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Dametora β€” ROW ROW FIGHT DA POWAH

Published: 2010-12-18 09:35:54 +0000 UTC; Views: 17309; Favourites: 131; Downloads: 177
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Description I'm sorry for the crappy quality. I don't know why the hell it did that, and no matter what I did, no options got rid of it. :S

[EDIT]
I'm not sure if my question really applies here, considering we are speaking specifically of the Fetish category, but here it goes. [link] [link] [link] tl;dr what is exactly the reasoning behind disallowing erection photography/art? All I hear is that it's "too sexual" when the nature of the Erotica and Fetish subcategories are very sexual.
Overall most depictions of erections aren't allowed and while we do grant exceptions they are somewhat rare.
Generally speaking when we were putting together the list of themes which we made the decision that erections would not be allowed and that decision was based at least in part on legal advice. ~
Ah, I see then. That clears it up better.
You mentioned the granting of exceptions. Is the process and criteria whereby such exceptions are granted something you're free to go into? (For those unaware, deviantART has this big scary nondisclosure agreement legal setup where you spontaniously combust if you've got loose lips.)
Also, while I entirely support and applaud such exceptions, I imagine it would anger and confuse sections of the community who already feel they've been marginalised and discriminated against, and hypocritically, given this. Do you feel information dissemination that would help to calm this issue is a challenge?
Dametora: Just so you know, we're short on time, so please have your question pre-typed before we get to you. Thanks.
Unfortunately granting exceptions for certain content, like depicted erection, isn't something which has been formally standardized. Something like that typically comes about because the artistic styling or the artistic statement seems (subjectively) to be good enough to make the exception.
No, it's not at all a standard or "fair" decision making process and we don't expect to use it often. ~

So there you have it, folks. Erections are generally not allowed because of mysterious legal advice. That suits a bit better than what we've been told.
Also, artwork that doesn't fall within the boundaries set by the FAQ may remain up. It depends on the one answering the report, if something is reported.
So, knock on wood, folks.

I love how in the report thing for porn, it lists erections now, without specifying that, according to the FAQ, it's only erections that are "meant to illicit a sexual response."

Also, again, the fact that male nudes that are "meant to illicit a sexual response" are against the rules, but the same is not said of female nudes.

So it seems it was in preparation for their change to the rule.
Erections are now only for "educational"/"medical" use.

Bravo on the sexism dA.

[link]

Below the HR line is old shit.
Back when the erections rule said that erections were fine "unless intended to elicit a sexual response" (ie: meant to make you horny).

That rule was fucking stupid considering we have fetish and erotica subcategories for various main categories. What, do they think those aren't meant to "elicit a sexual response"? Fucking seriously.

Now the rule's been changed to where erections aren't allowed period unless for "medical or educational purposes" and they need to have proof that's what it's for. Like, seriously? Proof? Good luck with that, then.

Read:
[link]
[link]
Why aren't erections allowed? It makes no sense.
So I'm waiting for this supposed interview to explain it, as everything I get is "it's too sexual!" when I've reported shit tons of things that were blatantly fucking sexual and they came back as invalid.
EX: [link] [link] [link] [link] [link] (and the whole "Sensual Pleasure," "Hot Time," and "Never Forget This Time..." series)

$chix0r said we could contact her if we found any violations that slipped under the radar. I did note her, twice, but she hasn't gotten to it.

But, take a look at this...
[link]
[link]

There's also this;
[link]

I love it how whenever you think something is porn and report it as such, you're just a prude. The fucking dA "Invalid" response even includes this accusation:
"Please remember that while this image might meet your own personal definition for "pornography", your personal view and official policy could differ in several areas."

As I pointed out in that forum thread, it's ironically actually dA which are the prudes. They think porn is not art.
But porn is art. It's just art that's not allowed on dA. Or at least, what they define as porn, which is, as pointed out above "a schizophrenic stance" that they've taken in regards to porn.

Do I seem like a prude to you all? Or a woman-hater? Me, the bisexual who would talk about tits all day if you let her, always ready to inform you of how the female sexual response works? I'm a prude against female nudes?
Honestly.
----------------------------------
Nothing special, nothing fancy. Just a simple message.

You'll all remember my journal about the sexism of dA when it comes to artistic nudity , I'm sure.
You'll also remember my brief disgruntledness at the further lack of upholding the rules they've set, especially when it comes to women, too.

What happened to the human body being beautiful? An erection is a natural process not necessarily always tied with sexual arousal, and if so why is it that that isn't okay but images of women possibly sexually aroused is? It's not a man's fault should he get a woodie whilst being nude. Women may be more subtly sexually aroused, but yet when sexual arousal is clearly being instigated, ex the series masturbating women... it's still okay, as long as it's a woman and not a man...?

But yeah, I've already gotten into that.

This rather reminds me how apparently in Australia they're considering banning, or at least putting a very strong filter on, pornography of perceivably small-breasted women. The reason is that they "appear underaged." Consequently this could leak to men with perceived smaller penises or scrotal sacs. They also have set this up on porn containing female ejaculation, and a few other things.
How does it remind me? Because it's also based on what a "reasonable person" considers abnormal or offensive, etc.
"Reasonable person"... someone who purposely seeks these things out to report them for putting the slightest toe out of their personally established line? That's what it is. There's no such thing as a "reasonable person" in these kinds of things. Everyone has their own bias. Some people find the word "fuck" offensive whilst others do not. Which group are the "reasonable people"? In some places in the world, a "reasonable person" beats a woman should she be deemed by a "reasonable person" as being insolent, in other places no "reasonable person" would lay a hand on another person in a violent manner, no matter the reason.

As there is no REAL consensus of a definition of a "reasonable person," rules (and laws) pandering to them sould be eliminated. It's about as useful as basing everything around a Siamese cat's wants.

(ps - reference to stereotype about Siamese cats being fickle, Oompa Loompa Doopity Do...)

Though, it's an entirely different subject that I've already touched upon why it's related in aforementioned first journal. So, to bring it back...

Simply put, erections can be art, too.



OHHH CRAP GUYS IT'S A CHICK DEFENDING MEN'S RIGHTS. OH MY FUCKING GOD NO WAY.


Since someone's definitely gonna open their mouth before reading said journal, let me extract the exact piece I am mostly referring to:
"No, seriously, look at this, from the same FAQ:
"β€’ Erections.
There should be no use of imagery depicting a male erection that a reasonable person would believe is intended to elicit a sexual response."

Wait... so... wait what?
So, what this tells me is that an image of an erection is okay as long as it's not meant to turn the viewer on.
However, images are removed any way if there's even any hint of an erection, yes even a partial erection, because the FAQ is just vaguely worded enough that it eliminates all images related.
ALSO it basically states that any image reported will be removed, since one can assume only "reasonable people" use the report system, eh? [glances at all of you who've had your images unfairly removed or wrongly accused of copyright violation].
I have seen such unfairness in erection imagery; someone made a series of ... very odd nude images. Don't know how to describe them, but one got a DD. "nObOdY pArTs" I believe is the name of the series. Anyway, I looked up the images that were removed, which had erections in them. They were not sexual in any way, the man was not stimulating himself, it was just expressiveness with an erection. Artistic Nude.
Yet it was still removed.
So, there's a bit of initial unfairness, but let's back up a bit.
A MALE image that could possibly turn the viewer on is against violation, but it says nothing about FEMALE images meant for such. There can be no MALE sexual images, but FEMALE ones are completely all right.
I mean, holy shit, do you all realize how many people make comments about how sexual someone is in a nude picture, male or female? And all the males have to worry about getting removed if someone should find their sexiness offensive and think they have an erection. How the hell is basing a policy on "what a reasonable person finds sexual" fair at all in ANY case?"
Related content
Comments: 137

mordrelupis [2011-07-01 03:56:55 +0000 UTC]

Hmmm I wonder if they could be sued under the Charter.... probs not unfortunately though it would be a very interesting sexual discrimination case XD

I think the whole "porn sexual whatever" thing is a bit pointless. Most people, if not everyone, have or are going to have a very good idea of what both sexes genitilia look like at some point. Why the damn taboo's? Isn't skin on a breast the same damn skin as on an arm?

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TrueMefista [2011-06-22 01:32:58 +0000 UTC]

It's just because most mods are male and want to look only on sweety guuurls.
Damn><

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blueheron93 In reply to TrueMefista [2011-07-11 20:29:43 +0000 UTC]

This.

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TrueMefista In reply to blueheron93 [2011-07-11 22:12:33 +0000 UTC]

This happens all the time.

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flying-cuttlefish [2011-06-21 21:57:24 +0000 UTC]

Given all the submissions of women handling their genitalia in such a manner, I don't see why erections shouldn't be allowed. If the admins want to get rid of the idea of this site having pornography then they need to get rid of it, featuring females and males alike.

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Dametora In reply to flying-cuttlefish [2011-06-21 22:04:59 +0000 UTC]

Exactly.

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Vsencke [2011-05-31 17:21:03 +0000 UTC]

I have mixed feelings.

Though I agree with the fact that, yes erections can be art as well, I don't agree that the faggots of dA are mature or ready enough for that... privilege?

I mean, most peen0r on dA IS an erection and isn't artistic at all.

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RMXTrailMix [2011-05-26 05:52:31 +0000 UTC]

Sounds like misandry to me.
Didn't $Lolly take pride in seeing his site full of vaginal erotica, going as far as to applaud the "arists" of nude art?

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Dametora In reply to RMXTrailMix [2011-05-26 06:11:43 +0000 UTC]

I didn't hear about that, actually, but it wouldn't surprise me.

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Valadix [2011-05-25 14:07:15 +0000 UTC]

Woot sexism

Please get your act together, DA...

As rational as this argument already is, are there some examples of artworks you can link us to which prove the point of this stamp? I guess it would be quite subjective, which unfortunately may work against what you're trying to argue, but I think you'd make your argument SOOO much stronger than it already is if you could back it up with some examples...

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Dametora In reply to Valadix [2011-05-25 18:00:32 +0000 UTC]

Examples such as? Linking offsite to things that were deleted as "pornography" would be against the rules.

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Valadix In reply to Dametora [2011-05-26 00:21:59 +0000 UTC]

Sorry, I got nothing. I'm not exactly an expert on the artistic nude ...

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MaliceXLove [2011-05-10 00:17:33 +0000 UTC]

I think it's kind of ridiculous that I get cartoon depictions of strange fetishes, such as women with tits the size of semis suffocating people on the main page, but the only erections considered legitimate are the ones that can be proved beyond a reasonable doubt are educational.

I've seen art of cherubs and children nude-- cartoon characters stated to be under the age of 18 screwing each others brains out on this site, but an erection is a step too far.

As soon as there's a viable alternative to DA without this silly sexism, I'm there.

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Rocky-Vermillion [2011-04-20 16:21:38 +0000 UTC]

They don't allow it because of the little kiddies on the site :I
and they don't want DA to turn into FA. If you're so desperate to post a picture of a boner upload it there their rules.

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TDLBallistic [2011-04-20 03:25:19 +0000 UTC]

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motherofsephy [2011-03-23 16:36:52 +0000 UTC]

Apparently $chix0r bases whether something is pr0n or not on the staff members getting arroused.
However, if it's an erection, it = AUTOMATIC arrousal. WTF?

I've seen films like Caligula that had erections, but never "turned me on." It was a beautiful Art film!!!!!

Hats off to this stamp. ^___^

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LadyKylin [2011-03-22 21:20:18 +0000 UTC]

I'm fine as it's filtuered, I know that artist nudes do exsist and all that but I'm from a very conservative background so I do not like seeing naked people all over the place, it makes me uncomfortable simple as that. Is that reasoanble, is it not who knows, what I do think is reasonalbe is that such art is filtered so we don't have 13 year olds seeing stuff that could easily pass as porn. I really wish they would take more care in filtering in truth becuase even some of the stuff that isn't filtered can make me uncomfortable, can't imagine what my parents would have thought if they'd seen that on a page when I was 13. Probably woulnd't have been allowed on the internet for a long while.

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BoonakwaDeka [2011-03-21 06:25:21 +0000 UTC]

Well, that's just a piece of SHIT.

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RolkStone [2011-03-21 02:58:12 +0000 UTC]

you're godamn right! I'm so tired of this site treating sex and sexuality and the nude form as something to be ashamed of. Whether an erection is "meant" to sexually excite the audience or not, it's still a part of the body and should still be featured in art, just like everything else.

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aoishounen7 [2011-03-21 02:19:53 +0000 UTC]

Here here! The penis is beautiful too!

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Trillo-Lillo [2011-03-21 01:32:09 +0000 UTC]

I'm against both erections and the pics you reported and were found invalid e__e

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Dametora In reply to Trillo-Lillo [2011-03-21 01:35:31 +0000 UTC]

That's all right too. Fair is fair.

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Gwydionland [2011-03-20 22:38:24 +0000 UTC]

Wow! Sexism is exactly the word I'm looking when I see all that ladies in some weird positions...

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P3dy [2011-03-20 20:51:23 +0000 UTC]

I was happy for our new art nudes GM, because she loves featuring male nudes.
But.
When I see all the roped girls in the fetish gallery, piercings all over intimate areas, macro shots of female genitalia, two girls playing with each other's random bodypart, latex playthings... I just feel something is terribly wring here. Shitload of lesbporn, and women in rather humiliating situations, yet no much of tasteful, artistic male nude. Male body is considered ugly? (I could kill people saying such. It can be as gorgeous as any female...) Or are guys too shy? I don't think so.
I would give 2 options.
-Either give equal "rights" to male nudes
-Or have a serious fucking hellraising over the artnude and fetish(especially this second one..) galleries, and burn down everything that is more likely pr0n than arts.

Either way, this site is not what it's used to be. too many users, too many trolls, too much drama. Arrogant crew, arrogant members, and pointless flamewars over beliefs on sexuality, politics, artistic quality, etc.
I want the COMMUNITY back. Instead of community now we have a tremendous load of shit. Where can I go to applause?

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IcyUmbreon [2011-03-20 20:28:22 +0000 UTC]

What I find particularly weird is how drawn/photographed erections = bad, but you can write anything as explicit as you want.

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Dametora In reply to IcyUmbreon [2011-03-20 20:29:00 +0000 UTC]

Actually, you can't. There are rules for that as well. Though they are more lenient than image rules, iirc.

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Ouchez [2011-03-20 19:22:01 +0000 UTC]

I just don't get how they say that it can not be sexually arousing however these women doing BLATANTLY sexual things are EVERYWHERE!
To be honest I think it is just because in our culture we are used to seeing sexualized women everywhere it doesn't stick out or seem as offensive sometimes as a male who is naked or has an erection.

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BitterKiwi [2011-03-20 18:38:38 +0000 UTC]

Vaginas everywhere is awwwww-right, but one happy penis and suddenly everyone flips the fuck out.

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Illusion-Factory In reply to BitterKiwi [2011-03-21 00:29:16 +0000 UTC]

I have so much like for your comment I cannot really express it.

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simplyme177 [2011-03-20 18:17:11 +0000 UTC]

I think part of the problem is how male and female genitalia work. When females get aroused, there usually isn't as strong a physical indicator of their arousal, whereas men tend to get erections. Because of this, there is a strong tie between erections and sexuality, because when men have erections, it is (most of the time) because they are sexually aroused. Women don't have that problem. Therefore I can see why DA would ban it.

HOWEVER, I'm not necessarily taking DA's side on this. You make an excellent point. While women don't have that physical indictor of arousal, DA does allow tons of sexually explicit pictures of women that would be categorized as masturbation, basically, and it's accepted. I feel part of this acceptance has to do with our culture's view towards women, who are blatantly sexualized in the media and in our lifestyle. Since we're exposed to it constantly, we also tend to be more desensitized to it. Seeing a nude male, aroused, however, tends to be viewed as "unacceptable behavior", because in our culture it is women who are objectified, and men who lust. Lusting men = natural. Lusting women = unnatural. (I could so go into our culture's definition of what's "Natural" too, but that might take too long )

It may be frowned upon for a man to watch porn (or to cheat on their girlfriends/spouses), but typically its paired with an "oh well. It's programed in them to that. They can't help it" sort of mentality. Women who cheat or watch porn are just sluts.

I guess I'm sort of getting off topic here... I guess what I'm trying to say is that I agree with your input that Deviant Art is sexist when it comes to nude art. Part of that is probably due to our society. Looking at it from a legal perspective, I can see why Deviant art would ban erections since it is such a stigmatized concept and can be viewed as "more sexual" than female exposure, which could get them in a lot of trouble if young viewers somehow see it and sue, even with the mature feature on.

This does not make it A-OK though. They're trying to be open by saying "some erections are acceptable", but it's mainly just pissing people off. For example, you make another valid point: I mean, really, how can you define whether an erection is meant to illicit a purely sexual response or not? That's nearly impossible to say when sometimes the point of art is meant to shock and disturb you. DA should either all out say: "No Erections". or "Erections are OK". No in-betweens. And if they say "no erections", they SHOULD say "no sexually explicit art" altogether.

SO, I feel like Deviant art has two choices at this point. Rid of ALL sexual art altogether, or allow sexually explicit pictures of both sexes. If they don't, I feel like they're going to continue upsetting people for a long time to come... for a LONG, LONG, long time. They need to make a choice.

Whew! This was exhausting to write.

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TheDibLuver In reply to simplyme177 [2011-03-21 02:09:49 +0000 UTC]

Exactly.

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Dametora In reply to simplyme177 [2011-03-20 19:29:02 +0000 UTC]

Well I'm glad you read it, it's very valid input

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Lawcere In reply to simplyme177 [2011-03-20 18:22:33 +0000 UTC]

Agreed! (I like how I didn't have to write a long response lol)

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SnowOutsideMyWindow [2011-03-20 16:28:57 +0000 UTC]

So on da, apparantly- its completely okidokey to put up pictures that are ment to be erotic and sexual- but only as long as it is a womans body not a mans... makes great sense da o.O

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Dametora In reply to SnowOutsideMyWindow [2011-03-20 19:29:55 +0000 UTC]

Totally!

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Ionosphere-Negate [2011-03-20 16:12:05 +0000 UTC]

They need to get their story straight.

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amandaje [2011-03-20 15:43:27 +0000 UTC]

Hm. Perhaps DA wants us to go back to the fig leaf?

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xXBandaXx [2011-03-20 14:05:01 +0000 UTC]

for goodness sake why are you getting all butthurt over not being able to post willies?
surely theres more pertinent things worthy of stamps like i dunno supportin libya and their quest for a democrasy or supporting japan in light of their recent flood?
but instead the most stamp worthy thing you can come up with is Erections are art too? people are dying from drinking dirty water and other disease we can easily cure with a single tablet or course of anti-biotics and your whinging bout not being able to post a dick?
Grow the hell up oand open your eyes look at the bigger picture

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Dametora In reply to xXBandaXx [2011-03-20 19:29:28 +0000 UTC]

u mad bro?

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xXBandaXx In reply to Dametora [2011-03-20 19:53:21 +0000 UTC]

lol

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ProbablyFlying In reply to xXBandaXx [2011-03-20 16:55:42 +0000 UTC]

Just because something isn't about some tragic world issue, it's not worth expressing your opinion about it? Great, that's just lovely.
Not that the issues in Libya or Japan aren't more important, they really are, but the poster of this stamp wanted to express their feelings about this subject. Sure, it's not the most important issue, but I'm sure a lot of people on DA are upset about this too, even if it doesn't affect me or you.

By the way, sorry if this post seemed rude in any way, I mean no disrespect.

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xXBandaXx In reply to ProbablyFlying [2011-03-20 17:42:53 +0000 UTC]

Theres no need to be sorry i see you point completely and you expressed it in a polite and respectful way
I understand now and apologize for belittling the artist with my original post its just i personally cant see why people would think of post a picture of just a penis art because ive seen this done where someones merely taken a picture of an erection or spraypainted it blue and called it art but i really dont think it is id have no qualms if they were artiustic nudes featuring more than just a penis for example a full body shot where the model happens to be naked is something id find completely acceptable as art because the focus is not on the penis but on the beauty of the human body and id say the same about those who post picture of just vaginas but ive contradicting the artists original post ive never seen a picture with just a vagina on the front page ive seen some poor excuses for art that just have some scene kid snapping her cleavage with her phone up on the front page [ which i dont think particularly deserve DA but as somebody else pointed out who am i to judge] im just saying people probably wouldnt be so averse to picture of dicks of there were more submitioned of that kind that were more artistic than just picture of dicks and

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ProbablyFlying In reply to xXBandaXx [2011-03-20 18:22:40 +0000 UTC]

Of course, I see your point.
I personally don't take too much interest in the artistic nude section, as I'm not one for nude pictures. I've seen some genuinely artistic and beautiful pictures in that section when I do look there, although there are some which, in my opinion, are just excuses to show off their privates. (However, like you said, who am I to judge?)
Of course, what qualifies as art varies from person to person, and I'm sure that there could be some erection pictures that are genuinely artistic. I suppose the issue is that, although some wouldn't be so keen on seeing pictures of erections, some aren't so keen on seeing pictures of a vagina either but many of those pictures are allowed while pictures of male genitalia are, as IceFarie said, considered to be too 'erotic'. You're allowed to post erotic pictures as long as they're of a woman.
I kind of started rambling there. I'm personally not to keen on seeing pictures of a guy's penis either, but I don't really find it fair to the people who are and I see why people are upset by the DA rules.

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xXBandaXx In reply to ProbablyFlying [2011-03-20 18:34:58 +0000 UTC]

I agree if that is whats going on then it is unfair should be supported i was only pointing out that the support could be better directed is all i do agrre with the majority of you above post though

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ProbablyFlying In reply to xXBandaXx [2011-03-20 18:46:53 +0000 UTC]

Perfectly understandable.

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xXBandaXx In reply to ProbablyFlying [2011-03-20 18:55:32 +0000 UTC]

^^

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Lawcere In reply to xXBandaXx [2011-03-20 17:57:10 +0000 UTC]

The problem is the difference between what one person says is art and another person says is art.

The main issue here is that DA's censorship is faulty, and seemingly sexist. There can be tons of smutty pictures of a woman's vagina with no artistic quality at all, but it will remain up. While pictures of nude men are rarely allowed because they are "too sexual". Nobody wants Slutty Susan or Ho Harry posting their crotch all over the front page. Artists just want to be able to post elegant and tasteful nude art of both genders fairly.

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xXBandaXx In reply to Lawcere [2011-03-20 18:16:04 +0000 UTC]

I agree completely it is certainly an issue of opinion whilst i personaly dont beleive pictures that solely feature willies [or vaginas]are art because as far as i can see there is no meaning or purpose towards doing so but there are those who may disagree with me.
since our discussion has become a matter of opinion im not sure if theres much point in continuing this particular debate.
Ill admit though that you have raised a valid point and in recognition of this if i see a picture of an artistic male nude being slated i will argue your point saying this in my own opinion I do still beleive that this stamp could have been directed at a cause more deserving than this.

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Lawcere In reply to xXBandaXx [2011-03-20 18:18:53 +0000 UTC]

*shrugs* Fair enough.

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IceFarie In reply to xXBandaXx [2011-03-20 16:12:53 +0000 UTC]

The point is supposed to be is that there are hundreds of images of artistic nudes of females, and that there's a DD for one nearly every day, but male artistic nudes are considered too 'erotic'. The artist chose to make a stamp on something she felt important. The artists 'butthurt' is over the fact that there's no equality between the genders here; which is just as noble pursuit as supporting Libya or Japan. Equality between genders has always been an issue, but it’s not just women who are discriminated against, it’s the men too, and from personal experience I’ve noticed that this is especially true in terms of artwork. The artist is trying to bring awareness to the fact that this inequality between the genders is wrong.

As for recent event relating to artwork, why don't you take a look at your own gallery and tell me you did artwork to support japan or Libya, curing diseases and cleaning water. your art doesn't seem to support the 'bigger picture' you preach.

"Before you start pointing fingers, make sure your hands are clean" ~Bob Marley

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