meant for humans... while they do want to drag animals into their unnatual human-lifestyles by mistreating them on great scale. I see that most animal haters are also part of cyber-abuse sites and usually slander their animal-loving victims with either lies or twisted versions of the truth.

I've always received countless notes and e-mails of people who encourage me and look up to me for standing up for animals. And most of them also admitted that they feel the same way, but that they are trying to "keep a low profile" because they're afraid of the animal haters.

Some time ago, a guy in my country put up a Pro-Bullfighting group and he was attacked from all sides and hated by many people and I totally understand why. This guy supported hurting the innocent and that was the very reason why people hated him; for hurting and killing support. But people who defend animals do this to defend the victims, so attacking them just doesn't make any sense. It's funny how these pro-animal cruelty people laugh at the death of an innocent animal or person while they get totally upset when it happens to a violent person who kills animals. It's almost like they live in the opposite world. I usually say "agree to disagree" but when it comes to animal-cruelty, agreeing to disagree isn't going to stop the cruelty. That's why I decided to speak for animals with my stamps and artwork. I might be a small bug compared to the big other animal organizations, but the fact that many other people got a change of heart thanks to my stamps or art makes me feel like I saved a few more animal lives.

I think your way of wording things is very good and there is nothing wrong with it, like some animal haters claim. Yours is so much better than my own. You're not a weakling. You're one of the few true animal lovers on this community who has the guts to speak for the innocent. And I think that your way is way more convincing than my own because you control your emotions way better than I do. I never hurt anybody who hasn't done anything wrong. But whenever I see injustice, wether it be against innocent people or animals, I just wish the offenders exactly the same fate as they do to their victims. I envy you for keeping your cool in those kind of cases, no matter how much it hurts you to see the innocent suffer. It's not weird or wrong to stand up for animals; all you do is protecting those who are enslaved or mistreated by peoples' selfishness and greed. I once used to be a humanaboo too who supported hunting, modern meat farms etc. But I changed because I realized that I was no better than the guy who tried to ruin my childhood just because I wasn't white like himself.

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GaussianCat In reply to MugoUrth [2012-10-30 00:31:08 +0000 UTC]

Whether this stamp would be an attempt of a joke or not, there are some fuckwits that actually support what this stamp says.

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MugoUrth In reply to GaussianCat [2012-10-30 00:35:00 +0000 UTC]

I can tell you I am not one of them.

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GaussianCat In reply to MugoUrth [2012-10-30 00:38:01 +0000 UTC]

I assumed you aren't ^^.

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Galaxu In reply to MugoUrth [2012-10-29 09:58:15 +0000 UTC]

Some probably don't. It's funny because those people joke about killing animals all the time, but when the joke is the opposite they feel offended, even if it's a joke.

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fenrirhound In reply to MugoUrth [2012-10-29 00:44:45 +0000 UTC]

They do, but it's just as funny to hunters, like me, as those "Meat is tasty murder" jokes are to you. Personally I don't like the idea of someone telling me to drive drunk, but if you think it's funny I hope you're having a riot

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MugoUrth In reply to fenrirhound [2012-10-29 13:08:56 +0000 UTC]

I don't think it's funny. I am just not taking it as seriously as some are. I'll admit, though. "Meat is tasty murder," jokes really drive me bonkers.

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fenrirhound In reply to MugoUrth [2012-10-29 20:31:11 +0000 UTC]

I'm surprised a certain someone is so in agreement with this stamp, considering she just made a stamp about how telling people to kill themselves isn't funny. I guess she deserves to be the hilarious hypocrite.

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MugoUrth In reply to fenrirhound [2012-10-29 20:46:25 +0000 UTC]

Basically... to explain it a little better. She's not laughing at the joke itself, but at the people who think it's funny to make jokes about dead animals, but get all up in arms about something like this. Get it now?

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sulfide In reply to MugoUrth [2012-10-29 21:40:59 +0000 UTC]

Yes. Typical animal rights extremists. Advocating breaking laws and supporting killing humans.

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MugoUrth In reply to sulfide [2012-10-29 21:52:09 +0000 UTC]

So you admit to stereotyping us, then.

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sulfide In reply to MugoUrth [2012-10-29 21:58:14 +0000 UTC]

"Us"... are you admitting to being an extremist?

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MugoUrth In reply to sulfide [2012-10-29 22:03:35 +0000 UTC]

Not likely, although what you said basically sounded like you think all animal lovers are the same and that we all want to kill humans. I, for one, do not approve of such drastic measures, to be honest.

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sulfide In reply to MugoUrth [2012-10-29 22:04:13 +0000 UTC]

No, actually. That's why I said extremists.

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MugoUrth In reply to sulfide [2012-10-29 22:06:31 +0000 UTC]

What defines "Extremist" to you?

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sulfide In reply to MugoUrth [2012-10-29 22:28:53 +0000 UTC]

Really? Try these as an example: [link]

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MugoUrth In reply to sulfide [2012-10-29 22:41:22 +0000 UTC]

...Yikes.

I used to know a guy who was seriously misanthropic, and thought anyone who hated animals was complete scum. But fortunately, that guy grew up.

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Galaxu In reply to MugoUrth [2012-10-30 00:04:44 +0000 UTC]

Come on you guys. No one is supporting "killing all humans" by faving the stamp, so you should both quit this pointless discussion. If people have the right to laugh at animal-cruelty jokes, then people also can laugh at jokes against the people who hurt animals. Just agree to disagree and move on already without putting words into other peoples' mouths.

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fenrirhound In reply to sulfide [2012-10-29 21:41:46 +0000 UTC]

Well now I really do get it 8D

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MugoUrth In reply to fenrirhound [2012-10-29 20:38:00 +0000 UTC]

Not really. Unlike most of the people here, she REALIZES that it's a joke and doesn't support it earnestly.

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fenrirhound In reply to MugoUrth [2012-10-29 21:49:22 +0000 UTC]

You might be surprised. She's wished death on me and my parents before because they "Raised me to be a sadist"

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MugoUrth In reply to fenrirhound [2012-10-29 21:56:43 +0000 UTC]

Wow. If this is true, I would really like to see that post.

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fenrirhound In reply to MugoUrth [2012-10-29 22:00:30 +0000 UTC]

Unfortunately I can't, time and hidden comments (I wonder why) keep me from showing you. I can however show you one of the posts where she insults my family.

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MugoUrth In reply to fenrirhound [2012-10-29 22:06:47 +0000 UTC]

Yes. That would shed some light on the situation.

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sulfide In reply to MugoUrth [2012-10-29 21:40:15 +0000 UTC]

So... realizing it's a joke automatically means it's ok to like it? Still a hypocritical thing. Just like those that joke about being "an hero".

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MugoUrth In reply to sulfide [2012-10-29 21:51:31 +0000 UTC]

No offense, Sulfide, but you're one to talk about being hypocritical.

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sulfide In reply to MugoUrth [2012-10-29 21:57:37 +0000 UTC]

Oh joy, care to explain how?

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MugoUrth In reply to sulfide [2012-10-29 22:05:42 +0000 UTC]

If you find "Meat is tasty murder" jokes to be funny, you have no right advocating to a joke like this.

Also, I find it very strange how you are against people who guilt trip others to help animals, even when it hurts no one or nothing, yet you personally have tried to guilt trip people into supporting animal testing, which may save human lives but animal lives die. So why is it right for someone to guilt trip others into a cause that saves some lives but take others, but it's not alright to guilt trip others into a cause that ONLY saves lives, even if it involves animals.

I also find it hypocritical how you're against vegetarianism, and act like everyone should eat meat because it's healthier. As well, I also find your "pro-life" stamp to be hypocritical. IMO, Pro-Life is Pro-ALL life, not just humans, not just animals.

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sulfide In reply to MugoUrth [2012-10-29 22:23:06 +0000 UTC]

Where have I ever said in my entire life that I find that to be funny. Please show me. I dare you to. Huge spoiler: you won't be able to, because I've never said it. Against people who guilt trip others into helping animals? That's not what I'm against. I'm against people who use our government's archaic laws to protect animals (that are not even endangered) for a political agenda that doesn't even have anything to do with saving animals. I'm not sure how many times or other ways it can be explained to you. All of my stamps go into great detail about this. Using wolves to push ranchers off of private and public land. Creating "wildlife corridors" where NO HUMAN USE is allowed. Claiming that grizzly bears are endangered and forcing people to live inside of 10,000 volt fences, a lifestyle meant for rapists. Ironically breaking the ESA's own stipulations (considering that electric fences "harm" animals when you need to fill out a 16 page document in order to get a permit in order to "harm" animals listed under the ESA - something else I've explained in my stamps).

When the hell have I guilt tripped people into supporting animal testing? My stamp regarding animal testing merely states that if you don't support it, you don't value humanity. 90% of our medications derived today have been tested on mice. I'll put a dollar on the table that someone you know/love is dependent on medicine. It's not guilt tripping, it's pure fact. Who ever said that we don't have to value their lives either? I'm thankful for those mice, those monkeys, those dogs, and those humans that have tested my medications. Without them, I wouldn't be able to function properly. But not supporting it would mean dozens of humans would die every year.

"...guilt trip others into a cause that ONLY saves lives, even if it involves animals."
You can do whatever you want about saving animals. Go work at an animal shelter. Take feral cats off the street (PLEASE! They are killing more birds annually than oil spills COMBINED) So long as it does not infringe upon the rights of our country. The Bill of Rights and our Constitution were not created to appease animals, no matter how others want to spin it.

Also, what? When have I ever been against vegetarianism...? I'm fine with either lifestyle (vegetarianism or veganism), contrary to what you or any other person observing might believe. The only thing that really bothers me is if you do it for moral reasons, and if you attempt to get all preachy about it towards other people. We don't want to hear why you think us eating meat makes us "sadists". In fact, vegans have more blood on their hands than omnivores. And balancing your portions actually is healthier. (Neither of those things were hypocritical by the way). My pro-life stamp isn't hypocritical at all - that's just you changing the meaning to what you want it to mean. The actual message is that human lives are placed below wildlife due to FARTs.

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MugoUrth In reply to sulfide [2012-10-29 22:39:35 +0000 UTC]

"Where have I ever said in my entire life that I find that to be funny. Please show me. I dare you to. Huge spoiler: you won't be able to, because I've never said it."

Hence, why I said "if you." I was implying that I have not actually seen you say it.

"That's not what I'm against. I'm against people who use our government's archaic laws to protect animals (that are not even endangered) for a political agenda that doesn't even have anything to do with saving animals. I'm not sure how many times or other ways it can be explained to you. All of my stamps go into great detail about this. Using wolves to push ranchers off of private and public land. Creating "wildlife corridors" where NO HUMAN USE is allowed. Claiming that grizzly bears are endangered and forcing people to live inside of 10,000 volt fences, a lifestyle meant for rapists. Ironically breaking the ESA's own stipulations (considering that electric fences "harm" animals when you need to fill out a 16 page document in order to get a permit in order to "harm" animals listed under the ESA - something else I've explained in my stamps)."

Thanks for clearing this up. Honestly, while I'm all for protecting endangered animals, I do not believe unnecessary drastic measures are the answer.

"When the hell have I guilt tripped people into supporting animal testing? My stamp regarding animal testing merely states that if you don't support it, you don't value humanity. 90% of our medications derived today have been tested on mice. I'll put a dollar on the table that someone you know/love is dependent on medicine. It's not guilt tripping, it's pure fact. Who ever said that we don't have to value their lives either? I'm thankful for those mice, those monkeys, those dogs, and those humans that have tested my medications. Without them, I wouldn't be able to function properly. But not supporting it would mean dozens of humans would die every year."

Hmmmm...

"You can do whatever you want about saving animals. Go work at an animal shelter. Take feral cats off the street (PLEASE! They are killing more birds annually than oil spills COMBINED) So long as it does not infringe upon the rights of our country. The Bill of Rights and our Constitution were not created to appease animals, no matter how others want to spin it."

Actually, I have worked at animal shelters before, and I would not mind working at one again.

"Also, what? When have I ever been against vegetarianism...? I'm fine with either lifestyle (vegetarianism or veganism), contrary to what you or any other person observing might believe. The only thing that really bothers me is if you do it for moral reasons, and if you attempt to get all preachy about it towards other people. We don't want to hear why you think us eating meat makes us "sadists". In fact, vegans have more blood on their hands than omnivores. And balancing your portions actually is healthier."

But I still find the fact that you make so many meat stamps to feel like you are targeting vegans. Honestly, I think people should eat what they want, and that neither vegetarians OR meat eaters should force others to eat what they eat.

"My pro-life stamp isn't hypocritical at all - that's just you changing the meaning to what you want it to mean. The actual message is that human lives are placed below wildlife due to FARTs."

My bad, I guess.

I still find it weird that as much as you say you like animals, that all your stamps basically revolve around attacking them and people who like animals. However, I do notice you're in an Endangered Animals group. There is... however, one thing that's always bothered me.

[link]

I found this journal in your faves, and honestly I find it sickening how anyone would support it. The person who made it sounds like a complete nut-job.

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sulfide In reply to MugoUrth [2012-10-29 23:53:14 +0000 UTC]

My stamps don't attack people who like animals. It's attacking an outdated law that needs to be repealed - and those who support using that law to (once again, sigh) force people off of private and public land. How would you feel to know that your city was refused permission to build a hospital because of an endangered fly? Sounds pretty outrageous, don't you think? That actually happened! I could list off several abusive stories from the ESA. So, when you see me ranting through my stamps about this act, it's not just me venting about people "who love animals". It's me severely upset that anyone would have the gall to support these criminal acts.

And yeah, TD is very declarative. That's why I fav'd his blog. Believe it or not, I don't really agree with much of what he has to say. However, his carnism blog drew a lot of attention - another reason why I fav'd it. His preposition at the end, while extreme (there are extremes on both side!), does actually prove a point. All humans are selfish. Vegans won't admit to it, but they would rather save their own skin than the life of an animals'. That's what TD is basically trying to say, with added anger and sadism. By saying he will kill a chicken on cam or submit a vegan to send him their own carcass, he is proving that they don't truly care about animals because they care about their own lives. Do I agree with that? No. I'm merely saying he has a point.

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MugoUrth In reply to sulfide [2012-10-30 00:00:18 +0000 UTC]

But you cannot ALWAYS be against animals and people who care about them. I'll admit, the "fly" thing sounds outrageous, and I think you're referring to the "Lobster Empathy Center" PETA tried to build, but it almost seems like you're ALWAYS against animals and the people who care about them. I know you say you're not, but the fact that ALL of your stamps are anti-animal/animal lover suggests you are.

As for that journal, I really don't think any reason justifies that journal. Nothing should have to die just to prove a point.

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sulfide In reply to MugoUrth [2012-10-30 00:11:33 +0000 UTC]

No, the fly was this:
[link]
[link]
[link]
[link]

It's not my fault that you misread my stamps. I've explained myself thousands of times to you, and my stamps speak pretty clear for themselves.

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MugoUrth In reply to sulfide [2012-10-30 00:14:52 +0000 UTC]

I know... but still. Your stamps are always Pro-Animal Death/Pro-Human/Anti-Animal/Anti-Animal Lover, and as many times as you say "You misread my stamps," it's still hard to shake the feeling that you're not a true animal lover. I don't mean any hard feelings by it.

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sulfide In reply to MugoUrth [2012-10-30 00:16:34 +0000 UTC]

If all you get out of my stamps is "pro animal death" then yes... you did misread my stamps.

For the 1000th time:

IT'S
ABOUT
ARCHAIC
GOVERNMENT
LAWS
THAT
HAVE
NOTHING
TO DO
WITH
SAVING
ANIMALS

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MugoUrth In reply to sulfide [2012-10-30 00:19:46 +0000 UTC]

Like I've said before, I get what you're saying. But you never make stamps about ways to help animals without killing them or anything like that. As for the Archaic Government Laws and what-have-you, you always talk about ways the Government is ruining the world by protecting animals and taking animal laws too far, but you never talk about the things some humans do that destroy nature like the BP Oil Spill or anything like that.

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sulfide In reply to MugoUrth [2012-10-30 00:25:05 +0000 UTC]

...We've had this conversation before, Mugo. My purpose for joining DA is to educate Americans on the dangers of radical environmentalism and the insidious nature of the alleged "green" organizations, as well as our abusive Endangered Species Act. My job is not to prove myself to you. I could care less what you think of me.

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MugoUrth In reply to sulfide [2012-10-30 00:31:59 +0000 UTC]

But the way you talk about these laws and groups, you act like EVERYONE who cares about animals is evil, and that animals are worthless. Even if you don't truly say or think this, you almost suggest this by always talking against animals and people who care about them. Yes, I get there are extremist animal lovers, and yes I get that humans are important to the planet, and that meat is essential, blah-blah-blah. But I don't think an "animal lover" should ALWAYS be against animals. A lot of what you say is true, yes, but as long as you talk only against animals, people generally will not take you seriously as a true animal lover. Also, if you have time to talk about meat and fur, which doesn't have to do with these laws or groups, why is it such a big deal to make even one true, honest, pro-animal stamp?

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sulfide In reply to MugoUrth [2012-10-30 00:36:57 +0000 UTC]

I act like everyone who cares about animals is evil? Explain why all of my friends love animals. One owns a rehab center, which I volunteered at for over a year (some of the most amazing animals I've worked with - the pictures are in my gallery - not everything is a stamp, by the way). One is a taxidermist. She loves animals so much that she would not see them rot away, she preserves them for everyone else to enjoy. I'm also in contact with a friend who lives in Africa, who owns a safari rangeland. He makes money from people that visit Africa just to view animals. Please, explain to me how I think everyone that cares about animals are evil. I'd love to hear your logic there. There are only a certain few that I hold in contempt, because of how they treat others. And I'm sure you know exactly who I'm talking about.

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