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DeepWoodian In reply to victricia [2017-02-24 13:33:43 +0000 UTC]

Thankies! It is good to know that I managed to reach that Aww -effect as it was my main goal here. Not a feeling which is usually attached to templars, I know. (Well, perhaps Ser Otto...) 

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victricia In reply to DeepWoodian [2017-02-26 14:19:27 +0000 UTC]

Indeed not! I find it actually quite interesting, and it was only when I started actually talking to Cullen about his templar life in Inquisition, plus forcing myself to side with them, that I finally started to see them as more than unfeeling towers of steel who hate everyone. I'm glad they're getting a bit more depth, but the entire world seems to be very heavily skewed against them from the player's point of view. 

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DeepWoodian In reply to victricia [2017-02-26 20:56:59 +0000 UTC]

Now you got me "out from the cage and running". This is my "forte".  

Haha... but I am actually one of those few who have always sympathized templars, already from the days of DAO. Like you said most don't share this opinion and there are few major reasons for this:
- majority of players (even today) are teenagers, who tend to have quite BLACK and WHITE worldview. There are no shades of grey, just innocent victims and evil oppressors and jailors. Therefore mages GOOD, templars BAD.
- chantry and templars are easily condemned when compared to our current moral codes and the liberal attitude of today. But Thedas can't be compared straight away to our world or to our way of thinking. Most won't acknowledge this.
- Bioware has really made templars to be less liked. I would even go so far that I claim Bioware to be biased and favor mages. The few good templars we ever meet are either killed or not seen again. Even in DAI when you recruit templars, Ser Barris cannot be found in Skyhold later on while Fiona is there in the opposite situation. And while Fiona and many mages complain to you that all accuse only mages and blame them for the war, I myself have always got the impression that a lot more people in game seem to blame templars than mages.

Heh, perhaps this is already over analyzing and I go way beyond what would be necessary in my thinking. But then again a lot of things related to DA seems to cause such behavior among fans.

But in short. I have always seen templars to be those who have to enforce the laws of the land and uphold the current status quo in a very difficult situation. Templar order is by no means flawless or those laws fair to all but the question and dangers of magic can't be just solved with "Hey, let's free all mages".

All this is just my personal opinion of course. 

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victricia In reply to DeepWoodian [2017-03-06 00:34:52 +0000 UTC]

Actually the majority of players are still adults, but possibly on the young side. The games are R-rated, after all :'D Not that there aren't people playing them who are below 18, of course... 

But yeah. That's kind of the thing - you get the old world catholic church vibe from the Andrastian Chantry, and absolutely they've managed to write the chantry and templars to be less likeable unless you dig a little. In a way, I've kind of hoped that they could make both sides of the argument as appealing, but then again, it might have something to do with the fact that whether in real life or in fantasy world, people tend to favour individualistic, liberal worldviews OR authoritarian, conservative world views. Something about the way our brains are wired, but it also connects to culture and even where we live, irl. I definitely think they did a better job of showing the shades of grey in Inquisition, but many things that the Templars do, like the Right of Annulment is something so severe and terrifying that I would say most people feel repulsed by such measures - even if they might be necessary. 

That said, we've never actually heard a truly compelling argument for that kind of action in the games. Especially Meredith is a raving lunatic by the end, who would stand by that? And while Fiona's folly is ultimately forgiven, High Seeker Lucius never actually makes an honest appearance during the equivalent quest for templars. Templars get the harsh light, whereas mages' mistakes and horrors are sort of... swept under the rug. But then, maybe it isn't a completely symmetrical situation. 

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DeepWoodian In reply to victricia [2017-03-06 22:45:12 +0000 UTC]

True enough although I have to say that there are adults and "adults". When I remember myself I can honestly say that I may have been officially an adult when I was 18 but in reality... I had no idea what adulthood really ment. I'll argue that even students (roughly ages 18-23) are not really adults yet. That comes only much later with more years and experience from society, work life, own family, successes and failures, etc.

Good point that our own opinions, likings, culture, etc pretty much sums up how we see also fantasy worlds and what ideas we support there. I can admit that I had quite"conservative" upbringing in a sense. That is that our family valued the "home, religion and fatherland". It was not zealous kind but more like silent respect for those values they represented. For example, I am not very religious myself but I still pretty much respect those values our religion represents. So in this light it is not perhaps a surprise that I symphatize those who in my mind represent the "law and order", even if they are flawed. Then again I have always liked "bad guys". I am an huge empire fan within SW.

In DAO I actually thought the Right of Annulment to not be so terrifying when I saw what had happened inside the tower. And while I always went with the "save all mages you can" option, I still acknowledged the necessity and need of such an order in certain situations. No wonder Greagoir was one of my favorite NPCs.

I haven't played DA2 (yep, still unplayed) but what I know about the events I think that Bioware really made a huge blunder with Meredith and lost an excellent opportunity to show the templar point of view. What I have read about her and her sister would have given Meredith a really good basis and "face" to represent the horrors and true fear which magic can cause. And you are right about Lord Seeker Lucius too. We never get to hear his initial mind and opinion. He is made a villain without salvation while Fiona can be saved and forgiven and she never really have to answer for her deeds. I don't know if things go a bit different if mages are made to serve you as prisoners though but I doubt that it changes this much. And finally I have to say that I never sympathised Fiona more than when I went with the templars and was forced to fought and kill her in the end of "In your heart shall burn". She clearly had went too far with her folly but that only showed her "humanity".  

One thing more which in my mind distords the players view of this is that abominations and demons are said to be horrific adversaries, almost impossible to kill single handedly and true scourges of mankind. Still player (who does not play in nightmare level) easily dispatch those after a little orientation to the games. They do not appear to players as terrifying as they should appear according to the lore. My opinion is that only revenants (especially in DAO in nightmare) gives us the "true feeling and fear" what these monsters are capable of and how devastating and difficult foes they are. And because of that templars are always needed in some form.

Huh, what a maraton this was. But finally I have to ask are you familiar of JANEARTS? She draws both DA and TES related art and I have always find her somewhat sketchy but clear style very much to my liking. And the facial likeness she gets to the characters. And I think that you too would like her art and style. If you are not familiar take a look here: janearts.tumblr.com/       

    

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victricia In reply to DeepWoodian [2017-03-20 15:05:30 +0000 UTC]

Well summed up! Forgive me for not elaborating further, but I think we got onto something there.  

Anyway, I was not familiar with her art, no! Very interesting style, although while her male faces kill me with envy, I'm a bit miffed that the relative realism of the men turns into disney-princessy beauty caricature for the ladies. Such fluidity though <3 

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DeepWoodian In reply to Loulin [2017-01-30 21:39:41 +0000 UTC]

Hopefully that flu has now gone or at least eased up?

Yep, those kids it was. Like you said quite guessable indeed because of that cover motif. By the way, originally I intended the cover picture to be one panel of the actual comic and therefore to be seen much later. And I think that it would have been quite striking page ending cliffhanger. But then I started to think the cover and that same drawing looked also good in that role. I was between these two choises and finally decided use it this way. I am not 100% sure was it the correct move but what is done is done. I have to think something equally striking for the later encounter.

The first panel "screamed" for the background but I just couldn't put myself to draw it. Therefore I had to try something this way. The "smoke effect" isn't actually cloud-render but few different layers, with different layer settings and some smoke-like textures combined together. All too time consuming to use in wide variety. Perhaps I should try sometimes the "real" comic raster textures if I find some free examples/brushes somewhere.

But if some self-praise is accepted, I have to say that I really like Livillas pose and the whole composition in that first panel.

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DeepWoodian In reply to Delfin-a [2017-01-26 17:45:27 +0000 UTC]

Thank you. One of my points with this comic is that there are also good templars. A fact that seems to be forgotten too often.

Thanks for the fave also.

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DeepWoodian In reply to asari13 [2017-01-26 07:54:57 +0000 UTC]

Thank you. I tried to add some emotion and compassion in to this scene. Both usually rarely associated to templars.

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