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funkyalien — Anim Critique part 2
Published: 2008-05-01 13:42:22 +0000 UTC; Views: 5774; Favourites: 25; Downloads: 196
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Description
It's that time again!Chances are that I'm gonna just go with this one since I'm running a little short on time, but that doesn't mean that I don't want crits, so...
Advanced Critique is ON!
Big thanks to everyone that critiqued the last one; you've all been a big help! I'll try and get back to people soon as I can. Also there was apparently an issue with the looping on the last one. Just so you know, it loops automatically so if it's not doing so for you, right click and check the option. If it's still not looping, refresh the browser and it should work.
Righto, this one still isn't quite perfect but I can make any changes on the final version. Truth be told, I'm probably
going into too much detail as it is for the purpose of what this is for, but I wanna learn.
Anyway, the head movement isn't perfect and neither is the tail , but at least this time it actually looks more like a lion than some sort of deformed puma/dog/thing. And look! Ears! Now quit complainin' :/
Just kidding. But really, rip it up people
Media: Toon Boom Studio 4
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Comments: 83
I think the actually torso is still a little top-heavy, but this is defo a huge improvement from your last lion animation. -.o; The tail should be a little longer, and held out more, obviosuly with a pronounced tuft on the end. The front legs are as close to perfection as anyone'll get in an animation - for the back legs, the haunches should be maybe slightly more bunched, to give the impression of ready muscles? Sorry.. I don't know how realistic you want it to look. 
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the legs movement seems to be nice, ... its back look very straight, may be you can raise its head just a little and make a slight "hollow" (hard to translate from french to english ^^''
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I dunno man, it's nice, but something is bugging me about it.
Could be the neck and head being raised too high. I also think possibly at the rear should be raised slightly higher. It curves down abit after the rib cage then raises once it gets to the ribs and continues through to the tail, which is connected to the spine.
The back legs aint working for me, the joint feelins like its too short where the 'knee' is at the top. Then again i aint no expert.
Just doesnt feel like a lion walk to me, and it could be the weight and the timing aswell. When you see them walk, I think they are more extreme with when you see the shoulders '
Just keep checking more reference footage. BBC had a great motion gallery of animals.
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Oops sorry should have seen this one!
Big improvement, same critique tho in the shoulders just when the weight is on the foot the blade points and when the weight is off the blade should sink right down or even have the line disappear... that doesn't really make sense but anyway good luck!
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Wow, this is much improved from the previous version. The shoulders and neck look loads better. The only thing I could see is perhaps movement of the head slightly from side to side, but you said this is for a game and depending on the actually game application, the time required to change that vs. the visible finalized difference may not be the best chocie. Either way it looks great!
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its very good yes, but the walk of most felines are more profound. like how much the shoulder blades move, and the way they bend their feet.
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Apologies if I'm reiterating whats already been said (I really don't feel like reading 50+ comments, sorry)
I think all the motion is great, but that the body is too square. There should be more of an arch to the back, and similarly the underbelly should have more of a curve to it. A good reference I think is: [link]
Though maybe not AS pronounced as that. As mentioned above I think that'll make her(?) look more feline. I'm now kind of stepping into a field I don't know much about, but I also have a feeling the shoulders should have more movement in them still - not going any higher but dropping more and moving sort of in an arc toward and away from the neck.
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Actually it turns out that the arch in the back would be there. Strange saying that after being shown a very clear reference, but that was of a standling lioness, while a walking one tends to have the head angled slightly downward, which straightens out the back.
As for the belly; the curve could be accounded for by the head being raised. Most video references I've seen look flatter while the lion is actually walking.
Truth be told, had I have not seen the videos I would have made very much the same assumptions about lion anatomy compared to smaller cats. Thanks very much for pointing it out though, it's good to know that people are really looking into this
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Well all depends on what you (female) lion is doing except walking. If it is just going to the pound, it's almost perfect. Maybe add some tail movement (left to right from the lion point of view) and a little ear movement back and forth. If your lion is hunting, well, you need to back the ears and lower the body.
Elseway, pretty good job. It's almost it. Pretty natural. A little remark though. Your lion isn't quite feline... Try to give more forms to the body.
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She (in this case) is just walking rather than hunting or anything. I'm pretty confused by you saying it needs more forms to the body though. Just curious, what do you mean by that exactly?
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Look at that lioness.
[link]
You'll understand it all
But as I said, its just a little curve detail. But anyway, it's wonderfull. Your animation is pretty great. Keep going. Your a great animator.
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Looks alot better in my opinion! I can't wait to see when you add details. Is this lion female or male? Males tend to have more weight, and therefore walk "heavier". Plus they have a lot of extra skin.
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This is essentially an all-purpose base for male and female, but for argument's sake I'll say this one's a female
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Sounds great! Simplicity is always good.
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i think the neck needs to move more than the whole spine. it seems too straight. but the legs look good.
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Indeed, that head and neck aren't really moving right. There should really be a delay on the head movement after the front paws are set on the ground. How I've got it makes the spine look rather stiff.
Thanks for the observation
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Getting better all the time!
The front "wrists" move in a straight line from front to back, when really there'd be a slight give as weight was moved on then off of them. By the same token, I think the "knee" joint would be changing its angle a little as well.
Of course who am I to talk-- I've never done an animation this good before :B
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Still, those are some very good observations there. Very helpful, thanks very much
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Okay, this ones alot better on the anatomy scale, and the motion's looking alot better too. X3
I dunno, I'd just add in more scenes to make it smoother, I can't spot much wrong...
Although, I think with big felines, their lowering and rising of their 'shoulders' might be more exaggerated than that...?
Also I wish I had some real life lion walking to compare to... XDDD
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Hehe
Well the shoulders should be moving more than they are, but I pretty much guessed at where they should be and mangled it into working, lol.
I'm thinking you mean adding more frames rather than scenes (technical difference, but I get what you mean of course). I would but it's not really needed or prefered for what this is for. It'll all be ready to show in a few weeks time so you can see it then
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Yea, frames.
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Looks much better now. step by step you will have it down packed.
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Front leg looks much better, I think the only thing that looks weird is the midsection maybe sliming it down a bit.
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Well I certainly like what you're doing with this, K-man. Lemme see if I can wing it with the false knowledge by going for that "that doesn't look quite right" feeling. Hmm.... seems like the hind right leg should maybe lift up just a smidge more when stepping. I can't quite tell what it is I don't like about the head movement... and the tail just needs some movement. Any. At all. It's like it's been struck by lightning and rendered useless. Oh and the left shoulder seems like it should have more movement similar to the right shoulder. Seems like the left one is a bit rigid and... stuck in some way.
Well here's hoping I was helpful in some way! x.x
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Indeed it was
Well I can tell you what's wrong with the head movement: there's no delay to it after the foot is set down. Instead, it's moving at the same time, which is making it and the spine appear rather stiff.
The right hind leg is actually moving in the same way as the left one, but it's likely the low framerate that's making it more difficult to see. Not to say how I've done it is right in the first place, but it's a reason for it.
The final version of the tail has more movement to it, but in truth it does seem like a dead weight on lions most of the time. They don't really seems to move much, though again, it could move more here.
As for the shoulders... I pretty much fudged that into working 
Thanks very much for crit! The comments were most useful
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The general animation structure is good, the body doesn't move too much but it moves enough to be good and convincing, the paws have proper weight to them and the flow is good.
But something to really pull this one out would be to add another frame of animation. I think you're running on a 6 frame cycle? Pop it up one.
Have a look at the hind paws. There should be another frame just before the paw is put down, and after it's hit the high point of the cycle. There just seems to be a single frame missing there that throws the flow of the lines a bit. One extra frame won't be too noticeable (actually you'd better put two in, one for each side else it'll take staggered steps)
What I'd be really interested in would be to see a shadow map (just lines) drawn over each from to indicate where your shadows are going to be.
Are you planning on smooth shades and animated gradients? Or cell shade?
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Actually all of this is just going to be flat colours, no shading involved. It's not really needed in this case as the whole style is going to be rather simple.
This is actually running on an 8 frame cycle, but it's on 3s rather than the standard 2s I'd usually go for. It's to cut back on the file size and the number of frames the game it's for has to draw for it. If I were animating this as normal, I'd probably have 16 frames on 2s for a slower, but more accurate walk. I couldn't afford to spend that much time (and file resources) on making it truely perfect though, so I'm asking here just so I know for future reference what I could improve
And with that said - thank you very much for the critique! It's been most helpful
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OH! It's for a game.
Well then I retract my comment and you've made the perfect choice, sorry, I mis-read the comments.
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The shoulders have to go up more with each step you know what i mean
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I still think it needs more weight on the legs, bend at the joints a little more.
The paw placement is great now though
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I'm really gonna have to practice animating the weight right
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Heh, sorry, it's just that it's a big cat, and it will do itself a damage if it doesn't bend at the knees/elbows when it walks.
This kind of stuff pokes at me, don't sweat it too much.
Anyway I could pick an art piece absolutely to bits, doesn't mean I could do any better. I am a true critic, hah.
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Well that's fine with me, I'm wanting these animations pulled appart and thorougly analysed anyway. Not at all a problem with me
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Ah, well in that case, again, glad to be of assistance :3
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This one is a large improvement. The body is evened out and it's more realistic. I actually chuckled at all the comments saying the back had to move more. While this is true for smaller or more slender cats, lions are bulkier and a bit more rigid when walking. They kinda... It's almost like they swagger, in a way. It's a very lazy walk which when they suddenly break into a run it catches you off guard.
Anyway. For the critique. My focus keeps going back to the head and neck, but also the chest.
1. Lions and Lionesses have powerful leg muscles, including on their forelegs. Like June-Bug said the pectorals and shoulder muscles appear merged, and then tapers down into the slimmer legs. When they walk you don't really see the chest. For the record, Lion King is accurate in this.
2. And... actually.. I suppose if you fix that you even out the other things. Because then the neck would straighten a bit and the head would look lower, plus once you get the head moving it'll give the lion the swagger-ish walk it uses.
3. Real small- ears are a wee bit larger and more rounded.
Then once you add the details, such as the lips and nose and what not, should look pretty solid. Also, I noticed you fixed the legs to time better so that the forelegs lead the back legs and they don't all alternate.
Overall a vast improvement from the last one.
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Thanks
If I were to animate this at the higher framerate, I'd be sure to get all the details like the head bobbing at the right time and the weight shifting. It'd probably take a few tries to get it looking right, but that's what I'd do.
Thanks for the crit
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Way to choppy, even more choppy than the last one, you need more in between frames to make it look smoother
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To be fair, the choppyness isn't really an issue I'm too worried about. This is for a flash game, and doesn't require a high (or standard) frame count for this sort of thing. Also, it'll work for the style of the game, which is great considering I have to get these done fairly quickly. I already know of the lower frame rate and would prefer to do it on two rather than threes like I am now, but it would be entirely counter-productive at this point, sad to say.
What I'm looking for is critique on the actual movement itself rather than it's smoothness. Just to see if the overall motion seems fairly natural and accurate, or at least believable, and that the anatomy is correct.
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I only saw one problem with it and that was the choppiness, if I saw any other issues, believe me, I would of told you.
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Cool cool, that's fair enough
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hmm, only real thing that could be im proved is the shape of the lower but as the chest would curve inwards slightly towards the belly area!
Still an impressive animation!
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Cool, thanks for pointing that out
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BiIIIIIIg improvement on the last one, and the last one wasn't all that bad either. The tail seems to be dead weight (as it should look). All in all, it's quite convincing for an animation. Nice work.
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Looks a lot better, but I'm afraid I can only second comments others have made.
The rear doesn't seem to move enough. The shape of the main body seems a little blocky, too. (But, again, I've only seen skinny-ass lions before...well fed ones might look different)
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There seems to be some variation, but in general lions tend to be rather bulky as opposed to the slenderness of smaller cats. I guess that's how you know that they're the King's of the cats
You right that the rear isn't moving quite enough, which I did notice, but I'll just have to go along with it for now. It won't be too important for it's purpose in the game it's for, it's just so I know how to do it right
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Excellent! I think the only thing that could be added is a single 1 sec flick of the tail. Kinda like a twitch. most cats, even big ones, will have a reactive twitch in their tail. maybe change up the head motion too to add a different movement just once. Something like a head shutter? Just ideas that pop into my head.
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