ihcstil In reply to ??? [2014-06-25 12:18:03 +0000 UTC]

I like how you put  in words how I was feeling about such compliments all the time - you're so talented!

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Pereyga In reply to ??? [2014-06-25 12:12:18 +0000 UTC]

<3
I have nothing to add here. I think I would take "you're so talented" as a compliment (I mean, that's probably how they mean it, so they're being nice or something). But that still sounds like a good artist is just born with great skills, but there's mostly a lot of experience and practice behind that, that should be recognized.

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earlynn In reply to ??? [2014-06-25 12:09:05 +0000 UTC]

I agree with the article.

And now i guess i should stop procratinating and get back to drawing.

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ThePeculiarMissE In reply to ??? [2014-06-25 12:03:48 +0000 UTC]

A person's supposedly innate ability to make good -- or, at least, what is considered to be good -- art isn't so much a matter of having a talent for creating artwork as it is a talent for learning.

We all have a talent for learning, since everybody is made with a mind that is meant to develop, grow, and accumulate knowledge. It's just that some people have more of a gift for learning certain things than others.
To quote Albert Einstein, “Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.” 
Different people are good at different things, but what we all share is a talent for learning.

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Havkatt In reply to ??? [2014-06-25 12:02:39 +0000 UTC]

Even though I do not believe anyone is born with talent I do believe some people learn how to learn faster than others.
Maybe they understood how they personally learn best, or they just understand things really quickly.
It's like with mathematics: Even though someone works really hard they may not understand it, while others catch it and understands it right away.
If we define talent as the skill of learning we could say that some are more talented than others.
However, usually the definition we think of when we hear the word talented is that someone is born with the skill, and therefore had to work less than those who aren't.

Maybe talent is when people learn quickly, and therefore improve faster than someone who isn't.

Still, personally I prefer when people compliment with the word skill instead of talent. It is 90% hard work anyway. (And then there is motivation, influences, and other factors)

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Autumn-12 In reply to ??? [2014-06-25 12:00:54 +0000 UTC]

This does make sense.
People have told me I'm talented while I'm drawing and I– of course– say thank you. But sometimes I look back down at my paper and think things like, I'm not talented.... I've worked so many years just to be able to draw this well. It's not like I've always been this good.  
It makes me feel a little sad that my hard work doesn't sound appreciated but I turn it around and think about it as the compliment they're trying to give. Because if they think I'm talented, they must think my art is amazing, right? ^^ 
Still, what about everyone who doesn't know how to think like that? o–o 
It can make people feel bad.

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MiusEmpire In reply to ??? [2014-06-25 11:59:00 +0000 UTC]

Well when a child draws something mind blowing its not always because they've trained it but simply because they got the best foundation i call talent, so in my world talent exists. The very foundation of skill cant be trained its simply there or not but yes to evolve this skill you have to practise. Those not talented will always have to struggle and nothing comes as easy to them. But just because you arent naturally talented doesnt mean you should quit drawing all together drawing is something you have to like to do.

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Basement-Aviator In reply to MiusEmpire [2014-06-25 12:44:05 +0000 UTC]

Exactly this.

I've been drawing a lot more, and longer, than a good friend of mine, but she's still much better than I am.

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MiusEmpire In reply to Basement-Aviator [2014-06-25 14:34:50 +0000 UTC]

no matter how hard we work i think there will always be someone we  consider better than ourselves

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Basement-Aviator In reply to MiusEmpire [2014-06-25 14:43:40 +0000 UTC]

Exactly.
I'm not complaining here, just giving an example.

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MiusEmpire In reply to Basement-Aviator [2014-06-25 14:47:23 +0000 UTC]

That's quite alright , i normally get jealous when peopel without effort can go get a grade of 12 (i live in DK) .. would be the same as an A+ i guess?
and then i go put tons of effort into my exam and still only gets 7 x'D (probably the same as a C ?)  i guess we all have different strengths and weaknesses

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Basement-Aviator In reply to MiusEmpire [2014-06-25 20:46:28 +0000 UTC]

Indeed we do, and people who say otherwise are rejecting reality.

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Lanfear96 In reply to ??? [2014-06-25 11:56:54 +0000 UTC]

so true! I don´t even think something like "talent" exists - it´s all about hard work

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FractiousLemon In reply to ??? [2014-06-25 11:37:22 +0000 UTC]

Am I the only person who takes "you're so talented" as a compliment instead of griping about it like a spoiled baby? I know we artists are known for being temperamental, but geeze.

Though I will admit it annoys me when people say "I wish I could do that." No, you don't. Nobody deeply desires an utterly useless and unmarketable skill. That's just dumb.

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KrisCynical In reply to FractiousLemon [2014-06-25 14:33:27 +0000 UTC]

While I agree that taking being told you're talented as an insult is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard, there are plenty of skills connected to "talent" that are useful and marketable. I make my living by drawing stuff.

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FractiousLemon In reply to KrisCynical [2014-06-25 16:11:47 +0000 UTC]

Maybe that's just my own bitterness towards failure speaking out then.

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KrisCynical In reply to FractiousLemon [2014-06-27 10:37:16 +0000 UTC]

Unfortunately so, apparently.

The notion that things like drawing are useless in life is one of the main things that makes it so hard for some kids to be allowed to go to art school. Parents say no, get a "REAL" job, thinking that being an artist means being a starving artist trying to sell paintings on street corners while living in a cardboard box.

I was very fortunate in that I had parents who were always really supportive of my art aspirations... so when I told them "I want to go to art school for college." they said "Okay. Which one?" instead of "Oh, God, WHERE DID WE GO WRONG?!"

In reality if the other type of parents would research it a little bit, specified art degrees (graphic design, illustration, photography, game design, etc.) lead to quite lucrative careers due to the rarely recognized fact that art and design affect literally every single thing we use/interact with every day, and somebody has to do that stuff.

Hell, the guy who illustrated the game boxes for all of Hasbro's anchor titles like Candyland and Chutes and Ladders, etc? The year Hasbro redesigned and updated those anchor titles, he made a six figure salary!

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FractiousLemon In reply to KrisCynical [2014-06-27 11:16:24 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, my parents were supportive until they actually had to do something. Especially if it cost them more then ten dollars.

"Whatever you need, name it. We'll help you out all the way."

I need a hundred dollars for--

"Good luck with that."

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KrisCynical In reply to FractiousLemon [2014-06-29 12:20:08 +0000 UTC]

Man, that's a shame. It always makes me sad and a little miffed to hear things like that coming from ANY source let alone from parents. :\

Just... don't believe drawing is useless. Even if it does nothing but bring you personal enjoyment while doing it, that's still something. It really is a neat ability/skill to have, and that's why those who don't have it wish they did. They don't think about practicality when they say it — they want it because of what it is in and of itself.

And sorry for being sappy about this... It's kind of my passion and lifeblood, so that tends to happen.

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FractiousLemon In reply to KrisCynical [2014-06-29 12:36:03 +0000 UTC]

Understandable. And I don't find it sappy. It makes me happy to find people who've actually found contentment with their art.

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Qnjo In reply to ??? [2014-06-25 11:20:33 +0000 UTC]

Belittling talent is what medicore artists do to make themselves feel better, thinking that they will become GREAT from training hard. They won't.

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KrisCynical In reply to Qnjo [2014-06-25 14:36:47 +0000 UTC]

You hit the nail on the head there. Saying talent is a myth is utterly ridiculous to the umpteenth degree. For some things, ESPECIALLY art, you have to have some level of talent for it to begin with. The talent is what you hone into skill.

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kuschelirmel-stock In reply to Qnjo [2014-06-25 12:40:00 +0000 UTC]

indeed. not everyone can be the next HR Giger. And giving people the feeling they could be if they just worked hard enough makes them concentrate on achieving a goal they can't achieve instead of being a little more realistic and finding something else they like doing and exceed at. They will get stuck in this "I have to work on myself" circle instead of giving themselves a chance at being happy with some other life choices. (Of course, this comment is mostly about people who want to make money from whatever they do. But then, realizing that this can be a great hobby and as a hobby, it doesn't have to be Giger-level would be nice as well)

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TD-Vice In reply to Qnjo [2014-06-25 11:32:57 +0000 UTC]

fucking spot on.

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petrexkgb In reply to Qnjo [2014-06-25 11:25:41 +0000 UTC]

That's totally wrong. They will. I draw almost everyday and the difference from my drawings from a year ago are palpable.

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KrisCynical In reply to petrexkgb [2014-06-29 12:13:04 +0000 UTC]

...do you not think you have any talent or innate inclination for drawing? None at all?

I don't think Qnjo was saying those without an innate talent for drawing won't improve at all, it's just kind of hard to put into words.

A basic foundation of natural ability is needed to reach a certain "level," like how (most likely) NO professional artist DIDN'T have an initial talent for art/drawing to begin with. It's the initial talent/inclination/ability that makes most artists pursue art in the first place.

I've always thought the art school I attended put it pretty nicely during freshman orientation: "All of you are talented; there's no question about that. What we're here to do is help you hone that talent into a marketable skill." That's basically what all artists who strive to improve are doing: honing their talent into a skill, marketable OR personal.

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petrexkgb In reply to KrisCynical [2014-06-29 13:35:43 +0000 UTC]

Even though I somewhat agree with what you say, I still believe that EVERYONE, with a lot of training and perseverance can achieve what they want. The only reason for me to practice everyday is that I want to make a living out of it in the future, and anyone who is willing to put in hundreds, even thousands of hours to drawing will be great at it. Just keep at it and never give up.

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Nightshade03 In reply to ??? [2014-06-25 11:10:26 +0000 UTC]

I was just saying this the other day! I'm glad the conclusion I drew on the matter has been backed up!
People will tell me I am "talented" with some musical instruments. Well, I say to them, I'm about as good as anyone else would be if they'd been playing that long with as much drive.
Sure, there are some people I might call talented because they have a knack for something and get really good way faster than one aught. But that talent does nothing if they don't apply motive and practice! And even that "knack" for things I question. It could just be a strong interest in something that makes for more motive, and therefore more practice.
It would be like saying that all A-Students are geniuses, or that all geniuses are A-Students. We know that's not the case. Some really average or below-average intelligent people can be A-Students if they do the work and study... they just have to do more than a smarter person would to get there. My little brother probably has an IQ of 140 or 150 (just a guess, but it's for sure higher than mine. You can just tell sometimes!) and he does nothing with that inborn "talent". He dropped out of high school in sophomore year and is still "thinking" about a GED. He's "talented" but not "skilled". Oh, but he's an awesome drummer! lol. That's where all the motivation and drive went! But let me tell you, he was AWFUL when he started. Just like me with the bagpipes and the guitar. You would not call us "talented" in those first few months! lol. But years make for "skill" and the illusion of talent!
Great post! I'm glad it's not just me!

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parkourgirl In reply to ??? [2014-06-25 11:04:06 +0000 UTC]

Well until someone comes up with a better word for the word talent(ed) guesswork stuck with the saying "your so talented" :/

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Truerhythmstar1 In reply to ??? [2014-06-25 10:22:17 +0000 UTC]

Talented!

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Rhyn-Art In reply to ??? [2014-06-25 10:20:38 +0000 UTC]

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Yobi-chan In reply to ??? [2014-06-25 10:18:26 +0000 UTC]

Well.. It actually IS a talent. Some people were way over the "normal" when drawing when they were kids, but then comes skill. They have to nurture the "talent" to become much better. The talent is born at the start of one's art journey and slowly turns into skill as one learns and grows artistically. Else the "talent" turns into "I'm not good at all anymore", as explained in the journal.

Beyond that I completely agree. It is more about skill when you've worked your way up to the level you are at, however big or small that is. If there was no such thing as skill, but only talent, there was no such thing as "Practice makes perfect", and all of us has heard that at some point in our lives.

Personally I find it easier and better to tell people what their "talent" is. I comment on their beautiful choice of wording on their poems or prose, I point out their awesome way to draw eyes or hair or the epic poses and epic dynamic in their art. It's easier and leaves out the word "talent". It's also more useful to point things out they are especially good at. It boosts self esteem and makes the artist feel that they're actually good at something other than they thought. And that people actually like what they do.
That's my own personal experience anyway.

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Monecranestpourri In reply to Yobi-chan [2014-06-25 12:56:01 +0000 UTC]

It's a very good idea.

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Yobi-chan In reply to Monecranestpourri [2014-06-26 10:23:23 +0000 UTC]

Yup. Thank you.

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KanaraR In reply to ??? [2014-06-25 10:06:06 +0000 UTC]

I used to be a cheerleader and I worked twice as hard as the other girls, practicing every day and night, and I was just never as good. It made me feel terrible about myself. It felt worse when people said I "just wasn't working hard enough" when how could I possibly work harder?

After a while I went to a doctor about my chronic fatigue and feinting issues and the doctor told me I was "just lazy".

About a year later I went to my country's primary medical research facility (which also happens to be in the top 10 in the world) and was diagnosed with a disease that (among other things) gives me chronically low blood pressure. This is a lifelong and incurable disease which, if untreated, leaves me "exercise intolerant" because my heart cannot sustain blood flow to my brain or extremities. This disease is diagnosed with a blood test, also, so there is no denying it exists (as some people may try to deny symptom-based diagnoses).

Maybe this doesn't make the other cheerleaders "talented" but it sure as hell sets me behind, so if I'm "disabled" at athletics, isn't everyone else automatically "enabled" just in comparison to me? It's really hurtful to be told you "just aren't working hard enough" when you are literally risking cardiac arrest to be better at something. 

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CrystalEnceladus In reply to KanaraR [2014-06-26 06:27:42 +0000 UTC]

Wow, that's heartbreaking. At least now you know why.

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KanaraR In reply to CrystalEnceladus [2014-06-26 10:57:07 +0000 UTC]

 Yes I am much better now! It tends to hit me the wrong way when natural ability/disability is discounted due to my experience. 

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CrystalEnceladus In reply to KanaraR [2014-06-27 07:09:41 +0000 UTC]

Same here. When you have a disadvantage, you're way behind the race track to begin with, and the effect is cumulative to the negative effect. 

I remember reading somewhere about some kid who had asthma who was bullied by his sports coach  to run. It almost killed him, but the coach didn't care. Nobody did, since he was bullied by everyone.

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KanaraR In reply to CrystalEnceladus [2014-06-27 08:38:33 +0000 UTC]

I totally agree. Not everybody starts at the same starting line. There's this one quote by Albert Einstein that I think explains the whole talent/skill thing perfectly, and it is: "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”. It's like that with talent/natural ability. Everybody has a talent for something, but you can't just expect a fish to climb, or an asthmatic to run a marathon! I hope that coach got child abuse charges filed against him and lost his job. 

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CrystalEnceladus In reply to KanaraR [2014-06-29 08:22:32 +0000 UTC]

I doubt it. The boy couldn't fit in, so apparently it was his fault. I think it was back in the day, too.

I like that Einstein quote. As for me, I dunno if I have any talents. I just know I'm not stupid.

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KanaraR In reply to CrystalEnceladus [2014-06-29 09:36:00 +0000 UTC]

I think talents come in all sorts of varieties, not necessarily ones where you're actively creating something like if you're an artist or a musician or something. People can be talented communicators, talented organizers, talented at making people laugh. Just being kind to other people is sort of a talent, I mean, people who don't possess kindness seem to have an awfully hard time learning it!

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FeverDreamRomance In reply to ??? [2014-06-25 10:02:21 +0000 UTC]

It doesn't matter if talent exists, if you like doing any kind of art, do it. if someone says you shouldn't do it because 'your not good at it' tell them to *censored* themselves with a *censored* while *censored* in a bucket of *censored*.

BTW in some of those draw again memes I think the earlier one is better.

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Monecranestpourri In reply to ??? [2014-06-25 10:01:52 +0000 UTC]

Except art is defined by talent. It's not about following a method, it's about creating one. If art could be defined by just the reproduction of a pre-defined method then it wouldn't be art anymore. Art is the expression of subjectivity.

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Skull-san In reply to Monecranestpourri [2014-06-25 10:44:05 +0000 UTC]

 Great point,very well said! 

I think that that might be a contributing factor to why people might be less likely to say there is talent in art. I mean you can't measure it like you can in other things.

Such as,things that have a set requirement. Like,"You have to get at lest 20,000 points to beat the final level of the game!"  

There's no question as to if you did well or not.

In art on the other hand,one mans "SUPERCOOLPIECEOFARTYES!!1!1" is another mans "Crappy,poop fest".

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Maxa-art In reply to ??? [2014-06-25 09:49:52 +0000 UTC]

Yes "talent" can be a bothersome word, and surely one of the most hated compliments for an artist, and it's even annoying when accompanied with words like "it's a thing you are born with or not". I understand and perfectly feel how "talent" tend to negate (maybe only in the mind of the artist hearing that XD) the enormous quantity of work and effort put into art.

However, we must not forget that 99% of the time, it comes from people who genuinely want to be nice so of course being offuscated by that is not fair. Kindness must be answered with kindness, and when it's coming for people who say that because they lack of confidence, we can tell them is absolutely 90% of work without getting on our high horses.

I will put aside the question of "is there talent". I think that they are some innate qualities or predispositions to learn some things so, to a certain degree I believe in talent. I just don't beleive that it's an absolute determining factor.

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MissPaperJoker In reply to ??? [2014-06-25 09:44:20 +0000 UTC]

This is so important. Not that I´m not grateful when someone calls me talented or gifted, they mean well, but I bristle everytime on the inside. I´ve been preaching this so.long. now...  Wonderful of you to put it into such eloquent words and arguments!

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VioletKy In reply to ??? [2014-06-25 09:34:02 +0000 UTC]

I sometimes used the comment "you are so talented" but with the meaning of skilled.
I never think that someone is blessed from the birth for a special talent: if you wan to do something really well you have to study a lot, that works in every activity from studing to drawing. I'm not an artist but I like drawing since I was a child and in those last few years I could see a lots of progress in my way of drawing. I make progress but I will never be able to reach other people skills in the same times.
Even if you I knows all the bases of drawing and coloring process I'm not good enough to make them work well on my drawings. I will need all my entire life to reach the goal, while other people just need less time and practice. They can apply skills better than others.
I saw that in the last two years that I spent on an illustration school: some people learn more quikly than others how to employ their skills.
That's why I think there is no such difference between talented and skilled: make work all you have learned through the years (so all your skills) in the best way, this is the real talent.

On the other side I'm on the bounch of children that have always been described as talented for drawing and then after high school give up the idea to become a serious artist couse I belive that I'm not talented enough... so I understand what that means... and if people hate to be called talented I don't see any reason to not use skilled instead.

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SarienSpiderDroid In reply to ??? [2014-06-25 09:26:59 +0000 UTC]

There are worse things than called "talented". I once showed pictures to some people. The pictures were good, I was proud. The response I received: "You must have a good camera." Would've preferred "talent" instead. But I see your point.

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BananaSnail In reply to ??? [2014-06-25 09:26:31 +0000 UTC]

I sort of agree with this journal and sort of don't.
On one hand, its true, hard work builds skill and experience and that's how we grow.

On the other hand!
Art is not just a physical demonstration of skill.
It is also emotional and connecting and a medium that speaks to us and to others.

You can draw for years and go to all the art schools and practice day and night BUT
it's not the same as the emotional and maybe even spiritual connection that some people have when they make their work. 

I'm not saying it won't be good. Because "good art" is an opinion. 
But to have a mindset where what you make actually makes YOU FEEL, 
That is something practice and skill can never bring you.

And it can be the most anatomically incorrect and messy and half-assed piece of work ever,
The point is not the production,
it's the journey and how you made it and how it affected you. 

Just my opinions, 

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dragon-in-night In reply to BananaSnail [2014-06-25 10:03:42 +0000 UTC]

Agree, with me art talent is not about skill (modern art says hi ), but the ability to express emotions via artwork.

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