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Published: 2010-02-27 17:28:47 +0000 UTC; Views: 12619; Favourites: 59; Downloads: 18
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Dunno if I saved it under the right thing but, here we go.As I was browsing dA earlier, lookin for stamps, I tend to find a lot of anti yaoi, yuri, hetro and so on. I read a lot of the comments on these anti stamps, since I'm a rather curious person, and interested to see what people are like with certain things.
Now, I notice that yaoi gets a lot of flack because of the fangirls who either try to force it down your throats (which I've never actually encountered, in all fairness) or because dA is alledgedly full of gay pornography, or because they pair up X other pairing that interferes somehow with what they like as a pairing. That, and yaoi/gay relations are wrong in fandoms and the scourge of the earth, alledgedly.
Next is yuri, which doesn't recieve - as far as I've seen - as much issues. In all my time on the internet, I've never found any yuri fan which I read about in comments, or from other people. That they like lesbians is 'sick and wrong', messes with hetro pairings that X person likes, and is totally not right because they wouldn't be lesbian just beacuse.
Hetro (canon and OC) is a mixed one. Some fans who hate yaoi and yuri makes these things saying that both are wrong and disgusting, yet support gay rights, etc, since they don't want to be labelled as homophobic. However, OCs tend to sway some way or another into being either replicas of the human self, or what they want to be...or ust mary sues. Hate clans for characters (mostly female), seem to arise if they're OC orientated, while anti-pairing clubs for those that are...canon het likers.
Generally, they all seem to cause such havoc, and can ruin or put people off coming near the fanbase because of inside wars about whether Zuko and Katara should be together, Zuko or Aang/Sokka or Zuko/Mei/other random female characters he meets or stuff all those girls, they're no match for my OC who's had a tramuatic life and can fire and wind bend, or something.
Generally, I've looked at comments I've seen and asked friends for opinions on this, and with the bizarre accumaltion of speec you see above, what I believe are misconceptions people have on an entire section or group of fans.
Not all yaoi fangirls don't know the difference between yaoi and shonen-ai, they don't all think of yaoi every few second, it's all they can say, will shove down your throats or call you homophobic just because you don't like yaoi. As a fan of all pairing types, I can say that if you don't like yaoi and yuri, but support gay rights, then that's cool, I've got no issue with you. When I talk with people who assume the worst of an entire fanbase, I am courteus, polite, and tak with them. I may say what my perferences are, or what pairings I support, but I'm open to most things. Of course I'm not saying that everyone is like myself. If that were true, I'd be rather worried. You get minorities of such fans, but on a whole, a lot of fangirls, and boys, are just like yourself and I. We may have conflicting views, but that's life, eh?
The next point, not hetro fans are Mary-Sue creating idiots who self-insert themselves into fiction so they can bonk their favourite character(s) half to death and spawn kidlets. I've met OC writers who may do canon/OC pairings, but they don't make OCs carbon copies, or even copies at all. It's always awkward to make OCs when you're younger, since you may not have the imagination to do so. Though I really don't like Mary Sues, I will gladly help out people if they feel they have issues with OCs. Again, though this is a minority in the grand scheme of things in terms of writing in one particular fandom.
Canon-het fans also seem to have this bizarre tag that they're going to rip you to shreds if you dare pair...Ichigo with Orihime because it is Ichigo and Rukia, no question. I've met some fans who are like tis, sure, but I've met plenty who aren't, and support, or can at least see the point, of other pairings which are plausable.
Again, minorities are at work here. Just because you ma meet 40 sterotypically 'bad' fans, and just one 'good' fan, doesn't mean that everyone is going to be the same.
Yuri was a really awkward one to write about, since you don't see as much bashing, or all the yuri fans I've seen are quite mature, both genders of course. One very negative connotation I had several years ago is that guys made yuri so they could use it for either wank material, or for someone else to use. It always seemed a very male-based area, and I became very angry that I could never find anything loving, which I found with yaoi. Even fluffy shoju-ai never seemed like it was meant for female eyes. However, I overcame the bad misconceptions I had with yuri and male writers/artists, and found a few pieces that broke that norm for me, which I enjoyed and loved greatly. Obviously it's not all wank material or fanservice to grab say, pageviews on dA, and not all male yuri fans - like female yaoi fans (and hetro fans) are thinking when they write/draw 'yeah, they'd totally let me join in with them!' since the same rule really would apply to an all gay and lesbian relationship that, they don't feel anything for the opposite gender, why would they? Female artists for yuri and shoju-ai I perfer marginly, although some male writer and artists know how to get to the female mind too.
Generally, each area will have bad sterotypes and misconceptions about each other. Some people might agree, some might not and boast that they've never found anyone like this, thus it cannot be true. On the entire internet and people hooked up to it, you're going to find things you like and don't like, love and hate/. I can happily accept that. Like...I don't like vore, yiffy and inflation art, you may not like original characters, nude male drawings or my drawing style.
In the end though, I think we need to really think about what's worth arguing about. Anime characters are fictionous beings. In shows like Naruto and Bleach, I really think that any pairing (within some reason) is acceptable. Naruto and Sasuke, Naruto and Hinata, Naruto and Sakura, etc. In the end, you can't marry, have sex or anything like that with these fictional beings, and really, they shouldn't make us argue so much about these things. I know not everyone will get along, and I accept that. I accept people will want beastiality pairings maybe, or shota/loli-con. I don't majorly agree with it, but whatever floats your boat I guess.
Long....musing is out the way. Inspired from a piece of work we were set called 'Misconceptions of Me'.
Art is my own, and that jazz.
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Comments: 44
xXTekkenCaliburXx [2022-04-27 02:21:15 +0000 UTC]
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Fermin-Tenava [2020-02-24 23:18:59 +0000 UTC]
Tbh, I was #3 at some point.
Just couldn't imagine two guys hanging up (mainly because there was no yaoi pairing that I in any way favoured).
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ClareLaBelleRose [2019-12-07 19:03:30 +0000 UTC]
I'm the last one, and I've been attacked by the yaoi type girls a lot.
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glymthecat [2014-07-19 17:13:17 +0000 UTC]
I feel like the last one sort of describes me? I'm like: I like a Good Yaoi pairing once in a while, and I rarely read Het, and don't read yuri, but I'm not an over-zealous fangirl who'll stuff Yaoi down your throat. And I did do a OCXCANON of Sasuke with my oc Shizune, BUT it's just a side relationship, she's sort of one of those characters which apears maybe every few episodes, lends a supporting hand and aides Sasuke when leaving the village.
I'm not a fangirl, I just like yaoi and my OCxSasuke. :3
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fumeradraycarla In reply to glymthecat [2014-07-20 00:06:01 +0000 UTC]
the last one was how I felt all those years ago when I made this. Like these days my opinion has stayed the same on the matter, In terms of oc/canon it's pretty much down to striking a good balance of keeping the characters canon but also giving them a realistic chance to explore this new character and seeing where it goes - much like canon characters who don't interact much but you ship because they could have a really good relationship. Though I'm not a fan of people who make Mary Sues/Gary Stus and refuse to acknowledge their OCs are p awful BUT WANT TO BE CONSIDERED AMAZING AUTHORS at the same time, I think if you're just doing something for fun or yourself and it kinda is just self-gratifying fanfiction, then go ahead. Like so long as you know your character is what it is, but realise that hey, you can make better ones if you wanted, then that's fine.
I admit to being a fangirl when I was much younger, and I don't see anything too wrong with identifying as such, but so long as you understand the difference between fiction/reality you'll be ok. I remember reading some fanfictions years ago where it seemed two guys were boning through putting their peen inside the others peen, and it just doesn't work that way! The same with the lack of lube or strange lube choices, and knowing that a first time for anyone is p painful if you don't spend the time on foreplay. I think part of knowing stuff like that though is because internet access wasn't really a thing until I was 14, so I had a moderate, but still limited, understanding on things until I got older.
But thanks for taking the time to talk!
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CanvasCark123 [2014-03-12 22:48:39 +0000 UTC]
Ugh, I loathe the "well their het in canon" argument against M/M or F/F pairings. Yeah even though their heterosexualΒ doesn't meanΒ peopleΒ can't still ship M/M pairings or F/F pairings. I meanΒ if they think its a cute, ship letΒ 'em ship it, youΒ don'tΒ have the right to control what they can or can't ship! Β
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fumeradraycarla In reply to CanvasCark123 [2014-03-21 01:32:39 +0000 UTC]
Exactly.
The argument anyway for the 'they're het in canon' thing is always really lame unless they outright SAY they're whatever sexuality, so het in this case. But then you can just AU it or age up the character and they might become more fluid in their sexuality. Course then that applies in all sexualities.
But really it's just fictional characters in the end who don't have 100% confirmed sexualities most of the time in their canon. Just because they show an interest in someone of the opposite sex doesn't mean they can't be interested in same sex. If people want to get their panties in a bunch about this they've too much time on their hands.
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CanvasCark123 In reply to fumeradraycarla [2014-03-25 02:35:51 +0000 UTC]
Β The best argument I've seen supporting same-sex non-canon ships ever!
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fumeradraycarla In reply to CanvasCark123 [2014-07-20 00:06:13 +0000 UTC]
ahhh, thank you!
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ChaoticDarkAngel [2013-06-15 19:02:19 +0000 UTC]
Agreed. I personally don't care if people like yaoi, yuri, hetero whatever. I've never been personally hated on but when I read comments like 'Yaoi fangirls/fanboys are stupid and ignorant!!' I can't help but feel...disheartened sometimes .___. I'm just a normal fangirl with an interest is all I am. I don't force others to love my favorite couples at all. I actually have a few friends who don't like yaoi or yuri and we get along just fine ^^ (Though one of my friends is homophobic in real life -__-).
Really is pairing up two guy characters or two girl characters harming anyone? No I don't see how it is. It's just a matter of personal opinions. I don't agree with shouta, loli or beastality either but I'm not going to bash people who like it because it's not a good feeling to be hated on.
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fumeradraycarla In reply to ChaoticDarkAngel [2013-06-17 21:09:57 +0000 UTC]
It's good you and your friends get on even though you don't like the same stuff, and that's just the way it should be. My mum's homophobic to an extent, although after a few arguments she says so long as people are happy then it doesn't matter (I'm not sure if I believe her, but I'm bi she needs to accept that). Homophobic friends are always awkward to be around if you stray onto the subject, but so long as they're not in your face about it, hopefully you can remain friends. They might one day overcome that part of themselves.
People though who need to argue about fandom pairings just bug me a whole lot. There's no point because it's fiction, and the fact it's ~fan~ fiction or ~fan~ art means it's not meant to be canon or anything like that. It's for fun, and fun is all that matters.
Thank you though for the comment!
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ChaoticDarkAngel In reply to fumeradraycarla [2013-06-17 21:58:53 +0000 UTC]
Yeah I'd say we get along pretty good ^^ Though it bugs me when my friend says stuff like 'Marriage should be between man+woman' and that offended one of my friends who was lesbian :/ I just think she really needs to be careful sometimes saying that stuff, since she knows some of my other friends are gay you know? .__.
Sometimes people say 'Yaoi/yuri pairs are an insult to the original author!!' Really? How pray tell, is pairing Shizuo+Izaya together for example an 'insult' to the author? I don't get some people's 'logic' or whatever on that. I ship canon and non canon pairs, if people have a problem with that well deal with it ^^
And not a problem XD I like commenting on stamps ^-^
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fumeradraycarla In reply to ChaoticDarkAngel [2013-06-17 22:51:22 +0000 UTC]
Well I hope they don't treat your lesbian friend badly! Or the gay friends outside of the marriage business. If your friend is 20, like yourself, they'll need to learn that times are a-changing and the world's moving on. I do hope they grow out of that phase U_U
ahhh, I've heard that so damn often! As someone who wants to get their own work published...well, I have crack ships and ships that won't be canon (but I ship because they'd be perfect together), since I don't want to write a romance, so it's not important. But if anyone ever said it'd be an insult to have two female characters together, I'd be like pfffffffffft, ship 'em and show me the porn. But none of that objectifying crap. I really don't think authors care enough, and are just happy you enjoy the characters and are exploring how different relationships can work and that leads you to write or draw it, and thus getting into making your own creative works. If the author was so offended and insulted, they'd say something about it, but if the author is too clingy then it makes the series a turn off for potential fans. When you publish something, you're letting it go to be adored, critiqued, slander, hated and loved by the audience. The audience makes or breaks your product, and people need to remember that. So that pairing you mentioned might bring in new fans, or turn others away. It doesn't matter.
I keep wanting to re-do or update this because it's so flaming old x3 but it's my most liked piece and I never understood why until recently, ahahah. But thank you again!
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ChaoticDarkAngel In reply to fumeradraycarla [2013-06-17 23:37:49 +0000 UTC]
Oh I hope not, if they EVER talk bad about homosexuals in front of me were done and over. I know that sounds mean but I can't hang out with someone who's against homosexuality and hates homosexuals.
Ha ha me to XD In fact if I become an author and people slashed my two characters together? I'd feel honored in all honesty, because it shows they really love the characters that much to pair them with other people. Yeah I mean really how often do authors really read fanfiction? Probably not very often considering how busy they might be. I know some like Anne Rice are against fanfiction and don't like people, writing about her characters...I respect her opinion and all, but I think i't's kind of...ah what's the word I'm looking for? Clingy? Too posessive of her characters?
You're very welcome Anytime ^//^
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fumeradraycarla In reply to ChaoticDarkAngel [2013-06-17 23:58:04 +0000 UTC]
I've fell out with a few people because of stuff like that, or they've been racist and it's just WOW CAN YOU NOT??? It's not mean in the slightest, it's just not having to put up with crap which is really outdated thinking. It's 2013, and we don't have time to sit around and police other people's lives. I mean I doubt these people are thinking 24/7 about homosexuals and how "bad" they are, and only care when it's brought up. So really they don't care until they feel someone's stepping on their toes...which no one is. It's sad when religion is used as an excuse, because I doubt any of the gods or messiahs or prophets wanted people to hate each other, and just want peace and love and harmony.
I think some authors get REALLY picky about the porn, and if the characters are underage I'd be the same in all fairness. I respect Ann Rice with her decision as well, but it is a bit weird. Regardless people will ignore her, and write it anyway. You got the right word though :3 either way, those authors started just like everyone else with OCs people probably didn't care much about or even called mary/gary sue/stus, so even when people do OC/Canon, the Canon can still be a Sue/Stu. Just look at comic book heroes. Even then, some sue traits are actually real. I mean I've had two guys fighting for my affections and awkward love triangles and the occasional getting away with things that no one else would, but eeeeh, people seem to hate Ocs for some reason x3
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ChaoticDarkAngel In reply to fumeradraycarla [2013-06-18 01:10:21 +0000 UTC]
That is very true! I mean come on now people: What other people do with their lives is not our business at all. One of my aunt's think homosexuality though is being 'forced down her throat' if she sees one or two gay characters in her favorite TV show -__- I don't get how that is 'forcing it down her throat' if she doesn't like it, then just turn the channel or whatever.
Yeah I guess I'd feel the same way...especially pedophillia *cringes*. But if people just want to slash my characters up? Hey by all means do so I wouldn't mind ^^ Oh yeah it is possible to have a Canon character as a sue/stu. Some people naively think it's only OC's that can be mary sues, but I personally think a canon character can be a sue/stu also.
I know it's kind of weird how some...actually wish death upon OC's as well O_o Yeah. I've heard people actually say 'Death to all OC's!!' *sighs and shakes head* Oh well: Not much you can do about those people right?
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RinniMinni [2011-12-09 03:01:48 +0000 UTC]
i agree with you you :3 i usually get hate just because i like yaoi .__. alot of people think i'd spazz on them like "ANJSDBFBFBFD U SUX U NU LIKE Ya0iZ!!11!111" XD which i don't, i have plenty of friends who don't like yaoi but i still get along with them :3, heck we even joke around saying "to be fair with all fans all charatcers are bi" lolz
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samiamdeda [2011-11-21 20:36:09 +0000 UTC]
I make OCs to introduce the Canon characters to something they would hate to do, for a funny fic lol. Here's my Mary Sue fic I think you'd like to read! [link]
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DorkyGeneric-Nameplz [2011-07-18 16:47:16 +0000 UTC]
Personally I love yaoi and do like pairing characters together IF they are not cannon (Xemnas X SAIX). I don't mess with cannon characters. As for yuri...I do like pairing women together just nothing sexual (MIZORE X KURRUMA). XD I als like Hetro couples (CLOUD X AERITH) just not paired with OC
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fumeradraycarla In reply to DorkyGeneric-Nameplz [2011-07-26 12:12:57 +0000 UTC]
Sounds fair enough :3
At least you're honest about it ^.^
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DorkyGeneric-Nameplz In reply to fumeradraycarla [2011-07-26 13:35:55 +0000 UTC]
welcome
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CelticKawaii [2011-05-23 20:50:08 +0000 UTC]
Yes, thank you for writing this. I don't like yaoi or yuri pairings, but it's not because I'm a homophobic. I just avoid works that pair same-sex characters, because hey, I don't like it, so I don't read. Also, I'm more into canon-pairings than CanonXOC, and it's not really a big deal if a character I like is "taken," so I try to avoid wish fulfillment.
I really don't get the whole deal with diehard shippers though. You're right, they're not even real characters.
At long last, someone figures it out!
Thanks for this.
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fumeradraycarla In reply to CelticKawaii [2011-05-24 01:09:30 +0000 UTC]
It's not a problem at all.
At least you do't troll or flame if you don't like something, in this case yaoi and yuri, and you're honest. I think a lot of hetro fans do what you do, but it's sad how a few can "ruin" it for everyone. Or at least give people un-needed and un-wanted crap.
Although I like all three, I do find myself feeling sometimes 'that pairing just doesn't work' for me. For example, Aang/Zuko from Avatar, or Lloyd/Zelos from Tales of Symphonia. I may like art people do of these pairings, or even fictions because of the art/writing/story, but it's not something I ship, and would feel uncomfortable doing so.
By the sounds of it you get requests or something - about the wish fulfilment - but I'm sadly not getting what you mean there >_< do you mean if *you* like a character - but they're in a canon pairing - you don't bother with OC stuff, because you accept the canon pairing? I apologise for misunderstanding if I have.
Hah, I'm sure many people aside from myself have figured this out as well, but you probably know this I think sometimes it just needs to be said again, because people sometimes just take it to far, and stereotypes and misconceptions that are made about groups just get silly after a while. I know it's a fact of life, but you might as well try ^^
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CelticKawaii In reply to fumeradraycarla [2011-08-21 00:26:05 +0000 UTC]
Yeah, I know what you mean. I try not to troll because I'll just start a flame war, and I don't think the GIFT is a good excuse.
And as for having a pairing that just don't work for me...that happens. I really don't see Kid/Chrona, but everybody ships them . I just...don't see it.
Nah, I don't get requests...but I like doing OC fanfics, though I try to stay away from wish fulfillment. It's weird though, because all the ones I like probably don't do relationships...that might be why I like them though !
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Lelia86 [2011-02-28 15:19:37 +0000 UTC]
As for the yaoi fans, I don't really know, but it seems they get attacked quite a lot. And if someone or a huge fanbase gets attacked like that, there are two ways one might react to that. You'll back down or you'll defend it with all your might. Maybe that is why many people think they are so aggressive. And there is always the difference between homosexual lesbian couples and gay couples. Men tend to get a lot more attention than women and they are therefore more often attacked than women are. There are even some countries where homosexual relationships are forbidden between men, but it seems there is no such prohibition when it comes to women.
But to be honest with you, I've seen it. I've seen immature yuri fangirls/fanboys. I've read one comment somewhere else, in which someone was accused to being a homophobic just because this someone dared to pair one of the participants of a famous yuri couple with... another girl... I know, it doesn't make sense at all. It just shows that there really are immature yuri around. Of cause, it may be just this particular case, but still...
As for myself, I like all of the above. It is the idea of the pairing, their interaction or the question as to what they could be, which interests me. I don't look at the gender while doing this and wouldnβt want to be reminded that this particular person is not gay, so this couple will never happen (But to be honest, no one really told me this until now).
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fumeradraycarla In reply to Lelia86 [2011-02-28 21:36:58 +0000 UTC]
I'm aware of how homosexuality is in other countries. Queen Victoria passed a law in the UK during her reign that homosexuality was illegal, but only between men. She allegedly believed that women would not partake in such activities, so the law was never against lesbians. I learnt this back in college when our tutor told us a story about this gay couple who would hammer nails into each other's genitalia for pleasure, and they were arrested for it. Course that was about three years ago when I learnt that.
I notice because the fans tend to be young, that possibly age and maturity can come into play as well. You get the little kids thinking they're hardcore (on any side) who end up bullying other people/groups because they may not fully grasp acceptance. When you hear the complaining that "X fans are so stupid because they think me hating X pairing makes me a homophobe!" Although we're older and know what is and isn't, I suspect a lot of kids don't understand the entirety of the concept/thing and just go off what they know. Not all kids are like this and older kids/teens/young adults (although seen less on my end) can be like this too, but again, it's the crap that these kids are only 13 and shouldn't be 'allowed' on the web.
I'd argue with the rise of yaoi and gay acceptance/relationships through the internet that that's the reason men get more attention. Lesbians have been everywhere and everywhere before the rise of net, and during life, if I have ever wandered into a sex store, I can bet that I couldn't find anything for gay men. There'll be loads of lesbian dvds or two-girls-one-guy types of things, but unless somewhere was to specialise or times have changed in the past two years, I'm a little doubtful you'd be finding much. When I was learning tv channels on satilite tv, I only found one gay porn channel for men. Which I believe is unfair on the gay population who may wish to see their porn if they want, but also maybe because it's still frowned upon a little more. It could be because men are more likely to watch porn than women. Of course I know plenty of women who watch porn.
But then that falls into gender roles and how men are "allowed" or it's "accepted" that men are perverts. Women being like that? They're either lesbian, a nympho or some other bullshit.
I do agree on your points though :> and thank you for the reply. I believe that since these characters are all fictional, people writing/drawing fiction about fiction is fine. You could potentially argue that all these rape or paedophilia pieces you find are potentially *far* worse than any somewhat 'off' pairing. Regardless, if the character's sexuality is not relevant to the story, it won't be mentioned. Now, if there was a reason to the story or as a defining characteristic of X character, then perhaps it's relevant.
Thank you!
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MangaOtakuTB15 [2011-01-22 16:22:58 +0000 UTC]
I'm not sure where I would be categorized in.
Shonen Ai (Yaoi is porn portion) is natural IF the characters are naturally gay.
Shojo Ai (Yuri might be the porn portion) is natural IF the characters are naturally lesbian.
Hetero is natural IF the characters are naturally straight.
That's just me.
Now, crack can come in ANY of the three categories (I love crack in any series/shape/form cause it makes me laugh, but that doesn't mean I ship them or ship them seriously) and IDC which pairings you like so long as you respect the ones I like and in some cases, the ones the manga writers themelves showed (aka. Cannon, I think). Respect and preference are two different things, and respect is something the WORLD needs to work on.
I'm not being mean, I'm just stating my opinion.
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fumeradraycarla In reply to MangaOtakuTB15 [2011-01-24 03:14:23 +0000 UTC]
That's fine. I don't see anything wrong with your opinion anyway. You got the porn part right, too with yaoi/yuri as it is just porn. I've enough manga and been around long enough to know the difference <3 it's more because I hear the labels 'those yaoi fangirls' when those 'yaoi' fangirls are just shonen-ai fans.
Seems fair enough to me to be frank. As someone who writes and works with characters, I'd possibly say that the author may make something canon, but not necessarily like the outcome themselves. I've wrote pieces on my course when I think 'really, I'd like these two to go out, but for the sake of my story this will happen'. Some authors really care though, and I see why. It's their babies.
Thank you for the comment ^^
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MangaOtakuTB15 In reply to fumeradraycarla [2011-01-24 13:50:38 +0000 UTC]
The only thing I never understood was OCs. I know what they are but I see no point in making them (except making them the antagionist in your fanfic, which I find perfectly okay, XD) as the series had plenty of characters. Is there a reason for their existence, other than the one in the parenthesis? Not trying to be mean but just curious.
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fumeradraycarla In reply to MangaOtakuTB15 [2011-01-24 14:57:40 +0000 UTC]
It was awkward with the OC business, because again, I mostly find it under hetro fans (and it was something I wanted to bring up in a point, maybe shouldn't of lumped together but aw well).
I notice that aside from the canon het fans, we'll take Naruto and Hinata for examples sake, that yes, you have these fans. However, you then get the fas who hate *all* the female cast of a series because the person in question loves, crushes or has fantasies over the male characters. They may find the female lead(s) annoying and thus make their own character to date say, Naruto, because they think this pairing is so much better because they can make their character 'perfect' for this pairing to them, or one of those 'they fall in love after a series of events, but they started off hating each other' scenarios.
Some people I've seen seem to lump canon-hetro mad fans with OC fans together, because they see the OC makers just making self-inserts, which I assume you know what I mean, or highly cliched characters, Mary Sues/Gary Stus or just 'awful' characters. I know there is a clear difference between the two sets of fans - since not all OC fans are hetro or just hetro-likers. Some series also may have a really male-dominated cast, or some OC writers might want their character in the universe because they think it might add something, or make a less-crap female lead...since with female leads I see in a lot of SJ anime/manga series, a lot tend to fall into those stereotypical groups for female characters. At least to me anyway.
Having an OC as a villian I think is fine, but like how each series of a show may add new characters (which they almost always do), perhaps some writers feel that aside from some romance in their fanfiction or art that they are doing it a service. The writer can be blind though to their story, which everyone runs the risk of, but to me if you're not fond of OCs, just stay away and let them have their time.
It's not mean again ^^ so don't worry! It takes a lot to hurt my feelings, and most of the time I'll just laugh things off xD
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Kellodrawsalot [2011-01-18 14:54:20 +0000 UTC]
Now, I notice that yaoi gets a lot of flack because of the fangirls who either try to force it down your throats (which I've never actually encountered, in all fairness)
agreed here, I wonder where those fans are I just like het yuri and yaoi in general I just get tired of the openly aggressive antiyaoi people here, I just find out an anti yaou group here isn't just against slash but against everything gay in anime manga or video games.
Its sad really.
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fumeradraycarla In reply to Kellodrawsalot [2011-01-19 14:18:31 +0000 UTC]
Yaoi gets a load of flack due to the fans generally. I mean, I think a lot of yaoi fangirls are quite well mannered - the ones I've met - but I've met a few in my time when I've just wanted to throw a book at their face and tell them to fuck off. Of course that's counter productive, and my opinion has changed greatly from that period of my life until now.
Of course you'll also find the people who don't like yaoi who troll for the lulz to wind them up, genuinely are homophobic, the het fans who feel you 'stole' their precious character and then the people who just like to exaggerate their stories to fit into the 'yaoi fangirl sterotype run-in'. I think a few yarns have bee spun as a way of propaganda, but I think it applies through everything.
The argument of 'yaoi is stupid because you can't bone the character because they're gay in your world' I've also had thrown at me is I think almost invalid. I'd have a bit of trouble getting to that stage because of an issue in reality. Although the same applies to them if they, for example, like a yuri pairing. The girls are lesbian. As in, like girls. Just how you might get off on girls fingering each other, I may get off on men bumming each other. It's not the most lovely way of putting it, but it's a fair point.
I've seen the anti-guilds and groups via browsing, because I search it when I get really bored. It was a mix of that and the pro yuri, yaoi and het stamps that made me to make this.
I think it's just over-blown stereotypical BS on some parts, and young kids that are green to the internet having their brains subjected to all these guilty pleasures that probably 'makes them stupid' over such little things. Then of course the freedom of speech online thing as well.
Thank you for the comment though ^^ I'm glad you like this.
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Kellodrawsalot In reply to fumeradraycarla [2011-01-19 14:55:14 +0000 UTC]
You're welcome I also faved it.
I agree with your points I also like a lot of het yaoi or yuri couples not because of it's omghot but because I like the idea of an paring the thing is when I want to fave I like Het couples stamp a lot of them are meant to offend or to counter slash ones which puts me off :/ I also think however the aggressive nature towards Yaoi might also have a thing or two to do with the female sexuality. I renumber a sketch of a gay couple was uploaded by a female artist ( it wasn't really yaoi just realisms style ) and someone ranted ''how the female artist needs to get laid, or has some sort of mental problem with her sex life and how other woman and girls on DA all have this fetish'' funny thing is that artist has a boyfriend and I also draw Yaoi and have a girlfriend!
So the argument if a woman draws something fetish or not to sexually express herself doesn't mean she has a problem. The sad thing is no one does this when a guy draws Het-Porn, Yuri, sexual-drawings of woman, no one is going to accuse a guy of having a mental problem, I think it's a form of denying woman have sexual fetishes to or in fact have a sexuality. I remember so many times when I see people jump into conclusions to find medical or social reasons why some girls/woman find something so hot instead of thinking: oh it just turns them on,
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fumeradraycarla In reply to Kellodrawsalot [2011-01-24 03:22:32 +0000 UTC]
The fav was after the comment by my dA notice thing thanks xD
I think in short, I agree with what you're saying. I've noticed it myself, in terms of the het stamps and the women drawing/taking pictures of gay people/fetish work. You're always going to find people who want to complain about something, or try to psychoanalyse and it after a while, it just gets old.
I think in fairness the yuri fans probably get the less crap from people, because from what I notice, a lot of fanbases are made up of female fans. Most of which I'm going to go out on a limb and assume are hetrosexual. I know there will be some lesbian and bisexual fans (and of course ones for any and all other orientation), but since the female characters in a series can get a lot of flack from the jealous girls (if there is a love interest/insinuation), then yeah, the yuri fans can get on with it.
Thank you very much for your comments though ^^ I like chatting about things like this ^_^
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Euterpe89 [2010-03-06 17:56:57 +0000 UTC]
I think that your point is a really really deep and at the same time just common sense. I think that people shouldn't be flamed about what they like or what they don't or what kind of work they produce whether it be yoai/yuri or even work with OCs in it. That is one of the reasons I want to keep my fanfics to myself. People will probably think that the characters that I add are Mary Sues . but sorry I am rambling now. Anyhoo good point and good job.
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fumeradraycarla In reply to Euterpe89 [2010-03-06 21:44:21 +0000 UTC]
Lol, it's fine, you haven't rambled at all, my dear ^^
I think common sense is a brilliant thing to have, to be really honest, and sometimes the internet either kills it, or people just act first, think later...or just don't think about what they've said.
I also don't believe that all OC characters are Mary Sues, since I doubt that yours are. As you said, some people may think they are, but thn a majority may not find that to be the case, although creating a character sometines for a certain universe can be either really tricky, or so open and unlimited that you have all these ideas you pile into one character and they become probably a little too 'over-powered', but then the canon characters are quite the same. I mean, Sasuke currently in Naruto I would say is boredlining on being a Gary-Stu, or is one by now. Sure he's got some flaws, but he just hasn't lost any battles, and hasn't succumb to any major flaws...save his eyesight going a bit dodgy.
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Euterpe89 In reply to fumeradraycarla [2010-03-07 05:02:55 +0000 UTC]
It's true that people seem to lose the filter that most people would have when talking to some people face to face. that might be the reason though. It is easier to say things when you don't see their face (at least most of the time.)
I do find it hard to pick and chose what flaws,strengths and powers a character might have just because I fear ridicule from people. Sometimes so much that it interferes with my writing process.
I don't follow Naruto that much (I used to read the manga mostly but kind of lost interest after the Chunin (sp?)Exam and I knew I could never catch up in the anime series)However judging from a friend who follows Naruto avidly who talks about it a lot, Sasuke is a a Gary-Stu. Of course true fans could make more accurate judgments than I could.
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Zartinex [2010-02-28 13:10:22 +0000 UTC]
Couldn't agree more :\ I've seen a ton of the stereotypical yaoi fans, who'll bite your head off and call you a homophobe if you don't like their pairing or don't like slash in general. Does that change my view of a fanbase? Nope.
I've also seen a ton of crazy het fans, which IMO can get a /lot/ worse than us "fangirls." OMG THEYR'E NOT GAY THATS SICK UR ALL STUPID. OMG DIS PURSUN BELONGS WITH HER LOL. I honestly love a m/m couple in which one of them has had a canon girlfriend in the past. Do I care? Nope. He could be bi, just because one person shows interest in one sex doesn't mean that's all they're interested in. Yet, people still bash that couple. (Though, I've seen it getting bashed more because it's popular than because it's gay.)
I'll shut up now. I'm probably just repeating what you said anyways xD it's like 7 am and I have gotten no sleep so yeah.
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fumeradraycarla In reply to Zartinex [2010-02-28 13:28:29 +0000 UTC]
I can tell xD although I don't know many series where that's happened. I was watching the Devil May Cry anime with edge, and know nothing of the characters mjorly, but these two women - one who dated Dante and some other chick, I thought they'd make a nice shoju-ai couple. Edge ws a bit '...but they hate each other and she dated Dante' and I was just...so what? They're fighting alongside each other, and seem to get on at least, and I feel a bit of a spark there.
It's more how you interprate a pairing on some ways, although you've made some good points and all. I can understand if a popular yaoi/slash/yuri/femslash/het pairing can get annoying, especially if you just put in say...Katara into the dA search engine, you might get up a billion ZuTara and not much variation. I myself perfer Aang/Katara and Zuko/Mei, but that's my particular preference. They all share enough canon time together, and get on rather well O:
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Roger64 [2010-02-27 19:04:29 +0000 UTC]
Hey as long as you don't trollingly knock inflation I won't shove it down your throat. I don't like vore either.
Or start a rant for or against yaoi/yuri, kinda depends on the couple.
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fumeradraycarla In reply to Roger64 [2010-02-27 19:12:25 +0000 UTC]
To be honest, I don't search inflation. If I'm searching say, Blaziken or Sneasel, I've found inflation and stuff like that, and I'll look at it if it's made me curious, but I've no right to flame someone to say 'hey, that's gross', because I'm not the type of person to flame, or willingly cause trouble. I also don't stalk commenters on anti-pieces if there's been an arguement, since it was probably long before my time anyway xD well, posting time. I'll make my own comment to the artist, and if they don't reply, leave it at that.
Although I'm curious about what couples you may mean, since you said about yaoi/yuri and for and against and all that @_@ I must say, I don't know if you're saying that I'd start an arguement for/against, or that that's your opinion on the matter. I apologise for probably being a bit of an idiot. I know that if I did ever make for/against images for couples I like, I wouldn't be me anymore O: I just like couples, see where someone is coming from, or find a crack couple most intriguing...or let it go XD it's not terribly important in the grand scheme of things, since thar be real life out there, and that's more important then pairing squabbles ^^
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Roger64 In reply to fumeradraycarla [2010-02-27 19:52:26 +0000 UTC]
Sorry, I was a bit vague there. I mean that people shouldn't get worked up when people pair up same sex couples, even when there's little chance of it happening in cannon. It's just fan fiction in general.
I admit I didn't read all of your comic but my impression is that you were mocking all the people who got bent out of shape over liking or disliking yaoi. I figure your main message was 'just chill out guys.'
I came upon your work when I typed in 'inflation' and I didn't see any going on so thought 'oh no, another basher' but I was happy to see your mentioned it in passing.
So no I honestly wasn't not, nor am not, trying to start anything with you.
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fumeradraycarla In reply to Roger64 [2010-02-27 19:58:56 +0000 UTC]
Oh right ^^ I'm sorry if I sounded like I was trying to start something. I think I should make it clear, though I think you have it, that the thinsg the people are saying, save the last, are what people seem to think of those types of fans, or at least how I see it. Though you definatly got the part about chilling out ^_^ it'd be nice if people could see the forest through the trees, in some respects, but eh, life goes on, in the long run.
Cheers for clarifying though, and thank you for taking the time to read at least a little bit. I kinda spam-mused on it, so it's more getting thoughts out there. I do hope though, that you enjoy your day, and that you stay well ^^
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