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Daniel-Abreu — Sauron vs Vader
Published: 2014-03-25 10:52:13 +0000 UTC; Views: 12236; Favourites: 282; Downloads: 0
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After an hefty amount of hours, here it is. Vader vs Sauron. There were so many different versions and tweaks I wanted to do with this one, however you can have only one final version, thus I opted for a kind of cinematography style with a bit of lens flare that, I hope you agree, gives it an interesting feel of motion.All done in photoshop, except the background that was done in Vue 10
What do you think? Feel free to comment to your hearts content.
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Comments: 72
Vader destroys Sauron's body, Vader then finds the ring. Some time later Vader and/or Palpatine bend the knee to Sauron who now sits in Palpatine's place as dark lord of the galaxy.
Sauron endures as long as his ring survives, and with how evil a Sith is they'd be corrupted in less then a heartbeat.
Sauron may not win the physical fight, but he'll win in the end.
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AFAIK Sauron was worried about someone capable to bending the One Ring into his will. Assuming that Palpatine would be able to do this we would have no Sauron at all.
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Palpatine would be corrupted instantly, as the Force wouldn't protect him from high tier magic. He is just a man after all, an incredibly wicked man. Easy pickings.
Magic > the Force
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Artistically, cool; but vader would fry out his own circuits if he utilized lightning.
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He CAN use a ball of electricity, but not actually use Force Lightning.
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I believe you're referencing a precedent where he uses a ball form of force lightning in a comic, yes? If i'm not mistaken he did in fact damage much of his suit during that event. I am admittedly quite rusty on my starwars extended fiction, however.
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Wait, really? Huh, I must be mistaken. I had better look into it.
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First of all, before I lash out at the people in the comment section, I want to say, great art.
Seocnd of all, to everyone who said "omgzzzz sauron lolzstumpz Maia's etc etc etc", congratulations, you have proven your own stupidity.
Sauron's titles and lifespan mean nothing. Sauron automatically winning because he can corrupt by speaking is by far the most retarded argument I have heard in a while.
Vader, in his weakened canon state, can make extremely durable chitinous troll sized creatures explode by merely extending his hand. he casually moves FTE. He brought down a millennium falcon sized ship through sheer telekinetic strength once, mid flight.
and sauron has...done nothing really. His equal in rank (and presumably strength) during the first age was killed by a random elf in a murder-suicide. But no, that doesn't matter to Tolkien fanboys does it?
Then there's the absolute idiocy of fanboys who claim that NO sith EVER could beat Sauron. Yeah, to Angband with Palpatine's planet wrecking force storms, soul killing abilities, planet-wide life drains. To hell with KOTORs sith who casually hold starships together all day and night. No, some featless guy with a ring trumps all that Amirite?
Vader stomps the actual fight 11/10. Sidious stomps 20/10.
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The first and most important thing that you must consider when talking about a being like Sauron is the fact that these guys, which are known as Maiar (Sauron's race) and the Valar (Morgoth's race), are immortal (in its most literal sort of sense where there is simply no way that they could die), and also incredibly powerful. Most of the fans don't even realize just how powerful these guys really are, simply for the fact that Tolkien has a very good habit of keeping his characters and villains from blindly showing off their powers like some big firework display. While I absolutely adore Vader, and you could very well argue that his incredible Force powers or super Force lighting and soul draining could literally tear Sauron's body and armor as well as his spirit apart, the reality of it is that these opponents are just going to keep coming back without a sign of stopping. There's simply nothing that exist in the Tolkien universe that can permanently eliminate them except through 'subduing' by superior force (only from other fellow Maiar and Valar) or crippling their powers away in the first place (Which is also impossible except for the rare instance when Sauron deliberately exposed that vulnerability when he created the One Ring).
A fight between Vader and Sauron would be a match between a guy that can manipulate water, versus another guy who's made entirely of water. Water is everywhere, and it'll come back to bite his ass. The only way that the fight would be fair is that Vader would have to fight Sauron at the Crack of Doom while wearing the One Ring (In that scenario Vader will actually have a pretty good chance, but nowhere else).
And with Morgoth? There's just absolutely no competition, even with all the Siths combined in the Star Wars universe. He was Sauron's ultimate master, and nearly broke creation itself trying to defeat the forces of Valinor, which was a literal army of immortal gods. And he fought these kinds of wars more than once. And even then he's prophesied to return.
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If some scrub like Isildur can defeat Sauron, then Vader can do so too.
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If you're talking about a simple physical match (such as a battle that decides which one can destroy their opponent's physical force, or sword-fighting) then absolutely, Vader can win that duel in minutes. If it's to-the-death kind however, that is purely impossible. Sauron, like all of his kind, is 100% immortal. It's not until the destruction of the Ring that he can be truly considered completely powerless, but not dead even then. And until you actually destroy the ring, he can always be back for a rematch.
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Let him come back for one rematch after another. Vader and his successors can repeat his defeat. From Luke to Lumiya to Ashoka, they're all better than that scrub Isildur.
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A rematch against Sauron would be extremely difficult for Vader. If his body is destroyed in the first duel, then it's reasonable to say that he is now a spirit with no actual physical form to be defeated by. Which automatically renders any Force usage or lightsaber battle completely useless. He'll have the ability to unleash all of his magic without restraining himself whatsoever.
The only way for Vader to have the ultimate win, is that he would need to duel Sauron at the Crack of Doom, where the ring can be destroyed. Then he has a great chance. Anywhere else is just asking yourself to get killed.
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Except without a body, Sauron can't fight. He can't do jack shift until he gets back the Ring so he can fight again as a living creature. By which Vader or one of his successors would once again lop off his ring finger and defeat him. Again.
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I sometime chuckle at the fact of how clueless people are at the powers behind these incredibly cunning and deadly villains Tolkien created (for good reason). Sauron is the single deadliest threat ever to exist after his master had fallen. He's not just some walking juggernaut or black cloud floating around uselessly and yelling angrily at his orcs to do things in his name, he wields magic and influence that is both ancient and extremely powerful even without the ring to aid him. So powerful in fact that simple mortals can be driven insane or burned by his mere presence. And magic like that is all you need to tear someone like Vader to pieces.
The real reason as to why exactly Sauron even lost his ring in the first place was through sheer arrogance and pride. The success of the ring was so good, that he wanted to prove to all the kings in the last alliance, that he could single handedly destroy them without any magic required. Which of course, backfired spectacularly. But give him a rematch, and he will never make that mistake again.
So I will say it again, the only way Vader stands a chance, any chance whatsoever, is for Sauron to be dumb a second time or with the ring on at the Crack of Doom, and nowhere else.
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Actually, you're over-inflating Sauron's threat. Sauron is a magical threat, not a physical one. And Vader is so powerful he once took control of powerful Force beings that control the totality of light and dark. While Sauron stumbled into power, Vader was preordained with it. And no, Vader can drive people insane too. In the recent Rebels cartoon, a powerful Jedi decided to peek into Vader's mind to find out more about him. The resulting psychic backlash caused the Jedi to lapse into seizure and fall unconscious. And this Jedi was so powerful she was slaughtering whole armies of droids during the time girls first learn about what a period is.
Sauron was touted as a great sorcerer and spiritual threat. He was also noted as someone who does very poorly in face-to-face combat. He has a better chance of defeating enemies through machinations and seduction, not through martial fighting. Hence why a guy with a dagger for a sword defeated him quite easily, while Vader wouldn't have fallen to such a chump even in his most arrogant and prideful of times.
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I never said he was great at close combat. I did admit that if it ever comes to a simple physical one on one confrontation, Vader could win it easily. But the sheer magical potential that Sauron wields, and given the chance to unleash it, would simply make hand to hand combat completely redundant. He only lost the ring at Dagorlad because he was so powerful while wearing it that he did not wanted to exert himself. He wanted to prove that he did not need to use his top powers to defeat the kings of the alliance, which has always been his favorite method of defeating his enemies. And if Sauron kept doing this, then of course he would lose.
We're arguing on the basis that this battle would take place with both of these characters in their top potential. Vader can very well unleash incredible Force powers both physically and mentally, but Sauron is completely immune to any such attacks at full potential (being an angelic being), and can easily mindwash anyone who is mortal given range (Tolkien had stated that Aragorn would not had been able to face him personally). And the simple fact is, that Vader is still human and susceptible to this. This isn't me inflating his power, it's right there in Tolkien's work, you can look up the duel between Sauron and Finrod.
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At their top potential? Vader can practically take over the Ones and use them to wipe out the universe. The most Sauron can do is hijack creation. At his best, Vader could've taken control of the Ones in Mortis and used them to wipe out whole worlds at his beck and call. At his best, Sauron couldn't take over ONE world. At his best, Vader can destroy scores of worlds. Especially if he had learned the Sith powers that Naga Sadow, Darth Nihilus, and Emperor Valkorion wielded. Vader's problem was a lack of knowledge.
You obviously didn't watch any of the new shows or material on Vader. The most Sauron can do to him is add to his power. He can corrupt Vader, yes, but it'll only make Vader even more stronger, especially when Vader could control the Ones, who are far more powerful than Sauron ever will be, since they can ruin the universe by just leaving their homes.
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Yes, I was arguing on a position based on the Star Wars movies only. Since I don't have the time or patience to go through the very unwieldy EU. But I was never aware of the Ones in Mortis so that's a mistake on my part.
Star Wars deals with a universe that is set on a galactic stage, Sauron is limited on a physical world barely the size of earth. So already there is a significant difference to consider when merging these two settings together. Sauron's power is sourced directly from the plain of his world, and if you remove all of that and transfer him into the Star Wars universe, then he's no better than the husk he became after the one ring is destroyed. So if we want to provide a fair fight then we'll have to put Vader into Arda (Tolkien's world) itself, and this will also be very limited for Vader as well, considering that Arda has strict limitations set under an omnipotent deity that will not allow any power to break his creation.
But for the sake of argument, let's provide an alternate setting where only the powers of these two characters matter, Vader is a prophesied Force god capable of vaporizing entire worlds with his will or his mind at fullest potential (Let's grant him that). Sauron is a powerful angelic and immortal being with a weapon capable of manipulating the minds of much lesser races. On a simple physical duel, yes, Sauron will lose, this is obvious. As I have said before. But remember, Sauron does not need a body to survive. He can very much live as a spirit, and without one he would naturally be completely untouchable by the Force itself (No amount of soul manipulation will do anything either since he's literally 100% immortal). And in this state, Sauron will still be just as powerful and indestructible. Vader would literally be trying to kill a ghost that's made of little more than magic and fire blowing on his face for eternity.
The only way you can have Vader truly defeat Sauron, the only way at all, is to destroy the One Ring. As I have reiterated again.
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You can forget about the EU. I'm only going with what Disney considers canon. The games, shows and the movies. Any dipshit with Internet acces can go browse them on Youtube. No need to buy some books or check Wookieepedia.
And Vader can seize the powers of people who have communed fully with the Light Side or the Dark. That's pretty much the same as Sauron controlling all the Rings via the One Ring, except he doesn't need to do it via rings. If Vader retained control of the Ones and left behind the mortal world for good, he'd not only be as strong as Sauron during Sauron's height of power, he'd also have complete control of the Light Side. Which means he'd be stronger than Sauron, since he'd have the power to not get corrupted like Sauron was because he'd also have full Light Side powers.
As for Sauron's spirit, as I've told someone else, Vader and his successors can go on and kill him every time he takes a physical form. All Jedi, by technicality, are similar to Sauron in that respect: they become utterly indestructible and eternally powerful in the Force when they die. The Sith can do the same thing, hence why Korriban and Dromund Kaas have such insane dark-side energies in it. So Sauron being able to live on as a powerful spirit untouched by mortals is something both the Jedi and Sith can do. Sauron's not unique in that regard. In fact, if you want to cite the EU, Palpatine was given the same offer by the Ancient Sith when he was losing in Dark Empire. They invited him to share in living in the "Darkness of never dying." And yes, the Force can still hurt ghosts-it is a spiritual power, after all, and Vader was able to seize the Ones despite the fact that they can be as intangible as spirits. So Sauron's not safe.
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I already said and admitted to the fact that if a physical battle between Vader and Sauron ever took place, Sauron would lose it fast. The problem here is not how well Vader could fight, or how strong he is with the Force, the problem is the fact that Sauron can apply his magic even in his spiritual form, a form that Vader will have no power or use to apply over. And this alone exhausts Vader of his chance to even gain a victory.
Of course, if Vader can apply his powers to Sauron's spiritual form, then we're leveling the playing field much better. But that isn't very helpful either as the status of Sauron's immortality can't be disputed, there is simply no way for the angelic beings of his kind to be harmed or destroyed. It is part of his inherited nature since before the dawn of creation. Imprisoned or subdued however, yes. But perhaps that is as far Vader can gain towards a victory. So okay, let's say Vader holds Sauron's soul under his feet triumphantly with his awesome Force powers. Let's consider this as Vader's second victory. It's still just a matter of time before Sauron can rise back up again to stab Vader in the back at the slightest loosening of his grip. He has an eternity of time to wait after all.
But I will concede this battle to Vader if you can find something that confirms that he can indeed hold Sauron totally subdued for the whole of eternity. Otherwise, even at the slightest slip, Vader's defeat will still be certain. And that is very much how Sauron plays his game and he knows it.
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Except for the fact that most magics won't work against a Dark Lord of the Sith. Also, it took thousands of years for Sauron's magic to grow back in strength after he was defeated-so if Vader defeats him, nobody is gonna give a rat's ass about Sauron for until long after Vader has become one with the Force. And once Vader has become one with the Force, he's surpassed Sauron in everything, magic, power, spirit-all of them. So if Vader kills Sauron's physical form, his spirit would also weaken, and by the time Sauron's strength returns, Vader would've already become one with the Force and truly immortal. And by then, Sauron won't be able to contend with him.
And no, Vader, at his pinnacle, could keep the Ones under control; and the Ones certainly had more power than Sauron because they could destroy the universe just by leaving their house. So no, if Vader, at his pinnacle, chose to keep Sauron's ghost as a prisoner, Sauron will be at Vader's beck and call until Vader dies a natural death.
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As we've established, we were arguing on the idea that these two characters are at the top of their potential on the moment of battle. Meaning that the only way that Sauron would get hurt at all is that he would lose the ring once again, and that he's now smart enough not to make that mistake. At Dagorlad, Sauron was so powerful he only wanted to stand over the kings of the alliance and allow them that hope of victory before he would squash them under his heel (because total victory is not what Sauron ever preferred, he wants submission and despair), but he can easily have chosen not to and simply breezed through their armies single-handedly at full strength. This was the only reason that Sauron ever needed so much time to recuperate (As the ring was part of his soul).
But if he ever did that stupid mistake again in this duel, then of course, Vader can defeat him easily. As I have said. However, we've established that the ring doesn't leave him, because this is his full potential. So he easily rises back up at his most powerful form in front of Vader. A form that cannot be broken in any way.
And no, Sauron would not convince himself to serve Vader (That's the only way he could be seduced, as he's completely immune to mindcontrol or mindwash as well). Sauron is absolutely loyal to only one master, a master that Vader would be pulverized at the very sight of, (And please don't try to argue how Vader can also defeat Morgoth. That would be even more laughable.)
Haven't you learned that no amount of power matters when the fact remains that nothing at all can kill or maim Sauron's soul? Even with the universe destroyed that doesn't matter at all. Sauron is still immortal. Always, no matter what happens. The only way to truly defeat him is to destroy the ring (even then he didn't die). And even without wearing it, he's an immortal of infinite and exhaustless power that never ever tires.
I will say however, that if Vader does become one with the Force, he still has to devote his full power to subdue Sauron for the whole of eternity (Any wavering and Sauron breaks free). So if Anakin succeeds in that, then well done, but this is a tie at best.
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Considering that Vader can tame the Ones and become their master, he has no problem taming Sauron when Vader himself is at his peak. Vader doesn't need to mind-rape or convince Sauron, he'll just keep Sauron under control like the Ones. He doesn't need Sauron's loyalty. Just his service or continued imrpisonment.
But even with the ring, Sauron lost to Isildur. And Isildur is but a man. The books don't even mention Isildur winning because Sauron reached out to him, it just says that Isildur beat him. It's just something known that Sauron sucks at melee combat. The kings whom Sauron defeats are mere men with force of arms with them. Sure the wizards help here and there, but none of Sauron's enemies are even in the same league as Vader, who is practically a messiah-figure for the Force. He's practically created by the Force as an agent of order. His main job is to get rid of disturbances like Sauron and bring balance to the Force. So defeating people like Sauron is not only something he can do, it was something he was born to do, something the cosmic forces of the universe practically made him to do.
Sauron is immortal, but not all-powerful. In the same vein that an undead warrior is immortal, but then his enemies can kill him five ways to Saturday and he still won't be able to defeat them. Vader would just invade Mordor with his armies and then throw the ring down Mount Doom once he's defeated Sauron. Considering the fact that he's already corrupted, nothing Sauron can offer would dissuade Vader. He already has his faith in the Dark Side of the Force, so yes, he'll be able to see the temptations of the Ring for what they are. It takes one to know one. The Muur talisman tried to entrap Vader, but he realized that it was just the soul of a dead Sith trying to lure him into being its new body bag. Perhaps Sauron can corrupt Anakin, but considering Anakin's full power, Anakin would be able to resist, since he would sense Sauron's soul in the Ring and realize any offer of power it gives is a trap.
Yeah, no. If Vader becomes one with the Force, he would easily defeat Sauron. Ring or no, Vader's ascended Spirit would easily trounce Sauron, considering that Sauron is still capable of being hurt or being vulnerable, while souls one with the Force are truly above all means of harm or limits. They're practically one with God, at that point, so even Morgoth would be nothing compared to them, the same way a soul in heaven is above the devil in the divine pecking order. We even have saints who get called "terror of demons" (Saint Joseph) because they can defeat Demons with ease. Vader would be in the same category once he becomes one with the Force.
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I'm quite tired trying to repeat the same points over and over. But I'll go through them again.
1. Sauron cannot be tamed, by no means but seduction, which is practically impossible after Morgoth's fall. So this presumption that Vader can just 'tame' Sauron is incredibly unfounded. Unless you mean forcibly manipulating him like a puppet in chains, then the same principle still applies. Sauron is indeed not all-powerful, but he is eternal and Vader would need to continuously fuel the Force over Sauron's soul indefinitely throughout eternity.
2. Tolkien has established very clearly that while the Ainur spirits are incredibly powerful and nigh-invincible, all their corporeal forms are fragile and vulnerable. But they are needed to properly interact with the world around them. All these gods had to diminish their full potential simply for using them. However, remove this anchor and their literal raw power can burn all of creation many times over. Which is something that almost happened many times in the history of Arda, but beings like Sauron and Morgoth are kept in check by spirits that are in the same league as they. The only time which Sauron has ever been 'injured' was when the creator Eru himself intervened.
3. As I've said once again, no Ainur can be injured or lessened by anything other than themselves or their creator. Their spirits are pure and everlasting. It is only through their own actions (such as splitting your own soul into the material world around you) that they allow themselves to be vulnerable. It doesn't matter what Vader's divine prerogatives are, these guys will always exist no matter what.
You say that if Vader becomes one with the Force, he'll ascend to a plain of godliness, capable of destroying demons such as Sauron or Morgoth. This is amusing considering that Sauron, not to mention Morgoth and fourteen others, are spirits that have aged before creation itself and helped form all of the universe. He is part of a thought from a literal deity which is omnipotent in all cases. The simple fact remains that these two characters, Vader and Sauron are just not in the same league. This is a duel between an all-powerful Messiah (that can't even be all-powerful until he's dead), versus an immortal god that can never die and never be destroyed or injured, except only through his own doing. Which was entirely because of the ring. And that is in a nutshell one of the strongest teachings by Tolkien.
Sauron can only be defeated by himself. Period.
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The Ones are far more powerful than Sauron, considering the most Sauron can do is dominate creation, and the Ones can destroy it entirely. If Vader can tame them, he can tame Sauron. And no, Vader won't need to continuously fuel the Force to keep Sauron in check, because even at his strongest, Sauron is nowhere near the Ones' power, whom Vader can easily keep in check.
And the difference between said spirits and the Ones is that the Ones can destroy the universe at any time. Taking a physical form won't diminish their powers. Unless you use their weapons or they lose their powers to a member of their own species, they're practically invulnerable. You take a sword to Sauron's ring finger and he dies. You take a lightsaber to the Ones and they'll block it and laugh at you.
Except Vader is practically made to hold down and keep such spirits in check-that is his divine prerogative. So no, he can do such things, because the Ones, more powerful than Sauron, can be held down by Vader. Sauron's closer to Palpatine or the Sith Emperor in power, since they can corrupt creation around them and their spirits can persist without a body. Same with the Sith as a whole. But they're nowhere near the power of the Ones, who can practically destroy the universe by merely stepping out of their own house.
The Force itself is beyond the material creation-Yoda even mentions how the Force is above creation and that true Jedi are luminous beings, not crude matter. Vader isn't just a thought from an all-powerful Deity, he's a living agent of order from such a Deity, and unlike Sauron, it really is his job to bring order to the Force and to all life. Granted, he did a weird job of it, wiping out both the Jedi and the Sith and forcing both sides to start from scratch, but that's what he did.
And no, if you met Tolkein, calling Sauron a god is the quickest way to piss him off. The only God in his LOTR realm is Illuvatar, and the most Sauron is would be a lieutenant of the devil. And any sprit one with God can defeat the devil himself and his angels, according to the same Catholic faith Tolkein based Lord of the Rings around on. If Vader becomes one with the Force, ie. one with God, and becomes a space saint, he can defeat both Morgoth and Sauron, just as any Catholic praying to Saints Joseph or Michael can count on them to defeat the Devil in Christ's name.
Both characters have limits in their physical form, but in their spiritual forms, Vader is stronger than Sauron because it's his job to be stronger. Vader would become one with the Froce, while Sauron would just alternate between being strong and weak. In their physical forms, Vader would defeat Sauron easily. So both spiritually and physically, Vader wins.
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Seriously cool pic dude. Love it. As for the actual fight, couldn't say, only know vader from the movies.
But Sauron is a much cooler enemy in my opinion. He was basically unstoppable back in the day too, got rekt in the most pathetic way after everything he'd done.
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Variously titled "0.02 Seconds before Vader is Incinerated".
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I'm so tired of these two being put together. This is not a fair fight.
The pic looks cool, though. Even if Sauron looks pretty tiny there.
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You should make:
Naruto Uzumaki (chakra mode) vs Goku Super sayian Lv 3
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Even though that would look really good visually, it wouldn't be that fair of a fight, Goku would win so easily 
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You pit Vader up against the only version of Sauron he has the smallest chance of winning, besides Sauron in the Third Age. Any other version is just OP. Just holding a conversation with Sauron corrupts a person. He'd probably be able to fully corrupt Vader to the Dark Side more than Sidious ever did.
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That's what happens when you fight a corrupted angelic spirit. He's able to twist your mind in more ways than one.
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Vader would not win this but Sidious would conquer.
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As cool as this is. Vader can't do Force lightning, his mechanical hands prevent him from being able to do so. After he was put in the suit Palpatine had to retrain him so he wouldn't be troubled by his physical limits (such as fast lightsaber moves, Force lightning, agility and stamina).
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He actually can, he uses tutaminis to absorb lighting from foes and can do force push, if the hands were the problem he would no be able to use force in those cases at all. No, the problem is that his central console/life support gets effected (breading, movements, etc.), that's why he doesn't use force lightning. But anyway, I just wanted something that looked cool, that was why I used it...
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Awesome. But there is no way Vader would win this. Not even Palpatine could.
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The amount of detail you put into this blows me away! This is very amazing!
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