HOME | DD

blackrose414 In reply to blackrose414 [2013-09-05 04:02:05 +0000 UTC]

btw nice work i lovei t xD

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Capu-Llama-Spark In reply to KrisCynical [2012-07-12 02:38:17 +0000 UTC]

I'll have to do that sometime! Thanks.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

KrisCynical In reply to Krofter [2012-07-11 11:01:58 +0000 UTC]

I'm going to go out on a limb here: you either watch the dubbed anime, haven't watched The Final Act yet, haven't read and/or finished the manga, or any combination of the three. In my experience at cons 99% of the people who think she's annoying, stupid, or useless fit into those three options because the English dub makes her annoying as hell and sound like a valley girl ditz. She's not like that AT ALL in Japanese, and her character has a lot more depth in the manga (most of the characters are deeper in the manga, actually). It makes me sad that so many people think so little of her as a character because of that damn dub and Monica Stori.

All I can say is please give the source material a chance when it comes to the portrayal of the characters because the dub mutilated a lot of them, and the anime in general changed the story quite a bit in more than a few places, some of which involved major character development for both Inuyasha and Kagome. So really, if you love this series, pleeeeease read the manga if you haven't yet. It's a better story than the anime (and I adore the anime subtitled, too, so I'm not trashing it as a whole... just in English : P ). There are several manga sites out there that have it available to read for free.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Krofter In reply to KrisCynical [2012-07-12 03:40:46 +0000 UTC]

yes english does make her preety stupid but its the things she does too that is just sooooooo annoying. one time inuyasha pushed a boulder down a path and she said 'here it comes' while standing in front of it and not moving until someone had to come and save her AGAIN
ive read some of the mangas but shes basically the same that she is in the anime

👍: 0 ⏩: 2

KrisCynical In reply to Krofter [2012-07-12 10:52:28 +0000 UTC]

I take it you were talking about the Peach Man arc when she, Shippou, and Miroku were trapped in the garden box and Shippou made some cans of hair spray explode with his fox fire in order to start the boulder running down the hill to break through the outer wall of the garden box. Inuyasha was tied up in all the thorny vines in another part of the castle at that point.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Krofter In reply to KrisCynical [2012-07-13 08:49:03 +0000 UTC]

yes i was talking about that. i must have forgotten inuyasha was tied up but he got there at just the right time to save her as usual

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

KrisCynical In reply to Krofter [2012-07-13 11:41:56 +0000 UTC]

He found her in the sake bath, yes. In Peach Man they more worked together to protect each other, though. After all, she's the one who shot Peach Man and knocked the shards out of his belly while he was attacking Inuyasha.

Let's see, what else did she do... *thinking*

She pulled him out of his youkai blood rage the first time it happened by subjugating him. She pulled him out of Kikyou's trance before she was able to take him to Hell with her. She helped to protect him and freed him from the web after being poisoned in the Spider Head arc. She also saved him from Ryoukutsei by calling his name which gave him the strength to fight his youkai blood long enough to get to Tetsusaiga. Then in the ogre's belly she held on to him to keep his youkai blood at bay and keep the jewel shard in Tetsusaiga pure so he could get them all out of there. She defeadted Yura of the Hair when she was about to mince Inuyasha to bits. She defeated Tsubaki by deflecting the curse back into her eye (the stuff after that was filler). She purified the miasma inside of Kikyou at the waterfall and saved her life. She helped Inuyasha during the final battle by throwing Tetsusaiga to him (that was some really cool animation when it was covered in The Final Act btw). She's the one who dealt the final blow that killed Naraku, and then she was the one who destroyed the jewel. There are several other things but those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

She's not really the damsel in distress the further into the series you get because she gets stronger not only in shooting accuracy but her spiritual power and confidence as well. She eventually gets so strong that Naraku is scared enough of her to get someone to seal her powers.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

KrisCynical In reply to Krofter [2012-07-12 10:41:14 +0000 UTC]

That was filler. That arc wasn't even in the right place in the series compared to the manga. It should have happened in the first season but Sunrise pushed it back to the third season because they wanted the InuKag development to go slower. In the manga it originally happened before Sango was even introduced in the manga, thus the filler in the episode before about that dog youkai damaging Hiraikotsu enough to cause Sango to leave the group for a little while to return home and repair it.

Sunrise added lots of little things into otherwise canon arcs that screwed with character development and portrayal for the sake of entertainment and/or drama. The Tsubaki arc was MUCH shorter in the manga, for example. Sunrise added three more episodes to it if I remember correctly, including the episode with the two training Mikos and the huge chibi Inuyasha and Kagome they had to fight. That's another filler that makes Kagome shallow and silly.

That's also the reason why the anime plays up the Kagome/Inuyasha/Kikyou triangle: drama. It's not NEARLY so present in the manga, not by a long shot. It's actually irritating how much Sunrise added to the anime about that, particularly the fact that 90% of the "past" material they show of Inuyasha and Kikyou's relationship is filler and nowhere to be found in the canon source material.

Another Sunrise addition that bugs the hell out of a lot of manga purists: the abuse of the subjugation spell. She only uses it a hand full of times through the last 300 or so chapters of the manga, and in those times it's only in order to save him/get him out of the way of danger rather than for stupid petty reasons. Sunrise added SO many subjugations that NEVER happened in the manga just because they thought it was funny and good for TV, particularly since it has a younger audience included in Japan. More than a few of those subjugations were added in to REPLACE InuKag relationship development that happened at that moment in the manga.

There are 56 books in the manga for a total of 558 chapters that cover a lot of character development for the whole Inu-tachi, Inuyasha and Kagome in particular. Of course she's going to seem silly and a little stupid at the start of the manga: she's just turned 15 and is very young, immature (combined with inexperience with boys that causes some of the jealousy over Kikyou), and in way over her head. She's completely different by the end of the manga (as is he) because roughly a year has passed and she has been forced to grow up REALLY fast due to all the things that happened during the series.

It's the reason why she was no longer happy in the future once the well closed... she had grown and changed so much that she didn't belong in the future anymore, she belonged in the Sengoku Jidai. As a result, as soon as the well opened again she gave up absolutely everything she had -- including her family -- in order to permanently go back to the Sengoku Jidai and marry Inuyasha.

I don't mean this as an insult, but I'm thinking you haven't read all that much of the manga if you think she's basically the same as in the anime. Once you're past the first quarter of the story it's not even remotely true.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Krofter In reply to KrisCynical [2012-07-13 04:58:39 +0000 UTC]

yes i remember the chibi inuyasha and kagome that was silly T_T and no i haven't read that much manga i ususally watch the anime on youtube. and i agree with the subjugation spell (thats 'sit boy!' isnt it?) but the times she does use it are oreety funny even if its meant to be totally serious but it sucks it was to be put in to replace some of the crutial plotline

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

KrisCynical In reply to Krofter [2012-07-13 09:48:21 +0000 UTC]

Whenever you get the chance you really should read more of the manga because the story is so much better! I love the anime (in Japanese) as its own thing, of course, but the manga is nothing but Takahashi's story. There are a few sites that have the manga up so you can read it for free... I understand a lot of people don't have the time to read the ENTIRE manga since it's so long (it ran from 1996 to 2008 in Japan!), but at least read the last 30 or so chapters since that covers the final battle and all that. That would be about chapter 520 onward.

Oh, and chapter 494 by itself is a WONDERFUL InuKag development moment so you'd probably enjoy that. It's the first time that Kagome thinks to herself that "I never thought the day would come that I would have to choose between the two worlds".

The subjugation was translated into English as "sit boy" because it needed to be at least two syllables to match the mouth animation. The Japanese word is "osawuri" (pronounced "ohswaree"), which is actually the command that you would give an animal to sit. So even though some fanfics make her saying "sit" in a sentence while talking to someone else activate the spell, it shouldn't since that command is never said to humans.

There are quite a few things in the Japanese language AND cultural things that don't really translate well to English so it comes across kind of weird. Inuyasha's swearing is an example of that. He doesn't really swear that much in Japanese, he just uses the rude form of words to speak (like addressing someone with "teme" which is the VERY rude form of "you" that is the equivalent of "bitch" or "bastard" in English). Sesshoumaru talks VERY highbrow that actually translates as him referring to himself as "this Sesshoumaru". Shippou talks like a country bumpkin, etc.

Japanese also uses honorifics when addressing others, and that by itself adds more to the story as far as character relationships. "-chan" and "-kun" are familiar terms for friends and those you are close to, "-chan" is for girls and small children and "-kun" is for boys (Kagome addresses Sango as "Sango-chan" and Kouga as "Kouga-kun", for example). "-san" and "-sama" are respectful (Kagome addresses Miroku as "Miroku-sama" and Myouga addresses Inuyasha as "Inuyasha-sama" which basically translates as "lord").

For elders you add "-ba" for women and "-ji" for men to the beginning of the honorific (Kagome addresses Kaede as "Kaede-bachan" and Myouga as "Myouga-jiisan", but Inuyasha uses the rude form of that honorific which is "Kaede-baba" and "Myouga-jiji"). Inuyasha also refers to his mom as "hahaue" (ha-ha-weh) which is the respectful form of "mother" instead of "mom" or "mama", but refers to his dad as "oyajii" (oi-ya-jee) which is rude like "the old man" rather than the respectful "chichiue" (chee-chee-weh) for "father", which is what Sesshoumaru uses.

If you don't use an honorific at all it can either be seen as rude or very intimate like family members or a husband/wife. Inuyasha and Kagome NEVER use honorifics with each other which was them being rude to each other at first, but by the end of the story it is out of intimacy. Sango addresses Miroku as "houshi-sama" which translates as "lord monk", but once they're married at the end of the story she would address him as "Miroku". THAT is a huge facet of MirSan's relationship that is completely lost in English.

"Baka" is also a complex term depending on the level of familiarity you have with the person and the vocal tone you use. After Sesshoumaru knocks out youkai (demon) Inuyasha after the moth man caccoon arc, Kagome yells at him "Stay away, baka!" which is basically her calling him a stupid idiot. If she says "Inuyasha baka ni" in a soft tone of voice, that is her saying "You are silly, Inuyasha". When she first returns to him at the end he asks her "baka, what have you been up to?" which VIZ translated as "idiot" but in actuality he was saying "what have you been up to, silly?" It makes a big difference.

Japanese has a LOT more layers to it than English does so that makes all of that VERY difficult to translate.

As for cultural things, Takahashi writes her stories for a Japanese audience without any thought about it being translated and exported to other languages and cultures. The Japanese don't address people by name very often because of having to decide which honorific to use, so the way that Inuyasha and Kagome repeatedly yell each other's names during battles has meaning. The amount that they touch each other is VERY significant as well because the Japanese are really "no touchy". So for him to carry her on his back? WAY intimate. It's also why he blushes furiously when she grabs his hands sometimes. After chapter 494 they touch CONSTANTLY because their relationship moved forward in that chapter.

Love confessions are different in Japan, too, which is why Kagome had such a reaction to the first time Inuyasha told her to let him protect her. Saying you will protect someone is romantically significant, so when he tells her "I will protect you with my life" in 494 that is basically him telling her "I love you" (so in Japanese culture they were already a dedicated couple before the final battle happened). "I will never forget you" is also significant. Another romantic concept in Japan is two lovers knowing what each other is thinking or feeling without needing to be told, as well as being separated. Inuyasha and Kagome are separated for three years after the well closes until it opens again to let her return to him, so that was also considered very romantic.

When Sesshoumaru leaves Rin in the village to live with humans until she is old enough to choose where she wants to go (and who she wants to go with), him bringing her kimonos as gifts is considered a courting jesture in Japan rather than a paternal gesture, which shows he's aware of the connection he has with her and is thus waiting until she is old enough to choose whether or not she wants to stay with him.

Another thing that's more humerous is when the characters sneeze and say "someone must be talking badly/gossiping about me". That's the Japanese equivalent of us saying someone's ears must be burning when they're being talked about. You see this used with both Shippou and Kagome in the anime.

I didn't know most of this stuff I'm telling you but I have a friend, =knittingknots , who is VERY well-versed in Japanese culture because she's a history and general research nut (and a retired English professor), and she's passed some of the things she knows along to me. If you look her up in fanfiction.net, read "A Tale of Ever After". It's her chapter fic that takes place after the end of the series and it is an INCREDIBLY accurate depiction of what day-to-day life was like in Feudal Japan (and she's really great at writing InuKag as a married couple). It's one of the best fanfics out there so definitely check it out!

I know this was an obscenely long comment so I hope it wasn't boring for you... I find that stuff really interesting, so I hope you did, too. It really changes things as far as how you interpret the story!

👍: 0 ⏩: 3

DLatrice In reply to KrisCynical [2015-03-11 19:59:46 +0000 UTC]

  this!!

im most shocked about the final episode with sess and rin, i just thought the gifts were from a fatherly place but he was COURTING HER!? OMG   

And the translation with inu and kag in the same episode with idiot instead of silly, i felt that fit his character more though. Maybe because I didnt get the huge significance of all their touching and the protecting statements.

I learned a lot from your comment madam and am going to save it on my computer for future reference for when I finish my manga collection
     

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Kagomesweetheart101 In reply to KrisCynical [2012-08-02 18:03:22 +0000 UTC]

I just sat here and read all this. And wow. Thank you for this, really.
My friend ( ) and I want you to know that we love you for this.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

KrisCynical In reply to Kagomesweetheart101 [2012-08-02 22:17:12 +0000 UTC]

Thank you very much! I find all of that stuff really fascinating because it adds so many layers to the source material, but I must admit that I got almost all of my information save for honorific use from =knittingknots . She's the feudal Japanese history and culture master.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Krofter In reply to KrisCynical [2012-07-14 07:48:02 +0000 UTC]

thanks for that! yeah all that kun and chan stuff i was aware of before and how not saying someones name can be very rude but i didnt know anything about the amount of contact that kagome and inuyasha have that could signify how close they are! :0 i havent got up to the final act yet but i cant wait to see tat scene you were talking about. thanks for all that

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

KrisCynical In reply to LadyLifdis [2012-07-11 11:10:45 +0000 UTC]

The last episode of The Final Act has a kiss in it, and the first ending theme of The Final Act shows them connected to each other with the red thread of destiny tied to their pinky fingers. In Asian folklore, if two people are connected by a red thread (either through the fingers or ankles), they are fated to be lovers/soulmates/married regardless of circumstance, distance, or time. I don't know if you've watched it yet (or even know it exists since it hasn't been released in the US yet) or if you've read the end of the manga so I won't say anything else... the end of the story is just really great if you're a fan of InuKag.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Capu-Llama-Spark In reply to LadyLifdis [2012-07-08 01:56:26 +0000 UTC]

i know, all we got was this pathetic little PG peck.

👍: 0 ⏩: 2

KrisCynical In reply to Capu-Llama-Spark [2012-07-11 11:11:57 +0000 UTC]

I already replied to the person you were talking to about this, so [link]

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

LadyLifdis In reply to Capu-Llama-Spark [2012-07-08 02:33:47 +0000 UTC]

x'D

👍: 0 ⏩: 0