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Published: 2017-09-08 23:37:32 +0000 UTC; Views: 6178; Favourites: 28; Downloads: 3
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It should be called the tale of the lazy-ass critter. And I summed up the damn thing in 3 panels...If you're a Stephen King fan reading these words you might be disappointed. Much like Tolkien fans reading my words.
I am planning to see the new movie of course (HYPE AS HELL SON !), but now that I've read the novel, I really hope they'll iron out some of the weaknesses of the initial narrative.
My experience with King and adaptations of his work goes like this:
* Shining: I really prefer the Kubrick version. I identify with Nicholson's character on many many ways.... more than I could with the dude in the book. And the TC mini-series...NO COMMENT. THAT is why "Superficial faithfulness" is just as bad as shitting all over the material.
* Green Mile: BOTH are FANTASTIC. Both are tear jerkers and in a literal way in this case. The last act of the movie is still hard to watch for me!
* Misery: Both versions are good.
I've had IT for a long time somewhere eating dust, but I did not get around to read it (hohoho !) because I've had a lot of other stuff on the plate already, hands being tied and personal drugs to be consumed. The french edition I have cut the thing in 2 big books for practical reasons. I have gradually read it and IT is a pretty good book... FOR THE MOST PART. In fact, I believe it's a mistake to cut it in 2 movies but I will get to why...
Oh and no, I never understood the fear of clowns. Grow up already or get help. Yeah the Uncanny Valley and creepy imagery, fine I get that. BUT it's just an image. It's not gonna jump out and kill you. That is my job....
******************************************* SPOILERS (It's outta my hands now!) **************************************
PROS:
+ The parts with the kids in general are suspenseful and a page turner. Yup, I am talking about the book here and YES, even in the TV mini-series that characteristic is seriously highlighted. The kids were played by pretty good actors and portrayed very convincingly. Their friendship is damn heart-warming and it's very hard not to feel for them. They're very believable, sympathetic and relatable.
*Bill Denbrough- Suffers a speech impediment and later grows to be a novelist (self-insertion here ? Naaah ! Adult Bill is bald ! XD). Will suffer the grief of having lost his younger brother to the anthropophagic doucheback living in the sewer for most of the novel. As for his parents, I can't feel too harsh on them because they fucking lost their kid, man ! How can that NOT mess them up ?! I don't condone their behavior but it really feels they took the brunt of the trauma...
*Richie Tozier- ... there's a good reason he was played by Seth Green XD. Is generally damn funny.
*Eddie Kaspbrak- Doesn't get a break for most of the story and man is his mother an overbearing annoyance! If he weren't inthis story, he'd become Lionel Cosgrove...which would be admittedly awesome !
*Ben Hanscom- aka the Fat Kid and easily my favorite of the protagonists. He's just adorable.
*Beverly Marsh- MAN did she get the worst price at the bad luck lottery! Are we sure her dad's last is not really Krueger? Because THAT would be hardly surprising...
*Stan Uris- Mr Skeptic and ornithologist.
*Mike Hanlon- The last to join and most interested in the history of Derry. And man what a history, it puts Gotham to shame!
+ The historical parts are fairly good and emphasize the eerie atmosphere of the place. As long as It remains mysterious in them...
+ The town's populace. These fuckers are even worse than it. Their neglect and indifference stroke me as being ironically way worse than the actual monstrosity.
+ Patrick Hockstetter...Jesus fuck !
+ The mental degradation of Henry Bowers. From killing Mike's dog to carving Ben's stomach, this prick was 2 steps from growing into a Bible Black character.
+ Beverly's dad. What an asshole...
+ Pennywise ITSELF! www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1NBMy…
In the childhood parts of the book , it is simply a great boogeyman ! True, it takes various horrifying shapes (the leper, Nosferatu and various 50's Hammer movies monsters) but its clown shape remains the most memorable and for good reason. It takes something joyful and innocent like clowns and uses it to mock the kids ! And kudos to Tim Curry by the way ! The only major difference he has with the literary clown is that of costume color (the make-up is a bit vague in the book); Curry's is yellow with the blue jacket and arms while Book Penny has one clear silver uniform. The lines were ad verbateum and the delivery was perfectly accurate. In Clown form, It LOVES goofing around and has a jolly good time tricking the kids !
While not as prevalent in the book as one might presume, IT OWNS the scenery any time it pops up ! NOTE that I am praising its mystery factor and its boogeyman quality here...
+ If one rides a bicycle with a hot chick on it, it is a sure way to get a boner !
CONS :
- The adults part of the narrative... when the characters were introduced through their adult lives it was okay. Hell, at times, it was haunting. BUT the more it went on, the less I could care. I really was wishing it'd cut the crap with the flashback and simply stuck to the Kids' story. THAT is the major strength of it! Childhood ! The book would be shorter and waaay more visceral had King stuck to a group of kids confronting an evil clown looking fiend (more on that later). The adult years reeeaaally end up dragging things down !
- "This book was begun in Bangor, Maine, on September 9th, 1981, and completed in Bangor, Maine, on December 28th, 1985." I THINK this is where the problem lies...it has been said that he wrote himself in a corner with it and it definitely shows at some points. There is too much filler in the last third and even cuts in the middle of the final confrontation ! MAN did King desperately need an Editor with a tight grip !
- Patrick is infinitely scarier than Henry and King wastes him in a few chapters. It would have made more sense if IT manipulated HIM instead of Henry. hell, there would not be even any need to manipulate him, just steer him in the right direction !
- The whole fucking Macroverse explanation and pfff... the "true" form. THIS is similar to why I prefer Kubrick's Shining over the novel version. OVER-explaining Horror can kill Horror ! Pennywise worked waaaay better as a man-eating Mxyzptlk. We knew the clown was not its true form BUT we never needed to get too close to said form. The moment the whole deal turned into "so it was a spider with its ballsack", It pretty much lost its intimidation cred (if you don't believe me , I refer to the above !). Hell the mini-series second part blows (Tim Curry aside...) because that pay-off was weak even in the book. Special effects aside, they didn't really have much to work with ! No wonder Cary Fukunaga wanted the final shape to be Lovecraft's Starro !
No, I don't give a fuck about the universe-creating Turtle! This is like turning the visceral horror, desperation and dread (like Alien 3) into a goofy shoot'em up (like Aliens)... and the story was the poorer for it. Just to make things SIMPLE :
a) Stick to the clown as the default shape
b) make its past vague as fuck. Hell, have it be a spectre, that's more than enough !
c) The kids kill the fucker with the Chud ritual without it turning into some pregnant spider stuff
d) END IT THERE !
- The final fight between Bill and It really goes like this www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTCPeq… . I am not even joking, it's a hilarious note to end the battle on and it's followed by an MK fatality !
- "a bunch of eleven-year-old children having a gang bang in the sewer" ... When I reached THAT part, I was like this www.sideshowtoy.com/mas_assets… . I mean, WHAT ? What the fuck is a shota/loli hentai doing here ?! And it's in the last few pages and UTTERLY UNNECESSARY ! If someone tries to justify that shit, call the cops...
- And in the end, everybody forgot about each other. Fuck you amnesia ! Can't anybody get anyone else's phone number anymore ?!
There it is folks. Was It a good book ? YES for the first 2 thirds, nope for the last chapters and FUCK NO for the epilogue ! Can an adaptation improve IT ? YES. Hell even the mini-series proved that, STICK TO THE KIDS PART AND KILL THE FUCKER THERE. Just.ONE.Confrontation. Just the Ritual exorcism style, No space turtles, No Gang-bangs, No Overwrought monster backstory. Like the first Alien, just kill the son of a bitch. END OF STORY.
Related content
Comments: 41
gordonphilbin [2025-11-20 02:18:57 +0000 UTC]
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devilkais In reply to gordonphilbin [2025-11-29 15:28:13 +0000 UTC]
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gordonphilbin In reply to devilkais [2025-11-29 16:32:07 +0000 UTC]
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AlanGBandala [2022-02-25 03:15:07 +0000 UTC]
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devilkais In reply to AlanGBandala [2022-03-05 13:23:43 +0000 UTC]
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AlanGBandala In reply to devilkais [2022-03-06 04:49:37 +0000 UTC]
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william023 [2018-01-10 22:04:53 +0000 UTC]
What if whenever pennywise reverts to his true form, it is surrounded by smoke, and is barely seen, almost like the body emits a dark red steam. Sometimes the other forms revert partially back to the true form during certain scenes, giving us nuggets of the true form's actual appearance, but leaving it mostly down to our imagination. That might make the true form a lot scarier if we only got little vague hints about how it looks.
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devilkais In reply to william023 [2018-03-04 21:17:09 +0000 UTC]
True. It's unfortunate the book details it at times while saying it's still vague.... yeah , it was confusing !
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william023 In reply to devilkais [2021-02-26 00:11:50 +0000 UTC]
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william023 In reply to devilkais [2019-12-02 12:58:42 +0000 UTC]
I loved the remake of chapter one but chapter 2, while amusing, was pretth ridiculous. They couldn't decide whether to keep pennywise as a default shape of have a giant spider so it ends with him appearing as a drider with a giant clown's head.
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AlanGBandala In reply to william023 [2022-06-30 15:01:21 +0000 UTC]
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devilkais In reply to william023 [2020-01-16 11:07:31 +0000 UTC]
What I got from the movie is that the balls of light are its true form. But yeah they should have made shapeshift like in the stop motion flashback.... and they could've cut 40 damn minutes of the movie ...
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VortexOmega [2017-09-10 17:10:31 +0000 UTC]
The child orgy....
I think that we lost nothing of value wene both movie versions WISELY left that out.
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devilkais In reply to VortexOmega [2017-09-23 20:49:26 +0000 UTC]
Absolutely... and man did it not serve any purpose whatsoever !
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Touch-Not-This-Cat In reply to devilkais [2017-11-12 13:28:29 +0000 UTC]
Well, I got a sense that the kids needed a powerful ritual to seal their oath, and having no knowledge whatsoever of any concrete chaste traditions on the subject, what with their Yankee simple Protestant cultural environment having kept all such knowledge far away, they improvised, defaulting to the most powerful thing they could think of instinctively. That's what I took from the orgy. If there was a stronger Rite available to them that would have let them keep that last scrap of innocence, they would have taken it.
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devilkais In reply to Touch-Not-This-Cat [2017-11-12 16:58:40 +0000 UTC]
Even THEN, it does not change the fact that this bullshit comes up out of nowhere ! A ritual ? Fine, have blood exchange, blood pacts, animal sacrifice or something ! You know ? Something to NOT put a child orgy IN DETAIL in a horror story ? A horror story that I was enjoying no less. Thank Lord the movies (mini-series and the new one ) saw this bullshit for what it was and ditched it !
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Touch-Not-This-Cat In reply to devilkais [2017-11-13 05:44:53 +0000 UTC]
I also think that, as it was Beverley's idea, that King was trying to get across the unfortunate side effects on a girl that molestation can have. She alone among them already knew how powerful sex can be, as a negative force, so what if it could be turned to a POSITIVE force....
...that's the only scrap of sense I can make of it, at any rate.
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AlanGBandala In reply to Touch-Not-This-Cat [2022-02-25 03:21:08 +0000 UTC]
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devilkais In reply to Ruyc [2017-09-09 17:29:14 +0000 UTC]
Unlike him , I've researched my subject a bit better XD
Seriously though, I hope the new movie gives it the Kubrick treatment (to hell with hardcore King fans, I want a good movie !). I am absolutely fine if it is ONE movie and we're done because the strengths of the story are really effective while the lows are thankfully disposable.
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devilkais In reply to DeepC [2017-09-19 13:01:31 +0000 UTC]
Not yet, it reaches us tomorrow.
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Ruyc In reply to devilkais [2017-09-09 17:41:50 +0000 UTC]
I'm sure of it, while the guy commits some big mistakes about research (the Super Mario Bros comics or the kids cartoons nowadays editorials are the biggest offenders), it was cause he preffered the kids, even mentioned that the adult segments ruined the suspense of the battle as it was shown already that they will all survive, and also told that he preferred the Kubrik version of the Shining
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devilkais In reply to Ruyc [2017-11-07 18:16:51 +0000 UTC]
What was his mistake about the Mario comics ? I don't have much reference on the plumber (just that Bowser in N64 is a much more threatening incarnation...)
The Kids cartoon nowadays... Yup. Even a blind guy can see that animation has gone down the shitter...
But yeah. IT is a friendship and coming of age story hence why only the first part is needed... WITHOUT the goddamn orgy.
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Ruyc In reply to devilkais [2017-11-07 19:04:49 +0000 UTC]
Mario comics:
-He said that it made the whole world feel comical and cartoony. Yeah, not like clouds and mountains having faces, the castle destroying moments in Mario World, the angry sun in Super Mario Bros 3, the wigglers getting angry when you ruin the flowers in their heads, the walking bombs, or Koopas using underwear under their shells was proof enough.
-he said Bowser is established as a comical villain. But in Super Mario Bros 3 he sends you a letter after you saved the seventh king telling you that he kidnapped princess Peach and laughts at you. the comical way he falls to the lava in the first Super Mario Bros game, his animation when you damage him in Super Mario World, his final lines in Super Mario 64 or his persona in pretty much all the rpgs.
-Princess Peach should be a more determined and smart character. Didn't he said that made Lois Lane still being kidnapped a lot more inconsistant and annoying once? Also, If you made the argument that she should help more, there are games where that happens: Super Mario rpg, 3d world, the paper mario trilogy and even in 3d land we see her trying to escape( and failing but still that can count).
-Mario is portrayed as being really determined. So rescuing all the time the princess as well as saving Mushroom Kingdom (as well as others actually) isn't evidence enough?
Kid cartoons:
-He said that cartoons nowadays have a simpler look. Yeah, except than in early 90s cartoons like "2 Stupid Dogs" and "Dexter's laboratory" did it before, so that's not from this era.
-Avatar the Last Airbender is not a cartoon from this era. it ended in 2008, you know, when he started submitting his videos (or some months before)
-Legend of Korra as a good example of lesbian love? that only happens at the end to please the shippers and is not a central plot.
-He only saw 4 cartoons (Gravity Falls, Legend of Korra, Adventure Time, Steven Universe) and considers he can tell kids cartoons are better than never before? for fuck sake, I have seen more and even still not sure if I can give a rating since I haven't seen them all (though It seems better than the latter 00s so far)
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CHCHcartoons [2017-09-09 02:29:12 +0000 UTC]
The problem with Stephen King is that he over complicates everything. Don't know why he had to include the Space Turtle or Macroverse. Hell, some of his other stories like Langoliers didn't need those little monsters. Just have the people on the plane try to back to the present time, before the future fades away. You don't need the little monsters, just have it be a literal race against time.
Okay, so I never read the original It book, but I do know the Spider was in the story. Though people don't tend to explain clearly how the book was better when it came to Pennywise's death. Instead of his true form being light from another dimension, just let it be a humanoid demon, something like this www.fightersgeneration.com/nz3… . And if you want to give it a Spider motif, cool. But don't try to over complicate things. Just have it be a shapeshifting demon, that takes a form of a clown that eats children. Keep it simple King. Hell, you kept Misery, Green Mile, Stand By Me, Carrie, and Shawshank Redemption simple, and people not only loved them, but they turned out to be great movies. No wonder why Krubrick had to change a lot of stuff in The Shining.
Also, the child orgy….. why King?
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Touch-Not-This-Cat In reply to CHCHcartoons [2017-11-12 13:31:19 +0000 UTC]
The Turtle represents distant, yet constant hope. Rarely seen, yet still occasionally found. Naturally, getting that across without making the character seem pointless would be a significant plot challenge. Most don't get it.
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DeepC In reply to CHCHcartoons [2017-09-23 21:43:35 +0000 UTC]
Ended up attempting the humanoid demon suggestion: My version of IT
Hope you like it.
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DeepC In reply to CHCHcartoons [2017-09-19 06:37:03 +0000 UTC]
Sorry to butt in, but what about a demon with glowing eyes that can shift into a vaguely spider-like light (Sort of like how sunbeams on the sun look like this 3.bp.blogspot.com/-grkT3DiFMsw… )?
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devilkais In reply to CHCHcartoons [2017-09-09 17:06:34 +0000 UTC]
Ah yes, the chainsaw Pacmen XD !
About the clown being a demon and seeing what voice they went with in the trailers for the new version, this is what it reminded me of static.comicvine.com/uploads/o… XD
That's exactly what the editors should have told him.
That's the question man...
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CHCHcartoons In reply to devilkais [2017-09-10 23:11:01 +0000 UTC]
It's something when The Violator's demon bug form (I know its not a bug demon, but that what it looks like to me. I don't know why though) makes more sense than the form in It. Hell, I came up with a different backstory for Pennywise, that makes his spider form make sense.
Pennywise (real name, Robert Grey) was a child serial killer that dresses as a clown. After he was executed, his ghost started to haunt and murder children by taking forms of what they fear the most. The reason why Pennywise transforms into a Spider is because he was afraid of spiders when he was alive. So basically, he uses his own fear to kill his victims. However, if Pennywise sees his Spider form in a reflection, he freaks out and his soul becomes weaker and weaker. Doesn't that sound better than a Space Spider Muppet that fights against a Cosmic Turtle?
The whole Cosmic Turtle thing should have been its own story. And seeing as how it was based off of Hindu mythology (at least from what I've searched) King could have made an entire story/stories based off of it. Kind of like how Marvel made stories out of Norse Mythology with Thor. No connections with other 100,000 page books, no complicated explanations, just a simple take on a mythology.
BTW since It's origin came from space, crashed on earth, and is a shapeshifting master of darkness, doesn't that remind you of Aku?
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devilkais In reply to CHCHcartoons [2017-10-11 12:14:50 +0000 UTC]
Speaking of Violator, I watched the new movie and MAN does Skarsgard play Pennywise LIKE the Violator ! mcfarlane.com/wp-content/uploa… He's not missing much XD It was a great movie though, it doesn't need a 2nd part ...
The backstory you have here is indeed tighter and better, I'd argue we just need to leave it vague enough. You know, as if it were a rumor that the kids investigate upon. Was he Bob Grey, was he not ? Possible. That doubt and unclear answer did wonders for the ending of the Shining (though the way the new movie ended was fairly strong !)
Possible. Been a while since I wanted Samurai Jack and the best Aku moment was when he kidnapped plenty of children so he could tell them fairy tales where he'd be the hero (while Jack is the Villain... XD )
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pasosDshinigami [2017-09-09 01:51:17 +0000 UTC]
I can agree and disagree with some bits, but the main idea I had with Pennywise was more on the lines of King's first attempt at making a Lovecraftian horror.
Failed in some bits, worked in others. When some parts were explained it lost some impact, but when it was a mystery that killed and manipulated it was fun.
My tip to King would've been to keep it a bit more mysterious and cut some bits and extend a few others, mostly ones to have Tim Curry chewing more scenery.
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devilkais In reply to pasosDshinigami [2017-09-09 02:17:23 +0000 UTC]
I guess cocaine does make writing overwrought (seriously though, King is more often than not cocked out when he writes !)
"Lovecraftian horror" is kind of tricky because even in Lovecraft's pulps, the concept is more tantalizing than the execution. He should have saved that later on , because It's biggest strength is the whole "Kids VS Boogeyman and world" vibe.
And I wish his editors gave him said tip... and cut out THAT scene.
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pasosDshinigami In reply to devilkais [2017-09-09 03:51:41 +0000 UTC]
He was a drunk, thus why many of his works have drunks.
True, but with the whole "devourer otherwordly" being, I get Lovecraft vibes. May be just me.
Which one? Frankly, I found Tim Curry too hilarious to cut anything with him out.
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devilkais In reply to pasosDshinigami [2017-09-09 17:09:00 +0000 UTC]
Write who you know eh ? XD
I don't deny the Lovecraft vibe you adress, it's just that they've always been more effective as concepts...
No no, ALL Pennywise scenes are to be kept. I am talking about the kids' orgy... THAT shit needs to go !
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pasosDshinigami In reply to devilkais [2017-09-09 21:16:07 +0000 UTC]
Pretty much.
True enough, but who knows? Maybe those concepts could work better.
Among other details that felt... just there. Like those you ask yourself:
what was the point of that bit?
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hotwar696 [2017-09-09 01:46:16 +0000 UTC]
Seems like your problem with IT are similar to your problem with Dracula but to a much lesser extent of course.
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devilkais In reply to hotwar696 [2017-09-09 02:00:51 +0000 UTC]
Not really. In Dracula, the novel becomes boring as sin the moment we leave Transylvania. And I don't give a shit about the characters who I wish got killed already ! (thank God for Coppola's take !)
Here, the kids are really damn good, Pennywise IS freaky and the atmosphere around is haunting... Then the fucking ending happens with THAT scene. It should have simply been a "childhood VS boogeyman" story, which I hope the new movie will be about (no need for part II, that will bite if it's anything like the book..)
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hotwar696 In reply to devilkais [2017-09-09 02:09:22 +0000 UTC]
Hence why I said to an lesser extent(Both novels start out good but go down hill).
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