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Deemonef β Mass Effect 3 Failures
#jack #meme #masseffect #deemonef #reaper #shepard #subjectzero #masseffect3
Published: 2016-02-10 01:10:56 +0000 UTC; Views: 5880; Favourites: 76; Downloads: 0
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Well... it's been a long time. A very long time.Lot's of work to do since a few months, and no time for renders and arts.
But to show you that I'm still alive here a lil' thing I made for 9Gag.
I know it's no real art and so... but after some Hypes about Mas Effect Andromeda and some talks with other people, some kind of anger about Mass Effect 3 came up in my mind again. So... here some things.
Hope you all are still here and havin' fun. Wish you all the best.
Greatings, Felix.
Mass Effect and its assets belong to Electronic Arts and BioWare
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Comments: 177
Story was a big miss and also another massive failure is no Miranda Lawson as companion!
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This is also soooo damn true
The only... only good thign about Miranda is, that she is the very only companion who really reacts when you broke up with her. To be honest this broke my heart.
Even that she loos the will to survive... hard! ME3's main story is crap. But some side things are good.
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Actually, comparing "dark energy" and "organic-synthetic" plot options over the whole trilogy, it may look like a double turnaround.
And again, "organic-synthetic" might be too shallow, but there are many other themes that correlate (even if ME3 failed to properly link all of that together), often to the point of being different aspects of the same basic issue: biology versus technology, emotions versus logic, selection by trial and error versus predicting and avoiding possible issues, instinct versus technical progress, staying safe within known struggles (limited by instincts and traditions) versus consciously taking responsibility for where the advancement takes you, researching and understanding the unknown versus trying to force it into usual borders (or out of the picture altogether), uniting around charismatic leader (or appealing concept) versus choosing based on individual knowledge, even the question of collective needs versus worthiness of an individual... It's even not just a clear edge, but a spectrum (not always even along the same axis) where you can find those questions everywhere, but especially when rapid advancement or exposure to a culture of different tech level takes place (of course, creation of an AI may be the biggest jump on the scale, but there are quite a few other steps which can end in a total disaster as well)
We get quite a few major plotlines of this kind (self-fulfilling prophecy of Quarian-Geth conflict, Krogans bombing themselves to stone age several times over and then getting even more advanced technology from Salarians, Alliance relations with TuriansΒ starting with plain armed conflict but then evolving into high-tech military cooperation, goals and means of Cerberus, Prothean involvementΒ in development of current cultures, even all the people plainly refusing to believe in Reapers) explored from multiple pints of view all the way across the trilogy.
And the higher level of tech involved, the less obvious and more impactful even small decisions of this kind become. In this sense, the final decision involving all the Reaper tech and affecting the entire Galaxy is quite a powerful culmination (but also way bigger decision than most of us would be ready for). The choice between burning most of high tech stuff (let's be honest - if it fully eradicates Geth, it will do the same to any VI-grade hardware and most high precision tools) setting the civilization decades (in the sense or recent Alliance history - for other species it may be like centuries) back and making everyone extremely cautious of high tech for decades if not centuries to come; or taking control of what can be used to help with repairing damage already dealt, give people ultra-advanced technology (slowly and carefully!)Β and protect them in case somebody tries to dangerously misuse such tech (yeah, I know, first of all try not to do that yourself - or all of this will be turned the other way around - another huge risk added) - way too big a decision, way too much on risk-reward scale, but... failing to make the decision is the worst decision you can make. If these themes were properly linked to this decision, it would feel great (instead, they managed to do everything for organic-synthetic problem to feel like a thing of its own, while presenting the destroy-control fully in the light of Alliance-Cerberus conflict. good job, damn. And synthesis - they most likely wanted it to be going even further and taking the best of both, but failed to write it properly. I'm not taking that without proper explanation, especially when the closest kind of tech encountered so far is the nanotechnology that makes husks).
But that's just common theme. What's more of a proof is that Sovereign is rather consisted with the explanation for the Reapers in ME3. His speech goes along the lines of "You are the mistake and the problem; we are the solution, but you can't comprehend that since you are the problem... and don't you dare calling us a part of the problem, we are above that." Catalyst basically talks along the same lines, never really admitting their own part in the problem, even if suspecting that the solution may be somewhat suboptimal.
In this aspect it turns out that ME3 is rather consistent with ME1, but definitely throws away some plotlines that appear in ME2 (and they went too far with that, throwing away or changing many things that could be easily integrated even with significant change of base concept).
The reports of dark energy anomalies in ME2 - there are many ways to play this out. Like what about eezo content in that destabilized star? And where do relays and Repers get their power from? And if they cared about giving proper explanation for Crucible... If you get a specifically designed eezo cores sucking power out of nowhere, there must be somewhere this power gets leaked from, and the core of a star with higher eezo content is quite a possibility. There is plenty of options to play this out without dropping the theme completely and pretending it never happened.Β Β
Of course, it still leaves the plothole of why the hell Collectors rushed creation of new Reaper if their main force was to arrive in a few months anyway.
As for all the theory about dark energy being the rel enemy - we really don't have enough data to assess how would it play out (and it doesn't sound much better than the base concept of the actual ending if you strip that down to the same level of rumor). It's difficult to tell how exactly would it go and what was the real reason for dropping that concept (maybe they did write themselves into corner? Especially, if the problem gets escalated by use of mass effect technologies - why would Reapers build the relays and facilitate their use then???)
The concept of the actual ending is not that bad, it's just the way they wrote it. Seriously?Β Β You just don't rush such things if they are this big.
Fun thing: ME2 really makes the feeling of spending years on reworking everything, ME3 sometimes feels like being thrown together while locked up somewhere and completed already under attack. Β
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You know what, this is one of the most interesting and best comments I ever read
You are right, maybe both endings are not "fully finished"
I barley cannot say anything above the facts in the upper third of you comment.
As for the reapers and the dark energy. The creatures/peoples/whoever who created the mass relais and ftl didn#t know before building that this will spread dark energy in a fast way. but as you said, a lack of infos about Eezo and stuff. So... we will never know
And you last fact... well this is more than more than true
ME3 really seems unfinished and... thrown to the fans...
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You know that EAware (face it, Bioware is name only now) done goofed, when fans are still pissed 4 years after ME3 launched.
Nice work by the way.
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1) Yeah, Williams is pretty much just a crap character overall. You could make the argument that body armor hides the bust, but even putting aside design there's just nothing compelling about her. She's an annoying racist in ME1. She's a mistrustful jerk in ME2. And then she outright shit talks Shep in ME3 when by that point you've saved the galaxy and her life specifically several times.Β
2) I honestly don't know how she even pulled this. I actually like it because it was a nice character arc, but it doesn't hold up under any scrutiny.
I mean damn, Shepard and Jeff would have to pull some fuckin' strings. Maybe could make the excuse that she was specifically requested by David or the Alliance just wanted a reason to study her brain and amps without a huge security risk. Β Β
3-4) The novels are trash and Bioware is trash for including auxiliary material characters. VEGA ESPECIALLY.Β
And the rest is just Bioware being shitty and lazy writers.Β
I'm pretty pleased that Andromeda is purging the old ME story. It will be remembered as mostly good, but there's no salvaging that last bit.Β
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I have to say I liked the novels... except for no. 4. This was reayl crap.
The stories in the other were cool. And I know they ar not canon. But when you take characters from those books, than plaese put them in the right way in the game... not as in ME3
Vega... I don'tlike him, and the movie Paragon Lost was.. not good. WOuld not say it was carp, but it was not good...
Hey, I like Jack, really I like her character, and I really tried to find out how she became a teacher... but I never found a reason. really, if I take everything she did in ME2 and before, I cannot see how she made it. Even if Shep and othe rpeople pull strings for her... she is a psycopathic murderer... I see no story where she became a teacher
I really, reeeeeeally hope MEA will ignore ME3. DUnno how the will do with the ends... and so on. I don't want cameos.... I just want a new start. I loved ME1 and when it will be like this, I'm more than okay with it
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I disagree with a few.
Specially considering that many novels might not be canon themselves or modify what we know already from the games.
This is the reason that Disney ditched the 'expanded universe' of Star Wars. A lot of crap contradicted another group of "canon" or "semi canon" comics and novels.
As for the citadel attack...
Thanks to the #2 destruction (the collectors). The reapers focused MORE on anihilating the humans first.
They arrived first to Batarian space because Shepard had destroyed the First Relay.
Also, according to the war (fall of earth) they did exactly what Vigil said.. they cut down all communication as they destroyed fleets, satellites, buoys or any means of communication other than quantum based coms.
also, on the mass effect 2.. nope.. you're wrong here imho. They started to make the experiments, because they were surprised how humans could adapt. (I mean, they destroyed a Sovereing class dreadnought thanks to shepard!)
Hence why they killed shepard and tried to capture his remains. They wanted the prime thing that could endanger the Reapers and make something akin of a human reaper as end game.
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I know that some books are no canon. They are facts taht can be used, or don't have to be used.
But there are some facts, and it makes me angry, that those facts are totally ignored.
They use people from the books, but change them. Why? The already exist, why cahnge so many things. This is the thing I hate.
I know what you mean with "Humans first" and so. But the fact is: If the Reapers had fly to the citadel right after Kar'Shan they had won this war. The attack oin Kar'Shan was an event nobody recognized. So: Kar'Shan done, to the Citadel, kill all the people and fleet there, load every data of every species and worlds and... done!
Alle the people who were afraid of the reapers flied to the citadel. The came out of the mass relay to get to the citadel, but the reapers are there and kill everybody who came through this relay.
After the citadel is taken, the reapers can head for every homeworld, without leaving the people of the galaxy a palce where they are save and makin plans:
Imagine the scene:
Liara: We have to leave the Sol system. The Citadel is our best option!
Shep: The Citadel is already taken by the Reapers!
Liara: Oh... and now?
...and the player have no chance to win
No, sorry to say, but you are wrong. The main writer till ME2 Drew Karpyshyn had a other story in mind. There the reapers are not the enemy, they are searching for a solution for the real enemy: The dark matter and it's fast spreading.
They found out in ME2 that the humans are the solution. A reaper made of humans could control dark energy. This is why we see a human reaper at the end of ME2.
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No offence, but I have no idea where the hell you got this "dark matter" thing, but I played the game so many times.. all 3 with all dlcs and I have yet to see any "dark matter" thing.. EVER.. specially related to the human reaper.
The reapers were always doing a "cycle" of destruction, this information is clear since the middle of the first game (Virmire, when its clear that Saren is not the real threat, but SOVEREING).
Also your strategy still makes no sense and seems you're confusing what information the reapers had.
To resume.. by Mass Effect 3 start of events..:
They first wiped the batarians, which where in the way. Then they attacked the humans bypassing most of the defenses and went for the kill game.. aka Earth. Even the wikis have the dates of each event.
Until they had pretty much owned Earth, THEN they went for the Turians and other races.
Because they were the bigger treats(humans first for their growing military and adaptability, then turians for their military).. not the citadel.
By Mass effect 3...The citadel had no real interest to the reapers , since it no longer worked as a mass relay to "call" the reapers... and their plan B was wiped too (the first relay in batarian space)
AND UNTIL the Illusive man informed them of the Crucible (he was pretty indoctrinated at this point).. the Citadel was no real target.
Anyway, the point is. If game is canon, books might or not might be.
That is the rule for games, specially since a lot of autors are just "fans" or were ordered to write them.
Also, I read most official comics related to Mass Effect, not a single mention of your "dark matter".Β So you're baffling me here with your claim.
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The thing with dark energy/matter, was mentiond in the Heastrom quest, by Gianan Parasini on Illiumand by Kal'Reegar. It was optional, but the publishers want to make hints.
Tali told us that the sun of Heastrom got old to fast, and this is a matter of dark matter (ha... nice pun)
Drew Karpyshyn said in an interview that the story about dark energy was his inetntion. But after he left/he was forced to go/ or whatever, they changed this topic.
And the informations we get from ME1 are true, but the Sovereign also said, that our mind is not ready to understand their real intentions.
As I said, a circle is 50.000 cause in that time, people learn to fly ftl, and by using this and the mass relais, they fasten up the pread of dark energy. When the reapers find no solution for the dark energy problem, they end the circle. In the following years the fast spread of dark energy will be slowed down, cause nobody use the mass relais and ftl flights.
This is why the do the circles.
In "our" circle, they found out, that the humans the solution. This is why they tried to built a human reaper.
As the habinger said "Solution through destruction", and he meant only the destruction of the humans can the the universe from the fast spread of dark energy.
And again, I know what you mean. It makes sense, and you are right. But it is for sure, for absolutly sure, that, when the reapers took over the citadel, the people of the galaxy ahd a much harder fight... or loose immedatly.
As I said before. Kar'Shan's end was not mentioned. The fly right to the citadel. Take it over and "then", earth, palaven, thessia. The reapers have a great number, so this is no problem. Before the galaxy knw what happend, the citadel is alrady under control.
SO, all the things "meet with the council", make planes, meeting the asari councler, the turian counler,would never happend.
...and the thing with TIM is. I really hate it how dumb the reapers were made in ME3. They only find out after TIM said it? What a bunch of crap.
If the books are not canon, then the comics and movies are also not canon. I see it this way, taht those are additinal information. But if you use them, use them right.
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I thought the whole thing of the sun was actually another way to destroy life and gather power by the reapers (aka affecting suns, forcing all "living" organisms to flee).
I was actually imagining the reapers using the suns as a weapon if the invasion failed.
But then, the area was pretty much enclosed for thanks to the Geth and the Veil. No real effects on the galaxy as a whole other than being a "mystery" .
I wonder if Andromeda will retake the point of the suns aging too fast, but I doubt it.Β
Anyway, If he left, I suppose his story simply took a secondary role with no importance to the end.
Reminds me.. there was a big "walk out" of developers from Bioware. I hope it doesn't affect Mass Effect Andromeda.
As for the Citadel, I think it was obvious, check my points:
A) Reapers no longer have remote control of the citadel
B) The fleets of the Citadel were parked and in full alert (including the Destiny Ascension, the surprise jump by Sovereing in the first game could not happen again that easily)
C) The reapers relied on the indoctrination to affect the Citadel (see assassination attempt and coup'd etat attempt by Udina and Illusive man's forces, which failed thanks to Shepard and Thane Krios, or in the alternate route... Kirrahe)
D) The citadel's jump was no longer required to spread or stage a surprise attack, the reapers launched direct attacks to each advanced race'sΒ using the Batarian relays.
As for the reapers, I agree with you.. they put generic designs on them all instead of the variety design they had before. It made more sense to be different after Mass Effect 2's human reaper and the supposed processing of tons of races.
As for books.. It depends honestly. There are many "self published with permission" novels, They do not make themselves canon.
They count like, more detailed fanfics imho.
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Maybe Mac Walters and co were too (sorry for the words) dumb for the dark matter storyline and made a own... easy one.
But... as much I talk about it, I will never change it... sadly.
But (last time I swear 
I hope, really hope MEa will be good. I hope they will ignore the story of ME3 in a great way... or compeltely. And I really wish for not a sinhel cameo
With the citadel I bet we won't come to a point where we two agree 
For the booky, you have to know the first 3 novels are wrote by Drew Karpyshyn. And he "invented" the story of ME. He was the lead writer for the story of ME1 and ME2, so I see the first 3 novels as good as canon can be
Fourth novel... will not talk about this ...crappy thing
And the Comics... I don't really like them. They are all by Mac Walters, and I was shocked after I heard, that this guy became lead writer of ME3
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Considering how weak the Mass Effect 3 ending was (almost like they had to force a closure at all costs).. I agree with you, there were tons of ways that were missing.
Some paths that lead to nowhere.
some messages that could branch a lot, with nothing in the last game (like the supposed "finding" of the friendly ship that was full of friendly AI, and how a leader AI switched places with a salarian scientist as a way to share and trade places)
and I understand, lets agree to disagree on the Citadel.
As for the books, the first books were of the Anderson/Saren storyline if I remember correctly, right?
And the first contact war.
I remember the comic of the illusive man FUCKED UP a lot of what was considered canon.. so bad that many say this comic/novel is trash.
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Damn you are right. Those loose ends never found a great story.
And otherwise, some loose ends found a ... fucked up end.
I remember how kal'reegar died via E-Mail or Emily Wong died via Twitter... those things made me angry
Yepp.The first one was the story of Anderson, Saren and Kahlee Sanders.
The books all played after the first contact war.
Novel 2 takes place after the ME2 prolouge and the same counts for novel 3.
You are so right. This comic was... bad. The Foundation comcis are so bad, they really make me angry every time I think about 'em.
The comic Redemption was one of the worst for me. Cause it destroyed Liara for me. I really love her in ME1. And this comic... FUCKED her up so hard it really drives me range... and it became canon...
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I think it's totally stupid to put major plot twists in comics and not even properly explain them in the games. Especially since the comics weren'tΒ that good (I've seen only a few of them, and wasn't impressed enough to look for the others)
As for Liara in ME2, if you dig deeper (well, that's not that easy with her introverted personality), this is rather believable, but this is the side of Liara you don't want to get on. Over her head in all the mess, completely burned out , still trying to look way more intimidating than she really is, blaming herself for something that went messy. Yeah, she is the kind of person who can suppress the emotions (still, it's more of delaying not completely blocking) and switch to pure cold logic if there's something that has to be done no matter what (compare this to to the encounter with Benezia - there were strong feelings involved, but Liara really did her best to not lose it in the middle of the battlefield). But getting stuck in this mode for two years - that's a nightmare. And she almost loses it a few times, but still keeps steady until her mission is done - and only then she drops the barriers and we get back the Liara we knew (just very exhausted and somewhat confused).
As strange as it may sound to many people, this perfectly matches together, but it's very difficult to fully understand what's going on with her (and it requires giving her very much of a second chance). I know how this "full logic focus" mode works (it's really useful when studying science, especially when you have to put something big together, but prolonged use may cause severe burnout) and I can vouch that in ME2 this was really good written, but it still took me quite some time to understand the complete picture (but once I got what she really did to herself, I realized that I love her even more).
But that comic was... just the fragments of the story mentioned in ME2 sound much better than the way it got actually played out in the comic - I don't remember it all that well, but Liara didn't really act like herself there at all. Same with Feron - the way they played him out it's difficult to feel sorry for him. I totally believe that Liara would feel responsible for losing the only ally she had got when she lost everybody close to her, but this way he didn't even seem as a proper ally (it looked more like the question of whom will he betray next).
Looks like another not that bad concept that required very careful implementation, but got completely messed up by bad writing.
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IKR? You are not "allowed" to put such important facts in a comic/novel
You have a pint, and I think you like Liara and many of the points are great and I love how deep you are in this matter.
But... I hate me for this, but I... can't forgive Liara what she did in the Redemption comic. Yeah you said it, the comic should be "not this canon" but... it happend, I read it and it is in my brain and it destoyed Liara for me. It was that bad. That I played my ME1 savegames wehre Liara was my LI sooooo damn late, thet the last DLCs nearly came out.
I was... shocked and angry. And yeah, you described her feelings well... but this all matters only if the comic happens. And in this comic Liara is soooo "not-ME1"... and this comic plays a very short while after ME1... such a big twist of personality... and this fucked up descision of Liara. I so wish, I didn't read that comic
RIght again... bad writing...
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Yeah, sometimes it's really incredible how they manage to have amazing writing in some places and terrible writing in others. Come on, if you already put this much effort in the universe, put a bit more to not make it complete mess.
It all looks like they took the core of a very important plotline and gave it to people who had not much idea of how to implement it. Of course, she must have been totally emotionally devastated with everything going to hell like that, but she still would act about the same way she acts in ME2 (maybe just less confident). Instead, in the comic she acts like maybe one of those commandos would act (and Liara is much different from that, even if she manages to be almost as deadly on the battlefield - she does it in her own way).
The problem with Liara is not only the depth of her character but also the fact she really prefers not to show too much of it even in private (and she's totally OK with people not even trying to understand her, as long as they don't try to actively interfere).Β In the result, she's really difficult to properly show in the way that the different aspects of her personality would come together (and even with enough data she's still difficult to understand). That comic was supposed to explain WTF happened to her so that she turned out like that - but it really messes up even more than it explains. Maybe the real canon is what's mentioned in ME2 and this mess is just the failed attempt to fill in the blanks. Heh, doing more damage than what it was supposed to explain - great workΒ Β
I can say that both Liara and Mordin are extremely well written in the games (well, with the people capable of creating such a detailed sci-fi universe, it's no wonder they can properly write such characters). On the other hand I can't say the same for Illusive man - in ME2 all we see of him is way too filtered by himself (and he does hist best to cover all the mess Cerberus creates), but he makes the impression of quite a mastermind; then in ME3 he suddenly is completely messed up and self-contradictory. It's probably what some forms of indoctrination are about - locking thought patterns so that it results in tons of terrible mistakes even when the actions are taken against Reapers - but come on, how terribly did it have to backfire for such result this quickly!? Cerberus is known for messing up in many of their projects, but not to this extent. And again, no proper explanation, just more mess with them than with the Reapers.
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I think the main problem is Mac Walters. He replaced Drew Karpyshyn and all of his ideas. Dunno if he hated Drew, or if he was to "dumB" for his storytelling, but he changced so much.
On Top, Mac Walters was the chief writer for all the comics. And we know the the stories of the comics mainly sucked!
Next point Mac Walters seems to me like a total Cerberus-fetishist. He was the one with the idea to change Cerberus completly. If you remember, the jump from ME1 to ME2 Cerberus was...immense!!! Okay, ME2 was still a good game. But the jump was heavy.
Mac was one of the people who destroyed ME3. With his ideas and story... dunno what I have to think about it
He was the one who made this retarted Liara story in redemption, and this idea that she gave away Sheps body to Cerberus...
He... says things in his own comics, and says another thing in his "own" game...
He made the plot in ME3. Chnaged Cerberus and TIM so much...
You are right, where is this man of ME2? What the hell is wrong with TIM in ME3?
...just can say: Why mac Walters? why?
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Yeah, the amount of overhaul between ME1 and ME2 was a bit too much, but they at least did everything to make it consistent, even if some aspects went a bit too far and still felt wrong. Both with changes and with shoving some big things under the carpet (they really managed to dismiss everything about Sovereign?! Good job, Council)
Speaking of what happened to the original crew, Shepard is the worst kind of inspiration. Tali getting wrong kind of promotion (and just losing her squad twice in a row. Don't they have any more appropriate job for her?), Garrus uniting all the scum on Omega against himself (an enterprise worthy of a Spectre...), Liara getting way over her head in infobusiness (at least she didn't need a rescue from a grave danger, quite the opposite) - it's not a good inspiration if it gets you into the trouble you actually need real Shepard to get out.
And Cerberus - there's nothing much to love about it when you are clearly being used blindly, while TIM and Miranda are doing everything to dismiss their former deeds (Miranda seems not that bad... when she's not giving another portion of Cerberus propaganda - when she is I start thinking about the airlock). And they obviously never second-guess the necessity for some of their experiments or the required precautions - with both unnecessarily immoral and disastrously backfiring experiments all around (and everybody knows this reputation, so I seriously wanted to replace Cerberus logo on the ship with N7).Β But even with all of that there's something that feels right, something about actually getting cutting-edge research done without stupid bureaucracy (but that still never justifies being this reckless with this kind of tech). With all of that as much as I hated some aspects, I never really wanted to destroy them, however I was thinking of doing a takeover and replacing TIM with Mordin - he would put those resources to proper use.
Then in ME3 Cerberus makes no more sense than Liara in Redemption. Acting as stupidly and self-contradictory as if completely indoctrinated, yet completing some bigger projects that would never reach such stage in this state. And their main project boiling to "Look! We have proof on concept! We managed to influence some husks - we can control the Reapers!" Come on, those are mindless husks, how this is supposed to affect anything with proper mind? They would rather die of laughter (if they had any sense of humor). This is as stupid as the explanation for Crucible, which really makes Catalyst sound completely reasonably (aside for the choice of form).
I don't know what kind of Cerberus fetish this is, but apparently, having a fetish doesn't mean the ability to properly write such things. Like at all.
It's like the people who wrote ME3 payed too much attention (with varying level of success) to psychology (at least in some parts the do give plenty of insight in different conflicts), but completely butchered most of the high-tech stuff. And one of the biggest charms charms of the series was exactly the combination of both these aspects highly detailed and intertwined,
And what I never understood about ME3 at all is that damn child. Virmire, destruction of SR1, Collector base, Tuchanka, Citadel,Β Rannoch - there are plenty of losses or potential losses of the people you would really care about (all we get for that are a few voices in a dream and a brief conversation with Liara with very limited options). Traumatic backstory options, images from Prothean beacons, a few Reaper artifacts and facing several Reapers directly. Death and destruction everywhere with fleets obliterated, planets burned and billions killed. Plenty of stuff to induce nightmares even in a seasoned soldier, and yet it all is suddenly about some random kid you've barely seen.
There was plenty of opportunity to tie the nightmares with previous experiences and personality options. For example, connecting the raid on Mindoir with Reapers (and especially cannibals) dropping on Earth for colonist backstory, or destruction of SR1 overlapping with all the ships and stations destroyedΒ for a spacer (not sure about earthborn, but Reapers landing on Earth would provide plenty of material).
Or what about something like "everything crumbling to dust, everyone fading away, and suddenly you are 1 on 1 with Harbinger"? Yeah, pretty prophetic, but there's enough material for such a nightmare to form.
And that hologram on the Citadel? Come on, Harbinger, or whatever you prefer, I know that you are at least part of this collective consciousness, show your proper form! Or at least find something more original than stealing a random image from a stupid dream! BTW, the Leviathan did a good job messing with images. What if Catalyst tried to emulate Liara, Tali, Mordin and/or Legion? (pretty good choices for this kind of talk... and effective way of messing with Shepard's emotions)
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The thing with Shep as a bad inspiration is a real good point. never thought about that
And yes!!! I so wanted to take my NZ sign off too. It felt wrong...
The "godchild" "starchild"... this was the crap above all!!!! Why this kid? Why? Bioware never told us, why the Catalyst looked like this kid.
They said "It was a symbol of the loss of earth for shepard"... but as you said. I felt not a single quantum of anger/sadness for this kiddo.
Kaidan/Ashley were much more intense. Mordin... so many possible eople... but that???
And as you said. Why the lack of Harbinger? he was "THE" enemy... and... why ME3? why?
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Catalyst stealing the image that haunts Shepard probably isn't that bad of an idea, but the story behind this particular image makes not much sense. Bilions of deaths all over the galaxy is statistics, but witnessing death of a single child is suddenly supposed to overload all the instincts?! It shouldn't really work like this at such scale, especially not for officers at this level. Exactly the same problem as with Feron - why is anybody ever supposed to care this much about that? At least not in the way it got presented.
My thoughts when leaving Earth went along these lines: "So, they first lock me up and dismiss everything, but now I'm supposed to save them!? And what can even be done about all of this? Sovereign wasn't exaggerating as much as we could hope for... Ashley, stop getting on my nerves, damnit! Better say where those morons put all my fancy stuff! Am I supposed to fight all of this with this basic gun!? And where did the team scatter again? What, Liara dug something up on Mars? At least some good news! Maybe she can explain WTF did I miss."
A child? What child? We just lost entire planet, why am I even supposed to notice some random child!?
To be honest, the entire series steps into the pitfall of making aliens seem much more appealing than humanity. Just because the aliens acknowledge the differences and at least try to explain and ask questions instead of demanding and making some stupid assumptions. While with humanity you are just supposed to care and understand because you are one of them. Thanks, I think I've had enough of this mess. And with the fall of Earth they went way over the roof in this extent. Especially, when you then spend the entire game convincing everybody that it's not about Earth or Palaven or whatever planet you are currently on - it's about the entire Galaxy and being picked one by one will never make it any better.
And given how much Harbinger was obsessed with Shepard in ME2, it's really wrong that they stopped bothering at all. Up until the point you plug Crucible in. Catalyst itself isn't half as bad as all the mess directly leading to this encounter
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Ha! This is also a good point!!!! All the stuff I collected in ME2 is gone. Good guy Alliance, took all of Shepards stuff and... what? Throw it away?
"Start picking up new weapons and gear... not our problem" or buy the stuff you already had in shops for a shitload of credits"
I hate this fact! Yeah, if it is about "one" person than egosim is okay. but the aliens? "Earth's not our problem" And I hate the asari the most. Don't want to help, don#t come to a deal with krogans, turians and salarians... but they start to cry and beg for help when the homeworld is under attack... I wished I had the option to punch the asari conclour in the face and say: "Nope! will not help you!"
True!! harbinger is a freaking "cyborg" and acts like a human. "Shepard? Nah.... not this time. Don't like the guy. My retarded catalyst son can deal with it!"
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Well, the Alliance officials on Earth weren't much better. No matter the planet, politicians don't really change. And the council doesn't seem to that much real authority. But that doesn't excuse playing stupid political games (I really was about to recommend the Dalatrass to invite Harbinger for her shit-talk) or plainly wasting precious time when everything is burning. But it seems that anybody starts really doing anything only after their homeworld is invaded.
And the strangest thing about asari - they seem so much better individually than as a nation. Maybe that's the result of the Republics being run by matriarchs. Sometimes it feels that they think of themselves as the only real adults out there (actually, Aethyta mentioned that they don't want to listen even to her ideas, no wonder they would never listen to somebody like Liara). And when they can't produce "adult" solutions, they prefer to just step aside and let the others handle that. Did they seriously tried to await all the mess hoping that it will end before Reapers reach Thessia? Maybe that could have even happened, if they were providing whatever assistance they can from the start.
On the other hand, the military negotiations start basically along the lines of "we need you to send all your forces to our planets." No wonder the first reaction is "we are not going to waste our forces throwing them against what has just chewed through yours." Actual questions of coordinating supply lines and evacuation, as well as building the Crucible appear only after such exchange.
No wonder only Wrex agreed to send his armies just like that. for quite a price.
And it starts right at the start when Anderson asks to go and bring turian fleets. Do you not realize the scale of the problem or are you lying to yourself!? If they sliced through half of Alliance Navy just like that, all the warships in the galaxy would likely lose against such a force! And then we get news that they are assaulting Palaven with probably even bigger force than on Earth.
You just don't start negotiations by demanding to send all the forces when dealing with such enemy.
And after all that happened, Harbinger didn't even call! Come on, with those calls from Earth it could have actually been a great possibility for him to hack into the line once or twice.
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F**ck! That's so true again!!!
Yeah you are so right: We have a problem, call another one with the same problem to solve our problem..."
This is very weird stuff. And makes no sense.
All the storyline in ME3 sounds really uncreative and lazy. Unfinished...
Asari... I started to really dislike them after while ME3. As you said, they act like the holy grail of galactic people... and do many shit... 
As as for Harbinge, you are so right!!! And let's think about he really know a thing about what happens in the galaxy. Why do he send the Citadel to earth, the place, where all fleet come to fight the reapers...
And I only can say it again. The end ahd to be a "plan" by the reapers to win Shepard, or it is only a big fuck up.
I mean, look at the quest. Here is the base in London anda straaaaaaaaight way ot the citadel beam.
I really, really thought this was like an electric insect trap. "Come people o the galaxy to that shiny beam... it's no trap!"
And what... it was no trap of the reapers, it was a lazy idea by Bioware... what?!
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Maybe the only people who really understand the strategic part of this war (that is about saving as much as possible,Β winning time and building the superweapon) are Hackett (but why not to contact military leaders directly and explain the situation to them, instead of sending Shepard to argue with politicians?) and Victus (he gets straight to the point right away - turians will never surrender their homeworld, but the fleets can't do much in space around Palaven, so we need ground reinforcements and then our fleets will be able to provide assistance in your operations), but the way the negotiations go no wonder that everybody else falls either "yes, nobody can solve this alone, so we'll provide assistance (if you help us with our problems) and let's hope you really know what you're doing" or "we don't see how is it supposed to work, so we'll better live a bit longer by staying out of that for now" categories.
Asari... you can easily achieve understanding with Thessians, but you just can't deal with Thessia. Heh, even their councilor dares to speak for herself couple times - which only reveals that she's just a spokesperson with no real authority over her people at all. Well, they probably were the ones who forced peaceful resolution of the First Contact War, but at anything more than that they are pretty much useless (while pretending to be above it).
Also note that (at least in the languages that have different terms for this) words "smart" and "wise" are practically mutually exclusive. Even old scientist or general may be called "genius" but almost never "wise". That's all one should know about wisdom of 1000-year-old matriarchs and how much it's worth.
With Citadel at Earth and that teleporter in London all the explanation we get is that they are finishing the harvest. Which should probably mean transporting "materials" to Citadel to build a reaper (and yet we find no actual signs of construction taking place there). But then it raises even more questions: Why didn't they take the Citadel earlier if they still needed it? Why do they suddenly finish the harvest exactly when they realize that the Citadel may be used against them? How did it all happen while we were running around Cerberus base? And what happened to all the people on the Citadel? And what about Citadel Fleet? Destiny Ascension seems surprisingly alright in the cutscene.
The amount of rushed lazy writing (some of the very end could have been not that bad, but it seems that they didn't have much idea how to arrange it so that it leads to there) is... for actual ending sequence of such series it's almost unforgivable (however some nonsensical stuff along the way kinda softens this crash at the end...Β yeah, damn good job). Did they really rush it that much just for a fancy release date?!
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To be fair, though, Kal'Reegar couldn't really have a big role, as his voice actor, Adam Baldwin, was no longer available after Mass Effect 2, so they couldn't really do anything else with his character. At least he died heroically, saving the turians' communications from getting messed up.
That's also why Morinth got a reduced role: her voice actress was no longer available to record lines after Mass Effect 2.
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Maybe you know I am a giant morinth fan. And I hated this fact. Yeah maybe the voice actors are... gone. But...
Okay, I'm from germany and there it is "normal" that the voice actors change.
...So, I don't like it. And Morinth could have a greta role... insteat of this crappy "cameo" at the end.
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Hey Mr. Deemonef. It's been long time.
After seen this I'm kinda scared to play ME3. After reading so many fanfics of ME I just don't want to start hating it if I play it.
But anyways.... Good to see you again...
Btw.... what happened with your JackXMiri fanfic???. I'm dying to know what's next....
See ya.
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Well If I could choose... I would love the destroy the memeories on ME3 in a main way... but Citadel dlc was quite cool
ME1 and ME2 are amazing, so play those games, and it's okay
Jack and Miri will go on... if I find a traslator
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Well, I guess that I'll have to suck it up if I don't like the ending.... Thank you for your POV. Hope you can find a translator.... I'm just dying to finish reading your fanfic.
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So many good points.
I used to be so into Mass Effect, but went right back to Naruto after that ending. I also had the sheer misfortune of pre-ordering the special Mass Effect copy, was it called the Collectors Edition? I think it was. Biggest mistake and lesson learned. I am sure there's more bad things besides the things you listed but there are some glaring plot holes and inconsistencies. The ending just vastly overshadowed things.
Naruto itself is not free of plot holes and stuff. Though Part 1 held together, Part 2...it's non-canon in my book for the most part, though I'll use characters, locations, and some of the concepts and suchlike in my re-write Naruto AU.
Oh, and I imagine some are still fighting and trying to get the Mass Effect 3 endings changed even after nearly four hundred years...er I mean nearly four years.
Me? Moved on. Mass Effect 3 will just remain as a game I played that was badly rushed leading to it being badly made.
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True words and thanks for the comment
I also made the mistake of pre-ordering the collectors edition.... mistake
There are a lot more bad things about ME3... but I startet out with 10
Yeah, there are still people who fight for it. I'm one of those too... and fight for a new 4th novel
me, too. So bad memroies about ME3... it is... harsh and bad
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You are welcome.
That stinks.
True, and that's understandable. There's likely enough to fill up many lists of 10 I would think. Maybe one could do them in parts...?
That is understandable, won't say anything negative about that fact. After all, I am not one of those kinds of jerks that would do that.
Indeed, its harsh and bad...
(Going on vacation tomorrow, Monday 15th to Florida, to visit my grandma and grandpa. Will be back on the 24th . Will be having fun.
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I wish you a damn fine time, my friend
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Interesting list. And what a great starting point for arguments.
Some of your issues I agree with, others I don't:
Ash - They sure did pretty her up. But then again, they did that with almost everybody. I suspect they just wanted to show off their shiny new tools and how more realistic everything was compared to the previous games. Rapid promotion in times of war is not uncommon.
Jack - I don't see that as something that's completely implausible. Jack seemed like somebody searching for a purpose, and voila, there is one. I think she was also uneasy about what happened to the other children on Pragia, otherwise she wouldn't have kept telling herself that she had it worst and that justified everything.
Omega - my understanding was that they were just storing a eezo on Omega, not mining it. The asteroids around Omega probably still have plenty to be extracted.
Reapers - They really do look different at the end of ME2? I completely missed that.
Dark Energy - Huh? Where does that come from? That one sun going crazy surely was sabotage, not a natural phenomenon. The Reapers were always portrayed as destroyers - they did wipe out the Protheans and those before them - so I cannot follow you on this one at all.
Citadel - Oh come on, that one is obvious! The Citadel/Master Relay was sabotaged, so the Reapers couldn't pull their usual trick and come out of it and strike a crippling first blow. Thus it lost all strategic importance since they had to methodically comb the galaxy from one end to the other anyway, and there was no need to attack it. The organics didn't stand a chance regardless, so why bother?
Mars - Just because something is deciphered - likely by computer - doesn't mean it's been completely researched and understood. It's like the Human Genome project.
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I was sure, that there will be lot of discussions about it
Ashley: I see your point, and it makes sense in the way of graphics and so on. But It don't help the character to change it onyl cause you can do it. Miranda was in ME2 (much too) pretty too. You had the tools there too, but Ash looks still like a great soldier. And I know, it is good, cause sex sells... but I don't like the fact that they cnaged her only for those reasons.
Jack: jack is a murderer. A jailbreaker and seareched on many worlds for bounty. Yeah, she don#t want what happend on Pragia again and so. Search for her place and so. But I can't see that a murderer become a teacher. Which parents would aprove that?
Omega: In the bad Omega DLC you see directly that they mine out Eezo. It's not brought from other places. And on the canon and code they naver talked about, that there is Eezo on other astreroids I this system.
Reapers: Yeh, the really looked. And some people extrated some models of the ME2 reapers... all different.
Dark Energy: This was the first story for ME3. In ME2 there are a lot of hints about it (Haestrom, police on Illium). Drew said in an interview, that the story in ME3 is about the real enemy. Dark energy. It makes sun die eraly and the universe expand to fast. The reapers are there to find a solution for it. And they found it in the human genes. That's why the built a human Reaper at the end of ME2. Only a reaper made of human genes can stop the dark energy from spreading. Shepards mission is a.) help the reapers and make the galaxy beleive that they are "friends" b.) fight the reaper. Win and peace... for a while but the dark energy will destroy the universe. or loose.
That was the idea for ME3.
Citadel: Why does eerybody think I'm talkng abot the Citadel-Relay?
The Citadel is a place for all the people to serach safty, make plans and so on. The reapers would be much more intelligent after taking over Kar'Shan (which was not noticed wil eratch was assoulted) they fly to the Citadel. Kill verybody there. load up datas about everything happend in the galaxy. deactivae some mass realy, and after that heading for the homeworlds.
Without the Citadel the people of the galaxy can not regroup, can not make plans... and so on.
Imagine the scene on the Normandy after Mars:
Liara: "We have to leave the sol system. The citadel is our best chance"
Shep: "The Citadel is already taken by the reapers."
Liara: "Oh... and now?"
Shep: "guess we are fucked!"
Mars: It#s the fact, that they changed the whole story as I said, and EA needed a way to kill reapers very fast. And so they changed this fact. Yeah. maybe you are a bit right. But what a funny fact that THIS last info tells us all about the reapers and a way to destroy them. Ad if you are a prothean. You would made this information very easy to read and decypher... and not hide it as best as possible...
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Well, the parents don't have to know about Jack's past. It's classified.
If what you write about "dark energy" is true, then I am glad they changed it. It seems that dark energy/matter makes up most of the universe, so to have a natural phenomenon like that as an enemy, I don't think that would have worked; it's like pretending to fight gravity. That any DNA should be able to counteract it is just as ludicrous. But maybe this is a case of newer science ruining a plot based on older science.
It might have been a cool twist, however, if the Reapers had indeed been trying to protect the galaxy from an external threat. But after observing Sovereign in ME1 and Harbinger in ME2, there was never any doubt in my mind that the Reapers were out to exterminate advanced organic life.
I disagree with you on the importance of the Citadel. The Council could have reconvened somewhere else. But disabling the mass relay network, that really would have made sense. I can only speculate that the Reapers were too arrogant to perceive the resistance against them as a serious threat. Maybe they were even looking forward to the fight, to bring some excitement into their otherwise boring lives.
You do make a valid point about the Crucible plans. I suspect the Protheans didn't quite know what it was and what it would do, so they just included the information simply because they had it, not because they realized its true importance. It's also possible that they intended this to be seen first by any later generations, but that due to damage to the facility or system failure, this didn't happen. There wasn't a VI on Mars like there was on Thessia and Ilos, was there? So it's plausible that Humans only found raw data.
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I'm glad that they changed it from Dark Energy too because it doesn't leave the player with a question with no correct answer. And the Humans are the solution to the whole problem thing... that doesn't bode well for me either. I mean, let humanity die and betray your people for the greater good? What's the point of playing the games and making choices that affect outcomes if it's essentially the refusal ending for the "Good ending?" In the current ending you have variation on the state of the galaxy based on your past choices and the amount of assets you rally. And before you say, well "If the shit heads at Bioware had brains, they would have a veneration of the ending where the present species eventually discover the solution to dark energy on their own," then that degrades the Reapers and their purpose even further. If dark energy can be solved without turning everything into bug juice, then why even do that every 50,000 Years? Do you think that it would have been better if the Reapers could come and explain the problem and impart their knowledge so they can find the solution on their own? And besides that, it's a scientific issue that has a definite solution whereas Organic Vs Synthetic is a social issue that has no definite solution. That way, the player can come up with their own understanding about three choices and come to their own conclusions about which is the best way to go. I'll admit, my character considered controlling the Reapers to save EDI and the geth but turned it down and destroyed the Reapers because no one entity should have that much power. Plus the reasoning behind the choice the player makes way for the story to be continued in their head canon and explore the theme further. I did mine in my epilogue Fic and my readers find it interesting from their reviews.
Plus if they wanted to stop Dark energy from spreading, then why create the Mass Relays when they rely on Dark energy? Aren't they contributing to what they want to stop from happening?
As for the Crucible, I felt it was the only way to make the story thematic based on it's setting and the state of the Reapers. In ME2, it felt boring and there was no sense of tension through the whole thing. It's just casually going around the galaxy Β to prepare for an assault that you can hold off for years. In ME3, it's "We have only one chance, time is running out, this moment is all up to you."And you saw at the end of ME2 that there are hundreds of thousands of Space squids and it took a whole fleet to take down just one, and that was after Shepard did a host feedback trick to weaken it. With the Crucible being used, we got an emotional "It's finally over" cinematic telling you the bittersweet sacrifice you've made for the galaxy. Hate the ending or not, you cannot deny the emotion in "An end, once and for all."
Besides, Master Chief defeated the flood not by popping every single flood spore, but by using a super weapon in a secluded area of empty space far away from any galaxy. So it'd be reasonable for the Space Squids to be destroyed in a similar fashion so there won't have to be a tedious bug, or squid, hunt after you finish everything.
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The story of ME3 would not have forced you to destroy the humans. Drew's idea was that Shep have a few descions. First, fight the reapers by bringing the galaxy together, win and have a hapy life, till the dark energy end everything. Second one is working together with the reapers. Instead of a crubicle you try to built a superstructre and try to find a way for not using all the humans for this... liguid
Last part is, if you fail with this plan, than the humans will get harvested by the reapers.
And why every 50.000 years, and why mass realis when it's use dark energy:
The intention of Drew was the following:
The people who created the mass relais and the ftl fly didn't knew that they force the spread of dark energy. After they found out they tried to find a solution, but they didn't were able too.
So they created the first reaper and end her "cicle". A cicle is ended every 50.000 years, cause this is a timeline in which the reaper try to find a solution. If they don#t they end it cause after this long time, many species are able to use the mass relais and use ftl. So they force the spread of dark energy. Ending the circle will stop that for now and the galaxy can "rest" a time till the next species learn to use ftl and so.
The crubicle... might be a good idea if it is used in it's original form, creating a device to stop the spreading of dark energy.
But I hate that the crubicle is a device that was never mentioned before. Which is found in a ruin which is completly deciphered many years ago. A ultimate and important weapon which building plans are put in only ONE beacon. This is what makes me angry. Changing the original story and make such a lazy story out of it.
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I guess you made a joke with Jack. cause I cannot think that you are serious at this point.
She is a criminal. Why is this classified? She has a huge bounty on her, so it is more than possible that she is searched in alliance space too.
On top, she is not that kind of woman, who become a teacher, and kids wuld tell this her parents, and those will ell questions to the people of the grissom academy.
And after that it will come out who Jack is... but all this would never happen for reals. cause such a subject won't become a teacher.
The thing with dark energy is, yeah it's a natural phenomenon, but the mass relais, the FTLspeed and so on, force the effect of the appearance of dark energy in a extremly way. This is why the reaper end a circle every 50.000 years. Cause then the people of the galaxy use the mass relais and fly too much in FTL. They end it, and the galaxy can "relax".Β I don't know what you mean. The Harbinger said "we are your salvation through destruction". that means only the destruction of humans (making a reaper out of them) will save the galaxy. The don#t destroy the organics for fun every 50.000 years. The do it to stop the fast spread of dark energy.
And where do the species meet? When do they recognize that the reapers are there? After the earth was taken the people came to the citadel. YOu know, i cause there was a council meeting. Imagine all important people fly to the citadel. The reaper wait there and kill everything and everyone who ame there. How is it possible to arange a new meeting, when the reapers kill everybody who want to find sefty at the citadel?
Maybe after they find out that the citadel is already taken, they try to find a new meeting point, but at this point there are many important people daed.
But your speculation is... really a joke. Reapers are no organics. They have no feeling for a "boring fight" "boring live" or "making a fight more difficult for fun". The reapers fight in a way which are the best for them... but the writers of ME3 fucked that up.
But this is anothe rpoint. Do you really think, that the protheans put the plans of the oooonly weapon which can destroy the reapers in only ONE beacon? This would be one of the dumbest descions the protheans did.
This whole crubicle thing, and Reaper in ME3 thing, is just a problem of lazy writing, new writers, and igrnoring past facts
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It is unfortunate that you call other people's arguments "jokes", but ok. One last reply.
My whole point is that the Protheans most likely didn't know what the Cruicible was and that it could save them from the Reapers. Nobody did. That knowledge seems to have been lost in time. The Protheans found these plans, and figured that they might be important, but their main strategy to save their species, after the military proved to be incapable of beating the enemy, was to hide in sleeper pods.
Also, they may very well have stored that information in more than one place, but it seems it only survived in the Mars Archives.
To me, that's not lazy writing, but very plausible.
As for Jack, I'm sure the Alliance can classify her record and hide it in the blackest of black holes. You may also want to remember that Grissom Academy is not your average school, but an Alliance-run installation, so it shouldn't be too difficult to give her a new past.
I do agree with you that ME2 Jack doesn't seem like somebody who'd even want to be a teacher, that part does require a rather large leap of faith. Maybe she was forced to accept it - new identity in exchange for favours. And stashing her away on Grissom, under supervision, would also keep her away from the general public. Win-win.
Dark matter/energy already is everywhere. It doesn't need to spread, so there's no point in trying to prevent that.
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I think we can agree that we mostly disagree
You may be right with the thing, that the protheans don't know many things about the crubicle, but only at the beginning of the game.
Rmember what the VI in the Thessia temple told us. The knew many things about the crubicle. They knw that many species tried to built it, so they had to know, that this is really important.
Well your point about it is maybe in other beacons... it just seems not right for me. It's not like that the reapers or other enemie start a great "deleting" on the beacons. Why survived? I don't think that the important information vanish after some time. That's why I think it#s lazy writing.
And as I said before, we won't find an agreement with Jack.
This is a high grade of immoralityto set a murderer infornt of your students without telling the parents. No matter if she can use her biotics good and she helped against the collectors. These are the only two points which can make you think "she might be good for our biotic kids". But all the other points are against this. And the thing with givin' her a new past and new ident... this sounds more like a secret service and not like a military thing. And as you see her in ME3 she has no new identity. She has this name Jack, talsk about her past and so on.
As I said, we won't agree. But I can't see that people of the alliance, a military organization who works with the council is allowed to set a murderer who is searched by many governments as a teacher.
dark matter is already here this is true. But the using of mass relais and ftl flight force the spread. That's why the sun of heastrom gots old so fast.
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They also set that thing with 'Stars are dying but no idea why' after Tali's loyalty mission and during Haestrom. But then in ME3 they were like "haha what,no the stars are fine as ever~Nothing to see here~"
They obviously were setting something up,but...Don't know what happened honestly...Β
It could be that EA wanted to rush the game out as fast a possible...
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