HOME | DD
EnderoftheEnd — UT Shipping Pride Month Day 3 - Asgoriel
#toriel #undertale #asgore #asgoriel #asgore_dreemurr #ut_shipping_pride_month
Published: 2016-09-05 09:12:48 +0000 UTC; Views: 1485; Favourites: 39; Downloads: 4
Redirect to original
Description
no i didn't do this late I just forgot to post it shhand i tried to do a colour palette thing im not proud of how it turned out but eeeehhh
Even though Alphys ships these two together, they're never gonna re-marry lmao. They're too dysfunctional together. Toriel hates him and I can't blame her lol. Like yeah Asgore's a nice guy but he killed six kids because he was too afraid to do what he knew he had to do, and that's what got him killed in the neutral run. I could go more in-depth but eh. I have a headache and nobody would read it anyway.
((ALSO YEAH I MISSED PAPYTON DAY SHH I'M SORRY I WAS AT MY DAD'S HOUSE))
1: Alphyne (Alphys/Undyne) enderoftheend.deviantart.com/a…
2: Frans (Frisk/Sans) enderoftheend.deviantart.com/a…
3: Asgoriel (Asgore/Toriel)
4: Papyton (Papyrus/Mettaton) enderoftheend.deviantart.com/a…
5: Soriel (Sans/Toriel) enderoftheend.deviantart.com/a…
6. Muffeton (Muffet/Mettaton) enderoftheend.deviantart.com/a…
7. Salphys (Sans/Alphys) enderoftheend.deviantart.com/a…
8. Friskriel (Frisk/Asriel) enderoftheend.deviantart.com/a…
9. Undyrus (Undyne/Papyrus) enderoftheend.deviantart.com/a…
10. NicePants (Burgerpants/Nice Cream Guy) enderoftheend.deviantart.com/a…
11. Sansby (Sans/Grillby) enderoftheend.deviantart.com/a…
12. Grillster (Grillby/Gaster) enderoftheend.deviantart.com/a…
13. RG01 and RG02
14. Alphore (Alphys/Asgore)
15. Free Ship Day (Undertale’s Anniversary! Celebrate all your favorite ships today, including ones I didn’t list)
16. Shyrablook (Shyren/Napstablook)
17. Mettalphys (Mettaton/Alphys)
18. Charisk (Chara/Frisk)
19. Grillfet (Grillby/Muffet)
20. Papyrisk (Papyrus/Frisk)
21. Mettablook (Mettaton/Napstablook)
22. Charans (Chara/Sans)
23. Mettasans (Mettaton/Sans)
24. FriskKid (Frisk/Monster Kid)
25. Sanster (Sans/Gaster)
26. Papchara (Papyrus/Chara)
27. Dog Marriage (Dogamy and Dogaressa)
28. Chariel (Chara/Asriel)
29. KingDings (Asgore/Gaster)
30. Papysans (Papyrus/Sans, aka fontcest)
Related content
Comments: 14
Okay, the art is really nice and I get that this is old but UGH I have to point this out. Asgore DID NOT FREAKING KILL SIX KIDS. We don't know for sure if he killed them all or if they're all kids. And did you forget that Toriel abandon her entire kingdom when they needed her most and refused to take any sort of action to help her kingdom? You're making it seem like this was all Asgore's fault when Toriel was also a selfish bitch. I could go on, but a couple people already said what I needed to say.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I mean, you coulda stopped at "this is old" before you posted this comment.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Hello! I know this is rather old, but I couldn't help and admire your art!
Now, of course, you have your own opinion, we all do! So no worries about what I am about to say! Just a bunch of knowledge I would like to share!
Judging by your description, you think Asgore killed the previous humans?
Well, I thought the same, until I realized . . .
1. The Royal Guard, most likely, were the ones to kill the humans.
( I mainly said 'most likely', because it was never implied whom really killed the humans, and the only specific information was it wasn't Asgore. )
2. The only time Asgore would've killed a human, is when you, Frisk, were to encounter him, because Frisk befriended every other monster first.
Asgore was thinking the other monsters would do so ever since he and they declared war on humanity, as they did with the other humans.
3. Toriel's thought of what Asgore should've done rather than declaring 'every human that falls down here must die', would've lead to Asgore dying.
Afterall, it's one monster against humanity at that rate.
4. Really, Toriel doesn't hate Asgore. More likely his actions and decisions. She would be too kind to hate someone for trying to do the right thing.
5. Believe it or not, this may blow your mind, but Toriel and Asgore never really divorced. It was only said that Toriel 'ran away into the ruins to protect humans who'd fall down'. That's why everyone thought Toriel was his EX, because she left the castle.
And, as Toriel and Asgore are over the age of 50, MUCH older than every other monster, they're mature enough to know eachother's true intentions : Restoring hope to the underground.
'Course, that's just me being a huge nerd about Undertale and stalking Toby Fox's socialmedias, hahah. But yeah! No need to listen to me.
I'm just trying to help you understand Asgore and Toriel a little more. Think of them however you want, though! We're our own people. ^^
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Hey, thanks for the long comment, but this is rather old! (Only by a few months, but still enough for me to have changed my opinion on this). I appreciate the time you put into writing this, but I'm not looking for a long discussion on this post... It's easily exhausting for me to have to write that much.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Yes, I could tell you've changed, but it also concludes for the other people looking at this and thinking the same you used to.
The compliment was for you, and the main comment was for those who didn't understand Asgore's true intentions.
Besides, I also dislike discussions heavily. I'm more of a "sleep-deep" person.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Ah okay, thank you! I'd change the description, but I don't really want to stare at this drawing for much longer than I have to. I'm not particularly proud of it.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Hahah, no need to change the description, friend.
Anyway, I am glad we had this nice conversation. See ya!
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Several things:
The game makes it clear that monsters power and vitality comes from their emotional state. In short, monsters can (and did) DIE from despair. Asgore giving them hope was
the only way to prevent his people's extinction.
Toriel's 'solution' (leaving with one soul and picking and choosing targets) would have just led to another war with the humans (as Asriel points out). More to the point, Humans A. don't tend to react well to monsters killing their kind (no matter WHO they are). B. Wouldn't react well to a goat man, wielding a pitchfork, with fire powers, coming from underneath the earth to collect souls (sound familiar?).
She is as guilty as she claims he is: She knew what he was doing, had the resources to either stop him or inform someone else to stop him and she did nothing. She knew the subjects were coming down the same hole. She could've blocked it, but instead she did nothing. Instead she forced them to go through a deathmaze. When she was clearly capable of safer alternatives (escorting them herself to safety). Given that she and Gorey were pound for pound stronger than anyone in the Underground, no one would dare oppose her. The truth is....she knew no one else had a solution.
The only indication that there were *any* children among those humans was the bearer of the toy knife (and that one fell in the Ruins where Asgore avoided going leading us to question who and how that death happened) . The rest of the items described older subjects, young adults. Furthermore, there is alot to suggest that several of the fallen humans were absolute murderous pieces of garbage (the descriptions and lore on several pieces of equipment seem to suggest that the Gunslinger and the Ballerina were on a genocide run and had to be put down).
Also, put yourself in the timeframe: the humans just killed a member of the royal family (hell, they might've even believed the humans killed BOTH Chara and Asriel) in cold blood and have threatened to kill more (per Gerson) if they saw another monster near their village. What would've happened if Asgore would've let it slide? The game already points to the answer in one of the neutral endings: Toriel is dethroned by an angry, vengeful populace and sent into exile, while her people prepare for war with renewed bloodlust under the grip of a leader far more vicious than she. Same thing would've happened to Asgore. Damned if he do. Damned if he dont.
Also, he's not trying to kill you anymore than Toriel is. He knows there is no way out for you unless you take his soul. So he decides to sacrifice himself for you. During the fight it's clear he's holding back, not attacking you all out (despite being precise enough to hit the mercy button, he avoids looking at you and seems to be swinging wildly to try and avoid hitting you. Also with his stats, his damage should be able to drop you in one shot). Also, if Flowey is gone, he will commit suicide at the end of your fight if you try to spare him, just so YOU can be free. He is trying to get you to kill him so that his people will still have hope AND you will be saved. Even at the expense of his own life.
On top of that, Asgore KNOWS about the Resets. He knows about the existence of the player as an outside alien horror that treats killing monsters/sparing them like a game. Something that only he, Sans, Frisk, and Flowey know. He knows that in the end only this outside force can save them/damn them. That would definitely be something that changes ones perspective. A perspective Toriel was not privy to.
The point is, the big guy was stuck in a no win scenario and no one in the Underground had any answers (not even Toriel, as the neutral endings show, who was supposed to be the tactical genius behind the throne). Far from 'spineless' or a 'coward', Asgore may be the perfect example of a Byronic Hero: a champion in a damned world, flawed by his sins, but noble in his brokenness, a man who does not delude himself by calling himself a hero and accepting of others contempt, trying desperately to save others even though he expects it will cost him everything he holds dear (up to and including his soul).
-------------------------------
Anyway...
Very beautiful work (the detailing on Asgore's open eye is especially haunting). Bravo!
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Wow. Thanks for putting that much thought into a comment on one of my posts. I really appreciate it
It wouldn't have made a difference to the amount of hope his people had if he had done what Toriel said, because he'd still be getting seven SOULs to break the barrier. Just a lot sooner. Granted, I think Toriel could have told him to do that a lot earlier BEFORE he declared war on the humans. Her mistake, I suppose.
Toriel's solution was said to be peaceful, I'm pretty sure - but I haven't played Undertale in months (My laptop audio's broken, so I can't play it right now. It's not worth playing without the sound and music imo) so correct me if I'm wrong, but that would imply that she meant to collect SOULs from a graveyard rather than killing six more humans.
She had tried to stop the humans from leaving by caring for them in the Ruins, but I think she also knew that she couldn't force them to stay; that they were still their own beings and had their own decisions to make, even if it led to their deaths, and even she knew that. Seeing it happen six times, and the fact that one more SOUL would allow the barrier to be destroyed, would have finally led her to make the decision to destroy the door leading to the rest of the underground, but Frisk managed to convince her to let them leave.
When the player is in Toriel's home, in their room, there's a shoebox with 'kids shoes of varying sizes'. This is enough evidence to suggest that those who came down there were all kids. Plus, an adult would know wiser than to go up to a mountain everyone says you'll never return from. It's never said that the location of where the items are left are where they died. The Patience SOUL, as most likely a young child, might have just lost their knife and ribbon there, or left it there on purpose, but Toriel does mention that every human that comes through always leaves the Ruins and dies. Even if Asgore wasn't the one to kill them, he was responsible for it in the long run. There's nothing to suggest that any of the fallen humans did a genocide run. They might have killed a FEW monsters, and gained a few LOVE, perhaps out of self defense or impulse, but you'd reckon that monsters would be a lot more scared of the player if genocide were the case.
I doubt any monsters believed that the humans killed both Chara and Asriel, because that would require a human going through the barrier to kill them. And if that happened, the human would surely be executed, and they'd already have one human SOUL, and they wouldn't have to chase after Frisk. The monsters in New Home tell the player what exactly happened, meaning that all monsters have an understanding (albeit not... in-depth towards Chara's case) of how Asriel and Chara died. The populace was most likely bloodlusted after Undyne took control because any ending that requires Undyne taking control is one where you HAVE to kill monsters to get to. Undyne absolutely hates you if you kill even one monster, no matter who it is, and refuses to befriend you at all - and feels betrayed if you already did befriend her. So of course if she sees Toriel trying to make peace with the humans, Undyne would overthrow her and lead the monsters to violence against humans. So, it's more because of the player's decisions that that happens, not the anger of the monsters themselves. Papyrus even mentions in the phonecall that Undyne wants to lead a party to personally hunt you down.
This is a situation that's more about what the player theorises, so there's no clear answer to this (as are many things in Undertale. God damnit, Toby) but Gerson does mention, if you're in a Geno route, that he and Asgore agreed that trying to get to the surface world would be pointless, because the humans would kill them anyway. So, Asgore is maintaining the image of trying to free the monsters to give them hope, because he's scared and guilty of what would happen when he receives the seventh SOUL. He would HAVE to break the barrier at that point, but he knows that that would bring war. The death of seven humans, plus an eighth to put him on that path, was required to free his people. If the humans knew that (and they probably do, through folklore) they would be even more inclined to kill the monsters. Asgore has to stick between his desire to give the people hope and his need to keep them safe from the humans by keeping them underground, all because he didn't go with Toriel's plan in the first place.
I dunno what to say about that whole Reset thing. I don't hate Asgore, and I don't dislike him. Hell, he's a very detailed character, a huggable giant goat, and someone I feel deeply sorry for. I just don't agree with his motives. He even admits that Toriel was right at the end of True Pacifist.
Thank you for that! That was fun, and I'm glad you like the art!
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
"It wouldn't have made a difference to the amount of hope his people had if he had done what Toriel said, because he'd still be getting seven SOULs to break the barrier. Just a lot sooner. Granted, I think Toriel could have told him to do that a lot earlier BEFORE he declared war on the humans. Her mistake, I suppose."
Of course it would have made a difference: one of those 'solutions' would have led to immediate retaliation by humanity and the destruction of all monsters.
" but that would imply that she meant to collect SOULs from a graveyard rather than killing six more humans."
So a goat monster defiling the bodies of the dead? Wow. That's even worse! Humanity would stomp the monsters as degenerate demons for that kind of stuff even faster!
"She had tried to stop the humans from leaving by caring for them in the Ruins, but I think she also knew that she couldn't force them to stay; that they were still their own beings and had their own decisions to make, even if it led to their deaths, and even she knew that."
...and in so doing endangered the rest of the Underground and endangered further humans and she didn't even bother to escort them. Who is the real jerk again?
"Seeing it happen six times, and the fact that one more SOUL would allow the barrier to be destroyed, would have finally led her to make the decision to destroy the door leading to the rest of the underground, but Frisk managed to convince her to let them leave."
...and yet she still let Frisk wander off. Like all the others. Without any indication that they wouldn't
A. murder another monster
B. survive
C. wouldn't kill Asgore because his soul was their ONLY way out (which of course makes one wonder Toriel didn't offer her OWN soul if she cared so much for them).
"When the player is in Toriel's home, in their room, there's a shoebox with 'kids shoes of varying sizes'. This is enough evidence to suggest that those who came down there were all kids."
Wrong. Asriel and Chara used to play there all the time (remember, it was once their HOME). The item descriptions suggest many of the others were older.
" Plus, an adult would know wiser than to go up to a mountain everyone says you'll never return from."
Adults do 'Exploration' in the modern day and upload their footage on YouTube. So your statement is disproven on the basis that real life humans do that shit all the time.
"The Patience SOUL, as most likely a young child, might have just lost their knife and ribbon there, or left it there on purpose, but Toriel does mention that every human that comes through always leaves the Ruins and dies."
....or that they fell off the ladder while being pursued by Toriel. Much in her dialogue suggest her containing you is a NEW stratagem. Remember: Asgore stays AWAY from the Ruins AND several monsters reported seeing her wander around
before, but noted that she was 'KEEPING TO HERSELF LATELY'.
" Even if Asgore wasn't the one to kill them, he was responsible for it in the long run."
...then by that same argument, TORIEL is responsible for it. Check and mate.
"There's nothing to suggest that any of the fallen humans did a genocide run. They might have killed a FEW monsters, and gained a few LOVE, perhaps out of self defense or impulse, but you'd reckon that monsters would be a lot more scared of the player if genocide were the case."
1. Several items are COVERED in dust (ie: Monster Remains)
2. Given the amount of dust on the items it is clear that it was MORE than 'self-defense'
3. The monsters ARE terrified of you (many of them openly hoping that Asgore will put you down).
As such, it is clear several of the humans did indeed start a genocide run.
"I doubt any monsters believed that the humans killed both Chara and Asriel, because that would require a human going through the barrier to kill them."
Given their response to Prince Asriel coming back through the barrier and dying of human inflicted injuries (as related to you by Gerson), clearly that is not the case.
"The populace was most likely bloodlusted after Undyne took control..."
Wrong. The populace saw a repeat of the previous atrocity and reacted when Toriel refused to respond in kind (Sans even tells you as much).
"This is a situation that's more about what the player theorises, so there's no clear answer to this (as are many things in Undertale. God damnit, Toby) but Gerson does mention, if you're in a Geno route, that he and Asgore agreed that trying to get to the surface world would be pointless, because the humans would kill them anyway."
...which is why he had his scientists focus on a peaceful alternative which he hoped wouldn't anger the humans (as revealed in the lab notes). No player theories, its whats in the game.
"..all because he didn't go with Toriel's plan in the first place."
Wrong again. As Asriel points out, him going with Toriel's plan would have resulted in a slaughter.
"I dunno what to say about that whole Reset thing. I don't hate Asgore, and I don't dislike him. Hell, he's a very detailed character, a huggable giant goat, and someone I feel deeply sorry for. I just don't agree with his motives. He even admits that Toriel was right at the end of True Pacifist."
...he was agreeing with her abuse of him. This is a guy so full of self loathing that he tired to commit suicide by Frisk. If you don't agree with his motives, then by proxy you don't
agree with Toriel's, since they both mirror each other.
Asgore is not the monster here (pardon the pun). He is a victim of folks taking his action out of context and deifying Toriel to the point that can't see that they are
effectively THE. EXACT. SAME. CHARACTER.
Thanks for the art!
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Okay, um. I'm not going to bother discussing this, because... well. I didn't mean to aggravate you in anyway or be rude. But you're being a little passive-aggressive and I'd appreciate it if you just... stepped back?
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Am I?
Not my intention. Its just the way the way I talk (English is my second language).
You didn't aggravate me. In fact, I find you to be very nice and pleasant.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0