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daarken In reply to Augra [2011-09-12 05:57:47 +0000 UTC]

I agree, but you have to realize I am creating concept art for the Warhammer IP. Daemonettes in Warhammer have very little armor. In fact, they are actually bare-breasted, but I had to cover them up because our game was a teen rating, hence the nipple armor. When you are creating art for a client or an IP, you have to defer to your art director. If your art director tells you to put them in less armor, you have to. If he says "put them in a chain mail bikini," you have to. Not only do you have to get approval from your art director, but you also have to get approval from the owners of the IP. If my art director approved a fully armored Daemonette, Games Workshop would probably not approve it because that is not what Daemonettes look like. You have to stick to the lore.

The other point of less armor on a female warrior is as a distraction and to show how fierce they are and that they are afraid of nothing. If you saw a naked woman charging at you with a sword, you might hesitate for a second, which could cause your death.

In the end, clients are just trying to maximize profits from their target audience, which usually tends to be 18-25 year old males.

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Sorrowdusk In reply to daarken [2012-08-21 05:36:08 +0000 UTC]

Also............"nipple" armor is real.

Google "Nipple Shields" in google image search.

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Augra In reply to daarken [2011-09-12 14:33:22 +0000 UTC]

Oh, don't worry, I know the reasoning behind this type of armor, and I'm not faulting you at all. It shows up in almost every single fantasy game I've ever seen, and God knows the guys love it. I'm just making a comment in general about how, in most ways, it's just ridiculous when you think about it. Even an unskilled ten year old could take down some of these scantily clad women with a single cruddy jab to the stomach. There be some vital organs there! XD College Humor did a "female armor sucks" video that was hilarious.

I do wish these clients would start taking female gamers into account and at least offer the option for full body armor when you're allowed to customize your character. I'm tired of only being able to choose between different color chainmail bikinis if I want to be a warrior type character.

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Disembowell In reply to Augra [2015-10-21 07:56:04 +0000 UTC]

I know it's like 4 years too late but I feel I must state that Daemonette specifically don't wear armour because they're meant to seduce you before they kill you. They're also not human but creatures of the warp - belonging to the Slaanesh, the God of excess, pleasure, perversion etc. - so it actually makes sense that they're almost entirely naked.

All other females in the Warhammer universe (outside Chaos / Dark Elf forces, both intended to be perverse and overly sexualised for lore reasons as well as selling point) wear proper, practical armour.

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Sorrowdusk In reply to Augra [2012-08-21 05:38:23 +0000 UTC]

Would it be fair and balanced if they gave something for the ladies and allowed more barechested or loin cloth male warriors? (Maybe not to Reign The Conqueror levels...that was a bit too homoerotic)

I'm not the type of guy to play female toons, I always play male toons (and admittedly sometimes, I think I look more badass with my armor off)

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Augra In reply to Sorrowdusk [2012-08-24 02:06:36 +0000 UTC]

Yes, a little more equality when it comes to armor would be a big step imo. There should be a full range of options for both genders, from nearly naked to completely covered. People can complain all they want about how men have unrealistic armor in video games too, but at the heart of the issue we're not really talking about armor that's simply unrealistic because of the design or size/weight of the sword. We're talking about armor that turns someone into a seuxal object - that exists to arouse viewers. Does this occur with male characters? Yes, although far less frequently. In our modern society we are seeing more and more men being objectified sexually for the enjoyment of female viewers, but it's still nowhere near what females have historically experienced (and still do). Men are in a position of power in our world - it would be ridiculous to pretend otherwise. These issues are not on equal standing. They are both important, of course. I'm not trying to argue that discrimination/objectification of men isn't an issue that deserves our attention. It's just that the "male gaze" is far more powerful and prominent in our society. This is kind of like trying to compare racism against Caucasians to racism against African Americans. Both are despicable, but one has far more history behind it and occurs much more frequently.

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malkrow21 In reply to Augra [2011-12-19 02:03:39 +0000 UTC]

Women are guilty of wearing impractical armor in fantasy, but even men wearing impractical armor in the same setting; here are some examples: [link] [link] [link] [link] [link]

How come nobody ever talks about male warriors in fantasy wearing impractical armor? All people ever say is, "Why do these people have female warriors wear impractical armor?" but they never say, "Why do these people have male warriors wear impractical armro?" Nobody ever complains about males wear impractical armor, but they throw a fit when female warriors wear impractical armor. Double-standard.

When women wear impractical armor, they get bashed; when men wear impractical armor, they get praised. Double-standard.

Compare [link] with the last link I have of Arthas. I'm quite sure that you and I would agree that the female warrior's armor is better than the male armor in this case, but who's received the most criticism? The female warrior; nobody has said anything about the male warrior's impractical armor, but they have pointed out the flaws of the female warrior's armor. Yes, the female warrior's armor does have flaws but what makes up for her flaws is her massive shield; she can simply place her shield in front of her and that would cover her exposed guts and thighs, and assuming that she's got a visor on her helmet, she could close that down, then she'd be completely covered up without any exposed skin; can Arthas do the same? The only thing he's protecting are his legs, but why hasn't anybody pointed that out? Why hasn't anybody made any comments about his upper torso being exposed, or his arms and head? How come the male warrior can get away with his huge armor flaws, but the female warrior can get way with her minor flaws that she could probably cover up by simply placing her shield in front of her. Hell, that's probably why her armor is designed that way and why she's got a shield.

You can choose to ignore this comment or reply, just understand that I'm not trying to make an angry rant or anything; I just wish that people would include male warriors in their rants about impractical armor, and not act as if only the women wear impractical armor because that's far from the truth. Hell, men are also known for wielding weapons that are far too heavy [link]

Yes, I have said a lot; that's because there was a lot that I had to say.


P.S. That video you mentioned by College Humor definitely was funny.

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Sorrowdusk In reply to malkrow21 [2012-08-21 05:40:56 +0000 UTC]

How was the spartan impractical?

It focuses on Helm/Sheild.

And bloody Arthas WASNT wearing armor in that pic AT ALL.

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malkrow21 In reply to Sorrowdusk [2012-08-21 14:43:04 +0000 UTC]

Just a small little correction: "...women get the criticisms and the *men get the praises..." There was an earlier flaw that I made, but I don't find it important enough to correct.

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malkrow21 In reply to Sorrowdusk [2012-08-21 13:28:47 +0000 UTC]

Because all of his vital organs are exposed and Spartans hoplites--or any kind of hoplite for that matter--did not look anywhere like that. Read your history books. Granted, he isn't as sexually depicted as most female warriors tend to look when they wear impractical armor and I think that's the main reason why women get the criticisms and the main get the praises; men look big and strong and women look small and slutty. While I used to even defend those types of female warriors, I stopped because I realized it's really more of an image thing as the issue really isn't about impractical armor as people make it out to be; if it really was about impractical armor and the exposed vital organs, then why would you say, "How was the Spartan impractical?"
Basically, what I'm saying is that criticizing a female warrior for wearing impractical armor who looks slutty and and praising a male warrior despite the use of impractical armor who looks big and strong is not as hypocritical as I once thought. Because it's about the image, not so much the armor; you'd picture a warrior, be it male or female, to be very big and strong, and fierce and aggressive, and not to look like a hooker.

However, I want you to please keep in mind that this does not mean that I've stopped defending fantasy depictions of female warriors; just the slutty kinds.

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Sorrowdusk In reply to malkrow21 [2012-09-05 15:27:17 +0000 UTC]

okay fine....

[link]

[link]

so he also wore a breastplate....

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malkrow21 In reply to Sorrowdusk [2012-09-05 18:01:22 +0000 UTC]

Either you're trying to make a point of your own or you're just proving a point of mine. Personally, I'd say that it's the latter.

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Augra In reply to malkrow21 [2011-12-19 03:23:57 +0000 UTC]

I have never encountered a (scantily clad) male character in a fantasy video game whose armor was designed with the intent to sexualize and objectify his body. I did look at the links you provided, and I believe that some of those armor designs are definitely intended to appeal to female gamers, but frankly I personally have never come across these types of male armor/outfits in an actual game.

The issue I have is less with "impractical" or improperly designed armor, and more with the fact that female characters are often restricted in their choice of outfit because the creators only provided "sexy" options (to appeal to the standard 16-year-old male gamer). This strikes me as offensive in some cases because it's ignoring a significant female audience who may want to play a character that doesn't look like a medieval stripper, and/or wants their character to be more than just a massive pair of breasts. Some video game outfits, combined with poor characterization, just come across as sexist. This isn't the case with the Daemonettes, but it is with many other characters. You have to admit that the history behind hyper-sexualizing/objectifying female bodies in the media is far more prevalent than objectifying male bodies, partially because men have such a strong hand in the media industry and were, in the past, "superior" to women. Therefore, people tend to focus on the female side of the issue. To deny that many men are objectified and treated as sexual objects, though, would be wrong.

But I really have no issue with male characters holding weapons that would be impossibly heavy, etc. That's just fantasy for you.

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daarken In reply to Augra [2011-09-12 19:05:09 +0000 UTC]

Lol yeah I saw that video, it was awesome!

Yeah I agree, full body armor would be cool. I think most playable female characters have more armor than this...unless you are talking about the Witch Elf or Sorceress...they are pretty scantily clad as well. These Daemonettes are just NPCs, so they were never meant to be played or given the option of different types of armor (except tier 1 and 2). I know a lot of female gamers, heck, my wife is a female gamer, but unfortunately they do make up a much smaller percentage of the target audience. Unfortunately I think most clients have to consider the cost of creating additional assets vs. how many more copies might sell if they give more options to female gamers, and usually the female gamer tends to draw the short straw.

Hopefully as the female gamer population grows things will change.

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Sorrowdusk In reply to MaraJade94 [2012-08-21 05:33:06 +0000 UTC]

Ermaghad YOU ARE RIGHT......those are full "O" ring piercings ...I thought it was just a U thing that was stuck on their.

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