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CloudNumber8 β Muhammad Ali
Published: 2016-06-05 21:35:07 +0000 UTC; Views: 5011; Favourites: 67; Downloads: 17
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Not jumping on the bandwagon. Just a fan of the man and genuinely sad to see him go.Related content
Comments: 79
very true 
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You're welcome.
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At least he will no longer suffer from the debilitating effects of Parkinsons'
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very true
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My father suffers from Parkinsons', so I some idea what it was like for Ali
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I am sorry to hear that. I really hope there is some progress with treatments for it
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This is an excellent tribute to one of the greatest of all time and it shows great inspiration. Β Β R.I.P. Muhammad Ali.
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thats such a nice comment. Thank you
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Rest in peace, Muhammed Ali 
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You're very very very very welcome, my friend.
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Thank you and thanks for the fave
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and thank you for commenting
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Great tribute... Despite the controversy that surrounded him early in his career, I personally believe he changed society for the better.
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I agree completely. In his early life and career he went a little astray and said some things I definitely take issue with. But once he found the straight path he was full of love and inspiration for all.
thanks for commenting
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I have a low opinion of Cassius Clay. Changing your name is disowning your family. islam is a worse plague on Humanity than Nazism. And fighting for money but refusing to wear your country's uniform is cowardice.
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I disagree completely but thank you for taking time to read the poem and comment
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You are so wrong it's hard to know where to start.Β
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Well? Start? Anything that I said untrue?
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Look up the Gulf of Tonkin. The war you are calling him a coward for not going to? It started because of a false flag. If the war was so just, why did they have to do that? Β
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The Vietnam War was to help an ally being invaded by its northern enemy supported by the USSR. US never invaded NV.
And I would ask the 58,000 killed what they think of Clay.
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They'd probably say they died for nothing. How can you defend a war the government had to lie for us to get in? If it was so just, they would not have had to create a false flag.Β
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I'd bet they'd call Clay a coward and traitor for not serving as did MOST who were called up.
Meanwhile, how about SV being an ally US was obligated by treaty to support it when it was attacked by NV & USSR?
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You mean the unconstitutional treaty? The treaty that oversteps congressional authority? You do know the Constitution clearly states that ONLY Congress can declare war, right? Your lack of an argument is showing.Β
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Presidents and Congresses from 1954-1975 supported SV. That's a whole lot of illegality. But then there's been a lot of that by your lights. Reagan's bombing of Libya; Clinton's attacking the Serbs; the Marine peacekeepers in Lebanon in the 1950s; Bush striking back in the wake of 9/11; Obama killing Bin Laden; bombing Syria, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan. In fact , the last DECLARED war was WW2. And there is no such thing as an 'unconstitutional treaty' once approved by the Senate.
None of this has anything to do with Clay being a coward and traitor who declared his 'peacefulness' by joining the most violent cult in Human History.
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Just because other presidents broke the law doesn't mean it's okay. These arguments are falling faster them the original reason to go into Vietnam.
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You brought up Vietnam. Get back to Cassius Clay's cowardice and draft dodging.
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Ughhh, of course I brought up Vietnam...that's the war he didn't want to go to! That's extremely relevant, what the hell are you talking about?Β
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Can't have a conversation without a foul mouth?
No, the name of theΒ warΒ is irrelevant. He likely would've got the same celeb deal Elvis did for WW2. HisΒ Β country needed him, he wasn't there while tens of thousands of men went and died. *Cowardice and draft dodging*
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I didn't know we had to ensure a PG conversation. I'll make sure to dance around any words that might offend you. Or maybe since you're okay with force I should keep cursing instead?
It's funny how easily offended you are by a word but have no problem taking such a firm stance on forcing people to kill others. The war was so wrong, that the SAME government that is in place there we actually trust enough to sell weapons to. The war was a lie, there was no reason to get in, and Muhammad Ali had every right to be a conscientious objector.
Let me tell you this, if there's a war in the future that has a draft then put me in jail. I'd rather be in a cell then end another person's life.
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Cursing doesn't offend me. I was watching The Shootist and John Wayne apologized for saying 'damn' And if you curse, it seems you're suddenly defensive. Trump, Clinton & Sanders manage to debate without it.
Court determined his conscientious objector request to be invalid. He said "We don't take part in Christian wars or wars of any unbelievers." and gave his "Black Is Best" ---Racist.
You'd "rather be in a cell then end another person's life." Just wondering if that includes someone coming into your neighborhood or bombing your city?
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Self-defense is different than a foreign war. At no point was Vietnam a threat to us and they never were. The Soviet Union was the biggest threat we've ever had and we never faced them directly. There's better ways to handle conflict.Β
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And NV was USSR's puppet invading a US ally. Why didn't NV find a better way to handle the conflict than launching a war of aggression?
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And how did communism work out for the USSR? Any communist state that didn't implement some form of capitalism in their economic system did not survive. The Soviet Union collapsed because of their over spending, their lack of actual production, their aggressive wars and corruption.Β
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It did. But you've criticized US involvement in Vietnam [which was to defend SV] Where is the criticism for NV for invading SV and the USSR for supporting the war of conquest?
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I can be morally against something without thinking there should be intervention. I'm against Saudia Arabia chopping off the heads of gays but I don't think we should invade them.Β
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So you're saying you're against US helping an ally that got invaded by an aggressor nation?
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Yes, BUT if the American people truly wanted it then it MUST be brought to Congress for them to officially declare war.Β
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Well our elected representatives signed an agreement to assist SV in the event it came under attack.
Nor does it have anything to do with Clay's cowardly draft dodging.
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Our elected officials also took and oath to defend the Constitution. Instead, you think it's okay for them to break it and for them to force pacifists to go to a war that was such BS to begin with that the government faked an attack to get us in there. The idea that you are defending this is extremely sad and reflects on your character.Β
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I think it reflects well on my character. I don't think it's BS for America to go to the aid of Her allies. And the Constitution is a two way street. If you want the protections it affords, you have to "...defend it against all enemies..." Clay's trial found his conscientious objector application invalid. Probably because your pacifist got paid to beat up other guys.
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Again, if the war was so just, then why did America have to LIE to the American people (which is illegal BTW) to drag us into the war? And if the government was so bad, then why do we trust them with weapons today? The war amounted to nothing, Muhammad Ali was correct when he said "NO!"
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So, you're going to tell over a million Americans they served for nothing? 58,000 men and women died for...?
And that Clay was right to abandon them? Even though the so called pacifist got paid millions for beating up people. That's the real reason he didn't want to serve, you know. He wanted to keep punching people on tv instead of maybe in Vietnam.
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Yes, sadly they died for nothing. Name one good thing that came out of the war. It's not a bad thing to object to potentially dying for nothing, ESPECIALLY in a war you don't believe in. Many of us believe we shouldn't entangle ourselves in these ILLEGAL wars to begin with.
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And your pacifist wanted to get paid millions more participating in a violent sport?
And nothing was illegal about defending and ally. It was supported by Presidents and Congresses of both parties throughout.
What positives came out of it?
Well, we killed 40 NV for each American. If nothing else a good kill ratio.
2nd it was a contributing factor in the eventual collapse of USSR. And I'd rather have a few million dead Vietnamese than Soviets marching into American cities.
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