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BlindCoyote In reply to Vectorpone [2015-06-21 22:08:33 +0000 UTC]

go ahead just be sure to credit me and shoot me a link when your done

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BlindCoyote In reply to SweetPegasi [2015-05-19 04:05:46 +0000 UTC]

look at it this way. Celestia has just banished her sister. She now takes on the task that once was split between the two. This adds extra stress and responsibility on Celstia's shoulders on top of ruling Equestria. Between all that and having to loose her sister after trying her best to save her, Celestia has quiet a burden to carry. This wears down a person. She would have less time for herself and would have to be working all the time. I know after working extra long days at work I become a husk of sorts and don't wan't to deal with anyone else's crap.
Now look at it from Luna's view. She was possessed and transformed by a force she could not control. She was a prisoner in her own body. When she was banished she probably sis not understand why with the dark forces taking over. Over time The dark that was Nightmare moon probably talked Luna into believing they were one in the same and it was her fault as well. After being told something for a long time people are more likely to believe it.
Now imagine all this over 1000 years. It is a heavy toll to pay for each.
Hope all that made some sort of sense.
But that's just how I look at it.

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SweetPegasi In reply to BlindCoyote [2015-05-28 00:52:54 +0000 UTC]

You do forget how self sacrificing Celestia is, right? No matter what she's always shown a smile at the worst of times. and been supportive to many. Although Celestia has a lot of work on her hands it must cause her a lot of trouble, but she's always been depicted to look on the good side of things. She's old and wise and good teacher for that matter. She's always shown care to Twilight and her subjects, so this really depicts her in the wrong light.

When Luna was trapped in the moon she wasn't Luna. She was Nightmare Moon. There was no Luna there. When she came back she WAS STILL Nightmare Moon. Luna recovered knowing she was free from her dark forces and nothing else. She was happy she was back and said sorry to her sister and it was a sweet reunion. One tried to kill the other and one had no choice to send their soul away until they could get someone to have the power to bring her back. 

They both had a tough 1000 years but they came out of it. I don't understand why people try and make Celestia such an awful pony and Luna a weak baby out of it all. They are both strong and have managed. No reason to make it out it was more horrible.

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Kitcat36 In reply to SweetPegasi [2015-06-04 01:07:44 +0000 UTC]

I don't think the piece is trying to convey that Celestia is awful or that Luna is a baby.  The point is just what you said--they both had a really rough 1000 years, and in different ways.

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Nara-Wolf In reply to BlindCoyote [2015-05-22 15:39:57 +0000 UTC]

Beautiful analysis and  amazing picture, you really captured the emotions!

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gittykitty264 In reply to MoppyPuppy [2017-01-22 10:33:14 +0000 UTC]

I know there was a whole argument going on about this and I'm still not sure why I took the time to read it.  :/

I don't think that Celestia was self-centered or narcissistic, although this may just be my opinion.  I believe she always cared for her sister, but was too involved with her own duties and responsibilities that she never had the time and didn't put in enough effort to notice her sister's jealousy growing, which is understandable seeing as she has immense responsibilities on her shoulders.  In a way, she did save Luna by not killing her, even though she may well have been able to.  Nightmare Moon posed a real threat to Equestria.  

There also was the possibility that Celestia knew she would not be able to defeat Nightmare Moon by herself, because she could not wield the Elements of Harmony by herself.  She wanted to save her sister, and knew that the only way she could do that was to banish her to the moon until she could find ponies who could use the Elements to break Luna free.  She also probably knew that it would take time to find those said ponies, in which it most certainly did.  

We're all entitled to our own opinions, so I'm not hating on yours, I just think that Celestia shouldn't be viewed in such a negative light.  

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GremlinGrenade In reply to MoppyPuppy [2015-06-02 20:29:39 +0000 UTC]

Well I mean, Luna's exact words were "There can only be one princess in Equestria, and that princess will be ME!"

You know, right before she went apeshit.

Like, in the show.

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MoppyPuppy In reply to GremlinGrenade [2015-06-03 03:32:06 +0000 UTC]

Rarity was brought back, but not Luna.
Difference is the willingness to try.

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GremlinGrenade In reply to MoppyPuppy [2015-06-04 19:41:59 +0000 UTC]

Luna wanted to kill her sister and plunge the world into eternal night. Rarity was getting jealous of some of her friends. Somehow I think Celestia was smart enough to weigh that one out.

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MoppyPuppy In reply to GremlinGrenade [2015-06-04 22:52:35 +0000 UTC]

You've ignored the Nightmare invasion to make Rarity's transformation more trivial, I would argue that if left up to Celestia Rarity would be singing Art of the Dress from the moon for a thousand years.
Lastly Celestia barely raised a hoof the last two Nightmare incidents.

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GremlinGrenade In reply to MoppyPuppy [2015-06-05 17:35:20 +0000 UTC]

Oh yeah, I'd actually forgotten about that. Still doubt that would happen, Celestia definitely seems to have learned from her mistakes, and if we are going by the comics as canon (which I do, but not everyone does), she has displayed that she sorely regrets her actions with Luna, most notably in the Sunset Shimmer arc that went with the first EQG. Sure, it was one panel, but somehow I don't think she'd ever let that happen again.

I guess I'm even bothering with this comment chain at all because it seems like everyone blames Celestia for Luna's mistakes and trying to do otherwise just gets called out as victim-shaming. And this analogy has been used in my real life for others to avoid responsibility and generally make me feel like shit for not overcoming their problems for them, so I can really empathize with Celestia as a character, and it doesn't feel too good when people pick on her. Both the princesses made big mistakes, it's what makes them complex and interesting characters, but people only seem to hate on one of them, and it seems kind of unfair.

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MoppyPuppy In reply to GremlinGrenade [2015-06-05 18:31:06 +0000 UTC]

Well I agree that Celestia strongly regrets her mistake with Luna, you won't find me blaming Celestia for Luna's mistakes and each Princess has their own demons to deal with.
You acknowledge faults with Celestia and that puts you miles ahead of others.
Luna's error is irrefutable but I don't see anyone declaring that Nightmare Moon never happened, perhaps declaring that others contributed to the fall but the fall occurred regardless.

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SweetPegasi In reply to MoppyPuppy [2015-05-19 03:54:14 +0000 UTC]

Are you serious? She tried her hardest!? Luna is the narcissistic one and always has been portrayed that way. Maybe you should read the canon mlp comics and see WHAT PRINCESS REALLY CALLS HER SUBJECTS "PEASANTS" AND DAMN "COMMONERS". Luna got possessed by the Nightmare Forces and in no way was that Celestia's fault. Look up the real canon story behind the two before you blame the pony who had no choice but to sadly send her sister to the moon and ended up lonely for 1000 years WHILE TRYING TO HOLD A KINGDOM TOGETHER. She could have been killed by Nightmare Moon! At least she let herself get reformed instead of killing her jfc.

You extreme Luna lovers piss me off.  

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MoppyPuppy In reply to SweetPegasi [2015-05-19 06:27:10 +0000 UTC]

Oh! You want to use the "canon mlp comics" you'll note that Rarity became Nightmare Rarity and in the end they brought Rarity back.
This means that it is more than possible and the 1000 years was woefully unnecessary, this is made evident by the same comic you used.
I suppose that's what happens when you dedicate more than 10 seconds before pulling the ultimate trigger on your own sister.

Luna uses verbiage reminiscent of royalty from 1000 years ago, if you don't like it perhaps you should blame the pony that condemned her to lose 1000 years of her life.

Oh poor princess Celestia, she must have been so lonely with an entire population of ponies that love and adore her, not like Luna who took a pleasant vacation on the moon.
Your argument is FOX NEWS levels of story manipulation.

Luna was possessed by the Nightmare Forces (That sentence sounds so stupid) but the way of which it happened is indicative of prior pain.
Her night was shunned.
"It is no use Twilight Sparkle, they have NEVER liked us, and they never shall."

Your selective cherry picking of the mlp canon pisses me off.

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SweetPegasi In reply to MoppyPuppy [2015-05-28 00:47:39 +0000 UTC]

Oh boy, please note that Luna was there who had EXPERIENCED THE TROUBLES of being possessed. So they HAD HER HELP TO FIX NIGHTMARE RARITY. The comic had a lot to do with Luna figuring out how to get rid of Nightmare Rarity, please note that Celestia didn't know what to do when Luna was sent to the moon and did not know how to get her back. Because lol she wasn't really crying when she sent her away, right? It's obvious she wanted Twilight's help to use the elements of harmony and friendship to get rid of Nightmare Moon to bring Luna back. 


Celestia only sent Luna who was actually "Nightmare Moon" away because she tried to KILL HER. It was a last resort. Celestia wasn't the one who didn't love Luna, it was Luna's subjects who didn't show her love WHICH WAS NOT CELESTIA'S FAULT. //eyeroll//  Her subjects like her now and it was never Celestia's fault, it was Luna just being distant and not understanding how to interact with fellow ponies since they slept at night while she was active.

And Luna is the opposite of Celestia. 

Celestia is 

- Can be too silly (Can be bad or good)
- Self-sacrificing 
- Too trusting (As shown through discord, Sunset Shimmer, kind sombra and even her sister. Who have all betrayed her... )
- Close to her subjects and very social (As shown in many episodes of her being modest like innocently pranking stressful Mr and Mrs cake and preferring the Gala not being too royal and boring)
 
Luna is - 

- Can be too serious (Can be bad or good)
- More focused on herself and royal duties
- Too unsure of others
- Distant from her subjects and prefers to be alone (Depicted again from the canon comics since you like uses them too! She says that she hates doing Celestia's loud and busy job and prefers peaceful afternoons)

Also please note when Luna was TRAPPED INSIDE THE MOON (NOT WALKING AROUND IT ALL LONELY) she wasn't Luna, she was Nightmare Moon. She never said she was lonely being on the moon. When she came back she WAS still Nightmare Moon. Evil and wanting to take over. Did Luna ask for an apology when she came back? No, she said sorry for being so jealous and selfish and TRYING TO KILL HER SISTER. Celestia always says how much she missed Luna, do you really think there is a deep hatred and underlining message between them in a kids show? She literally says she hated the sun celebration and that EVERYONE ELSE CELEBRATED IT BESIDES HER and that it only reminded her about how she had to send her sister away. 

Also if you say Celestia is lazy or whatever then the cute little mini comic of her and Spike talks about how she hates being a sidekick too, wanting to adventure and how she has to be more of a teacher than getting into action. It's a good comic, I suggest it!

My selective cherry picking? OH PLEASE... The amount of biased opinions you've thrown at me is rich. Literally picturing a big silly princess as evil for sending a nightmare tyrant away that tried to kill her as her only choice. Lol fox news my ass, I love Luna too but you edgy "LUNAR EMPIRE RULES DOWN WITH CELESTIA!!!" need to calm down. 

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Icesticker In reply to SweetPegasi [2015-06-02 20:14:08 +0000 UTC]

oh yay, zealot defenders of a character. Please make my day more entertaining

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MoppyPuppy In reply to SweetPegasi [2015-05-28 02:28:54 +0000 UTC]

ALSO...

Don't be a coward by responding then blocking me.

Cowards that block responses only confirm they've lost and have nothing left to stand on.

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MoppyPuppy In reply to SweetPegasi [2015-05-28 02:20:17 +0000 UTC]

"LUNAR EMPIRE RULES DOWN WITH CELESTIA!!!" You refute my claim that you're like FOX NEWS and then straw man my argument just as Fox does, the lack of self-awareness is astounding.

The rest of your response is terrible sophistry, nothing you said in the first paragraph addresses the issue that Luna solved the Nightmare issue more efficiently by 1000 years.
Luna being possessed did not give her knowledge on how to reverse the process, she found out how over time because she tried. Both Luna and Celestia got blasted out of the sky upon their first attempt, the difference is that Luna doesn't go the path of least resistance after 10 seconds and thus created a solution.
Simply saying: "Oh they had to" makes me question why they just had to save Rarity while Luna is thrown under the bus during the exact same circumstances.

For the 2nd paragraph, again both Celestia and Luna had an attempt made on their lives in the exact same way. Luna battled to bring Rarity back, Celestia did loopty loops for Luna.
Last resort? What was the first? Loopty loops. She was crying so its okay.

As an older sister if you have differences between you and your younger sibling its completely understandable, if your other sibling turns into a Nightmare rage monster from implied cruelty and neglect then even without specifics, a critical failure has occurred.

The next argument really sickens me not as a fan but just as a person:
"And Luna is the opposite of Celestia." (So of course she totally had it coming.)

Celestia is 

An extrovert
So self-sacrificing to send your protege on life threatening missions many of which are to clean up after past failures.
Plays with other ponies that look scared half to death around her.
 
Luna is - 
An introvert, had it coming.
Way too focused on herself and her duties, you know, unlike her sister that noticed her sister becoming dark and distant before it was too late (oh wait...). Especially when in the comics Starswirl explicitly told that older sister that Luna was becoming disturbed, but screw it time to elope with a guy through a mirror that could possibly doom an entire fucking dimension. So you make a good point, Celestia has plenty of free time.
Luna is so distant from her subjects, especially when she helps other ponies with life problems through their dreams! Slap yourself and do some introspection you cherry picker.

I really enjoy how you can defend Celestia banishing Luna to the moon by stating that:  "she wasn't Luna, she was Nightmare Moon." just after blaming Luna for everything Nightmare Moon did.
Either they're the same pony or are entirely separate, you cannot have it both ways just to suit your convenience.

The KIDS SHOW defense, an example of double standards. Fight scenes, ponies dying, getting hit with lasers and a internment camp episode in the Season 5 premier, but you'll laud it for being more than a kids show until you're backed into a corner then its just a kids show. Double standard.

I've read all the comics to date, I'll enjoy refuting your points with them.

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SweetPegasi In reply to MoppyPuppy [2015-05-31 22:49:05 +0000 UTC]

Oh shut up you're clearly head over heels over Luna. I like both sisters but it's clear that your main hatred for Celestia is through Luna. 

First of all your comic references are very loosely based. Celestia didn't want to harm her damn sister. As referred to in the comics she said "Luna... I... I haven't seen a smile on that face in ages." It's obvious Celestia knew of when Luna was going through a downfall but Luna was cold and distant. She said so aggressively that she WILL be the only princess. This isn't some dumb "poor misunderstood baby dribble", this is made out of jealously that made her into a monster. Jealously is wanting something someone else has. It wasn't that Celestia ignored her or whatever, she just wanted the activity and attention she got for her night as Celestia's day got. It appears she became feared as she became more like a monster, which is no one's fault, especially not Celestia's. Look how happy she is to see her sister, happy - i.imgur.com/00jVqwa.jpg

Also about the sombra thing? //eyeroll// One of the saddest parts in Celestia's story. She was overrun with guilt for enjoying herself that she obviously left the realm which she originally went to with Starswirl the Bearded, so she wasn't just goofing off the first time round.www.theouthousers.com/images/t…

So you think it's horrible for Celestia to feel a little love when her sister tried to KILL HER? Nevemind that but did that love even go well? No, Celestia was left heartbroken. She has made so many connections to others yet they all go wrong. Luna, Sombra and Sunset Shimmer even. Two betrayed her because they wanted her power and the other sacrificing himself.s8.postimg.org/e6wy21v91/goodb…

Also in no way is Celestia evil as stated canon and since the "other world" Celestia was. - i.imgur.com/PuhokVV.jpg

Also although Luna was angry at first she understood why Celestia had these "closet friends" as she HAD NO ONE TO TALK TO. www.mylittlepony.it/wp-content…
She had to bring up an empire herself but that doesn't mean she didn't have friends. She says she's sorry but she loves her real sister the most and Luna knows that. Celestia was going through a tough time. And no "OH BUT POOR LUNA! SHE COULD HAVE DONE THIS!!!" Will change that. She couldn't,so she was alone and she was left to suffer.

EVEN LUNA SAYS IT - zobeid.zapto.org/image/MLP/evi…
Because Luna cares for her sister and knows she's done all she could for her. (Since this scene is after Celestia is hurt so angry Luna is angry) Luna would hate a person like you if she met you for your dumb hatred. Luna is a fine and well pony, sure she had her problems but she was a changed pony and her sister did all she could in one instance. To save a kingdom or save your loved one? Nevermind the fact your loved one has been possessed and she had no idea how to fix it. Think about it, Celestia is one pony. Strong but can't control everything. In the Nightmare Moon and Celestia fight she could have killed Luna is she tried. Luna is not as powerful as Celestia as proven how hard she finds it to raise the sun - img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20…

But no Celestia used the elements of Harmony to trap her. Think about it like this, the elements of harmony tend to make sure the enemy doesn't die rather than keep them from causing havoc. Discord turning into stone, Nightmare Moon's soul trapped in the moon and Tirek even just having his power taken from him. Celestia doesn't want to harm her sister, only conceal her UNTIL IT'S TIME FOR HER TO COME BACK AND BE FREE FROM HER DEMONS. Luna clearly gained knowledge from experience of being controlled by those monsters (which was a dumb wimpy story line in itself to make Luna look less evil to be like "OH THE EVIL MADE ME DO IT!!!" but Nightmare Rarity is cool at least!) Also to say Celestia is evil is a dumb fan theory in itself when her opposite world counter part was EVIL. (until the whole Sombra sacrifice thing) and Luna was good when THE REAL LUNA WAS EVIL. (Then evil later on when Luna was reformed it's all very confusing)

You're replies hold no canon fact, rather than dumb theories that can be easily argued against.

About Luna and Celestia's personalities if you've read all the comics to date perhaps you know of the mini friends forever  comic about Spike and Celestia? Go buy it, it's a good read since it seems you haven't read it. :^P  Anyway the comic is about Celestia and Spike going on a quest and bonding over one common trait and that is they feel like sidekicks to the mane six. When they both get captured by moutain crabs, Celestia states that although she is powerful she is a teacher and must stand back from adventuring to let others learn. She says everything Twilight has been through she knows she can overcome (and she did it) or she wouldn't have put her through it otherwise. Spike eventually gets them out of the cage they were put in and he questions why she didn't get them out because surely somepony as powerful as her could. She speaks about how she wanted him to get them out, otherwise it would have been too easy and he wouldn't have learned from it. When they two encounter a giant boulder in their way, blocking the exit of a cave, Celestia blows it up. Spike questions why she didn't let him try and get rid of the problem and she says that there was no way he couldn't have gotten rid of that boulder and she must know and respect her students limitations while also saying that is was also her time for an adventure too. She's also  ROYAL PURE ALICORN WHO RAISES THE SUN. If she went out and got herself killed, the world would be in serious danger. As stated before, Luna isn't as strong as Celestia. Celestia isn't so much a fighter in this world, more of a leader and a guidance like Dumbledore or Gandalf. She is powerful as heck, but can only teach those who wish to learn. She is the head of the school for gifted unicorns!

Also a cute comic showing her love and kindness as a teacher is when she helps out an old pony who battled along beside her in her youth when she was alone in battle. - cdn.comixology.com/previews/ju… She saves her from getting fired while reminding those of what a great pony she is, even if she is old. 

Also Celestia loves Luna so much? Luna turns into Nightmare Moon out of jealously for her sister and when does Celestia turn into Solar Flare? WHEN LUNA IS HURT. - 4.bp.blogspot.com/-IMzk-W0QeFA…

SHE IS THE SUN AND LUNA THE MOON. Celestia got her power from the opposite of jealously. Her care for her sister, turned her into a monster. So in no canon way does Celestia hate or want Luna gone. She loves her and always has. She felt powerless without her and hated the sun celebration. She wasn't adored in the way she deserved, only treated like loyalty when she wanted people to look past that. She's silly and wishes for an escape and adventure but she knows WHAT SHE MUST DO. She must guide those to success. She must do all the royal meetings and discussion and keeping an empire safe.

Celestia and Luna are opposites. Like I said Celestia knows how her students can deal with situations and would stop it at any moment she had to. She treats those around her like real ponies and not commoners unlike Luna - img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20…

Luna KNOWS she's royalty as she states before that she shouldn't be getting her own tea when Celestia tells her about other world Luna too. She wants respect like that and that's probably were a lot of her monsters came from. She sees herself as high up and she wishes to be treated as so - static.comicvine.com/uploads/o… (Like her t-shirt and guard cleaning her up) 

And that's why I LIKE LUNA. She's a bit bitchy and posh but she's great. I don't like this whole "POOR MISTUNDSTOOD BABY!!! THING OR WHATEVER". That character outlook on her sucks. Luna is strong and overcame her demons with the help of the mane six and the elements, not alone. She is strong but remember she was blasted with a friendship beam ffs. She needed the harmony to rid her demons of jealously and unforgiving hatred. She loves Celestia and Celestia loves her. The made up hate HAS BEEN DENIED SO MANY TIMES YET YOU TRY TO PROVE IT? Seriously??? //sighhh///

Luna goes into ponies dreams while Celestia holds the school for the gifted unicorns among attending many social events. Luna helps out bits in pieces, not being one for big social parties so she's more of a introvert in how she works there. She's more silent in the way she works. Also speaking about Celestia letting ponies deal with havoc, what about Luna? She controls the nightmares of ponies at times to let them see the darkness of their situation like with Sweetie Belle and Rarity. Luna shows Sweetie Belle some terrifying stuff of her sister to MAKE HER LEARN, Exactly what Celestia does. Celestia let's ponies deal with their outer demons which bother them in life and I guess Luna more of the inner edgy darker stuff. They both tend to teach while doing other stuff, like Luna dealing with night beasts (which she prefers and says she hates dealing with so many ponies during the day) and Celestia deals with the business and royal type stuff. It's stressful and it really tired Luna out when she attempted it.

Luna and Celestia are both great characters and they both care and love each other and both would happily send an ignorant fool like you to the moon pfft... They're different and have both bad and good traits and many ignore them. Luna fans ruin both Celestia AND Luna's character by making one and evil tyrant and the other a super edgy poor unfortunate emo child. //gag//

Your hate for Celestia is biased as heck, and no matter what dumb evidence and selective picking you pull out, you can't deny Celestia has a good heart and that Luna has admitted her wrong doings. And I would never block someone over and argument they have no way of winning. I think this case is closed anyway, unless you have some other dumb spews you want to pull out all mighty Luna fan number1.

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MoppyPuppy In reply to SweetPegasi [2015-06-01 05:20:58 +0000 UTC]

I'm really sick of "Oh she was distant" as the end all beat all argument to why Celestia wasn't completely negligent toward her sister, such an argument would never work in literally ANY other context.
"Hey man your brother looks really miserable, talks about taking his own life all the time lately you think you should like, check on him or something?" "No he's being distant."
Brother commits suicide that day and on his tombstone the epitaph reads: He was COLD & DISTANT.
Justified!

This scenario would never be acceptable by any reasonable person much less royalty, the bias you speak of is mere a projection of your bias.

Such a long reply with nothing but tired excuses.

Celestia not having seen a smile on Luna's face in ages just digs her into a deeper hole of negligence, that comic is full of warning signs that Celestia acknowledges but never acts upon!
Luna stating that she would be the only Princess in Equestria is not a warning sign that Luna is falling, she's already hit rock bottom and Celestia had already failed her sister.
Oh Celestia was happy to see her line replaceable sister that made her temporarily forget she banished her sister! Escapism from her responsibilities and failures is not sign of virtue, its acknowledging that she made a terrible mistake and she's found a world that goes on as if she never made it of course she would smile!

Its not horrible for Celestia to love, its horrible that she puts entire worlds at risk to do so despite repeated warnings (oh how relevant!) and in the end allowing another disaster due to gross negligence.
So in the comic Celestia isn't evil, just negligent and irresponsible. She ignored warnings and created a monster twice.
Things go wrong like Sunset Shimmer, but that just adds to an ever growing list of Celestia allowing them to go wrong!

The running theme here is Celestia is given repeated warnings of impending doom but Celestia just plows ahead ignoring the problem until its far too late. For Luna, For Sombra, For Sunset Shimmer, heck even for Chrysalis!
Hey Celestia your most loyal protege is giving you a warning of impending doom! Nope, ignore, hope the problem goes away on its own.

Your entire paragraph about Luna understanding is bull shit, Luna explicitly states that the only reason she can't stay angry is that she'd paradoxically be getting angry at herself. Even if Luna were to be okay with literally everything, Celestia objectively did not do all she could for all the villains stated above, not even close.

The next series of paragraphs are completely meaningless in light of Rarity being brought back from the exact same affliction.

My replies have the same canon facts yours do, the only difference is that you see cannot see Celestia do anything wrong! Even Starswirl was reasonable enough to call Celestia out on her bullshit as needed.
Hell from that stand point I actually care more about Celestia than you do! So long as we're claiming what the characters would feel about us (you know, the canon facts you talk about) Celestia would never learn anything from you as you would give her a free pass for literally everything.

"She's also  ROYAL PURE ALICORN WHO RAISES THE SUN." oh gag, and you accuse me of being a fantard, go perform cunnilingus on Celestia while you're at it.

"Celestia isn't so much a fighter in this world," ah yes I really got that impression in the Chrysalis FIENDship comic when Celestia first met Chrysalis and hit her with fucking NAPALM, then literally condemned her in to a fiery hellscape!
I don't blame her for those things but fuck off if she's not a fighter. Your next paragraph actually references another battle in the comics.

Oh its Solar Fire! Yet another alternative to 1000 year banishment. You meant to bring that up to help me right?

I already refuted your "Commoner" BS, such behavior fits right in the archaic time Luna originates from and it is demonstrated in the TV show that she has adapted. But why would you notice? That'd be inconvenient.
I also completely whooped your ass last round by reminding you that Luna helps her subjects in their dreams. Oh the inconvenience for you.

Same harmony beams, different results. Must have been something about the wielder. So interesting.

Oh yes both Princesses put their subjects through strife in-order to teach but only one risks their subject's real deaths.

I can't be certain if either Princess would see fit to banish me, but I bet Celestia would come to that conclusion much faster than anyone else.
Maybe even faster if I were acting DISTANT.



To conclude, this "MISUNDERSTOOD BABY" bullshit cannot be found anywhere in my original comment, you flew off the handle because I put some of the responsibility of how things turned out on Celestia and you couldn't handle it.
You say both characters have good and bad traits but I've yet to see you acknowledge a single bad trait for Celestia, who has had a hand in disasters such as Nightmare Moon, Sombra, Chrysalis, and Sunset Shimmer.
So to bring it back full circle: "The once hyper self centered and narcissistic Princess Celestia, couldn't even care for her sister and never even tried to save her."

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SweetPegasi In reply to MoppyPuppy [2015-06-02 18:55:59 +0000 UTC]

You've literally said nothing but theory and twisted stuff out of context YET AGAIN while refusing to acknowledge my points. Also... no you proved nothing about Luna's royalty problems and need to have attention, she's just born that way. Luna was never abused or ANYTHING LIKE THAT. She just KNEW HER PLACE IN ROYALTY and expected to be highly treated as such but since of her nightly duties having to be tended to she failed to get the attention she thought she deserved. Luna's jealously was wrong and it taught a message to not be jealous of those who may shine brighter than you, Celestia is just doing her job and Luna got corrupted from jealously. Both of them could hardly see each other anyway from work, I'd imagine Celestia would be too caught up in the troubles of the kingdom so when her sister acted sour to her what do you think she could do, huh? Sounds like you've got some relation to Luna with neglect and have forced all of that inner hatred on Celestia, when missing the whole point of their story. 

I know Celestia isn't perfect, but she isn't evil and she does love her sister. NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES YOU DENY THAT, SHE LOVES HER. It's been proven time and time again but you're just like "SHE HATES HER! POOR LUNA!" That's where the big misunderstood baby bullshit comes from, you're ignorant as heck.

Like I said they are the opposite of each other.

Celestia is too kind, trusting and silly. These traits work out well BUT CLEARLY NOT ALL THE TIME. She trusts in those too much to only be betrayed. Is that her fault? Not fully, those who have betrayed her sought for power. Celestia has done many good things but SHE WILL SCREW UP since she is a teacher and expects goodness in everyone, but clearly that is not the case. She's got a lot of responsibility and those few screw overs of her 1000+ lifespan don't seem to bad. At least she didn't turn into A MONSTER TRYING TO KILL EVERYONE.

Also about Celestia being unable to save Luna but the other's Nightmare Rarity, think about the difference in those characters. Nightmare Moon could control the time of the day and was a super powerful alicorn. If Celestia let her be she would die. That was Nightmare Moon's first objective, to kill Celestia. She would not rest until she was dead so she WAS THE ONLY PRINCESS. If that happened the world would crumble and everything would die since y'know no sun = death. Sending her to the moon was her only choice. So discord getting imprisoned in stone is fine? Just because Nightmare Moon corrupted from Luna doesn't make her any less of being need to be sealed away. She was dangerous and needed to be dealt with. Sure Nightmare Rarity was too but not as threatening as Nightmare Moon to the kingdom's welfare. Also Solar Flare is something you've totally brushed off. You keep laughing yet never EXPLAINING.

Solar Flare HAPPENED OUT OF CELESTIA'S CARE FOR HER SISTER. YOU CAN'T DENY THAT FACT AND SHE MEANT TO HURT THE ENEMY WHO HURT HER SISTER, NOT HER ACTUAL SISTER. Also looking at your page your theories for Luna are make me both cringe and laugh. Another reason to say "POOR MISUNDERSTOOD LUNA!!!!" You've came up with this world where Luna is a miserable sad blob when she clearly isn't. Luna is tough, hard headed and has no more hard feelings about Nightmare Moon. Flashbacks of her and Celestia in the cartoon have them working together to start Equestria. There was no hate between them or anything showing Luna was sad or had a bad childhood. This is just dumb fan speculation to create pity for a character. 

Celestia's event with Chrysalis doesn't mean she can't fight sometimes. She loves adventure but just doesn't get much of the chance to do it, like I sad. If she could have done that to Chrysalis then she could have damn destroyed Nightmare Moon, but she didn't want to. She just sealed her to keep her away from hurting her or her subjects. 

Celestia's is a weird character just like Luna. Their bad traits fill out who they are. I think if Luna can get corrupted by jealously then Celestia can get corrupted by her need for having people to love and care for. Know that Celestia sacrificed a lot in her life to keep her kingdom safe, even her sister. To actually find happiness she obviously went overboard which was a dumb mistake. Things resolved themselves but she wasn't just doing it for herself as well but to also stop the reign of evil Luna and Celestia in the other world, causing Sombra's demise.

You've basically taken all of Celestia's bad faults and made it out she's the worst character for fucking up. When you pity Luna when she does the same. You're clearly biased. No point in denying that. 

I was only replying in how Celestia did these things and why she isn't inherently "evil" as you said before. A character can make a mistake but that doesn't make her regret them and feel bad. Celestia is a very deep and interesting character in that way. I'm getting tired of arguing with you because clearly you just think POOR LUNA!!!! No matter what, even though Luna is fine. She's fine. She isn't damaged or hurt or whatever anymore but you still insist ON A CHARACTER NOT BEING HAPPY AND SAD. 

But anyway about the "commoner BS" the comics are basically still going along during the cartoon time and LUNA IS STILL LIKE THAT. I also explained how both Luna AND CELESTIA help ponies both in the real world and dream world. Luna doesn't always help ponies in their dreams like Celestia doesn't always help those at her unicorn school but they are both good at helping younger ponies out, just Luna expects to be treated like royalty more and prefers her night job a lot more than the day. So nice to know you skimmed over that one. 

Also nice avoidance knowing Luna would obviously hate a person like you. Celestia would probably just look at you as you scream your little head off and try and tell you a lesson about friendship pftt. You're literally crazy head over heels for Luna, acting like Celestia is a tyrant JUST BECAUSE YOU FEEL LIKE SHE SHOULD BE to make Luna more sad. You're crushing a character for who she is. I love Luna. I love how she's sweet, posh, dorky, rude and a odd. She's good like that. None of this sad little sweet kind precious never done anything bad baby nonsense. 

Also Celestia COULD STEP IN AT ANY MOMENT TO HELP OUT TWILIGHT. But like I said, she knows her student's limitations. She respects them. Tell me that when Twilight dies on mission maybe then I'll agree with you, never mind the fact both Luna and Celestia have sent the mane 6 on missions.

And about the distant thing? I don't mean like she wasn't talking but more as SHE DIDN'T WANT TO TALK. Like I said the both had their jobs to take care of but if these Nightmare beings were taking over her do you really think she would be nice to Celestia? The one who the Nightmare forces wanted her to hate and kill? No, she'd probably be angry and moody at her. Be hard to talk to and confused the heck out of her. And The Nightmare forces work fast, as seen with Nightmare Rarity. So Celestia wouldn't even have had much of a chance before Luna turned. Celestia loved her sister yet you keep denying that again and again no matter what due to wanting to make Luna seem more and more sad.

You're just a crazy Luna fan you pushes so much pity on a pony who would not care for pity. Both princesses are good in their own ways and bad in the other. Your hate is pulled out of nothing but wanting Luna to seem sad and deep. Gimme some more your ignorant stubborn argument if you must. I know you're not listening to what I say anyway, crazy fans are the stubborn ones.

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MoppyPuppy In reply to SweetPegasi [2015-06-03 01:00:03 +0000 UTC]

Hey JACKASS, I have yet to say anything about Luna this whole time!
Anytime I have even mentioned Luna the subject was ultimately Celestia.

I'm so sick of your "POOR LUNA!" straw man bullshit.
The only time I've shown any kind of sympathy for Luna was:
Her night was shunned. (Canon Season 1 Episode 1)
"It is no use Twilight Sparkle, they have NEVER liked us, and they never shall." (Canon quote Season 2 Episode 4)REMOVE THE CHIP OFF OF YOUR SHOULDER.
Your insistence to demagogue all fans of Luna to be religious psychopaths just shows that you don't think they're psycho you need them to be because people will see how crazy you are, let me just remind you yet again that this whole thing started because I made a comment about Celestia.

You've literally said nothing but theory and twisted stuff out of context YET AGAIN while refusing to acknowledge my points.I've addressed your points paragraph for paragraph and anyone crazy enough to read the entire conversation can see it. This time I will use the QUOTE feature so it will be undeniable to even the laziest of readers. (you)

Also... no you proved nothing about Luna's royalty problems and need to have attention, she's just born that way. Luna was never abused or ANYTHING LIKE THAT. She just KNEW HER PLACE IN ROYALTY and expected to be highly treated as such but since of her nightly duties having to be tended to she failed to get the attention she thought she deserved. Luna's jealously was wrong and it taught a message to not be jealous of those who may shine brighter than you, Celestia is just doing her job and Luna got corrupted from jealously. Besides you being somehow baffled on why a member of Royalty would want proper Royal customs and courtesies, the whole argument here is predicated on Celestia not being treated as royalty.
I know its going to absolutely blow your mind but Celestia is treated like Royalty and that is not a problem. If ponies being required to bow in Celestia's presence and address her by title offends you that's your problem.

Both of them could hardly see each other anyway from work, I'd imagine Celestia would be too caught up in the troubles of the kingdom so when her sister acted sour to her what do you think she could do, huh? Sounds like you've got some relation to Luna with neglect and have forced all of that inner hatred on Celestia, when missing the whole point of their story.You imagined what's convenient for a perfect Celestia who's only crime was being too perfect. Will touch on this repeatedly below.

I know Celestia isn't perfect, but she isn't evil and she does love her sister. NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES YOU DENY THAT, SHE LOVES HER. It's been proven time and time again but you're just like "SHE HATES HER! POOR LUNA!" That's where the big misunderstood baby bullshit comes from, you're ignorant as heck. Never stated that Celestia hated her sister. You're not even reading before you reply.

Celestia is too kind, trusting and silly.... ...At least she didn't turn into A MONSTER TRYING TO KILL EVERYONE.Stated like a crazed Celestia fan, you state that Celestia isn't perfect but all the faults you state are positive.
Once again, you treat Luna & Nightmare Moon both as one in the same or as two entirely different entities depending on convenience, according to you it was Luna not Nightmare Moon that tried to kill everyone but Celestia didn't banish her own sister Luna on the moon, that was Nightmare Moon. You're not reading before you comment again because I already addressed this: "Either they're the same pony or are entirely separate, you cannot have it both ways just to suit your convenience."

Also about Celestia being unable to save Luna but the other's Nightmare Rarity, think about the difference in those characters. Nightmare Moon could control the time of the day and was a super powerful alicorn. If Celestia let her be she would die. That was Nightmare Moon's first objective, to kill Celestia. She would not rest until she was dead so she WAS THE ONLY PRINCESS. If that happened the world would crumble and everything would die since y'know no sun = death. Sending her to the moon was her only choice. So discord getting imprisoned in stone is fine? Just because Nightmare Moon corrupted from Luna doesn't make her any less of being need to be sealed away. She was dangerous and needed to be dealt with. Sure Nightmare Rarity was too but not as threatening as Nightmare Moon to the kingdom's welfare. Also Solar Flare is something you've totally brushed off. You keep laughing yet never EXPLAINING.Before I start, my favorite part of that comic was how Luna got blasted out of the sky by Nightmare Rarity and Celestia proceeded to just stand there and give a pep talk. SOLAR FLARE! Oh? No? Oh okay.
Neverending Night, Neverending Nightmares, one may take longer but the world would be uninhabitable in both.
You cannot say that it was Celestia's only option when a far superior option was found and prevented 1000 years without Rarity. According to the comic all it took was effort, any effort, Solar Flare should have been a part of that effort at minimum.

Solar Flare HAPPENED OUT OF CELESTIA'S CARE FOR HER SISTER. YOU CAN'T DENY THAT FACT AND SHE MEANT TO HURT THE ENEMY WHO HURT HER SISTER, NOT HER ACTUAL SISTER. Also looking at your page your theories for Luna are make me both cringe and laugh. Another reason to say "POOR MISUNDERSTOOD LUNA!!!!" You've came up with this world where Luna is a miserable sad blob when she clearly isn't. Luna is tough, hard headed and has no more hard feelings about Nightmare Moon. Flashbacks of her and Celestia in the cartoon have them working together to start Equestria. There was no hate between them or anything showing Luna was sad or had a bad childhood. This is just dumb fan speculation to create pity for a character. Never stated that Celestia didn't love her sister, once again. For the rest you would have to just ignore the entire opening scene of the show's Season 1 opener.

Celestia's event with Chrysalis doesn't mean she can't fight sometimes. She loves adventure but just doesn't get much of the chance to do it, like I sad. If she could have done that to Chrysalis then she could have damn destroyed Nightmare Moon, but she didn't want to. She just sealed her to keep her away from hurting her or her subjects. 
Chrysalis was never destroyed, she was put in a terrestrial prison. This is another option for Nightmare Moon, subdue the villain and instead of delegating reformation to 1000 years from now, apply the same method used on Nightmare Rarity which was to simply remember how much everyone cared for Rarity. RED FLAG.

Celestia's is a weird character just like Luna. Their bad traits fill out who they are. I think if Luna can get corrupted by jealously then Celestia can get corrupted by her need for having people to love and care for. Do you even read what you write? "Oh they both have bad traits! Celestia might get corrupted by being too angelic." Her only flaw is that she cares too much. Its just like a TV sitcom.
You throw a lot of accusations of others being fantards and yet you're just calling the kettle black.
Know that Celestia sacrificed a lot in her life to keep her kingdom safe, even her sister. To actually find happiness she obviously went overboard which was a dumb mistake. Things resolved themselves but she wasn't just doing it for herself as well but to also stop the reign of evil Luna and Celestia in the other world, causing Sombra's demise.Bending history, the shittiest of bullshit. The whole Sombra through the mirror incident was the finest example of Celestia's folly as a youth.
You've basically taken all of Celestia's bad faults and made it out she's the worst character for fucking up. When you pity Luna when she does the same. You're clearly biased. No point in denying that. No, I just acknowledge that she fucked up, the only one here who's biased is the one who writes that Celestia's primary flaw is "being too trusting".
You do realize that I have barely mentioned Luna literally this entire time? Do you realize that you're doing everything that you're accusing me of doing? Stating that Celestia keeps being betrayed because she's too trusting even in times where she acknowledges its her fault ISN'T PITY???
You're projecting.
You're projecting.
In case you didn't read it, You're projecting.
I was only replying in how Celestia did these things and why she isn't inherently "evil" as you said before. A folly of youth, not inherently evil demonstrated by the first two words I used in my original comment: "The once..." Which is not wrong in the context of the image, your going ape-shit is not warranted here. I've already noticed at least two comments besides my own of people calling you on your bullshit. You criticize how others see the story and lose your goddamned mind when someone disagrees with your view, its rude to attack the author so you engaged me instead for putting into words what the artist was portraying.
I don't understand why people try and make Celestia such an awful pony and Luna a weak baby out of it all. They are both strong and have managed. No reason to make it out it was more horrible.Yeah it might tarnish your view on Celestia and make you acknowledge that she has flaws beyond "she has too good a heart."
A character can make a mistake but that doesn't make her regret them and feel bad. Celestia is a very deep and interesting character in that way. I'm getting tired of arguing with you because clearly you just think POOR LUNA!!!! No matter what, even though Luna is fine. She's fine. She isn't damaged or hurt or whatever anymore but you still insist ON A CHARACTER NOT BEING HAPPY AND SAD. AGAIN, I've barely mentioned Luna directly, I've been talking about Celestia from the start. Also, no, Celestia is a very deep and interesting character in that way, so why are you doing all you can to make it not that way??? For everything that Celestia has done wrong you give a half-assed excuse on how it was never a mistake, just a by-product of Celestia having overly good traits.

But anyway about the "commoner BS" the comics are basically still going along during the cartoon time and LUNA IS STILL LIKE THAT.Luna has been portrayed inconsistently in every separate piece of media. She's been sad, rambunctious, formal, serious, silly, authoritative, adventurous and introverted. This character is evolving but I already know you will defer to least recent rambunctious characterization which might work but the one thing your argument lacks is malice on Luna's part.
Despite your narrative bending Luna is in no way malicious toward other ponies regardless of what age the writers decide to use to dictate her verbiage.

Also nice avoidance knowing Luna would obviously hate a person like you. Celestia would probably just look at you as you scream your little head off and try and tell you a lesson about friendship pftt. You're literally crazy head over heels for Luna, acting like Celestia is a tyrant JUST BECAUSE YOU FEEL LIKE SHE SHOULD BE to make Luna more sad. You're crushing a character for who she is. I love Luna. I love how she's sweet, posh, dorky, rude and a odd. She's good like that. None of this sad little sweet kind precious never done anything bad baby nonsense.Sounds like non-canon fan theory and "twisted stuff" to me.
You keep mentioning "Bad baby nonsense" which is funny because I haven't. Are you referring to the image? Because last I checked I didn't draw it.

Also Celestia COULD STEP IN AT ANY MOMENT TO HELP OUT TWILIGHT. But like I said, she knows her student's limitations. She respects them. Tell me that when Twilight dies on mission maybe then I'll agree with you, never mind the fact both Luna and Celestia have sent the mane 6 on missions.Its like Jesus! He's just biding his time, waiting for that perfect moment that will never come. Nevermind that only Luna has even once insisted on rendering assistance to Twilight and her friends.
Also that sounds like a great plan, keep pushing my protege harder, notify me when she breaks, then I'll pay attention.
And about the distant thing? I don't mean like she wasn't talking but more as SHE DIDN'T WANT TO TALK. Like I said the both had their jobs to take care of but if these Nightmare beings were taking over her do you really think she would be nice to Celestia? The one who the Nightmare forces wanted her to hate and kill? No, she'd probably be angry and moody at her. Be hard to talk to and confused the heck out of her. And The Nightmare forces work fast, as seen with Nightmare Rarity. So Celestia wouldn't even have had much of a chance before Luna turned. Celestia loved her sister yet you keep denying that again and again no matter what due to wanting to make Luna seem more and more sad.This is just a horrible excuse, "she said she didn't want to talk" would never hold up in any other context, just another free pass for Celestia.
The rest is extremely convenient theory that assumes that Luna became resentful overnight, she became Nightmare Moon in a matter of seconds but the resentment was over time based on the Season 1 opener.

You're just a crazy Luna fan you pushes so much pity on a pony who would not care for pity. Both princesses are good in their own ways and bad in the other. Your hate is pulled out of nothing but wanting Luna to seem sad and deep. Gimme some more your ignorant stubborn argument if you must. I know you're not listening to what I say anyway, crazy fans are the stubborn ones. Now I shall go hassle the artist on how his/her portrayal of Celestia deviates from my headcanon. Doesn't he/she know that Celestia was just too caring and trusting?
You're just a crazy Celestia fan you push so much pity on a pony who would not care for pity. Both princesses are good in their own ways and bad in the other. Your hate is pulled out of nothing but wanting Celestia to seem perfect and one-dimensional. Gimme some more your ignorant stubborn argument if you must. I know you're not reading to what I write anyway, crazy fans are the stubborn ones.

We're both calling each other crazy, but its you who is writing from inside the asylum.

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BlindCoyote In reply to SweetPegasi [2015-05-19 04:10:33 +0000 UTC]

But then again it is a show about colorful horses that people in a little room write, voice and animate for our viewing pleasure while we don't have much voice over (for the better). You people who take the show so seriously make me laugh.

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SweetPegasi In reply to BlindCoyote [2015-05-28 00:31:38 +0000 UTC]

Nah, extreme Luna fans are just so annoying.

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Icesticker In reply to SweetPegasi [2015-06-02 20:17:50 +0000 UTC]

says the extreme Celestia fan.

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