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Cailiosa — DAmn DA
Published: 2006-05-18 04:37:21 +0000 UTC; Views: 3482; Favourites: 32; Downloads: 146
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IMPORTANT: I HAVE MOVED!!! TO VIEW MORE ART GO TO*laughing*
I'm letting off some steam.
I was banned not too long ago, for those who didn't know, for "singling out" an art thief.
Of course I was just concerned for the artists "they" had stolen from, but I got 2 images deleted (because they appeared to be under 18, which they were not) and banned.
NOW my husband is on probation because of ONE image that DA deemed too sexual, though there was no genitals showing.
Last I checked love between a husband and wife is beautiful and therefor should be considered artistic.
It's not just me, I know tons of people being banned, having images deleted, and so forth.
The only reason I can justify this gross imparment of judgment is alcohol.
Hence the bottle
Isn't art supposed to be the ultimate form of free speech?
Isn't art supposed to reflect our creative thought and feelings?
Isn't DA headquarters in the U.S., the supposive land of the free?
I may get killed for this one, if so, see ya else where
Edit:
This is not meant to be offensive. I'm just saying this just in case any admins take a gander... if it is offensive, please just tell me. I won't put up a fight I promise
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Comments: 51
I may not have put any work on here being 'banned' worthy but I understand that it's bloody stupid that work that can be put in a fetish category (or in any place that is right for the photo, remember people on DA can put the whole censor thing if they wont to see these 'distgusting' pictures) or not even sexual at all but still showing some flesh can be banned. I remember seeing a photo of a crotch shot of a woman taking a pee, now that's not my thing but the artist should be allowed to show the picture, in my opinion even though I don't like it there is nothing wrong with it since it is in the fetish category. Still I don't like seeing good work being pulled because the damn DA mod's think it's wrong, god art is suppose to be about freedom, it express one's mind! And a site like this shouldn't be putting walls around that it's not fair!
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I totally agree ^_^
I think bud told me you had an image deleted for a woman milking?
That's absolutely ridiculous!
When did that become an unacceptable thing?
Actually I've been wondering for a while now when did sex itself become something less than beautiful?
Bud had an image of his character and mine "implyingly" making love, but that's because we're husband and wife and it's supposed to be a beautiful artistic thing...
I think you said something about how big chested girls are perceived as being "slutty" for the sheer fact they have a big chest, and thats true... but I also realized that flat chested skinny girls get a bad rap here on DA too because they are seen as being children and minors...
I know a guy who is a great fetish photographer, had an image of a girl who was bound and on her knees with a bowl of food in front of her... she was topless but had a skirt on and there was nothing sexual about the image at all except that her chest was exposed, and since she was skinny DA removed it because they told him that she was underage..
EVEN THOUGH he had the model's release form and proof that she was over the age of 20....
It just seems that DA admins have WAY too much leash when it comes to their artistic taste and deleting accordingly...
if an admin had created your picture and posted it I highly doubt it would have been deleted.
I also would bet that it was some girl who felt your picture was degrading to women who reported you
We've had a couple of extremist feminists heckle on our sites...
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oh just to tell you it wasn't me who had that picture removed it was ~JohnnySwell who had it removed and he has a nice long journal about it
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why would 3d rendered porn be an answer? The problem isn't with the porn, I agree that we shouldn't have porn on DA. My problem is DA's delete happy fingers. Like thweatted did a flash with power puff girls to the song "yakkity yak" and they deleted it because she didn't get permission from cartoon network (or whatever co. owns it)...
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Renderotica ( which is for 2D as well ) would gladly house the art...
"that DA deemed too sexual, though there was no genitals showing."
As for DAs random deletion button:
yeah they suck, totally agree with you. Maybe they reason they co-own the art (that submission agreement is nasty) and fear that while you as a person might not be sued, they as a company will.. *shrugs*
About the porn:
totally disagree. Porn is mature content and for that we have the [Mature Content] box. Works for violence and foul language as well.
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but there is more to adult art than porn. The difference being the purpose behind the work in question. If it is meant to arouse a sense of sexuality in the individual looking at it then it is porn. If it is meant to glorify the beauty of human anatomy, then it is not. Since a website as large as this one cannot go through every single image before it is put onto the website, it has the general rule of "no explicitly sexual images, no penetration, and no implied penetration of any kind". I believe that artistic images with mature content should be kept on DA, but porn should not because this is an ART website. Porn can never be art.
The argument about what is porn and what isn't, though, is the real issue.
Examples: (obviously m rated images ahead)
art - [link]
porn - [link]
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So you are saying that art may inspire feelings and/or though... except lust - because that makes it porn, and porn is not art?
Just curious
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lust and horny are different... there is a fine line between art and porn, and to be honest it really depends on the person looking at it. I've seen some artwork that other's consider porn, but really it is just very sensual. However, porn can never be art.
It's just that the true defineing line between porn and I guess "artistic erotica" is really, really fuzzy.
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You also forget:
"Isn't a deviant one who defys modern convention?" Cause the mods seem to hate anthros, atleast some. Welcome back, cute pic.
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Yeah I also thought it was a little ironic that they seem overly strict with the rules (at least with most people) and yet this IS "Deviant Art"
And I think it's not so much anthro they hate, but yiff...
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All work and no banning makes the DA community filled with morons.
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I have seen some unneccesary deletes going on on deviant art. But it's not so much as they hate you it's much more so they are scared to death of getting the Feds ramming a shutdown warrent up their ass for having child porn.
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really, I think it's more about their sponsors than the feds
Moral professionality.
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Oh gee. Most artists don't get the message at all. Perhaps they should read this FAQ for clarification on why poronographic and sexually explicit materials aren't allowed: FAQ #565: You prohibit the submission of 'pornographic material'; what do you consider this to be?
DeviantArt is NOT just about free speech, it's about their policies. Sadly, freedom of speech is limited when it comes to what we can say and what we can submit. If deviants abuse their freedom of speech (via comment or submission), they end up breaking the rules. Believe me, I was suspended for at least a week for a comment that I made towards another user who served a two-week suspension for harassment and threatening behaviour towards an deviant that got banned and data purged for chronic art theft last month. Up until that point, people have been pissed off about my behaviour and interaction towards deviants and if they're gonna try to get me suspended again or possibly banned, they're barking up the wrong tree.
Deviants also have a right to say whatever they want towards the administrators as long as it isn't a personal attack against them.
There are two problematic factors that cause some deviants to express their opinion and use artwork as a way to abuse the freedom of speech on dA:
1. People had rights to submit yaoi or yuri related materials, but on some of their submissions, they've went way beyond that as some of the drawings were somehow deemed pornographic or sexually explicit. Such content like that earn them a one week suspension at a minimum and the more explict the materials get deleted, the longer the suspension. Most people don't care about what they submit and if it gets to far, they could get killed off and have their data purged.
2. Art theft is problem that has plagued the internet for years. On dA itself, artists have became victim of art theft to a point where they take this issue to their own hands. And when they do that, they end up point out a art theif in their journal thus launching a mob attack against an art theif. And launching a mob attack is not a way to get things done and overwith...and it will most likely lead to administrators handing out punishments for those that get involved in mob rule as well as the individual who pointed out a art theif in their journal.
That's something deviants need to think more about because deviants have been banned for dA-style abuse of freedom of speech.
However, on a side note, I like this piece. The shading on Fella turned out pretty well.
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Thanks for the comment ^_^
I will admitt that the art thief that I posted a journal about was bombed with comments and accusations. Really and truely I never intended that to happen and didn't think about what would happen, like most people I'm sure they didn't stop to think.
Really and truely I wish I could take back posting up the entry because I SHOULD have stopped and thought about the consequences...
Really, I'm not argueing against most of the rules (I only think there should be more lienency on sexual content..) but I only wish DA admins would first ask the person to remove material and journals themselves. If the deviant disagrees then I think DA should do it themselves. But really, I had no idea that it was wrong to post a journal up about an art thief. Really I was just worried that other people I knew were being stolen from and had no idea =/
But really when you think about it, isn't it a bit silly to say "You have a freedom of speach but you can't say what you want"
I don't want people to be harrassed, but at the same time what is the cost of placing rules on what we can and can't say? Where is the line between protection and infringment?
Again thanks for you comment, and thanks for the compliment ^_^
really, I think my drawing is kinda cute
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You're welcome for the compliment.
dA at times can suspend or ban deviants based on their actions that they committed with little or no warning that the deviants themselves should be aware of that. ^_^
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Offensive? I find this piccy extremely cute in a sense 
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I understand completley. I got kicked off last year and accused of hacking my own account, stealing my own art and uploading it somewhere else, and ruining my own personal ID. DA really needs a whack over the head. Jark was ok, from what i hear he hated the furry artists, but he never had an issue with me. I hate the new owner Spyed, because instead of helping me he was a total jerk to me! This is funny though. If you get kicked off, dont worry, DA is just extreemly stupid.
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Thanks for the imput ^^
I'm sure spyed feels he is just doing his job, but I would wish for a bit more understanding.
We don't all read the rules in detail and therefor we don't always know when we are violating those rules.
Some would say it is our responsibilty to read all of the rules, which is true. But at the same time, I would ask the admins to be realistic.
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lol I agree. The admins really should be understanding. I still cant comprehend how you hack your own account though. O_o thats just stupid... you know the password XD wow, u rly hacked it then. XD
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I don't know either... unless you forgot the password XD
That situation really is wierd ^^
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Well, DA has its flaws, yes, but... but...
Uh, good think piece here.
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And I know it will always have flaws because flawed humans run it...
I just wish they would let us delete our own offensive material... because sometimes we just don't realize it is offensive...
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Well, let's face it- it comes down to the fact that they don't like it. They can say what they want about "rules", but from what I've seen, a lot of times deleting and banning is their way of bitching about what they think of an art piece. Some people really shouldn't be given positions of control, especially if they try to apply their views on art via such methods.
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must kill it!!!! ><..if that keeps goin,we'll kick DA!!!
awsome graphical
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I long ago figured out they weren't interested in art when they started adding restrictions and disclaimers about sexuality to the fiction section. I've fully expected a story to be pulled for being "too explicit" but so far nothing I've posted has. I'm still waiting for the hammer to drop.
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Yeah, probably means they just havn't visited your page yet
My two images that were deleted were up for almost a year... then I get in all that stupid trouble with an art thief and they go "Oh hey, these are bad!"
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So I guess the bottom line is that if you rat out a thief, you get punished in return? Great system they have here.
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Well, the rule I broke is your not allowed to specify violations or violators in journals or comments... if all I had done was reported the thief to a DA admin, then I wouldn't have gotten banned
But at the same time, it isn't like I knew it was wrong to warn other artists in a journal entry about a thief.
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The list of rules you could accidentally break around here is so long I'm starting to wonder why people bother with dA any more, especially since the ads are getting more and more commercial all the time.
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Hope things go back to normal =3. i know things will be ok =3
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I understand...
Well, actually... I've never been there. Never had a pic deleted, nor been banned, even though I've done things far mroe racey than some of the artists who do get banned... >_<;;
But I have to agree... something stinks around here... >_>;
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Well really, DA is not a country and we are not its free citizenry - it is a corporation and a service, and when we apply to use it we agree to the terms and conditions laid out for us before we signed up. If we want to use their service, we follow their rules. Singling out an art thief is technically harassment - underage characters in sexual situations is very common here, and thus they err on the side of caution - and even if sex is implied and not graphically shown, they have the right to remove because they do still have a no sex rule. In fact I'm surprised at some of the things I've gotten away with, but I won't be when they're taken down. We may not agree with them all the time, but we did technically agree to abide by the rules they are well within their rights to make. Thankfully we can also appeal when we feel something has been done in error.
I doubt you'll get killed for this, though ^^
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But they need to TELL us what the rules are first.
Just saying "We don't allow sexual content" doesn't tell us WHAT they consider to be sexual content.
Before being so quick to the delete or ban button they should TELL us "hey, this is against our rules, please remove it within 24 hours"
Is that so hard??
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Except it's not their job to try and give god knows how many offenders a second chance. Things are slow enough ALREADY. And like I said, it's their site so it's their rules, and when you sign up they lay it out for you. And they're quite clear on their policies - type "sex" into the Help and FAQ section and you'll get no less than six results in the Policies: Nudity and Mature Content section alone, the first of which details quite clearly just what it is they consider too sexual. These are parts of the agreements and terms of service we've signed who knows how many times now, and unless you just weren't paying attention you would know that yes, we have already been TOLD what the rules are. They aren't hidden, they aren't new, and they aren't vague. Ignorance of the law is not a defense.
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If it's their job to give offenders second chances, then why didn't I get a second chance? Why did I get punished? Why did people like S2X get banned without a word for having "too many" nude images? I didn't get banned for "harrassment" I got banned for "singling out another member of deviant art". Seems to me that I should have been given a second chance, or at least a chance to delete the "offensive" journal on my own accord. How was I supposed to know that saying "Hey guys, I know two people already who have had their art stolen by this person, you may want to see if she has stolen anything of yours".
I was not offensive, I did not use profanity, I did not yell at her or threaten her, I did not flood her with comments. I only warned others of her thievery.
And I get banned.
And about those policies, I've read them, especially about the part about sexual content, and NONE of them applied to my images except one little BS sentence ". Your nude submission should obviously possess some artistic merit as judged by a reviewing member of the staff."
What gives them the right to deem something artistic or not? On top of that (considering my images were deleted because they "appeared" under the age of 18) if you are a photographer you can submitt the model release form and prove your model is over 18. If you draw, your not allowed to give any proof.
I'm not saying DA isn't doing their job, I'm saying they are doing it with poor judgment and a quick ban finger. All I'm asking for is warning. TALK to your people, ASK them to delete their own work.
We can read the rules all we want, but because they have that little "artistic merit" sentence, they can essentially delete ANYTHING they damn well please, and on top of that we will have no idea what we did wrong.
If your interested, my two pictures that were deleted were Tikal Reveals All (which tikal is over 200 years old) and two girls from Shining Tears, which to be honest they never gave their age, but it doesn't matter because I drew them to be older than they were in the game, intentionally.
And DA IS subject to the american law because they are based in California. That means they ARE in fact required to abide by all laws of their state and country, including freedom of speech.
And pornographic material, by the U.S. law, has been defined as being "any material with the intention of bringing about arousal".
We can read the rules all we want, but that doesn't mean we will understand why the rules apply to our individual images.
All I want is for DA to go "Hey, this image isn't kosher because I think these girls may be under 18" and then allow you to go "But here's my proof! This is a sonic character who was alive during the Incan civilization. That makes her hundreds of years old!" and then allow them to go "Well we want it gone anyway you have 24 hrs to remove it" or say "Oh, I get it now, ok then, sorry for the trouble!"
Understandably, if anyone gives DA any gruff after warning them, THEN hit the ban button.
To me it's like sending a kid to her room because they were being noisy without even trying to say "Hey, can you calm down?"
I mean can you imagin your kid jumping on the couch, you havn't said a word to them or even indicated your upset and going "GO TO YOUR ROOM, NOW! NO DINNER"
The kid will be like "Huh? What did I do? I don't get it..." all you had to do is go "Hey, the rule in this house is you don't jump on the couch, please get down now" and more than likely the kid will go "Oh yeah, I forgot! OK"
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First off - I said it's NOT their job to give second chances. That's why you didn't get one. And you know why you got banned? It's right here in the bloody community rules; Accusations of bannable offenses, questions or comments regarding specific administrative actions, and copyright violation reports are always to be addressed to the Policy Violation Administrators, and not directed at a particular deviant. Misplaced or false accusations may be considered violations of site policy. Reports regarding deviation miscategorization should be directed towards the appropriate Tier Administrator. And yes, that includes accusing people of being art thieves, even when they are. It's in the Etiquette Policy. You don't HAVE to be offensive or anything like that. And technically it falls under harassment.
You say they're doing it with poor judgement and too fast, and I disagree. I look and I see all of these rules have been laid down and yes, you did break them. I know S2X's work, too, and I wouldn't say all of them had artistic merit. I wouldn't say that all of the stuff I do has it too. You are familiar with the phrase gratuitious nudity, right? I will concede something here though - some of the mods seem more easily offended than others. But even when they remove a piece, if you think about it outside of this persecuted mindset that is in abundance here, it's generally understandable why they did it.
And the more you go on about Free Speech, the more I don't think you've actually read the amendment that guarantees it. Here;
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Congress shall make no law. The Government. NOT a private enterprise, and ESPECIALLY not a private enterprise where you signed an agreement stating you would follow their rules. In essence when you clicked "I Agree" you waved those rights as a term to use this service. Signing a waiver is hardly a new process, I'm sure you know it. But you're still too mixed up; DA is NOT a kid's parents, here. When a kid is born into a family, they don't apply for membership and sign a bunch of legal agreements etc etc etc. It is the base unit where they learn to follow the rules that are set out for them. It's more like the police punishing you than your parents, and guess what? They don't ask you to stop breaking a law before they arrest you for it. Your parents raise you to know and understand the law of the land, and the police are just the enforcers of that law. Here at DA, you have to be your own parent and pay attention to the rules. It's YOUR responsibility to know right from wrong, they've made these policies widely available, and since they have a legal document from you saying you'd follow, quite frankly they can enforce rule infringment however they like. It's not their fault you didn't familiarize yourself with these rules.
You're still upset that you and someone close to you were punished. I get that. But if you remove yourself from that emotion and look at it all with a cool, collected mindset, you will see that they were well within their rights and that they had just cause to do what they did. Now whether you LIKE those rules is another thing entirely (and it really doesn't go towards them being right or wrong - just because we like/dislike them doesn't change that they're there), and if you find that you can't live with them, well, at least it's a contract you can walk away from.
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I'm not TRYING to argue that I shouldn't have been banned at all.
I recognize there are rules and there are consequences, that is a given.
I am argueing that they should give their customers, because we are in fact paying customers, a chance to correct themselves. There is no need for them to just hit the ban button. They could just send a note saying "This is against policy, remove it"
Is that really so hard? When you get banned they send you notes ANYWAY...
And it would cut down on time for them in the end because when you get banned you have to send them notes and then they send you notes, and this goes back and forth till something gets done.
Next, though it is NOT DA's fault that people do not read EVER SINGLE detail, it should not be expected that every single person who signs on actually does read every rule. It should really be expected that if a rule is broken it is only because the person didn't take time out to read. like I said, it isn't DA's fault that people don't read, but at the same time lets be realistic, who actually takes the time? MAYBE a small majority.
I've read through rules, AND I read the section they told me to read when I was banned and I didn't even find your phrase. Not saying it's not there just saying it is not obvious. Though the policy is available, that doesn't make it obvious. On top of that, why would someone read the rules when they don't know they are breaking them? Or that there is even a rule in place TO break? I had no idea there was rules on journal entries. All they had to do is note me saying "This is against policy, please remove it" and I would have been "Oh I'm sorry! I had no idea. *delete!*"
I'm not upset because people are being banned and having images removed, I'm upset because they don't even give their customers a chance...
I'm sorry for misunderstanding you... but if it is in fact NOT their job to give second chances, then why did the art thief get a warning? Either way, someone was wronged in all this.
She knowingly and intentially broke the rules, and was asked to leave of her own free will.
I unknowingly broke a rule, and was banned.... something just doesn't make sense. You have to admitt that much =/
And even if you don't buy the parent analogy, you can at least admitt that we are all customers, or at least potential customers. We purchase accounts and sell prints on DA (some of us anyway) or at least DA is trying to get us to do that... but it isn't very good business to not communicate with your customers is it?
It is a law that any business operating within the U.S., including internet based sites, must abide by the law. Just because it doesn't say anything about free enterprise still does not give that enterprise the right to violate our rights. You have to remember, it also doesn't say it CAN violate our rights.
Actually I'm decently sure somewhere else there has been a law stateing it cannot violate against our freedom of speech. But it's not like I can find it
If it could, then business would theoretically be able to break just about any of the laws regarding our freedoms. But Ill admitt, I'm not too educated on specific laws regarding the rights of free enterprise
Please, just because we have a disagreement doesn't mean either of us should get hurt... I in no way mean for this to be personal, and I really am trying to look at this without my anger. I don't want to lose a DA friend over this, got it?
You make good points, I just don't agree with all of them.
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Truth be told I agree with you that it would be nice to have warnings, and more expression, and all of that. My main argument though is that when we sign up we essentially sign a waiver to those rights. That's why the free speech laws don't take effect, that's why we have to play by their rules. Before we can use the site, free or not, we sign away our rights in those regards (which is why it's so important they include the clauses that state that no matter what we still own our own work completely) - we give them up to use the site. That's all I'm saying. We legally agree that these laws no longer apply and that we will act according to the rules that we agree to (which is why when you click "I Agree" it usually states something like "I have read and agree to the terms and conditions listed above"), and that's why it's very important that we familiarize ourselves with these rules even if we don't plan on breaking them. It's not even a matter of free enterprise catching a break - it's a matter of us legally signing our rights away (you legally let them dictate what subject matter you can't use, what punishments they can put into effect, and what you can and cannot say through their property, and all of this at their discretion), and that's why you should always read what you sign, even online. That's all. I'll repeat myself - ignorance of the law is not a defense. It's perfectly fine for them to assume we've read the rules because we signed an agreement saying that we had.
Do you see what I mean? I'm not saying your ideas are bad - I'm saying that for all intents and purposes what DA is doing isn't wrong, and in fact it's unfair to characterize them badly just for upholding their policies simply because we disagree with or didn't bother to read them. We agreed to their terms to use the site and they really don't owe us anything. But yeah, there's nothing personal in this. I'm just saying it's not fair to come down on them for something that isn't their fault. Sometimes the blame falls on our own shoulders - I know it has for me more than once.
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Oh yeah, I agree that DA is doing their job, and yes it is our responsibility to read the rules. In fact I don't think it was WRONG of DA to have banned me (though I really don't think my images should have been deleted, but I wasn't really heart broken or surprised over that)
I suppose you did make me realize that, really, I wish for things to be different.
I wish DA would tell us when we've done wrong and give us the chance to correct our own mistakes.
I wish DA would be slightly more leniant on what art is allowed.
and I wish for a few other things, but your right that DA IS allowed to make their own rules and force people to abide by those rules after we agree to follow them
I never meant to argue against that (though knowing me I probably said something that sounded like that)
Anyway, thats why I'm going to post my more mature art up on fur affinity and put up links to them on my DA site.
Thanks for your input btw, it's good to have people who don't agree with you ^_^
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I agree with what you say honey
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I understand really I do.
I wish they would just warn us before removing it so we know what we are doing wrong and WE can be man enough to remove it ourselves...
What ever happened to warning? Insted of jumping in...
I dunno...
I really like this though, very creative work.
I hope you dont get killed, you are an amazing artist.
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I agree DA should warn us and tell us if the drawing is okay or not, so we can remove it.. not the otherwaya around
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