Zetsugos-K In reply to Teoma-The-Naraotor [2014-09-02 16:34:11 +0000 UTC]

She only does paypal commissions

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Teoma-The-Naraotor In reply to Zetsugos-K [2014-09-02 18:23:00 +0000 UTC]

Oh ok thx  

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Zetsugos-K In reply to Teoma-The-Naraotor [2014-09-02 21:50:43 +0000 UTC]

You're welcome, and I know it kind of sucks, but, she can't pay bills with points

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Teoma-The-Naraotor In reply to Zetsugos-K [2014-09-03 16:10:18 +0000 UTC]

Yeah I know but I have restriction in my bank account thus Paypal is not allowed for me.

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Feliane In reply to GaleforceRin [2014-08-26 18:23:23 +0000 UTC]

Do you know that it becomes very difficult to find artists with correct prices, correct deadlines, serious manners and so on ? So please, think that most of people on DA who buy commissions, like me, are not professional but only passionate amateurs with small budget.

I am always stunned when I see people giving such advice when they are not used to buy commissions… Are you ?

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Revur In reply to Feliane [2014-08-26 20:46:35 +0000 UTC]

Are you seriously stunned that artists shouldn't work under minimum wage?

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Feliane In reply to Revur [2014-08-27 07:19:18 +0000 UTC]

I am only stunned by people who say "increase your prices !" as long as they are not clients of this artist This is not their business. Every artist is free to choose his/her prices and I guess Doubleleaf is able to chose herself her prices.

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Revur In reply to Feliane [2014-08-27 13:19:38 +0000 UTC]

It has absolutely nothing to do with being a client or not! Art is a luxury for clients, but should be something an artist can live off, and one artist underpricing her work can actually hurt every other artist because it brings the prices down overall. Especially when a lot of artists are doing it, because they don't know how much to price their work at, or because people tell them that their work isn't worth that much (Surprise, it is!), or because they see people better than themselves taking less for their art.
Where I come from, experts are paid more than people new in the line of business, and someone with the level of skill like Doubleleaf should be able to set her prices higher, but maybe she isn't, because people before her have already under priced their art, giving clients the expectation that art at this level isn't worth what it actually is.

And frankly, if it isn't our business to tell her that she should be able to earn more than that, it isn't your business to tell us not to It doesn't harm you, since you're a client. You can just choose not to buy art you can't afford. Artists will have to change to burger-flipping because it's not worth it.

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Feliane In reply to Revur [2014-08-27 15:08:26 +0000 UTC]

It has absolutely nothing to do with being a client or not! => I totally agree ! The artist is free to choose his prices by himself, he is the only one to be comfortable with that. It is why I will never understand people saying “increase your prices !” (especially when they are not concerned >__< ).

By the way, a given price can be too expensive for a given client and underestimated for another client. But who can say that this price is correct or not ? Only the artist ! When the artist thinks he is underestimated, then he simply increases his prices... Doubleleaf proposes commissions since years, I would be very surprised to learn that she does not know how to fix her prices…

And don’t forget that most of commissions are done for non professional people.

And yes, I think it is my business to tell people who say “increase you prices !” that this is not their business, especially if they do not commission this artist. Of course I chose to commission or not to commission such artist : like every client, I have my money limits. If one day Doubleleaf is too expensive for me, I will commission elsewhere. It already happened of course with some other artists. Let the artist decide by himself, he is not blind, he can see everywhere on DA what are prices in each country, for each level of art and technique.

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Revur In reply to Feliane [2014-08-27 15:58:02 +0000 UTC]

"But who can say that this price is correct or not ?"
Like YanareKu explained, unless Doubleleaf is really fast, she will earn less than minimum wage. And a lot of artists do this, meaning that art is worth less than it should be. It should be worth at least minimum wage. I think we should urge artists to at least work for minimum wage, because what is the reason not to encourage people to at least get minimum wage?

It is their business, especially if they are in the same line of work.
And honestly, in art, I don't see what you mean with non professional people. Non professional people shouldn't get their art cheaper just because they don't have a company in their back. It really shouldn't affect the artists pay.

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Feliane In reply to Revur [2014-08-27 16:34:11 +0000 UTC]

Minimum wage… for a professional. But as I said, here on DA commissions are the most for non professional clients. If artists use professional prices, be sure that on DA, they will find very very few clients. It is not the first time I see such questions of wages… but I think people forget where we are.

I am a non professional woman, just a hobbyist. I buy commissions for my pleasure, not for business, so I could not pay professional prices because they are too expensive for me. Artists know that, so, usually, they have 2 types of prices :

=> Non professional / non commercial prices, for people like me

=> Professional / commercial prices for professional clients or clients who want to do business with their commissions

Some artists have only professional prices. But most of artists have both types of prices, fortunately.

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nekoguy4444 In reply to Feliane [2015-03-13 02:41:42 +0000 UTC]

yeah, it's not like you can just charge more and make more money, you're right, if she were to increase her prices then she probably wouldn't get as many, things like fanarts are also virtually worthless because of the copyright already on the character.

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Feliane In reply to nekoguy4444 [2015-03-13 08:10:01 +0000 UTC]

Thank you a lot for your opinion ^^ The limits for every client are not the same, some are much money, some have very few money, but it seems understandable that the more the prices increases, the less clients come when it is about non commercial commissions...

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Revur In reply to Feliane [2014-08-27 18:37:12 +0000 UTC]

Are you saying that minimum wages are for professionals, or that deviantartist shouldn't get minimum wage?

Non commercial prices still shouldn't be under minimum wage.
Commercial prices are more expensive because they are used commercially. They use the art to promote products or some other jazz, and they will use the art many places. Of course it's more expensive, but that doesn't mean that minimum wage should start there.

I seriously don't get why you are against people telling her that her art is worth more than what she's selling it at. Like, sshhhh, don't tell her, it's supposed to be a secret?? Are you afraid that she'll set her prices up, even though you say she's fully in her own right to set her prices?

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Feliane In reply to Revur [2014-08-28 07:40:07 +0000 UTC]

No, of course, minimum wages are OK for both professional and non professional. I am just saying that prices are usually quite different for professional clients (editors…) and random people like me who do not make business. Most of artists make the difference on DA.

Yes, I am against people saying “increase your prices !” (and the ones who say that are never clients !) and, trust me, many other clients think the same but do not dare to say it in public. I am not afraid at all, the artist is free to do what he wants, of course, and I am free to commission other artists. But this is just seriously borying to see non concerned people giving such advice to an artist who is able to choose by himself his prices. Doubleleaf and others are not newbies, they know how to do and calculate and we do not know all their criteria. Of course, for many fans, prices are never high enough because they love their art, I can understand that. But if prices grow too high, clients will buy elsewhere or buy less commissions. Some artists choose to increase their prices even if they have few clients, it is OK for them. Some other choose to lower their prices to have more clients. It is up to them, not to the fans of the clients.

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Revur In reply to Feliane [2014-08-28 12:40:25 +0000 UTC]

Artists are not non concerned people, I've already told you how it affects everyone else.
And again, are you afraid that she'll raise her price simply because someone told her that her art is worth more? Maybe she takes it to heart, and raises her prices. In that case, she still decides her own prices. Maybe she just takes it as a compliment, that someone thinks her art is worth a lot of money. In any case, it isn't negative for her, and I don't understand why you want people not to tell her.
I could say outright that I think her art is worth soooo much more, because I'm a huge fan, and I'd gladly pay what I know is a lot of work, because I'm an artist myself, and the only people it could affect negatively are the people who don't want to pay minimum wage for art.

Edit: But maybe we should stop here, before getting stopped for spamming her journal

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Feliane In reply to Revur [2014-08-28 12:49:10 +0000 UTC]

You are true, it is better to stop, because we will never agree. Thank you anyway for the debate

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GaleforceRin In reply to Feliane [2014-08-26 19:08:23 +0000 UTC]

Let me break it down like this.  A Full-body, colored commission from doubleleaf without a background is currently 48 USD.  If Doubleleaf spends 7-8 hours on a full-body, full-color piece, she's making around $6 or $6.86 bucks an hour.  Depending on where she lives, that's drastically lower than minimum wage. If it takes a certain amount of time for her to complete something, she could literally make more money flipping burgers for you than making you art.  Is that really what her skills are worth to you?  If you like like talented artists who adhere to their deadlines, have serious manners, and give you a quality work, than wouldn't you want to pay them more than they would earn serving people hamburgers or working a retail job? 

They are creating a custom piece of artwork made just for you.  If you enjoy their work, you should save up your money over time until you have enough money to pay the artist what they are worth.

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Feliane In reply to GaleforceRin [2014-08-27 07:42:06 +0000 UTC]

You calculate as a professional, you forgot that on DA, most of clients are not professional and have small budgets. Many professional artists work with professional prices for editors, companies and so on, and also make commissions to train, with lower prices, because professional prices are too high for clients there (yes, there are also hungry artists who do commissions to pay invoices, I know !).

I do not think like you about burgers and so on. Yes, the location is important, USA and Indonesia have not the same wages of course. But Doubleleaf and other artists are able to choose themselves their prices, clients never say “I want to pay xx dollars less or more !”. And, of course, people like you who are not clients, are really incredible to dare to say “increase your prices !”.

I am commissionning since 6 years, more than 200 artists on DA. In some cases, when I feel the prices are very cool, I offer bonus in dollars or euro. But, on the opposite, when the prices increase too high, I stop commissioning. It happened recently with some artists I like very very much. They still find clients… but these clients must be more rich than me

So in conclusion, I only say : let the artists chose themselves their prices ! They know how to calculate them, depending on many criteria. It is not the business of clients and especially non-clients.

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GaleforceRin In reply to Feliane [2014-08-27 08:11:42 +0000 UTC]

We are going to just have to agree to disagree, Feliane.  I don't really feel very comfortable starting an argument of any kind in someone else's journal.  I said my piece. You said yours.  We're both entitled to our thoughts and feelings.

What I said was meant for doubleleaf and in hindsight, I should have probably just sent her a note instead of posting in her journal comments.  Sorry for sparking this debate, everyone.

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Feliane In reply to GaleforceRin [2014-08-27 08:17:35 +0000 UTC]

No problem, it was also an interesting debate and "commissions" is a subject very precious to me ^^ We all stay polite and respectful. Thank you for your opinion

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Zaphodiop In reply to GaleforceRin [2014-08-27 04:10:39 +0000 UTC]

YanareKu  You are absolutely right!  It takes a long time to come up with quality artwork for clients and some of that time is possibly even being taken away from jobs elsewhere, or time with family, friends, etc.  If a client wants a commissioned piece, then they need to set aside some money for it.  I've been saving up a long time to get a commission from doubleleaf because I really love her work and want to support her passion!

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TheKillerAngel In reply to GaleforceRin [2014-08-26 19:50:42 +0000 UTC]

I agree with YanareKu . Doubleleaf could easily charge a lot more and still get customers, since her work is at a professional level.

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Feliane In reply to TheKillerAngel [2014-08-27 07:42:40 +0000 UTC]

Are you a client ? Are you used to commission ?

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TheKillerAngel In reply to Feliane [2014-08-27 15:23:20 +0000 UTC]

Yes, I've commissioned other artists before.

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Feliane In reply to TheKillerAngel [2014-08-27 16:34:51 +0000 UTC]

So please ask them to increase their prices when you commission them again ^^ (I am kidding)

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TheKillerAngel In reply to Feliane [2014-08-27 21:48:38 +0000 UTC]

I've always paid whoever I've commissioned at industry rates.

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Feliane In reply to TheKillerAngel [2014-08-28 07:25:18 +0000 UTC]

Me too, and I even offer bonus when the prices were quite low

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Atlantima In reply to Milkycat [2014-08-26 17:44:27 +0000 UTC]

It says "Will remain open for about a week." on her profile.

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Thorn-Publications In reply to Thorn-Publications [2014-08-26 13:41:09 +0000 UTC]

Phew!  Email sent! <3

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