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Dial-P-For-Placey In reply to FrostyWaters [2012-12-09 10:43:54 +0000 UTC]

I'm so glad I'm not alone on this.

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FrostyWaters In reply to Dial-P-For-Placey [2012-12-09 14:37:28 +0000 UTC]

Honestly loved the ideas for some of the 52 comics, but DC then showed they weren't gonna put any effort into it...

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Dial-P-For-Placey In reply to FrostyWaters [2012-12-09 15:45:06 +0000 UTC]

I'll try tohold back, because I could really rant the shit out of this topic. But to summarize most of what I would say, DC is really bad at accomplishing their goals they set out to do. I mean they wanted to add diversity, condence their universe and make it less confusing and to increase the size of their audience. And they did not accomplish a signle one of those goals. At all.

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FrostyWaters In reply to Dial-P-For-Placey [2012-12-10 02:11:51 +0000 UTC]

Oh please rant, I don't mind lol. Yeah, I agree. I'm still stupid enough to be excited about the new Captain Marvel comic though. Lol I can't help it, favorite hero since I was a little kid. XD

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Dial-P-For-Placey In reply to FrostyWaters [2012-12-10 08:08:56 +0000 UTC]

I agree. I still love a lot of the DC characters. And I've been excited about new comics from DC too. I've enjoyed a lot of the Nightwing comic. It's just I don't even know if I want to read more of them, considering how poorly most of the other comics were handled. I mean, within a year 10 of their comics were cancelled and even more of their ideas never even got off the ground. And the fact that most of my favorite characters either don't exist or have become completely different people, either through personally or just literally changing everything about the character ((COUGHTIMDRAKECOUGH)). I'm just left thinking "Why even bother getting attached to new characters or rebooted old characters, when everyone is written like an asshole and there's a chance that their series won't continue?" DC focused so much on changing because they felt like they were losing to Marvel. And they are. Because the people working there don't understand how to change things for the better. And they DEFINITELY do not know the difference between being sexually liberated and sleeping with everyone. That bugs me a lot.

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FrostyWaters In reply to Dial-P-For-Placey [2012-12-11 06:41:00 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, outside the big named heroes DC doesn't show a lot of respect for their charaters. Shame what they've done to Starfire, Powergirl, and the others. Also don't like the whole making Alan Scott gay just to try and get some gays readers, it's like making Superman black just so you can appeal to non-white readers. You want a hero gays can related too, then just make one! Poor Alan's family got erased from history because of those type of gimmicks.

Yeah, honestly though...is sex really need in comics? I personally don't need to see people getting it on every five pages to enjoy the story.
e

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Dial-P-For-Placey In reply to FrostyWaters [2012-12-11 11:53:34 +0000 UTC]

Well, the Scott Alan thing. It was misleading. They said they were going to make an iconic hero gay. And then it's Alan Scott. They made it sound like one of the more popular and well known comic figures were going to become queer. Which would have been nice. I mean, Wonder Woman's an amazon. It be cool to see a lesbian amazon. She is already an icon in the LGBT community. But if they wanted to increase their queer audience, why not just keep some of their already queer characters? I mean Renee Montoya doesn't exist anymore. She was an awesome character! And she was a lesbian. I really liked her, but apparently she was too diverse to be in the new diverse universe DC has made.

Sex is fine in comics. They've had plenty of tasteful sex scene in comics. But for ever tasteful one, there is 10 others that are basically porn. And, whatever. Fine. But DC made they mistake of thinking that a woman being sexually liberated meant that she had to have sex more often. And some even talk about how that sex has nothing to do with emotions. And that's what bugs me. Because that's so wrong. The women in comics should be able to have sex if they want. But they should also be able to say no. they should be able to be in both casual and committed relationships. But they don't get this. They don't get it at all.

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FrostyWaters In reply to Dial-P-For-Placey [2012-12-12 03:34:07 +0000 UTC]

Great...finger slipped and hit the reply button. Stupid phone! Lol

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FrostyWaters In reply to Dial-P-For-Placey [2012-12-11 14:00:45 +0000 UTC]

Nah, keep the straight characters straight. If something ain't broke don't fix it, ya know? However DC universe has characters like you said that they could be
using to reach out to gay readers if they truly wanted to do that. Personally though I think it's reaching out and keeping ALL readers interested regardless of their gender, beliefs, or whatever. The anwser is simple...use good writing to create great stories around your already beloved characters to keep readers wanting more.

If they did that then mebbe my favorites like Static, Blue Beetle, Icon, Cassandra Cain, and Booster Gold could get some more fans.

It's not a issue of whether sex is wrong to me, it's a issue of if it is actually needed in the story. So far I've not seen one moment in comics where sex scenes are actually needed. You want us to know if two charactets love each other, show us they love each other with romance. You want us to know the guy/gal we're reading about is a slut puppy, show it in the way they act and flat out treat the other sex. Nothing wrong with building up to sex, but we don't actually need like 3 pages of it to get the idea.

Woo, sorry for the rant but I enjoy talking about this with you. Hmm, did that sound creepy? Lol.

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Dial-P-For-Placey In reply to FrostyWaters [2012-12-12 01:18:39 +0000 UTC]

Well to be honest I think it would be good for DC to have a popular character be queer. On the other hand, considering how some of their writers handle issues like that, I would probably be completely offend if they tried. But then again, I think they handle Batwoman very well. So maybe. I don't know. It's not about whether they're broken by not being straight or gay or whatever they are. It's about realizing that a big chunk of their readers are apart of the LGBT community. And I'm not saying that they have to completely pander to one part of their demographic (even though they obviously almost 100% pander to their white, straight male audience), it's that it would be nice if their top line-up of characters was more diverse. Like they wanted. But all the top names are white and straight. And it's really goes against the goals that they wanted.

And it's very true that the most important thing should be the writing and the artwork. But lately both of those are very lacking. The characters are written right, for every one good artist that Dc has now, they have 10 more than are completely terrible, and the stories and backgrounds of the characters are not consistent at all, even among the current titles they have running. I mean, in a few of the first comics in the new 52 they said repeated that Time Drake was a Robin once. And then Lobdell say that he never was a Robin. I mean basic stuff like that... that just terrible. That writers can't even be bothered to read their co-workers comics to keep up with continuity.

Blue Beetle, Cass Cain and Booster Gold are also some of my favorite characters as well. But the wrote Jaime more like an asshole and that bothered me. Booster was already mature without even going through any life changes with his best friend Ted Kord (which he was supposed to be alive, but has still not made appearance yet, which also upsets me). And Cass doesn't even exist if I remember correctly. (btw I watched the cartoon of Static Shock, but have never read any of his comics)

I agree that we don't need 3 full pages of sex. That's when it because like porn. Maybe one or two panels and that's it. That's all we need to get the idea that these characters are banging. I know there are some comics where the sex scenes are a big part of it, and if that's someone thing well... then good for them. It's not really mine. Taking sex out of comics would be literally impossible. Americans have come to expect the hero of stories to get some at some point. Sex sells and therefore it's probably always going to be in comics. But as long as we have to have it in there, I would like to see it done tastefully and not just be cheese cake and fanservice. But it seems that as long as DC continues to devote most of their pandering to white, straight males, that won't be changing any time soon.

No it's fine. I enjoy a good discussion and hearing the point of view of someone else besides myself and my friends. So it's not creepy, to me at least. Heh.

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FrostyWaters In reply to Dial-P-For-Placey [2012-12-12 03:30:33 +0000 UTC]

See, I can't stand pandering to any group just to be PC. If I can use my friends and myself as a example, most of my buddies are black simply fanboy over Batman and Superman to highest level, they've always loved the character because they related and look up to their ideals. I'm the same, Jaime Reyes easily my favorite hero because I see myself in him and that makes mes admire and respect

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Dial-P-For-Placey In reply to FrostyWaters [2012-12-12 04:12:12 +0000 UTC]

Well this is true. They shouldn't pander to any specific group of people. But the comic industry believes that this is the majority of their readers and have openly stated that if they do things that they believe this demographic would not like, they feel like their sales would go down. And I'm not saying that every person needs to have a role model in comics that is exactly like them. If you're black, your favorite super hero doesn't also have to be black. Same if you're white and any other race or sexuality. People can like whoever they like for whatever reason. But I know from experiences, just having a comic book character have something in common with you can really help little kids. This is why, especially since homosexuality, bisexuality, transgender and everything under the LGBT community seems to be an issue with many people (even though I persoanlly don't understand why there is still so much hate for the LGBT community). I feel like if we could have super heroes be gay or bi or transgender and show them in a positive light, then the kids and teens that read comics would, like I did in my youth, have someone to look up to. And it's not that they can't look up to Superman or Batman, but at the same time they are so far from our ordinary world. Superman's the ideal perfection and Batman's super rich and super badass. We like them for being what they are. But at the end of the day, my favorite characters are still the ones I can relate to. I enjoyed seeing teenagers dealing with school work and relationship problems while still juggling being a super hero. I related to their life because it was closer to my own than Batman and Superman's lives. We need diversity. Like DC promised, but failed to give us.

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FrostyWaters In reply to Dial-P-For-Placey [2012-12-12 05:29:45 +0000 UTC]

Well, I agree with you about role model heroes. I always related to Jaime, Static, Wonder Girl(it's true), and Cyborg as a young adult because well...they had problems like most young people.

So question, who would be your top 10 male dc heroes?

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Dial-P-For-Placey In reply to FrostyWaters [2012-12-12 08:45:04 +0000 UTC]

Pfff... Hard question. Well it's in no order, but here they are...

Nightwing, Booster Gold, Blue Beetle (Ted Kord), Blue Beetle (Jamie Reyes), Flash (Wally West), Red Robin (Tim Drake), Robin (Damian Wayne), Kid Flash (Bart Allen), Superboy and Red Hood (Jason Todd).

I guess if we're counting Jason as a villain, then Batman would be the next runner up. Geez... picking out my favorites was tough. As you can see, I'm a fan of all the robins. Ha ha. Well how about you? What are you're top ten?

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FrostyWaters In reply to Dial-P-For-Placey [2012-12-12 11:05:22 +0000 UTC]

Picking just ten is pretty hard, and Robins are badass so it's easy understand why you love them. Jason to me is just a hero who gets a little some times lol

Okay so... 1. Captain Marvel, 2. Blue Beetle(Jaime Reyes), 3. Jason Todd, 4. Static, 5. Booster Gold, and Captain Atom, Cyborg, Beast Boy, Guy Gardner, and Superboy are too hard to rank lol.

So how about top 10 gals? Lol

OH! DID YOU SEE THE MAN OF STEEL TRAILER!?

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Dial-P-For-Placey In reply to FrostyWaters [2012-12-12 12:49:16 +0000 UTC]

Okay, ladies. Let me see. No order again.

Barbara Gordon, Donna Troy, Cassandra Cain, Stephanie Brown, Supergirl (Kara Zor-El), Starfire, Huntress, Catwoman, Batwoman and Big Barda. Not only Robins, but I have a Batgirl thing too ha ha. Okay. You're turn.

I did see it. It DEFINITELY looks better than the first trailer, but it kinda looks like Nolan's going to be remaking the Dark Knight... but with Superman. And the Dark Knight was good, but you know. I hope it turns out to be different enough from his Batman trilogy.

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FrostyWaters In reply to Dial-P-For-Placey [2012-12-12 18:25:55 +0000 UTC]

Woo for Donna Troy getting respect. Haha, now I can't get your remark about Supergirl out of my head. That's what she gets for dressing like a cheerleader lol.

Okay no order this time. Zatanna, Cass Cain, Power Girl, Wonder Girl, Stargirl, Supergirl, Fire, Raven, Starfire, and Wonder Woman of course. Lol lots of girl in those names.

Yeah, I'm wondering about that myself. I hope not because I want a Superman movie, damnit! Lol Only thing I don't like so far about the movie is General Zod's actor...

Speaking of Zoddy...pick some villians!

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Dial-P-For-Placey In reply to FrostyWaters [2012-12-12 20:23:53 +0000 UTC]

YAY! So happy to find another Donna fan! And I'm kinda happy her new design just went with a leotard... cause that micro shirt she was sporting. Ha ha. I just can't imagine it's good for flying.

As long as these actors can actually act, I'll be happy. Nolan normally picks good actors. But I mean that last movie... Luthter was the only good thing about it.

Okay villains. This will be tough cause I love villains so much. No order. Joker, Lex Luther, Harley Quinn, Poison Ivy, Harvey Dent, Sinestro, Mr. Freeze, Hush, Captain Cold and Catman.

And yours...

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FrostyWaters In reply to Dial-P-For-Placey [2012-12-13 03:01:55 +0000 UTC]

Wait, new design? I pretty outta touch with Donna. Lol

Yeah, I suppose acting is the most important and can overcome the minor details.

Oh wow, Catman.
Okay so baddies. Lex Luther, Black Adam, Sinestro, Superboy-Prime(Mary Sue!), Lobo, Solomon Grundy, The Joker, Cheshire, General Zod, Deathstroke, and Vandal Savage.

That list could easily change because I got a lot of favorites. Lol

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Dial-P-For-Placey In reply to FrostyWaters [2012-12-13 08:43:14 +0000 UTC]

Sorry, meant Supergirl's new 52 design.

What can I say, I think Catman's pretty hilarious. And I enjoy Gail Simone's writing.

I sort of feel bad though, because most of the things I enjoy from DC come from the Batman part of it. I feel like it's really the only thing of DC I really read. I'm more into Marvel Comics. Especially since the new 52. And I grew up on the Avengers because of my father.

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FrostyWaters In reply to Dial-P-For-Placey [2012-12-14 06:34:51 +0000 UTC]

Ah, the leotard thing?

I feel Catman should be played by Adam West. lol

Nah, nothing wrong with that. Honestly I enjoy the idea of what the DC characters could be more then I actually enjoy the comics. I see Captain Atom and Raven as two examples of this, so far I think DC has never used the characters in the right way. In the 52 so far Capt. Atom has pretty much been turned into a stupid rip off of that blue guy from Watchmen, and Raven is once again just a plot device for her father. I think personally Atom's interesting because he's not only a powerful hero but also a soldier, and that right there offers plenty to work with as a writer. Raven's backstory speaks for it's self, so much wasted possiblities.

Marvel fan, eh? Well maybe you could help me out with a crossover story I'm writing. See I'm letting my friends make the roster for the story by picking their favorite heroes, but they have to pick a male and female hero from Marvel and then do the same for DC. I think it'll make for a interesting story thanks to the roster we've got so far, but my buddies are running out of ideas lol.

Would you be interested helping out? I ask because you know your stuff.

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Dial-P-For-Placey In reply to FrostyWaters [2012-12-14 09:04:38 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, I agree with you there. Dc definitely does not really work with developing the characters. They mostly just out their characters into stories and most writers don't try to give them development or growth.

I could possibly help. Depends. I'm not the best at writing stories. Pretty much why I'm normally the artist for any stories I write with my friends. I guess I could try to help, but can't really promise anything.

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FrostyWaters In reply to Dial-P-For-Placey [2012-12-14 15:41:35 +0000 UTC]

Without a doubt.

Oh don't worry, I just want ya to pick four heroes. Pick anyone you want and I'll tell ya if they've been added to the roster already.

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Dial-P-For-Placey In reply to FrostyWaters [2012-12-14 20:14:53 +0000 UTC]

Okay. Um... four heroes. Let's see. How about Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch from Marvel and Blue Beetle (Ted Kord) and Booster Gold.

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FrostyWaters In reply to Dial-P-For-Placey [2012-12-15 03:04:50 +0000 UTC]

Scarlet and Booster are already on the roster. Lol Plus you gotta pick a girl. ^^͵

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Dial-P-For-Placey In reply to FrostyWaters [2012-12-15 08:42:33 +0000 UTC]

Whoops. Forgot. Well then, Ms./Captain Marvel from Marvel and Barbara Gordon from DC.

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FrostyWaters In reply to Dial-P-For-Placey [2012-12-15 14:52:32 +0000 UTC]

Alright, now with Scarlet and Quick on the roster I have no choice but to use Magneto as one of the villians lol. Should be interesting writing scenes with Cass and Barb too.

Still wanna pick Ted Kord?

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Dial-P-For-Placey In reply to FrostyWaters [2012-12-16 00:00:06 +0000 UTC]

YES! Ted needs to be in things.

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FrostyWaters In reply to Dial-P-For-Placey [2012-12-16 02:46:27 +0000 UTC]

Cool, already got some ideas for the four you picked. Glad some picked MS. marvel, yes...MS. marvel because there is only one Captain Marvel, god damnit! *Nod*

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Dial-P-For-Placey In reply to FrostyWaters [2012-12-16 07:28:24 +0000 UTC]

Oh I disagree. I don't like Mar-Vell at all and am super happy Carol took up the name.

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FrostyWaters In reply to Dial-P-For-Placey [2012-12-16 13:54:25 +0000 UTC]

Mar-vell, ha! I'm talking about the true Captain Marvel, Shazam!

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Dial-P-For-Placey In reply to FrostyWaters [2012-12-16 19:46:00 +0000 UTC]

Right always forget that there is a Captain Marvel in both Marvel and DC comics. Still. Carol's EARNED this promotion. So she's Captain to me.

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FrostyWaters In reply to Dial-P-For-Placey [2012-12-17 01:06:28 +0000 UTC]

Shame on you forgetting the greatest hero e'er! Lol Ms. Marvel is a underated character, no doubt there.

Wow Wolverine may not make the roster for my story. It's kinda shocking nobody picked him yet.

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Dial-P-For-Placey In reply to FrostyWaters [2012-12-17 01:25:15 +0000 UTC]

I am not a fan of Wolverine. Never really have been. Though the only times I've enough him is when he's been paired up with someone of whacky adventures. Alone he's just really small, hairy and angry with no one to off set that.

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FrostyWaters In reply to Dial-P-For-Placey [2012-12-17 07:31:31 +0000 UTC]

Lol Poor meat shield. Yeah, I hate the whole concept of the X-men all together, so I won't be mean and rant about it. Honestly, Ghost Rider is probably the only big name Marvel hero I'm fond of. I love Iron man but that's because of the movies. Warmachine is pretty great though, he's like Tony but you get a soldier and bigger guns. Lol I'm quite fond of the miltary if you can't tell.

Hulk and Thor are fun too. Lol

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Dial-P-For-Placey In reply to FrostyWaters [2012-12-18 20:58:01 +0000 UTC]

Eh... I like the X-MEN, but I don't really care for any of them individually, except for Storm. Love her. And I pretty much love every person that has been an Avenger. Like 90% of the heroes that have been on that team at least. I love tony very much. I have always felt so bad since he's like Marvel's punching bag. But Captain America has been my favorite since I was a child.

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FrostyWaters In reply to Dial-P-For-Placey [2012-12-18 21:50:23 +0000 UTC]

O'rly, Steve Rogers, eh? Yeah, you're a big Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch too, right?

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Dial-P-For-Placey In reply to FrostyWaters [2012-12-19 02:22:22 +0000 UTC]

Yup. All three of those people have been my favorites since I was a kid. I have A LOT of favorites in Marvel nowadays though. Now that I read more than just Avengers.

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FrostyWaters In reply to Dial-P-For-Placey [2012-12-19 04:59:05 +0000 UTC]

Why do love those three so much?

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Dial-P-For-Placey In reply to FrostyWaters [2012-12-19 06:42:58 +0000 UTC]

Well Cap was someone I looked up too. I wanted to be like him when I was young. He was small and weak all his life and no matter the hardship that he faced, he continued to be a good person. He didn't let the terrible world make him bitter and awful. Also he was an artist before joining the army/super soldier project. I'm pretty sure I love the Scarlet Witch so much, because she was my father's favorite character. So he influenced me to love her as well. And because I read a lot of Avengers and Scarlet Witch stuff, Quicksilver was there a lot as well. He was sarcastic and funny and he was a good brother to his sister. He's also probably one of the first of the so-called "asshole" characters that I liked. I tend to like characters that try desperately hard to emotionally stunt themselves and come off as being feeling-less and snarky and carefree. Also their dad, Magneto is one of my favorite Marvel villains.

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FrostyWaters In reply to Dial-P-For-Placey [2012-12-19 13:57:08 +0000 UTC]

It's funny, I never really liked Steve much, which is weird since he's a soldier and his
hero name is awesome, but I found a lot respect for him because of what you just said. I was shocked by the amount of people, famous people even, who look up to him and idolize him as their personal hero. He really gets young people to believe in themselves, so all I got say to that is... You the man, Captain America! That's what a true hero is all about!

Heh, sounds like your father's opinion is something you hold in high regard, very cool. Haha, who doesn't love "asshole" characters(Jason Todd, plz?) and Magneto is without a doubt one of the best Marvel villians.

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Dial-P-For-Placey In reply to FrostyWaters [2012-12-20 08:13:37 +0000 UTC]

Well, I'm always glad to help spread the Cap love. And it really makes me happy to hear how many people he does actually inspire, like myself.

I guess you can say that. Mostly any kind of family bonding was spent with some type of media involved. So a lot of my families tastes were imposed on me as a kid. Some stuck and some didn't. But the recent stuff I've read with Wanda has been amazing. Loved me some House of M, Children's Crusade and Avengers vs. X-MEN.

Yeah, it's probably why I love Jason too. I don't know exactly why I love characters like that, but I do. If there is an "asshole" character in a movie or book or something like that, there is probably an 90% chance that I'll love them.

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FrostyWaters In reply to Dial-P-For-Placey [2012-12-20 19:03:48 +0000 UTC]

He's a great role model.

Avengers vs X-men...go Avengers!

Haha, speaking of the bat family, why is Tim your favorite?

Woo, saw The Hobbit yesterday.

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Dial-P-For-Placey In reply to FrostyWaters [2012-12-20 22:20:49 +0000 UTC]

Well... to be honest Tim isn't my favorite. I love him SOO much, but Dick is actually my favorite. It's really close though. I love Tim cause he's so very much like Bruce and would make a perfect Batman. But he's also capable of being social.... sometimes. He has a bit of a stalker problem. And he gets obsessive over things. But other than those creepy qualities he's great! Ha ha. But I love Dick because he's literally this ray of sunshine thrown into the grumpy bunch that is the batfamily (Stephanie is also and that is also why she a favorite of mine). Dick's life is basically the same as Bruce's and yet he was able to come out of it without being the dark, broody introvert that Bruce became. Even though that same dark, broody introvert raised him. I love how he taunts the bad guys and shows off his acrobat moves constantly. He's a nice change, since everyone else in the batfamily is so screwed up.

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FrostyWaters In reply to Dial-P-For-Placey [2012-12-21 01:19:27 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, honestly Dick's will power is pretty amazing. That's not exactly the right word, all the bat kids have Iron wills.

Sigh, now I'm sad...Cass deserves so much more respect then DC gives her.

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Dial-P-For-Placey In reply to FrostyWaters [2012-12-21 03:54:24 +0000 UTC]

Yeah they all have very different versions of iron wills. It's fun to see how different all of them turned out considering they were all partially raised by the same guy.

I love Cass a lot too. And she really does deserve a lot more respect. I really enjoyed her as Batgirl and the times she was with Young Justice. I think her Tim would make the best duo crime fighters ever.

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FrostyWaters In reply to Dial-P-For-Placey [2012-12-21 08:55:22 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, it's interesting how that can happen.Dick and Jason are probably the best example of the same roots spreading into different directions.

It's funny how popular she was as Batgirl, but she still got kicked to the curb in favor of Ms. brown. DC just doesn't seem to have the same faith in the character that fans do. Heck, in the Young Justice cartoon they skipped her up completely lol. Anyway, I agree with you, Tim and Cass would kick ass fighting crime together. Tim seems to understand her better then most people and knows how to get through to the little ninja bat. Lol

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Dial-P-For-Placey In reply to FrostyWaters [2012-12-21 12:19:55 +0000 UTC]

Not that I wasn't happy that Stephanie got to come back, but I was a little upset that Cass was pushed out of the spot light. It seems like DC feels that if they give too much focus on more than woman at a time, the fans just won't read their comics or something. But I really liked the friendship between Cass and Steph. I think they could also make a fun crime fighting team of their own. But DC does that a lot. Either doesn't ever put people together, or if they do form teams nowadays, they break up very quickly. I was super disappointed when Damian and Dick had to stop being the dynamic duo. They were a fun pair and offset each other well.

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FrostyWaters In reply to Dial-P-For-Placey [2012-12-21 22:11:01 +0000 UTC]

Ha, too many women together could be dangerous! Haha, I feel people have become divided into Team Cass or Team Steph, a lot of hate between those fans with no sign of it getting better.

Dick and Damian just seems like the perfect opposites team up.

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