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DeevElliott — Saving The Comics Industry
Published: 2018-05-26 12:06:35 +0000 UTC; Views: 9854; Favourites: 12; Downloads: 0
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Over the last few years, I have stood by and frustratingly watched as the comic book industry continues to devour itself like the mythical Ouroboros, the snake that ate its own tail. Readership of comics continues to decline, comics that once sold hundreds of thousands of copies struggle to break six figures. A successful independent could be 5000 sales. Sales go down, prices go up. Large companies double down on their popular characters, diluting their entertainment value even more.
While I have primarily always worked for independent companies, I have worked as a freelancer at the larger companies too, both as a creator and packager. I've also worked for comic companies whose main markets were the newsstand and mainstream market.
With this in mind, last year I wrote a publishing proposal for both MARVEL and DC Comics to look at to encourage more lapsed and mainstream readers to start reading comics again.
To understand my approach, you have to understand that both Marvel and DC are owned by large corporations who are in competition with each other. Both produce over 70 different titles every month. These are far more titles than the market can really support, but neither company wants to admit that and neither is willing to cut back.
My idea was to keep the same dollar value of books coming out each month but create a Value For Money appeal to them. Instead of doing annuals as throwaway books just to fill a gap in the schedule, put top creators who no longer do monthly books on them and their shelf life will increase. Imagine Walt Simonson doing a Beta Ray Bill annual every year. Keep them all in print. They will continue to make money and Walt will get a nice royalty to keep doing them.
Below are the proposals I sent to Marvel and DC. I got some interesting feedback from them but they seem too firmly set in their plans to implement much of this.
DC Comics
Publishing proposal
The idea laid out below is to expand the story pages per issue so a single story can be told in each comic. The equation I have worked out is as follows; 80% of the issue is a single story with the other 20% made up of references and fall-out to previous stories and setting up the future stories.
Every issue should be a substantive read and enjoyable on its own with a tease to make the reader want more.
The problem with comics is that they cannot be read by the mainstream reader because there is no starting point. To understand reaching a wider audience you have to understand that the average person does not consume their media in the same way as comics readers have been trained to. They have to learn it in the same way people have been trained to binge-watch Netflix and HBO series where a large story is broken down into chunks. People don’t expect to see an article or interview to be broken down across 6 to 12 issues of People magazine or Vanity Fair. Every magazine is a done in one. Premiere magazine might do a series of features where each issue it looks at a different Stanley Kubrick film. It is a series but each article can be read and enjoyed separately.
The idea is to publish fewer titles at a higher cover price with greater perceived value. It also becomes possible to buy all the core universe books at $70 per month. Reading complete stories would encourage people to stop waiting for the trade, while still satisfying the current audience preferring a longer read.
Another possible suggestion to add to these is to start every year with a new number 1 but start numbering the volumes. Each year is one volume.
I’ve broken down the publishing schedule into MONTHLY, MINI-SERIES, QUARTERLY and ANNUALS.
There are 14 monthly titles but a further 10 titles a month because of the mini-series. I’ve assigned titles based on those that have the most long-range popularity while some titles that are currently popular I have pulled back on in an effort to make sure they stay popular and not to over saturate the market.
MONTHLY:
Monthly titles are 48 pages, 44 pages of story, $4.99
CORE TITLES: Titles that make up the must-read center of the DC Universe.
ACTION COMICS - Superman in cosmic action.
AQUAMAN
BATMAN
BIRDS OF PREY
DETECTIVE COMICS - Batgirl, Batwoman, Robin and Nightwing, sometimes Batman.
FLASH
GREEN ARROW
GREEN LANTERN
JUSTICE LEAGUE
SECRET SOCIETY OF SUPER-VILLAINS
SUPERGIRL
SUPERMAN - The life and times of Superman. Clark Kent, Lois, Daily Planet etc...
TEEN TITANS
WONDER WOMAN
REGULAR ANNUAL 4 MINI-SERIES: These titles get one mini-series a year. Not necessary to read to understand the DCU. No MINI-SERIES title can affect the larger DCU. Mini-series titles are 32 pages, 24 pages of story, $3.50
AGE OF HEROES (set in the past Viking Prince etc)
ALL STAR BATMAN
BATMAN BEYOND
BATGIRL
BATWOMAN
BLUE BEETLE
CATWOMAN
CYBORG
DEATHSTROKE
DOOM PATROL
GREEN LANTERN CORPS
GREEN LANTERN/GREEN ARROW
GOTHAM ACADEMY
HARLEY QUINN
HAWKMAN AND THE ATOM
HELLBLAZER
JONAH HEX
JUSTICE SOCIETY
LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES
LOBO
MOTHER PANIC
NIGHTWING
RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS
ROBIN
SHADE THE CHANGING GIRL
SHAZAM
SUICIDE SQUAD
SUPER SONS
SWAMP THING
QUARTERLY:
Quarterly titles are 80 pages, 72 pages of story, $7.99BRAVE AND BOLD
WORLDS FINEST
ANNUALS:
These are stand alone. Annual titles are 64 pages, 60 pages of story, $6.50
ALL STAR WESTERN
GOTHAM SIRENS
LOIS LANE
METAL MEN
OMAC
PHANTOM STRANGER
PLASTIC MAN
SECRET SOCIETY OF SUPER-VILLAINS
SGT. ROCK
SHAZAM FAMILY
TRINITY
ZATANNA
MARVEL
Publishing proposal
The idea laid out below is to expand the story pages per issue so a single story can be told in each comic. The equation I have worked out is as follows; 80% of the issue is a single story with the other 20% made up of references and fall-out to previous stories and setting up the future stories.
Every issue should be a substantive read and enjoyable on its own with a tease to make the reader want more.
The problem with comics is that they cannot be read by the mainstream reader because there is no starting point. To understand reaching a wider audience you have to understand that the average person does not consume their media in the same way as comics readers have been trained to. They have to learn it in the same way people have been trained to binge-watch Netflix and HBO series where a large story is broken down into chunks. People don’t expect to see an article or interview to be broken down across 6 to 12 issues of People magazine or Vanity Fair. Every magazine is a done in one. Premiere magazine might do a series of features where each issue it looks at a different Stanley Kubrick film. It is a series but each article can be read and enjoyed separately.
The idea is to publish fewer titles at a higher cover price with greater perceived value. It also becomes possible to buy all the core universe books at $70 per month. Reading complete stories would encourage people to stop waiting for the trade, while still satisfying the current audience preferring a longer read.
Another possible suggestion to add to these is to start every year with a new number 1 but start numbering the volumes. Each year is one volume.
I’ve broken down the publishing schedule into MONTHLY, MINI-SERIES, QUARTERLY and ANNUALS.
There are 14 monthly titles but a further 10 titles a month because of the mini-series. I’ve assigned titles based on those that have the most long-range popularity while some titles that are currently popular I have pulled back on in an effort to make sure they stay popular and not to over saturate the market.
MONTHLY:
Monthly titles are 48 pages, 44 pages of story, $4.99
CORE TITLES: Titles that make up the must-read center of the MARVEL Universe.
AVENGERS
BLACK PANTHER
CAPTAIN AMERICA
CAPTAIN MARVEL
DAREDEVIL
DOCTOR STRANGE
FANTASTIC FOUR
GUARDIANS OF GALAXY
HULK
INHUMANS
IRON MAN
MS MARVEL
NEW MUTANTS
SPIDER-MAN
THOR
X-MEN
REGULAR ANNUAL 4 MINI-SERIES: These titles get one mini-series a year. Not necessary to read to understand the MU. No MINI-SERIES title can affect the larger MU. Mini-series titles are 32 pages, 24 pages of story, $3.50
ANT-MAN
BLACK PANTHER CREW
BLACK WIDOW
BROTHERHOOD (OF MUTANTS)
BULLSEYE
CABLE
CLOAK & DAGGER
DEADPOOL
DEFENDERS
DR DOOM
ELEKTRA
FALCON
GHOST RIDER
HAWKEYE
IRON FIST
KINGPIN
LUKE CAGE
JESSICA JONES
MAN-THING
MOON GIRL AND DEVIL DINOSAUR
NICK FURY
NOVA
PUNISHER
ROCKET AND GROOT
SECRET WARRIORS
SILVER SURFER
SPIDER-GWEN
SUBMARINER
TALES OF ASGARD
UNBEATABLE SQUIRREL GIRL
VENOM
WARLOCK
WOLVERINE
QUARTERLY:
Quarterly titles are 80 pages, 72 pages of story, $7.99
BRING ON THE BAD GUYS
MARVEL TEAM UP
MONSTERS UNLEASHED
TALES OF THE WATCHER
ANNUALS:
These are stand alone. Annual titles are 64 pages, 60 pages of story, $6.50
BETA RAY BILL
GHOST RIDER
HOWARD THE DUCK
KAZAR/SHANNA
MAGNETO
MAN-THING
NEW MUTANTS
POWER PACK
SHE-HULK
X-MEN
So what do you guys think?
1/ Would you be okay with there being fewer titles published if it meant the long-term health of the industry could be improved?
2/ Do you think your favorite characters are oversaturated? Is less more?
3/ Would this plan make you read more or fewer comics?
4/ What are you currently reading?
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Comments: 52
The problem isn't the length or size. It's the people themselves I will never support because of their poor behaviour towards the customers.
The problem is that DC and Marvel are hiring unprofessional people that have been harassing customers on on social media then these same professionals wonder why the customers aren't buying their books. An artist working on a comic for children recently took an extreme closeup of his butthole and sent it to another professional on Twitter for all the world to see. Including children. Marvel has refused to take action against this person.
A DC artist called me a "man" for disagreeing with him about the constant usage of offensive stereotypes used by Marvel and DC's writing and editorial teams because no woman would ever hold such a view, therefore I can't be a woman. I don't think it ever occurred to the man that he was being sexist.
I was blocked by a female Marvel artist for calling out her sexism after she asserted that all women who disagree with her are "confused" because they're too stupid to think for themselves and must bow to her highly specific views in what women are allowed to believe in.
This isn't about the length of the product or the amount. I refuse to support sexist, racist bigots that Marvel and DC employ and who they refuse to punish for their bad behaviour. Both companies can rot until these people are either fired or appropriately punished for their behaviour while they formally represent their respective companies. I'm tired of their tokenism and their blantantly offensive attempts at "diversity" that do more to insult minorities than to represent them and the sickening people they hire to do that job.
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I've not gotten involved in the so-called #Comicsgate mess as I think both sides have something substantial to say yet both sides are acting appallingly. American comics are facing major issues, they're dealing with an infrastructure that was created 50 years ago and is out of date. They're refused to move and grow with the times. That this argument is taking place is just one of the symptoms of that decline.
Comics aren't going anywhere. The European and Manga markets are fairly strong and in much better shape, as is the American book market, mostly led by Scholastic.
My post is aimed more about changing formats to make it easier for lapsed and new readers to enter the market without creating a drastic change that would alienate the current readership.
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I agree that both sides are appalling. I heard Comicsgate panelists on one of their livestreams defending child abuse just the other day other and when called on it Ethan Van Sciver deleted the stream and pretended it never happened. He then went radio silent for the next day or so. It was even worse that not a single person in that livestream spoke out about it while it was it was happening. I don't think I'll be giving my money to quite a few people in comics for many years to come at this rate for the sheer unprofessionalism. I normally separate art from the artist, but stuff like that is just too reprehensible for me to consider doing any separation. On the point of infrastructure, Comicsgate is making the same mistakes as the old mainstream industry by refusing to offer digital distribution. They might be on a high now, but they're only repeating past mistakes in the infrastructure department.
I've become quite a fan of manga like My Hero Academia in recent years which is a nice take on the superhero genre by a manga. While I've moved away from Marvel, DC and friends, all it's done is encourage me to look elsewhere, as you've said, to some of the "newer" faces in the industry.
Formats are one part of the problem, but another is the people marketing them. If the creators themselves are so hostile, there's not going to be any inclination to read a comic where the creator has personally insulted you on Twitter or blocked you en masse for following someone unrelated. I think all of these issues have to be addressed and I'd say HR is arguably the easiest to fix. Format changes require some trial and error to hit the right fix, but the manga format seems to be a successful one, if a back breaking one for art and writing teams.
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1.
I believe back in the big money days of the 90s both companies were only putting out about 50 titles each. Fewer titles seems like a very obvious idea when you are hemmoraging money.
2.
I don’t believe my favorite characters are oversaturated, Marvel used to be able to handle both multiple Spider-Man and X-Men titles in the late 80s and 90s. The difference being is that they were all largely well handled books back then. I used to read all the Spider-Man books with no confusion and I recall there being X-Men (blue and Gold), X-Force, Generation X, Excalibur and possibly New Mutants going on at the same time. And still it all worked thanks to good stories, art and editorial.
3.
The plan could potentially cut down on my comic reading due to the price point. My consumption is limited given the expense of comics currently. While your plan ups the price fairly for addtional page count I rarely do premium books so I’m not sure if I’d shell out for the $8 quarterlies.
4.
More and more indies and web comics. Web comics are free and a surprising number of them are of a quality that they could easily be carried by smaller publishers like Dark Horse. I’m down to reading just 2 Marvel titles and both of them are Star Wars related (Darth Vader and Doctor Aphra). Bear in mind Ive been actively reading Marvel comics since I was 8 so that’s 41 years as a Marvel fanboy and I’m down to two titles (explanations to follow). I’m also reading The Terrifics (cause I love Plastic Man) and The Demon.
WHY ARE COMICS IN DECLINE?
Primarily this is a failing of Marvel Comics. Marvel has always been the industry leader but starting at least a decade back something started happening to Marvel, something I see more and more at DC as well, IDW, Image and other companies are falling to this for lack of a better word virus.
Like any company that has been around for so very long Marvel tries new things out from time to time. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don’t. What works you keep and if it doesn’t, you learn and move on. Marvel has slowly and increasing been trying to pull in new and younger readers which is a smart thing to do, hence the Ultimate Universe as Deev stated sometimes folks need a new jumping on point. The Ultimate line tried to capture the younger generation by being edgy and violent. Guess they forgot about the Dark Age of comics in the late 90s and how that fizzled. But the Ultimate line did have some good creators working on it which make the shock value for shock value’s sake tolerable. Sadly this trend didn’t last and the line died off.
So a more recent trend has been to hire a large number of people for key editorial positions who’ve never worked in comics or who no little or nothing of the medium. Now hiring one or two is fine, your can train them up but Marvel has hired a glut of them in the last decade and it shows. Add to that the trend of hiring young adult authors to try in bring in younger readers as well as replacing all the main characters with “legacies” who either outright take their place or share their name and roll at the same time and now you are getting an odd sort of over saturation by way of confusion. And lets not forget that potential readers (kids and others) who love the Marvel movies go to the comic store to find (at the time) Captain America is a Hydra Nazi, Falcon is Captain America, Thor is a woman and Iron Man has been replaced by a girl we’ve never even seen before.
Lastly has been the encrouching identity politics which have been pushed ever and ever more strongly until a dead horse has been beatin until it is nothing but a stain. Comics have always had a certain level of the political about them but it has gotten absurd and even disrespectful. Creators use social media to to spout off political vitriol instead of reaching out to fans to talk comics. Worse if a fan disagrees they are blocked forever by these creators which of course ends up as a loss of sales. I don’t know frankly if Marvel can recover, DC still has a chance, I think Dark Horse will be ok, IDW has lost over 90% of its profits in 2 years so they are in danger of folding and other smaller companies are in similar trouble.
Comics will not die, never, there are too many of us who love the medium and are willing to support new creators but I’d had to see it going back to being a struggling fad asking to the 40s and 50s when its been so relevant for the last few decades.
Ok that was LONG winded but I guess I had a lot to say.
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1. Fewer titles should mean that the remaining titles should sell more.
2. But you're a long time reader. The reason for advocating fewer titles and pulling back from having several titles with the same characters is to keep the titles both accessible and collectible. Harry Potter is still huge after only 7 books. The world is slowly being expanded upon but in a measured and sustainable fashion. Just because people ask for 4 Spider-man or Batman titles a month doesn't mean you should do it. It shows there is a demand and you want to keep it that way.
3. The quarterlies are aimed at an audience that may only read 6 to 8 comics a year. Self-contained reads for a larger audience.
4. You said you read all the Spider-Man and X-Men titles but now you're not reading any of them. Maybe you would be if the books were open to being picked up sporadically rather than having to pick them up every month. That's how comics used to be. More casual readers than collectors.
WHY ARE COMICS IN DECLINE?
A lot of the reasons you stated could be aimed at the same causes I am trying to address. Too many stories about these characters and the adherence to continuity make for some pretty boring stories. We've seen it all before. Until the late 70's, publishers presumed the average reader only read comics for three or four years at most, so they felt they could keep recirculating storylines and characters without hurting their base. The current base are pure fans who are keeping track of storylines. Changing the gender of characters is a way of taking a major character off the table and then bringing them back with a reboot.
I agree that new hires don't have comics experience, but I wish the people who were already in place, who will train these new hires, had more real publishing experience. Most are all fans or creators who have worked their way up.
I agree that Comics will not die, but there are far fewer people buying comics today and those that are are still focusing mainly on Marvel and DC books. The bigger the audience, even if the same percentage buys Marvel and DC books, the better support independents will have. Marvel and DC (and perhaps Archie Comics) were historically the best feeders of readers to independents.
Thank you for taking the time out to voice your thoughts!!
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Glad to lend my voice to the conversation though I still disagree with some of the points youve brought up hear I honestly dont want to write another long winded response.
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Well put, Dave!
1/ Would you be okay with there being fewer titles published if it meant the long-term health of the industry could be improved?
I would. I already shy away from super-heroes for many of the reasons stated in your proposals.
2/ Do you think your favorite characters are oversaturated? Is less more?
Yes, oversaturation and a total mixup of crossovers and summer events makes it very unappealing for me. Less is more indeed.
I think comics not from the Big Two (super-heroes) are not oversaturated.
3/ Would this plan make you read more or fewer comics?
I would maybe read more super-hero comics.
4/ What are you currently reading?
TPBs and albums, from all the world markets and genres.
From the super-hero genre, I pick older time-proven miniseries, where I know that it works well on its own (for example 2 TPBs of Thor from Straczynski/Coipel/Martin, first 3 TPBs of Haunt by Kirkmann/Ottley/Capullo, the complete Luther Strode, 1 TPB of Wild C.A.T.S. by Lobdell/Charest, Punisher stories by Ennis/Parlov, Ultimates by Millar/Hitch, Wolverine by Buscema, Batman by Snyder/Capullo, ...).
I used to read lots of X-men, Spider-man and Batman comics, but then I lost count and orientation.
Also, the creative teams changed too fast. I hate it, when I buy a series for the art of artist XY and then it suddenly changes to XZ.
I prefer mini-series with a stable team and occasionally, a cool one-shot.
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You can tell these companies are run by accountants because they have no love for anything. They push for extra titles of what sells well not realizing it is diluting both their own lines and the market.
I'd push for more stories that could be trades like the original X-Men / Alpha Flight crossover by Chris Claremont, Paul Smith, and Arthur Adams.
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I am still waiting for the (Cheap)double A4 softscreen reader that will make digital comics pleasurable.
Then young fans can have a monthly or weekly five dollar bundle of all their favourite titles, including dipping into the indie pond.
IMO that would go a long way to reviving the comic format.
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Interesting lineup, I would have added Marvel Spotlight and DC Showcase. So they can try out new characters and give old ones a shot again.
another, very important thing that comic companies need to do, is have a zero tolerance policy in place for bad behaviour on their creators. for both, real life and social media. the things they have said and done is what is driving people away.
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I'm good with all the above. Currently only keeping up with X-Men Red at the moment... Not that I don't want to read more, but I forgot to keep up then fell out of the loop; Red is brand new so its easier to follow that way.
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1/ Would you be okay with there being fewer titles published if it meant the long-term health of the industry could be improved?
I'm all for it. Too many titles are counter-productive, it makes this particular kind of unified Universes to lose focus and consistency. Besides, there's no way I can buy more than 5 books a month!
2/ Do you think your favorite characters are oversaturated? Is less more?
As a designer by trade, I can surely say less IS more. All the top characters of these two companies are oversaturated.
3/ Would this plan make you read more or fewer comics?
If a rise in the quality would follow, for sure. Specially the annuals, that's a great idea.
4/ What are you currently reading?
Mostly Image titles. Marvel and DC only if the writer/artist combo is to my taste (like the recent Starlin/Alan Davis Thanos and Sean Murphy Batman).
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I quit reading comics in the 90's back when Wolverine and the Punisher and Spider-man all had about a dozen comics each and guest starred in every other one. Half the Marvel comics had an X in the title. It got overwhelming and I couldn't afford them all so I was going to cut down and then decided to just quit altogether. Plus, comic issues had gotten more expensive. They went up to a whopping $1.75 an issue! Madness!
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I still remember paying 50¢ for a comic! :-D
The only way prices can drop is if readership rises. But then as the big two are corporate owned, they are unlikely to lower the cover price. They wouldn't equate increased readership with a need to lower price, they'd let editorial take the credit and leave the pricing as it is.
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Yeah, they were $1 when I was reading comics but then they went up to $1.25 and then $1.50 and then $1.75. That must made me buy less because I couldn't afford them. I was just a kid in high school. I didn't have a lot of money to throw around. I don't know what goes on in their heads. I guess they think that if they raise the price they'll make more money but it doesn't work that way. If you have five dollars to spend, you have five dollars to spend. If the comics cost more, you just buy less for the five dollars. You aren't going to keep buying the same number of comics and spend more money. It's the same with movies and everything else. "Let's raise ticket prices and we'll make more money!" No, you raise ticket prices and I just go to the movies less often, dickheads.
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If they capped salaries and producers fees and royalties, maybe they could lower movie ticket prices. But I really can't see them ever lowering prices.
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I was only briefly (but intensely) into Spiderman. When I had access to it, the old Lobo stuff was fun and occasionally above my age-rating. That's about the extent of my interest in superhero stuff. Comics are my absolute favorite entertainment medium, and when I buy, I'll go out of my way to order comics through my local shop rather than buy off Amazon. However, I'm an indie reader, and more likely to buy from Image or Darkhorse when it comes to the larger publishers. So my opinion is... not so useful?
1. Yes, totally okay with fewer titles if quality improves.
2. I thought things in superhero-land were oversaturated when I was a kid and my opinion hasn't changed.
3. Hmmm... it'd make me read more comics, but honestly, I'm not a fan of any of the core titles... I am completely over the superhero genre. So damned predictable.
4. "Chew" (Image).
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I am glad to see that your proposals are quite reasonable and logical, rather than relying on gimmicks.
I have my doubts though that DC or Marvel would do any of that. That's why I prefer the independent scene and especially concentrating on the bookstore/library market. Smaller, independent companies allow for more "biodiversity" rather than cliches and regurgitated material that has plagued superhero comics for a long time. It's a shame that superhero material dominates the market and chokes the life out of anything else like funny animal, crime, horror, etc.
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If the big companies allowed each title to exist on its own terms, you could get far greater diversity. Detective Comics could go back to focusing on Batman actually being a real detective and real crime stories.
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Can creator owned comics save the comics industry?
The Comics Industry is going through something of a secret crisis right now. A crisis that could have been avoided, but one where there is still a way out. The two biggest problems are a stagnation of business ideas and lack of sales.
Let’s look at the origins of these problems
For years many have bemoaned the fact that comics have lost their easy accessibility. For decades comi
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Your plan kind of reminds me of how the European comics market works. I think that the American market should really base it off of it. Although, right now, the European market has also the problem of publishing too many comics each month too...
I think that another problem that the Americans comics should do if change the production time frame of a single comic. To make a single issue of a comic, The penciller, inker and colorist each have 3 weeks to produce 22 pages of comics. I think that is a too short amount of time. I think that it lowers the quality of a comic because everyone becomes too stresses and burned out.
In Europe, to make a 48 comic pages, an artist (who does the penciling and inking) has between 4 to 9 months to make it. Because of that, there is more diversity in genres and art styles with higher quality books.
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I'd love it if America moved to the European system of publishing. It would be a big risk for them and their overall revenue would drop dramatically for a few years, but it could then be built up into something solid afterward.
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Regarding DC Comics this is what I think:
1- I'm sorry, but Superman is not interesting anymore, especially when they made him too powerful; not worth it. If DC can not do something like the Saitama character in "One Punch Man", I do not want it. Or at least make a miniseries like "All-Star Superman" or "For the Man Who Has Everything" probably consider it; otherwise the answer is no.
2- Wonder Woman is a ridiculous character and although I appreciate the contribution of the character from the moment of his creation in favor of the rights of women and feminist movements at that time, especially in the United States, it is not worth it.
3- Green Lantern is worth it as long as you keep telling good stories and do not repeat the same nonsense of creating mega events, and that.
4- First: Batman was good in the nineties and before them, and unless for the crossover miniseries with other publishers, at the moment it is not worth it. Second: If they do not remove all traces of the SJW in the Nightwing series it's not worth it. Third: Damian Wayne as Robin is not worth it. Fourth: Bat-girl sucks as a concept unless the character is Cassandra Cain and the costume she wore in the 90s; point. Fifth: Batwoman does not interest me; point.
5- Supergirl? No..
6- Lobo, the old version, yes.
7- Birds of Prey, if it is the version before the New 52, yes; otherwise it is a no.
8- Green Arrow ignoring what came after the New 52, of course.
As for Marvel Comics, if that company does not get rid of the SJW, between 80 and 90% of its comics will remain bad and / or horrible; point. But I admit that your ideas are good, but the SJW destroys everything it touches, and that is the sad reality. Greetings.
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The real point is to alter the form people consume their comics. Twice as many pages per issue but more single and two-part stories rather than convoluted epics spanning years.
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I think that's fine, but technically that does not solve the problem of the SJW in Marvel Comics, Image and IDW. At the moment, there is a dispute between a person who created a comic book called "Jawbreakers" and Mark Waid, together with the SJW, threatened each store comic store in the United States so that these stores can sell it and thus solve the problem of closes of the comic book stores caused by the SJW in the first place. Believe me I'm not making it up, it's really happening. For the rest, I agree with you regarding your ideas but while the SJW is controlling the comic industry in general, the only thing that will be will be mediocrity and decadence. That's all I can tell you for now. Greetings.
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I heard of what you're talking about but have been ignoring it. Life's too short to bother about things like that.
I just want to focus on ways more people can read and enjoy comics.
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I agree with you, but the SJW is still in charge of most of the comic book industry; sorry.
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I saw the title and I was a little worried that it would devolve into 'anti-SJW, diversity is destroying everything' gibberish that I've seen a lot on twitter, but these are good suggestions. Sadly, I'm not reading comics these days, so I can't really contribute.
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The idea is whether a change in format and approach might make you come back and at least try a few comics again.
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Interesting ideas,
I haven't bought floppy comics in years though for several reasons. the price2value is 1 factor, but also the content.
At this point the comics companies have to try Something else because what they're doing aint' working.
IMO, If they were smart they'd test several different marketing, pricing and production models options on a few lesser titles over a couple of years to try to see what clicked best.
But that's to much like work i guess.
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I like the overall idea. There are too many titles. Without question. And I do agree with going with the limited and annuals as a way to shore up your lines with extra content without announcing a new ongoing that ends in 12 issues.
The one thing I am not sure about, is 44 page of art a month. I work in comics and in animation. And I can say, comics is one of the hardest jobs an artist can have. The need to create SO much content, very detailed, on a daily bases, with no off season. 22 pages is already hard, especially when you take into account the need to also spend time with your family and friends. Plus enough of a break to avoid burnout (which already still happens). Doubling that workload is just not viable. Add to that comics is one of the lowest paid jobs an artist can get, then double the workload. No. It can't be done. At best you would need 2 artist team on the same issue. Or allow an art team to get fully done before soliciting the issue, and have another team doing the next issue. But fans would hate to have art teams switch between issues or even in mid-issue. I think the idea of monthly comics need to go. People demand comics to be more and more detailed. Sure, Kirby and a few of the golden age artists could pump out 2-5 pages a day, but if you look at it, the would pick one or two pages per issue to make amazing and the rest look rushed. When they had time to really devote to an issue, it was WAY better.
I think the time of the floppy comic is over. As you said, people want to binge on things. So I think we need to just start releasing the full story in longer formats. 50-60 pages every quarter that tell a whole story. Offer subscription services that allow you to read sets of pages every week as it is being made, then get send the final print issue when it ships. Or just buy the actual issue. Plus, the pay for talent HAS to go up. I have talked to so many people who have worked in comics, from indy to the big two and they are barely getting by. So many want to leave comics because it is so hard to get by doing just comics. They have to do conventions and commissions and sell their pages just to help get by. That is a shame.
The industry as it stands, is dying. Something has to change. And the changes we are seeing is going in the wrong direction. Basically Marvel and DC are pretty much using comics as ads for the movies, shows, video games, etc. Because they make WAY more money off that end than publishing. If something doesn't change I think we are going to see Marvel and DC end publishing. Either they farm it out at a lower price to other publishing houses as tie ins to their other media, or only release comics to tie to the newest movie coming out.
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I agree completely on the "time of the floppy comic is over." As a reader, I prefer a bound comic with multiple issues over my single issues that are often tainted with ads. It's a practicality on top of a preference to simple have more story at once. Plus, storing single issue collections is a pain in the arse.
I never went into comics because all I see is literal starving artists suffering for their art...
DC and Marvel rely too heavily on formulaic superheroes. There's little innovation. It's long been stagnant, and honestly, I'm surprised they're still going with all the same lines. I think they would've been dragged under by those anchors ten years ago if the movies hadn't made it big. Something's gotta change because something's gonna break.
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Ads are a necessity. The cost to print the comics, ship, market, and cover management is not even covered by profit, especially when you have to well to Diamond at such a mark down. So if the floppy comics go away, ads will just move to the bound comics.
The problem right now with the big two is their success. Now they are market icons. And no one wants to risk telling an edgy story in fear it could make them lose some of the precious 'family friendly' market.
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Oh, I dunno. I disagree that the ads would move to the bound comics. I've only ever seen ads in the big publisher's single issues. I've never found them in my small-press comics, foreign comics and one-shots. Granted, I'm a reader, not a serious collector, so there are likely a number of comics I'm unaware of that still feature ads. I still think it's unlikely that ads would automatically carry into the collected issues, though I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the big guys kept going with the status quo. Disappointed, but not surprised. Ads eff with my reader's chi.
Yeah, but it's the same in the film industry right now too. Everyone's afraid to sell something that isn't firmly entrenched in a franchise. The spec script market is out the bottom, originality is getting punched in the face, and everyone is holding tight and hard to the ol' faithfuls.
It'll all come back around, one way or the other.
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There will be ads IF the floppies go away. Ads pay for a LOT. And if the floppies are not bringing in that money, they will go into the bound.
There are places for the creative voice. It's just now it is in places like Netflix, that isn't beholden to shareholders that want a payday. Yet anyway.
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This is not the thing I wish to hear. La la la la! >_<
I kinda gave up on the big guys a long time ago, so I guess they can do whatever they want. My small-press folks have little money but ads have yet to invade my precious indies.
I swear, becoming publicly traded is the worst for business integrity.
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As a guy who works in indy comics, I WISH we could have ads. After the discount Diamond and the stores get, and the publisher recoups their losses, we barely make anything. If there were ads, then the publisher could recoup through them and the creative team could have a higher profit. It would be a win for the whole group.
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Unfortunately for independents, the ads only work with Marvel and DC because of the number of titles and collective volume of eyeballs on the ads. The ads aren't sold per title but across the board. You pay for one ad that will be seen in 70 different titles in a given month. Independents can't compete with that.
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This suggests that perhaps there is a niche to be filled: an ad broker who could sell spots in indy books. Perhaps.
On the other hand it's not like Image or Dark Horse have any ads in them (aside from a few pages of ads for other comics from the same company), and both of those companies have large enough lines to be worth selling ads across.
And honestly as an independent creator I don't even really bother with floppies, having ads in the middle of books is *possible* but would feel super weird.
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Yeah, when you think of it as a pie chart, Marvel and DC get like 85%, then the top indys, Image, Dark Horse, Boom, etc get 10% then the rest of that 5% of sales get split between like 40 other publishers. It gets really hard to get someone to invest in anyone in that tiny percent of eyes.
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It's why most independents when from 32 pages plus covers to just 32 pages. Losing the covers saves them a few hundred dollars on printing and lowers shipping costs. That's the only places where independents can save money.
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There should be a banner hanging over the metaphorical entrance of professional comic production: Welcome to Comics! Everyone's Broke Forever.
I don't deny the monetary value of ads – that's why ads eventually invade all our darlings. I still resent the hell out of them and tend to boycott things I know have ad saturation. I'd actively avoid collected issues with ads, though if things came in magazine format the way weekly mangas in Japan do, it'd probably be less disturbing.
I don't know what "the better way" is, but it's bound to develop sooner rather than later. Crowdfunding and subscriptions have managed to help foster comic production in a way that was never possible before, so there's hope.
Probably not for the Marvel and DC people. Those guys are boned.
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Writers are able to deal with more pages per issue than artists, even though the writers wouldn't be able to stretch things out so much. They'd have to work harder to create more story ideas per year. For the artists, it would have to be along the lines of similar artists working on a single title. Imagine Ryan Benjamin, Jim Lee and David Finch all working on BATMAN. It would take a few months to prepare but after that, they should be able to keep things going. Each artist doing two or three issues before the next artist's run begins.
Floppies are dying, mostly because of pricing, and content. Not enough perception of value for money. They're also a format designed to be on racks in places they're no longer available in. My suggestion of larger page counts is just to edge us closer to just releasing graphic novels.
Artists are having a tough time of it. So many publishers screw artists out of money by offering low rates, especially on licensed books and then not giving them royalties or reprint fees. It's a disgusting practice that needs to stop.
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Yeah, as it stands now, comics are either going to be changed all together, or will stop being comics and simply multi-media companies that sometimes print out comics to simply tie into their other things. I think since publishers see less and less value for comics AS comics, there will never be better pay.
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Better pay only comes in the industry through royalties and many companies don't pay royalties or reprint fees in the case of licensed titles. This enables them to double dip but blame the license holder for not being able to reward the creative teams.
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There are a lot of problems. The big two are owned by WB and Disney, both who are under union rules, that make sure their cartoon artists are paid a very fair wage, get insurance, mone for education, etc. WHY can't they do the same thing for the comic artists? Because they don't see worth in the comic, only the characters to make money off of in other media.
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There have been a few attempts to start a comic book creators union but it has never gotten very far because so few creators are willing and able to pay into it. Those that would benefit most from it can't afford it and those that can afford it are doing all right for themselves. It would need to make enough money to have staff and those in the union would have to make a stand against a company if necessary. Creators are too scared or just don't care enough to make such stands.
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The way animation guild works is there is a one time join fee (Unless you can show you have worked in animation over a certain period of time. Then you can get grandfathered in.) And a yearly fee based off your pay level. So the lower artists pay less and the higher pay more. And it can be stretched out over the year, so it is not all out of pocket in one go. Or if you want/can, you can do a lump sum to just pay it off.
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1. Yes.
2. Definitley. Need a little taken off the top, no doubt.
3. Probably more thinking about it.
4. Slogging through Old Man Logan, and various others (and mangas too 
It's a really great idea, shame it'll fall on deaf ears
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Honestly, I'm not sure that the comic companies mentioned care about saving their own works, especially with DC throwing a lot of older fans like myself into the trash. I cannot stand reading any of the current DC titles, though I have tried, since I feel not only lost, but like they are trying too hard to recapture and rework storylines that worked for them in the past. Marvel is slightly better with a few titles that I can follow: the Champions and the character's own books have been enjoyable. So, what I have been doing is going back through Marvel's titles that I missed since going to college back in the 1980s and catching up ... the place I went did not have the best way of getting these titles consistently, but with a few of the webpages that allow these classics to be read, I'm slowly returning to enjoying comics.
From what I have seen, the comic industry had started falling apart back in the 1990s and just kept on with a painful slide down the hill, though occasionally having a moment where things seemed to get better, just not enough. I'm not sure about the fewer titles, but it would be logical and it would have to depend on bringing good and consistent talent to the title as well. It's possible that I might read more comics, especially if DC did this, but they are going to have to work hard to get me to return to their comics.
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People like us should be these companies target audience, yet after having read comics all my life I suddenly know nothing about these once familiar characters. Too many creators are fans and when they get into positions of power they do what they want as fans rather than to protect the characters and preserve them for the next generation.
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