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MatureMuscle In reply to clarkk10x7 [2019-12-03 16:14:08 +0000 UTC]

Musclemen tend to get a bad reputation by some.  And I agree there have always been men of muscular build.  Working men like masons, steel workers, sailors etc... When I went to Florence Italy in the Palazzo Vecchio (dont be impressed I just looked up the name) there is the replaca of Michelangelo's David.  The original nearby in the museum.  Dave is muscular however barely out of boyhood.  But in the same plaza is a statue if Hercules standing over his defeated foe.  A more mature man he is much more muscular yet not anything unrealistic or even like extreme bodybuilders if today.  Yet I remember the woman tour guide trashing the statue saying it looked like he (Hercules) looked like a bag of potatoes!  I wondered how she would react to a real mature working man.  I remember wishing there was some blue collar man nearby to walk up to her and see if she didn't  like seeing such a man in person....better yet if i coukd have been in such shape......then again maybe she was a lesbian.  What I saw in the statue of Hercules was a mature version of the "Vitruvian Man".  Perhaps not as athetic as the youthful "Il Davide", but in my opinion the very image of man.  Now I need to look up the artist of that sculpture.

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clarkk10x7 In reply to MatureMuscle [2019-12-03 20:25:17 +0000 UTC]

The fact remains (other than some magnificent geography, or the wonders of the starry universes above us), a finely muscular, symmetrically (and desirably large), well built man is the most beautiful of God's creations, especially if also well-endowed -- and even if not -- or an ugly or more plain one --
beats Mr. Face-Gorgeous any day.... (Or two million-trillion Sophia Loren/Elizabeth Taylors.  Much as I can appreciate them too, in their prime.)
But really think David was a bit beyond mature in M's rendering.
Though from my experience, woman aren't that interested in built men, so much as how successful/rich they are,
how much power they can wield.  I mean you see it over and over, pudgy walruses with hourglass figured women.
Can't imagine how she can stand being naked with such, (unless like Onassis, he is "Mr. Big" as he was commonly known, even 
by his employees).  Notwithstanding, I understand women are not overly thrilled either with a guy with more than nine inches; hurts them too much.
Maybe why well-endowed men do tend to want to be with their own kind, as well as they may be more easily accommodated for intercourse?
But I wouldn't know.  (Except it is mentioned in my novel, grin-grin.)
Many women also disdain big muscular men, because they know he's pretty well self-oriented, taking care of himself,
and it detracts from his focus on them.

Did you get Mann's SALVATION book?  Actually love the way he writes; only complaint is he is taking too long "to get there."
About 3/4 through Purgatory.  Not a fast-racy read, but still engrossing.  And almost no mistakes I noted.
(Wish I could say the same for mine, small though they might be.)

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dhandler19 In reply to clarkk10x7 [2019-11-27 12:54:25 +0000 UTC]

I think some artists did find muscle men to draw & photograph but even coded eroticizing the male form was looked at as deviant behavior and people were locked up. It probably had a chilling effect on a promising artist's career. 

i think Clifton's legit works as Stacson might interest you. He was a very good writer although as himself he didn't write sexually charged work like this.

I know in the fifties and before there was sense that all the guys that worked out to look good were gay and so real men avoided it. Schwarzenegger was a breakthrough for American culture because he exuded a completely confident sexuality that never questioned itself and made it okay for straight guys to work out. 

I think Steve Reeves was too gorgeous so that even straight guys questioned themselves around him and Reg Park never was well known enough.

Big muscles and tremendous strength are related but it has always annoyed me that the strongest guys usually don't have the biggest muscles. In my universe, big and strong occur together.

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clarkk10x7 In reply to dhandler19 [2019-11-27 21:23:37 +0000 UTC]

Mine, of course, would have singed the pages....
Think it was you who recommended Purgatory to me?
I think Mann is "a greatly expressive writer," but somehow Drew is not coming off quite "real" to me
as a character; (nor Ian's uncle, Sarge); and I kind of balked at the rimming scene.  Not for me!! (Until a far greater intimacy
had been established, nor did it quite make logical sense for the setting/time, or situation). 
Idea of tending/caring for Drew as the so called "victim" is superb, and I can see the conflicts there on Ian's part.
Would be super hard to have an enemy you are supposed to torture/get rid of, if you found him beautiful/desirable.
[I addressed some of that in Part Three of my novel, as a point of fact/danger/reality.] 

I'm enjoying the book, but it somehow is not gripping me enough to propel me enough to want to "urgently" keep turning
those pages.  Though I am naturally wanting to find out what happens next.  Maybe it's the too prolonged tension that is wearing thin.
[Course maybe my own work fails in some respects, too; the characters not "sharply" drawn enough, except by their physiques, making them
too much the same, or not distinct enough?  Hope not.  Only the readers could say.  Tried hard not to just have it as a muscle for 
muscle, self-absorbent sex festival. Never my intent at all.]

As far as Reeves goes, I heard vague rumors he may have been bi, younger; and his scenes with women in his films were pure
cardboard, and as if disinterested.  But everyone who knew him seemed to really like him, even once you got past his dazzling handsomeness.
(Henry Cavill strikes me the same way.  And only a very few Latin guys can hold a candle to him for looks on the planet.
Cavill is no physique wonderment, but he is plainly "fine," period, in shape or out. But have not heard a whisper about Henry being bi, at all.)

I think you meant to say, as I inferred, big muscles and tremendous strength are paramount joys to behold, observe, and know;
but not necessarily "without" the complimentary, shapely physique to match.  So many of those guys look more like walruses, than someone
I'd want to be intimate with.  And I feel if you are going to bother to work out, you should truly look like it was worth it.
Not just to hold a title of "I can lift this much, how about you?"  And end up looking like a semi, instead of a noticeable man.

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dhandler19 In reply to clarkk10x7 [2019-11-30 05:39:13 +0000 UTC]

Agreed on Mann. He is intense & thoughtful writer but sometimes goes too far too fast intimacy wise. I’m glad you are finding the book interesting but it is not perfect.

Agreed on Cavill and Reeves both guys manage to be as beautiful as a man can get without looking too pretty. Reeves of course had one of the greatest physiques on the planet as well. Cavill’s a better actor though!!

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clarkk10x7 In reply to dhandler19 [2019-11-30 08:23:16 +0000 UTC]

The odd thing, yes for his time, Reeves was remarkable;
only Mark Forest was actually more favorable (to me) -- kept his physique throughout all his films,
stunning man, for mass and symmetry, though shorter.  Reeves seemed to slack off, later.
But even today, many have physiques greater than Reeves; and they are not professional juicers.

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