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Published: 2014-11-16 16:36:22 +0000 UTC; Views: 4447; Favourites: 175; Downloads: 112
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Description
This is the medieval, Romanesque chapel of the Templar preceptory in Laon (France). The church was constructed in the 12th C. and is one of the two best preserved Templar churches in France (the second one, later than Laon and based on its architecture, is in Metz). The order of the Templar knights was established in Jerusalem after it was captured by the crusaders and its primary goal was the protection of Christian pilgrims and pilgrimage sites in the Levant. With its goal of support of the newly established kingdom of Jerusalem, the order enjoyed the support of one of the most influential figures of the 12th C. Europe, Bernard of Clairvaux and soon become a powerful religious, financial and military institution with numerous lands, churches and castles held in Europe as well as the Holy Land. The Templar knights not only defended Christian realms from Muslims and Mongols (in central Europe) but also participated in attacks on Muslim realms in the Middle-East and Iberia. Even though the knights were always portrayed in propaganda as defenders, not attackers, the idea that a devout Christian was allowed to kill, even in self defense, was always controversial in Christianity and, despite the popularity of the military orders, not one of the knights who engaged in warfare was ever elevated to the status of a saint.
Today, Templar knights frequently feature in the popular culture and are associated with numerous myths and legends, most of which are absurd. To list just a few apart from DaVinci code or Assassin’s Creed, I also read that the Templars discovered America and inscribed the famous Kensington Runestone preserved there to this day, that they travelled to Africa and help construct the massive cathedrals in modern Sudan or that they were in fact atheists or occultists who secretly opposed Catholic church. Another false myth, though more intelligent, is that women were not allowed to enter the Templar Order. This is not true; although it was rare, historical sources mention Templar women and describe that they were admitted into the Order. In fact women are known to even obtain the rank of commanders with male knights under their command (which, perhaps sadly, does not mean that they participated in fighting).
One of the aspects of the Templar history which is rarely mentioned is the religious role o the Templars and their contribution to the development of western monasticism. Traditionally, monasteries were places of prayer where monks could isolate themselves from worldly matters. Thus, they were often located in remote locations that were difficult to access and close to wilderness associated with deserts described in the Bible. The Templar Order broke with that tradition and together with the Hospitallers was among the first monastic institutions established not to isolate its members from secular temptations but to interact with the lay society around it and serve its needs. As a consequence of that shift, Templar houses were frequently found in cities or along major trade and pilgrimage routes. Thus, the establishment of the military orders was a major step in the history of monasticism. The monastic ideas promoted by military orders were soon followed by others and new religious orders and monasteries were established within the Latin medieval cities. The list is quite long, but the most notable examples include mendicant orders; Dominicans and Franciscans as well as Carmelites. Many of these monastic orders still function today and still try to serve the needs of modern society by either providing medical service, or simply by preaching.
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Comments: 60
BricksandStones In reply to ??? [2017-03-27 18:07:38 +0000 UTC]
La ringrazio molto per il commento! Sono contento che ti piaccia! Sì - L'Italia è piena di bei monumenti medievali. Penso che la più famosa chiesa dei Templari in Italia è San Bevignate a Perugia. Ci sono alcuni bellissimi affreschi all'interno - turismo.comune.perugia.it/poi/… Grazie ancora!
Thank you very much for the comment! I am glad you like it! Yes - Italy is full of beautiful medieval monuments. i think the most famous Templar church in Italy is San Bevignate in Perugia. There are some beautiful frescoes inside - turismo.comune.perugia.it/poi/… . Check it out! Thank you again!
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BricksandStones In reply to InfinityUnlimited [2016-02-21 14:44:15 +0000 UTC]
I am glad you think so Thank you for taking the time to comment!
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HydromelKing [2016-02-02 16:46:39 +0000 UTC]
Un cadre vraiment apaisant pour une très jolie chapelle.
C'est une chance qu'elle soit aussi bien conservée
pour une construction du XII ème siècle.
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BricksandStones In reply to HydromelKing [2016-02-11 21:06:18 +0000 UTC]
Merci beaucoup pour le commentaire! Je suis désolé, je ne parle pas français. Je vous écris ceci avec google traduction. Je pense que la France a quelques-unes des plus belles églises romanes en Europe. Vous avez raison, il est étonnamment bien conservé, surtout pour une église des Templiers. Je lis qu'il n'y a que deux églises templières en France: à Laon et Metz. Laon est plus âgé et, à mon avis, plus belle. Merci pour le commentaire une fois de plus, je suis heureux d'avoir pris le temps de voir ce!
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HydromelKing In reply to BricksandStones [2016-02-11 22:06:26 +0000 UTC]
No problem, thanks for your answer. You're right in France
we have some of the most beautiful roman churches in
Europe and we also have a lot of beautiful gothic churches.
The legacy left by the templars is rare because of the
huge amount of destructions due to wars or others
human activities.
I know that in Poland too, there's a lot to see, I hope I will visit
your country one day !
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BricksandStones In reply to ClairObscur16 [2016-02-11 20:49:11 +0000 UTC]
Merci beaucoup pour le commentaire! Je suis désolé, je ne parle pas français. Je vous écris ceci avec google traduction. Je pense que la France a quelques-unes des plus belles églises romanes en Europe. Merci encore!
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ClairObscur16 In reply to BricksandStones [2016-02-12 15:28:22 +0000 UTC]
Ah! You don't speak french! It's a pity, it's not a shame!
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Lupa-Rutila [2015-04-19 18:38:08 +0000 UTC]
I like how You include green in You compositions
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BricksandStones In reply to Lupa-Rutila [2015-04-22 20:02:08 +0000 UTC]
Hi! Thank you for the comment! I am glad you like the greenery. It is great when architecture firs well with the surrounding nature, even if this means only some trees rather than majestic mountains, rivers etc. Thank you for taking your time to view this, I appreciate it!
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Lormet-Images [2015-01-04 18:42:33 +0000 UTC]
Wonderful photo and great history of the place!
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BricksandStones In reply to Lormet-Images [2015-01-09 21:40:03 +0000 UTC]
I was hoping you will like it Lori - it is not a famous monument but still, Laon was the most charming city we managed to visit in France. I enjoyed it more than Rheims or Metz. Thank you very much for taking your time to view, read the description and comment - I really appreciate it!
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dashinvaine [2014-12-14 01:37:52 +0000 UTC]
This is an attractive building, which I was aware of but haven't seen. (I've only been past Laon at a distance, close enough to see the towers of its cathedral). The Templar church is somewhat reminiscent of the octagonal church within the San Stefano complex in Bologna, which apparently predates the crusades.
The churches in Africa the Templars are supposed to have helped build are in Ethiopia, not Sudan. In Lalibela (formerly Roha), to be precise. That is actually one of the least far-fetched of the Templar legends and theories of recent times. The fact that the Templars' successor order, the Portuguese Knights of Christ, continued to take an interest in Ethiopia lends the notion some credence. I'm sure the Ethiopians could have built said churches on their own, and they seem local in style. Their builder, king Lalibela, supposedly spent some time in exile in Jerusalem, which had yet to fall to Saladin. I've not come across any Latin sources that mention his presence, but this is the story, and it's not impossible that Templars accompanied him home and assisted his assumption of power, in exchange perhaps for an offer of access to the Ark of the Covenant. Apparently there are medieval Coptic Christian writings mentioning the Ark, which Ethiopia claims, being in the custody of mysterious white men in that country, so - who knows?
As for Templar women, the rule discouraged the admission of females, the fact that it calls for the practice to be done away with might suggest that it women had already been invested at an early date. I'm not aware of any female Templars being interrogated at the time of the suppression, although I've seen one medieval illustration of some Templars being burned, which seems to include a female. If this is indeed a picture of Templars then that is interesting. :
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_…
I suspect it is misidentified. Aside from that, some married men donated their land to the Templars on condition they could retire among the brethren, and it seems separate accommodation was provided for the wives, away from the menfolk. At least one convent was also under Templar authority, but it would still be speculative to speak of female Templars. I have not heard of females being appointed as commanders. Where did you get that information? The Templars venerated numerous female saints, even if their rule told them to avoid mortal women, as a snare of the devil. (There were also rumours of carnal rites with female demons at the time of the suppression, it seems).
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BricksandStones In reply to dashinvaine [2014-12-16 05:20:19 +0000 UTC]
Thank you very much for the informative comment. You are quite right, I made a mistake and confused Nubia with Ethiopia. I recently applied for a job in Sudan so my mind is a bit preoccupied with medieval Nubia. I am trying to move back to Poland from England and I really hope I would be able to join Polish excavation team in Sudan. I only read this a few days ago but did you know that during the excavation of a medieval (8-14th C.) pilgrimage church dedicated to archangel Raphael in Banganarti (thats south of Old Dongola) archaeologists have found a Latin (Catalan or Provencal) inscription carved on the wall by a pilgrim named Benedict? I find it fascinating.
About the church, I agree that the plan of the church in Laon resembles Bologna. Octagonal and circular churches were build in Europe before the crusades. This is not my area of specialization but I suppose this type of layout allowed for better movement of pilgrims and ceremonial processions around the church. Although of course, the origins of this model must be more complicated. Btw. I have been in San Stefano during my honeymoon trip to Italy. The only thing I remember is that the Romanesque sculptures inside were very beautiful!
About Lalibela. Do you really think it is possible that the Templars were involved in the carving of medieval churches there? I have to admit I was not aware that knights of Christ took interest in Ethiopia. Was this in the 14th C.? From what I know, Portugal established contacts with Ethiopia in the 16th C., I am not sure whether memory of Ethiopia could survive within the Order for so long without leaving traces in historical records. I remember reading that when Portuguese ships reached Ethiopia, it was widely believed they found the kingdom of Prester John - the mythical Christian Kingdom in the east which features in many medieval sources. . Also, Lalibela is carved in the rock and its architecture is very different from European churches. From what I remember it shows links with the monastery in Debre Dano and other Ethiopian sites. On the other hand I know of a single, 14th C. source which mentions Ethiopians among the Christians living in Famagusta, Cyprus - so maybe there was some contact (the source is Life of St. Peter Thomae writted by Phillip of Meziers). You may be right but to be honest, I think it sounds very unlikely.
About Templar women. It is interesting that you think women Templars are 'speculative' but Templar involvement in Ethiopia is worth consideration. You are right, or at least I think you are, that there were no female Templars during the suppression of the Order. At least not on Cyprus. I also do not think any women were killed during the suppression so you are also right about the picture. The article on Templar women which inspired me to write this description was published in the edited volume -' Hospitaller Women in the Middle Ages' edited by Helen Nicholson and Anthony Luttrell. Even though the title mentions only Hospitallers, the articles inside deal with all major military orders including Templars and Teutonic knights - here you can check the table of contents, www.ashgate.com/pdf/SamplePage… - I remember that Templar Female commanders are mentioned in the first article: Women and the Military Orders in the Twelfth and Thirteenth Centuries by Alan Forey. I do not remember the details as I read it some time ago and now I am a bit distracted because of the accident with my dog but I am sure you will find relevant references there. Thank you very much for taking your time to view and comment. As always, I really appreciate your comments! All the best!
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dashinvaine In reply to BricksandStones [2014-12-16 22:59:16 +0000 UTC]
Yes, I would also like to visit these lands. Ancient Meroe and medieval Axum are particularly intriguing civilisations. I didn't know about the evidence of Latin pilgrims in that part of the world. Very fascinating. Apparently Sudanese Muslims in Egyptian service were among the defenders of Jerusalem when the First Crusade stormed the city, and Sudanese warriors were also in Saladin's armies. Such rulers as Saladin also extended Islamic control over what remained of Christian Sudan. Christian Ethiopian pilgrims and monks were also apparently present in the Holy Land throughout the Crusader period, although I haven't been able to corroborate that the future king Lalibela came or had dealings with the Templars. (Ethiopian rule once extended into Southern Arabia, and prior to the advent of Islam Ethiopia's influence extended well into the Arabian Peninsula. Mecca itself was under Ethiopian occupation a little prior to the time of Muhammad.
I regard Templar involvement in Ethiopia as a speculative supposition, but I don't think it's a wild idea (compared to the occult theories that exist, for example). I don't know if the Templars had any part in the carving of the sunken churches of Lalibela. They are of the right period, but there is no smoking gun. The 'Templar crosses' some have identified there were not uncommon in the Coptic church. To judge by the photos I've seen, the style of the buildings is indigenous, with faint, bastardiased traces of Byzantine, Arabian, Herodian and Egyptian influence. There again there is no Templar style- Templar churches are invariably in the style suited to their location.
Yes, the Portuguese, including members of the Order of Christ, took a great interest in Ethiopia. Christovao da Gama, the son of Vasco, died in Ethiopia leading a crusade, aiding the local Christians against Muslim encroachment, in the 1540s. The Order of Christ, which inherited the Templars' estates in Portugal seems to have played a leading role in the Age of Exploration, which had a crusading component to it. The discovery of new routes to the Holy Land were one of the motivations for the attempts to sail around Africa and to cross the Atlantic. Ethiopia was indeed also sometimes associated with the realm of Prester John who was imagined as a potential ally against Islam.
The Rule of the Templars is fairly clear in stating that women are not to be admitted, and indeed that Templars should avoid the presence of females. Affiliated nuns were less unusual with the Order of the Hospital because of their hospitality function, and the need to attend to female pilgrims in need of accommodation or medical care.
What happened to your dog? Nothing serious I hope...
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BricksandStones In reply to dashinvaine [2014-12-16 23:39:47 +0000 UTC]
Thank you for the comment Gordon. If you want, I can sent you materials about the medieval frescoes discovered by Polish archaeologists in the monastery of Holy Trinity near Old Dongola. The materials have 1,3 GB with a lot of photos and drawings, they were on a CD attached to a monumental volume about the monastery published in Warsaw few years ago. They are in a form of webpage in English. If you give me your email address I can send you a link to my Dropbox folder with them.
You are right that there was no distinct style of Templar architecture. I knew about Portugal's role in establishing contact between Europe and Ethiopia but I had no idea about the role of the knights of Christ in this process. Interesting. From what I remember, Saladin did not conquer medieval Nubia. This happened much later, in the early 14th C. - the cathedral in Faras, near the southern border of Egypt continued to function until the 14th C. but it may be that Nubian kings paid some form of tribute to Cairo. Of course you are right that it is more likely that the Templars visited Ethiopia than that they discovered America. I still think its unlikely but it is certainly not impossible. One of the documented stories of this sort is about a Templar prisoner named Walter of Marengiers who visited a Syrian monastery in Saydnaya durig his return from the prison in Damascus to Jerusalem. He described the monastery in detail and it became a popular pilgrimage site included in the Latin guides to the Holy Land. He even brough a fial of Holy oil from Saydnaya to the Templar house at Peñiscola. I wrote an article about this, if everything goes well, it should be published next year.
About Templar women. I do not remember individual examples but please check the article, I am sure it is well documented, the author is a well know specialist. Also, Hospitaller nuns were quite numerous and had their own nunneries. For example in Sigena (Aragon) and in Bethany near Jerusalem. They were major pilgrimage shrines so sometimes Hospitaller nunneries played important religious roles. There were some in England as well, not far from Swindon but I do not remember the name. If I ever manage to get a PdF with that article I will send it to you.
About the dog. Its quite serious I am afraid. Together with my wife we made an event about this, if you are interested here are some links but do not feel obliged to visit them bricksandstones.deviantart.com… and akitku.deviantart.com/journal/… Thanks for the comment - its a pleasure to talk about these things!
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dashinvaine In reply to BricksandStones [2014-12-19 13:59:42 +0000 UTC]
That's good of you, my email is giaour94@hotmail.com I'm sure I'd be interested.
Saladin's brother Turanshah partially conquered Nubia, but that may not have been a lasting thing. The Ayyubids were more interested in suppressing the Fatimid Shiites than the Coptic Christians, anyway. Apparently other Ayyubid sultans used Sudanese guards, who were later liquidated in favour of Mameluks (who later liquidated the Ayyubids....)
I don't think the nuns at Bethany were Hospitallers, but the site did later come under Hospitaller control. The original nuns were Augustinians, one of their early abbesses being Yoveta, the sister of Queen Melisende. (I wrote a bit about this during my dissertation on sites in the Latin East associated with veneration of St Mary Magdalene (who was sometimes identified with Mary of Bethany, the sister of Martha and Lazarus, who was raised from the dead). Am familiar with Helen Nicholson's work, and that she has dug up a few obscure and exceptional references to Templar sisters.
Shame about your dog (which is a beaurtiful dog). My dog Buster also gets terribly panicked by fireworks, and I don't think much of the neighbours who decide to let them off for weeks either side of bonfire night. I'm also reminded of my unfortunate uncle, who had two dogs in succession both get killed running out onto the road. Sounds like your dog was lucky to survive at all. I was looking for a good cause to donate to. I'm disillusioned with regular charities because I know how much money they waste on junk mail, managers, graphic design and office furniture. Plus I'm fond of dogs. (I know someone who has a dog that lost its back leg, and that can still outrun Buster, not that Buster is as speedy as he once was, due to age and good living.)... So I just made a donation... I didn't select a 'perk' since you are already sending me some reading matter (but perhaps we can do an art exchange in the future).
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BricksandStones In reply to dashinvaine [2014-12-19 16:03:23 +0000 UTC]
Wow, thank you very much for your support! This really meas a lot to us, if the accident would happen half a year ago I would have no trouble providing Thessa with all she needs. Right now however, I struggle with the final editing of my PhD, the funding is mostly gone and my new job in Warsaw Academy of Sciences, if I get it, starts only in September so we are basically living out of savings. I am sorry to hear about your uncle's dogs. Especially now, I can well understand how terrible the loss of two dogs must have been. The feeling of responsibility for the animal can be quite overwhelming even when there is very little one could actually do to prevent the accident. So, thank you very much once again. After the operation, there is a chance Thessa will recover and be able to walk normally or even run! I have been warned not to be overly optimistic but well, as long as there is chance there is hope
About the murals - I have sent you a link to my dropbox folder - let me know if it works and you can access the materials on the webpage. One of the most interesting murals is the one depicting ritual dances in masks in front of a holy icon of Virgin Mary. You might also be interested to know south of Old Dongola there is a pilgrimage church dedicated to Archangel Raphael. It is located in Banganarti. Archaeologists who excavated it have discovered a 13th C. French inscription (Provencal or Catalan) written by a pilgrim named Benedict.
I admit that the references concerning Templar women are not numerous and not always clear. I just thought that people would find them interesting and there is still much more credit to them than to fantastic stories involving America, Da Vinci's code and etc. Your point about Bethany is true of course, Hospitaller nuns obtained this nunnery in the 13th C. when Jerusalem was briefly regained. In a similar way, knights of St. John were give the pilgrimage site on Mount Tabot - just to protect it from Islamic forces. Your dissertation sounds very interesting! Thank you very much once again, it sounds automatic but this really means a lot to me!
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dashinvaine In reply to BricksandStones [2014-12-25 13:28:59 +0000 UTC]
Hi BricksandStone, and merry Christmas by the way. Hope you and yours (dog included) are having a good day.
Apparently I did know about the female Templar preceptor, but I must have forgotten the fact. I actually told someone else about it in a conversation I came across from nine years ago, backed up on my computer, which I found while I was looking for something else:
DASHINVAINE: they didn't have our hang ups obviously
[14:47:11] DASHINVAINE: same with whitby
[14:47:52] Perforated T: that's another reason I liked the
hospitallers. the women were allowed to contribute nearly
as much as the men. they just could go to war.
[14:48:05] Perforated T: couldn't
[14:49:02] DASHINVAINE: indeed
[14:50:20] Perforated T: what could a templar woman do.. oh wash
clothes. milk cows. um.... stay the hell away from the
preceptory.
[14:50:57] DASHINVAINE: helen nicholson reckons there was a preceptrix
in a certain preceptory in spain
[14:51:17] Perforated T: i thought it was germany. not spain
[14:51:39] Perforated T: if she's got the proof i can give creedence
to that, but it would be extraordinary and not the
ordinary
[14:52:04] DASHINVAINE: no, they had a convent in muhlen ingermany as
well, this spanish one seems to have headed a regular
preceptory
[14:52:17] Perforated T: that's two she knows of then.
[14:52:50] DASHINVAINE: implicitly the latter was in charge of
knights
[14:53:18] DASHINVAINE: i seem to remember reading of another convent
in northern france
[14:53:31] Perforated T: how in the world. then they must have not
followed their rules very closely at all.
[14:53:44] Perforated T: not as closely as templario and other
scholars would make out
[14:54:04] DASHINVAINE: maybe they thought the rule was only taling
about nasty women
[14:54:08] DASHINVAINE: talking
[14:54:37] Perforated T: i don't know, but i suppose if you have
enough money and lands anything goes.
[14:55:41] DASHINVAINE: absolutely
[14:56:21] DASHINVAINE: at the end of the day, if someone is offering
money and land and support, they weren't going to apply the
'have you got a penis' test too rigorously
[14:56:43] DASHINVAINE:
[14:56:54] DASHINVAINE: as it were
[14:57:17] Perforated T: lol. LMAO.
[14:58:47] Perforated T: sometimes you can put things so blantantly
mate
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BricksandStones In reply to dashinvaine [2015-01-02 01:43:37 +0000 UTC]
Hi Gordon, thank you for the update. It is interesting that the scant evidence for women acquiring positions in Templar preceptories is not limited to a single region. I like the idea of female Templars, even if they were very rare occurrences, I think they can make the Templar Order more interesting for women. You know, the type of stories, if you really want something - nothing is impossible. Although obviously in this case it was, if you really want something and you are very rich - nothing is impossible Thanks again and happy New Year to you too!
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pawelotti [2014-11-28 12:54:19 +0000 UTC]
Dobre zdjęcie
Jak zawsze fajnie, że wrzucasz dłuższe opisy pod zdjęciami. Szkoda tylko, że budynek jest tak zaniedbany
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BricksandStones In reply to pawelotti [2014-12-16 03:02:07 +0000 UTC]
Hej Pawel, dzieki za komentarz - straszie ostatnio zawalam DA, ostatni miesiac mialem naprawde ciezki ale naprawde milo mi ze zdjecie Ci sie podoba. Mowiac szczerze budynek nie byl bardzo zaniedbany - w srodku byla taka mala ekspozycja z paroma detalami architektonicznymi - calkiem czysto. Moze temu dachowi przydalby sie remont ale oprocz tego widzialem zabyki w duzo gorszym stanie - troche zapomniany to prawda, jakos we Francji mozna odniesc wrazenie ze sredniowieczne zabytki sa mniej zadbane niz na przyklad w takiej Anglii... Dzieki za komentarz jeszcze raz - jak zawsze bardzo mi milo!
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pawelotti In reply to BricksandStones [2014-12-16 08:54:50 +0000 UTC]
Nie ma sprawy
Odnośnie deviantarta mogę powiedzieć, że ja nie jestem w ogóle aktywny jeśli chodzi o jakiekolwiek zdjęcia, moje okropne rysunki czy cokolwiek innego. Jakoś nie mogę się za to zabrać. Jak zwykle zazdroszczę Ci odwiedzin w takich miejscach
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BricksandStones In reply to LadyMarg [2014-12-16 02:20:48 +0000 UTC]
Hej! Dzieki za komentarz i przepraszam za pozna odpowiedz! Ostatni miesiac byl dla mnie bardzo ciezki, moj pies mial wypadek i jakos nie moglem sie zabrac za DA... ale jak zawsze milo mi ze ktores z moich zdjec zwrocilo twoja uwage Dzieki!
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BricksandStones In reply to mecengineer [2014-12-16 01:31:28 +0000 UTC]
I am glad you think so! Thank you! A comment from a talented photographer like you is always appreciated! Also, sorry for takig so log to reply - the last month was very difficult for me.
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peterpateman [2014-11-18 13:18:34 +0000 UTC]
I'm always interested in the debunking of Myths!
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BricksandStones In reply to peterpateman [2014-11-26 13:44:05 +0000 UTC]
Debunking of myths is a pleasurable activity though, to be honest, this is mostly flogging dead horses as most popular myths have been disproved long ago but because they are popular, they survive anyway... Still, thank you for the comment! As always, I really appreciate it!
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akrassia [2014-11-17 18:38:51 +0000 UTC]
Perfect. Both the picture and the description. The templars were awesome, it's great that you tried to debunk some here. I especially dislike this occultist myth of the templars, it's so stupid.
But female commanders? Really? Can you recommend what I could read about this?
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BricksandStones In reply to akrassia [2014-11-26 13:40:49 +0000 UTC]
Hi! Sorry it took me so long to answer your comment, I had to check where the article on Templar women was published. I was in ' Hospitaller Women in the Middle Ages' edited by Helen Nicholson and Anthony Luttrell. Even though the title mentions only Hospitallers, the articles inside deal with all major military orders including Templars and Teutonic knights - here you can check the table of contents, www.ashgate.com/pdf/SamplePage… - I remember that Templar Female commanders are mentioned in the first article: Women and the Military Orders in the Twelfth and Thirteenth
Centuries by Alan Forey. Thank you very much for taking your time to view and comment, I am very glad this caught your attention, it is always a pleasure to see that some people are still interested in medieval history not just pop fan fiction Thank you very much again and sorry for late response!
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akrassia In reply to BricksandStones [2015-01-09 12:11:35 +0000 UTC]
I'm sorry to only be replying now. I was pretty busy with school and all. Anyway, thanks for the book recommendation, I will check if it is in our library. It sounds like something that would be of great interest to me.
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NausetSouth [2014-11-17 02:39:53 +0000 UTC]
Again an artful image. Thanks for posting. Also thanks for the in depth discussion. I think they will always be a bit of a mystery. Allot has been written about The Templars, but much of it was written with an agenda. I don't think we will ever fully understand the order.
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BricksandStones In reply to NausetSouth [2014-11-19 18:23:54 +0000 UTC]
Thank you for the comment Bryan - as always I really appreciate it - somehow artists often can provide more extensive comments than photographers, it may be just a subjective impression but still... I think one should made a strong distinction between the academic literature dealing with the Templars and popular studies. In many ways I think we already fully understand the Templar Order. Of course there will always be some room for new observations and discussions but in essence, the modern understanding of the Templar Order is complete just as the modern understanding of other monastic institutions like Knights of St. Lazarus or Benedictines is complete. The discussions are often held on a level that deals with details that hardly modify the general picture - for example what was the social composition and average age of Templar knights on Cyprus and France. Also, one can discuss to what extend the order was involved in individual political disputes but this type of questions can always be asked just as it will always be possible to discuss other matters - like Baltic crusades in general or the development of cities in medieval Europe. You are absolutely right, that Templar studies are marked with strong agenda because of their relation to the crusades, compared with modern Islamist jihad etc. However, this does not really affect the state of actual knowledge about the order. At least I think so... Sorry for longish response, I really appreciate your comment, thank you for taking your time to write it! Also, thanks for viewing, as always!
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charcoalfeather [2014-11-16 23:00:14 +0000 UTC]
Hm, interesting point about Templars' contribution to the monasticism. Yes, people just usually think of Assassin's Creed's idea of Templars, which is a bit...conspirational, as if they've managed to last so long throughout the centuries and do so many things.
I like this design. Kind of reminds me of one of the buildings in my university. I think it was influenced by Romanesque architecture as well.
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BricksandStones In reply to charcoalfeather [2014-11-19 17:49:47 +0000 UTC]
Thank you for the comment Ermek - I am glad you find the monasticism bit interesting, to be honest I think this is the most 'educated' part of my description - I mentioned this argument in my MA thesis, it is based on a 2010 book by Jonathan Rilley-Smith, one of the big authorities on the military orders who did some really great studies on their religiosity, the cult of relics etc. The book is entitled 'Templars and Hospitallers as professed religious in the holy land', it is one of my favourite books. I really do not like the modern obsession with the Templars, the modern perception of the order and stories associate with it are so full of... well, frankly bullshit. Still, your university sounds like a very nice place, I wish the University of Reading would have some nice looking buildings... Thank you for the comment - I appreciate it!
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charcoalfeather In reply to BricksandStones [2014-11-19 18:02:25 +0000 UTC]
It's not a problem.
Your MA thesis sounds very interesting! I have yet (and probably will not for a while) to take any masters level courses.
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BricksandStones In reply to YulianEruannoNoldor [2014-11-19 17:42:43 +0000 UTC]
I am glad you think so! It is not very impressive in terms of size or decoration but I really liked it, it seemed more 'real' than the Templar churches in London or Metz... Thank you for the comment! As always, I appreciate it!
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YulianEruannoNoldor In reply to BricksandStones [2014-11-20 11:57:23 +0000 UTC]
size is not matter (one thing men never will fully understand, I´m afraid)!
some village/small churches are very lovely, and if they got some interested who care, they are easier to maintain&be crowded than a cathedral, in fact
I have worked on some village church towers, it´s sth. very different to city churches ^^
In one tower, I made test strikes with the clapper to see if the striking point is exakt.... minutes later I had 10 people standing in front of church, asking if sth. happened or whether somebody died !^^
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BricksandStones In reply to PtPool [2014-11-19 17:41:18 +0000 UTC]
Hi! Thank you for the comment! I hope you see this even though I did not reply in time before you deactivated your account... I really appreciate your comment!
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davidfriedrich [2014-11-16 21:04:25 +0000 UTC]
Non nobis Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam!
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BricksandStones In reply to davidfriedrich [2014-11-19 17:38:40 +0000 UTC]
Nice, to be honest even though I understood the meaning of this psalm (the Latin here is fairly simple even for someone like me who studied Latin only for one year ages ago...) I still had to check online how it is related to the Templars. Now I know so thank you very much, I learned something new thanks to you Until now I only new that the Teutonic knights sang Christ ist Erstanden in their commanderies and, supposedly, before battles. Thank you for the comment! I appreciate it!
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akitku [2014-11-16 20:51:32 +0000 UTC]
I love the picture, but I think even more I love your description. There is just so much misconception about the templars... Much of it bordering on the ridiculus. And don't even get me started on Assasin's Creed...seriously...It really was a pleasure to read what you wrote! Thank you!
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BricksandStones In reply to akitku [2014-11-18 12:57:22 +0000 UTC]
Hi Akitku! I am so glad you like the description, to be honest, when I was writing it I was hoping you are gone like it. The misconception about the Templars can be really annoying, I was so exited after I saw the first trailer to Assassin's Creed but when I realized what the plot was I was, well, shattered! Thank you very much for taking your time to comment, as always, its a pleasure to read!
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akitku In reply to BricksandStones [2014-11-18 13:07:57 +0000 UTC]
I know exactly what you mean. That was my experience also! I was so disappointed.
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