HOME | DD
godstaff — Fortress of Multitude
#comics #superheroes #superman #fortressofsolitude #wonder_woman
Published: 2019-08-17 05:02:01 +0000 UTC; Views: 2728; Favourites: 49; Downloads: 4
Redirect to original
Description
“…and finally, ending our tour of the Fortress of Multitude, we have a glimpse of the Kent-Prince household, finding the family gathered in a bucolic scene at the living room of the residence.
The parents, Diana and Clark, fresh from their job and still wearing work attires, proudly contemplate their children: baby Aster, very focused playing with cubes, and the eldest, the always opinionated Selene, reading for the tenth time (in an hour) the complete “Harry Potter”, a story about kids doing impossible and amazing things, which fascinates her, while the family dog and official nanny, Krypto, guards them playing with his favorite chewing pers…eer, toy.”
Related content
Comments: 67
👍: 1 ⏩: 0
ah yes the dark knight returns
I mean I was pissed off at Miller for quite a while.
He was a kooky and hateful old man. The empahsis on the word WAS
But I forgive him because he made SuperWonder possible on his comics.
Because this kooky old man known as Frank Miller is a huge believer of SuperWonder
It's our only refuge after New-52 was destroyed by that Geoff John moron.
👍: 2 ⏩: 2
I have a complicated relationship with Mr. Miller: I hate what he did to Superman since TDKR: it was the straw that broke the mule's back and it was embraced by DC heads, that's why we have this caricature which are Superman and Batso we have today.
On the other hand, we have "Superwonder light", which is still rejected by TPTB, hence, of little use.
I don't forgive him: the scale is very tilted, still.
👍: 1 ⏩: 1
But Miller redeemed himself. He is no longer Xenophobic turd he used to be. He apologized for his views
Plus Superman had a shining moment in Master Race. You could even say Superman and Lara-El was the real hero of Master Race. Batman was the hero first act of Master Race.
Yes Miller ruined Superman character in Dark Knight Returns. But that was to highlight the dangers blind patriotism and nationalism-a message that I agree with.
Plus Superman overeagerness to become the govt puppet was well-explained in its sequel Dark Knight Strikes Again. It was a bad book with a bad artwork sure. But it explained why Superman became government puppet in the first place. If anything it allows us to understand him better. It redeems Superman character. Plus that Super sax scene is epic even in this day and age lol.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Miller could've used Captain Atom, a military man with a fascistic point of view, for all that and leave Supes the hell alone, but he wanted to show Batso defeating the Top Dog. I've said it repeatedly: in that book he also killed Joker, but the defeat of Superman was so important, nobody ever remembers that.
👍: 2 ⏩: 1
Now that you mention it Captain Atom does seem to make sense. In fact even I wanted to use Captain Atom as a prime example of fascistic or over-patriotic character as well.
Wait Joker's death was totally overshadowed by Superman defeat? Golly I didn't know that. But besides the obvious flaws of DKR series. Miller did made a compelling argument why Superman/Pairing more sense than Superman/Lois Lane. I can't really find the quote anywhere. But mate he's on our camp (SuperWonder). He just has different idea of how utilize Man of Steel. A bad idea but a different idea nonetheless. I mean Miller is 1000 times better than Geoff Johns (that traitor) who promoted SuperWonder initially but suddenly turned into anti-SuperWonder camp for no apparent reason.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Miller is not in Superman's team, though some would say he is a Superwonder supporter, because he portrayed them together or almost , in various works. Even in "All-Star Batman and Robin" he hinted some attraction between them.
But he doesn't have a clue of what Superman is, proof of that is the new "Superman: Year One", where his depiction is a hard departure from the character, at best.
Don't get me started on Geoff Johns: the man is only interested in making money.
👍: 1 ⏩: 1
Well I guess its impossible to convince you on Miller merits. But I need to make an honest confession here. I'm a Miller fan.The reason I like Miller is because I started to love Batman because of Miller. I liked Justice League Unlimited and I liked Nolan movies even more. But none of those franchise ever made me adore as a Batman character. Infact I had a mild dislike towards the character. It was Miller works honestly that made me fall in love with Batman as a character. His pain, his implied pychopathic tendency and his Batman persona being the only thing that keeping the suicidal man alive all made empathize with Batman struggles. So I started to like Batman because of Miller. Heck recently I even watched Batman The Animated Series and Tim Burton Batman and it reminded me why I hated Batman in the first place (without Miller Batman is a boring character). Miller changed my views on Batman. Yeah I can clearly he's not a good Superman writer amongst Supey community.
Hey I'm just curious what's your view on New-52 Superman. He was a slight departure on traditional Superman as well.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Batso is okay as long as he doesn't interact with other heroes, because they, DC, turn him into "top dog" and indisputable boss of everyone, which I honestly hate with all my heart. I can let all the exaggerations pass when he's alone.
As I said, anybody can enjoy what they want: if you like Miller, who am I to cast an opinion about it?
Superman N52 was a shout in the right direction: it was well portrayed in "Action Comics" and "Superman/Wonder Woman", but in the Superman's own title was the same old crap, same as in JL, that's why it failed. There was no consistency, that's why it didn't succedded. Impossible to develop a character properly if every title shows a different version.
👍: 1 ⏩: 1
Oh yeah I know what you mean by "top dog". The Infamous BatGod.
"And pretty sure Justice League Unlimited was filled those bad Batgod moments. Superman being turned into jobber in the series.
"Superman's own title was the same old crap, same as in JL, that's why it failed"
So New-52 did failed huh. But what about Rebirth? Every title of Rebirth is inferior to New-52. Rebirth Wonder Woman by Greg Rucka is considered inferior to Azzarello Wonder Woman run in the New-52 by Wonder Woman fans. Bendis Superman still draws many ppl ire. Steve King Batman is clearly inferior to Snyder New52 Batman. And Bryan Hitch Rebirth Justice League actually flopped in terms of Sales. So is Rebirth still more successful in sales wise to New-52? Or Rebirth success harped by non-comic book buying fake fans of DC?
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
N52 was meant to fail. It was plan B in case DC couldn't get an agreement with the estates of Siegel & Shuster over the rights of some characters, like Lois Lane. When they reached that deal, immediately killed N52 Superman and terminated the New 52. Mercilessly.
New 52 was filled with good and interesting ideas, but DC never developed them, they opted for the traditional version of Superman, from 30 years ago. Playing safe.
Sales didn't went up, though, not even when they decided to make retailers turn back the unsold issues, make two releases per month and so on. Rebirth is another big failure, without new ideas. This time, it may be fatal.
👍: 2 ⏩: 1
"New 52 was plan B in case DC couldn't get an agreement with the estates of Siegel & Shuster over the rights of some characters, like Lois Lane. When they reached that deal, immediately killed N52 Superman and terminated the New 52. Mercilessly."
~So the New 52 was never a failure in terms of sales. In fact when New 52 started Dc gained a ton of market share as a result. New 52 was a plan B all along. As a backup if DC can't get permission from Seigel & Schuster estate. Actually this explanation of your makes ton of sense now. I don't know how to feel about this Plan B. It was if they are treating SuperWonder as an expendable asset. And yeah thank you for answering this lingering question of mine. Everything make sense. But I'm disappointed in realizng it was Plan B all along.
"Sales didn't went up, though, not even when they decided to make retailers turn back the unsold issues, make two releases per month and so on. Rebirth is another big failure, without new ideas."
At least we can safely assume that New-52 had better sales than Rebirth.
Also I suspect Geoff Johns the traitor has already planned on rebooting Rebirth second time in a row with Doomsday Clock event comics. Talk about dishonoring Allan Moore "Watchmen"again.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
New 52 needed a little love and it never got it, they all dismissed it little after its inception. It was a radically new idea, but many inside DC's ranks resisted it and wanted to stick with the old universe. N52 was like Tupac Amaru, each extremity pulled by a horse in different directions.
Rebirth is returning to their comfort zone: something that was a hit once upon a time, long ago, but now is outdated. They put all the bets on the nostalgia of old readers, "long boxes" fans, as Johns put it. But those are not enough to keep the company afloat.
👍: 1 ⏩: 1
Well yeah N52 needed tons of love. On retrospect it fixed lot of mess from "New Earth". The Action Comics by Grant Morrison was superb. Scott Snyder Batman is considered even better than Grant Morrison Batman run. Aquaman transformed from a Joke Character to well respected character thanks to N52. N52 Justice League run was better than Rebirth Justice League run.
"Rebirth is returning to their comfort zone: something that was a hit once upon a time, long ago, but now is outdated. They put all the bets on the nostalgia of old readers, "long boxes" fans, as Johns put it. But those are not enough to keep the company afloat."
~I'm so glad Rebirth is failing right now. Yes those ideas were outdated. Just because of nostalgia they dared to remove some of the best developments from N52. Lex Luthor becoming a villain again just because nostalgia demands it. All that powerful character development flushed away. You know what? Even the "fiercest of haters of New52" are no longer defending "Rebirth" as they used to. In fact those "New52 haters" although would never admit New52 was better but they're atleast honest enough to admit that "Rebirth" Wonder Woman, Batman and Superman titles are crap now.
Although I'm happy with Rebirth failure but I still hate the permanent damage it did to the DC universe. Johnathan Samuel Kent (who came out in 2015) becoming a canon character instead of Johnathan Kent from Kingdom Come (1999). I mean that fakester is using the same name and is more canon than the real Johnathan Kent? How horrible is that. How the entire notion is an insult. Even in "New Earth" or Post Crisis Superman was married to Lois Lane but it was honest in that regard Supey is never going to have a child Lois Lane. Thanks to Rebirth impossible became the possible.
👍: 1 ⏩: 1
N52 dared. It dared to be different, to try new things. But, since they were never meant to last, they didn't invest much thinking and effort on them: they were failed experiments from the very beginning. N52 was far from perfect, but was a good starting point, DC never cared much about it and abandoned it shortly after they launched it.
I didn't like Azzarello's Wonder Woman, he seemed to me like Bendis is now: an egocentric moron desperate to leave his mark on the character he's writing for. And they do it not resorting to good storytelling, but by needlessly changing things like the character's origin, i.e.: Diana became daughter of Zeus and Superman's father escaped Krypton destruction, to name only two, which don't add to the persona of the hero. it's only to show how bold the writer is.
There's this paradox with the birth of the current Jon Kent: Convergence existed because of the New 52, and Jon was born because Superman lost his powers during the convergence event. But they later said N52 never existed, it was an illusion created by some powerful entity, which they never clearly specified. No New 52: no Convergence. No Convergence: no Jonnathan Kent.
Besides, even if Supes lost his powers, he's still alien, with alien DNA. How does it make him compatible with human Lois for procreation?
"Thanks to Rebirth impossible became the possible."
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
"N52 dared. It dared to be different, to try new things. But, since they were never meant to last, they didn't invest much thinking and effort on them: they were failed experiments from the very beginning. N52 was far from perfect, but was a good starting point, DC never cared much about it and abandoned it shortly after they launched it."
~I mean you can never come up with perfect ideas on the first try. In fact some of the best ideas are actually "revising a medicore idea and than turning into a better idea". What matters is that you develop those new ideas. Than turn those medicore ideas turn into great idea.
Look at how X-Men or Daredevil started? It was a flop under Stan Lee. But those franchises became hit when it was developed by better writers like Chris Claremont and Frank Miller and they became biggest comic book for Marvel during the 80s. And the New52 could've easily became great if it was further developed. I mean look at Ghost In The Shell. The Original Manga was average. But it was developed by a capable director and the "The Ghost In The Shell Movies" became hallmark for animated movies. The moral is you never have great ideas in the beginning. You just develop and work on those average ideas and turn into a great idea.
"I didn't like Azzarello's Wonder Woman, he seemed to me like Bendis is now: an egocentric moron desperate to leave his mark on the character he's writing for. And they do it not resorting to good storytelling, but by needlessly changing things like the character's origin, i.e.: Diana became daughter of Zeus and Superman's father escaped Krypton destruction, to name only two, which don't add to the persona of the hero. it's only to show how bold the writer is."
~Well at least the art work and especially the coloring were great in those Azzarello books. Even though you didn't liked the modification to Wondy origin story. You have to admit that New 52 Wondy comics are far better than her Rebirth comics. And regarding Bendis lol even ardent fans of Rebirth are complaining the not-so-great work he's doing for the series.
"There's this paradox with the birth of the current Jon Kent: Convergence existed because of the New 52, and Jon was born because Superman lost his powers during the convergence event. But they later said N52 never existed, it was an illusion created by some powerful entity, which they never clearly specified. No New 52: no Convergence. No Convergence: no Jonnathan Kent."
~Wow you're so knowledgeable sir. You're right John Samuel Kent is a paradox. No New52 no convergence which means no John Samuel Kent. But I bet Rebirth fanboys don't care about logic.
"Besides, even if Supes lost his powers, he's still alien, with alien DNA. How does it make him compatible with human Lois for procreation?"
~Erm maybe erm well DC said they were going tickle fans nostalgia with their Rebirth Initiative? Maybe DC are also trying tickle the fans nostalgia for fans' comic book stupidity as well lol
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Rebirth is the clear example everything is possible because nothing matters anymore, except what helps to sustain the narrative I (DC) am Trying to push.
Fortunately for Them, fans don't question too many things and just want to have a good time. They only make noise when DC messes with what they are madly passionate about, like the Lois and Clark romance. Emphasis on "madly".
👍: 1 ⏩: 1
"Fortunately for Them, fans don't question too many things and just want to have a good time. They only make noise when DC messes with what they are madly passionate about, like the Lois and Clark romance. Emphasis on "madly".
~I'm not really sure they are passionate about Lois and Clark romance. If my conspiracy theory is true. Than the majority of SuperWonder haters are BatWonder fans. It's like saying "not all SuperWonder haters are Clois fans but all of BatWonder fans are indeed SuperWonder haters." So those Batwonder fan or to be accurate Bat-harem fans think that if Superman committed to Lois Lane than their main man Batso can finally have Wonder Woman all to himself. Your prime example that human garbage known as Bruce Timm; Who removed Wonder Woman kiss to Superman and gave all her dialogues to Lois Lane (a minor character in the original comic) DC New Frontier adaption. Which is why is superior than Bruce Timm adapted garbage
👍: 2 ⏩: 1
Totally agree on Timm. He did one or two very good years of Batso:TAS, but his batcentric Jusstice League animated and his movies always were detrimental towards Superman and Wonder Woman, together or not, to pander to Batso audiences, who love him unconditionally.
Maybe you haven't been around Lork fans as much as I've been: they are a loud and poisonous fandom, eager to spread their venom around the comics world. They do not care much about Wonderbat, but if you somehow touch their beloved Lois, all hell brakes loose.
👍: 2 ⏩: 1
"Totally agree on Timm. He did one or two very good years of Batso:TAS, but his batcentric Jusstice League animated and his movies always were detrimental towards Superman and Wonder Woman, together or not, to pander to Batso audiences, who love him unconditionally."
~that's not his only crime. There was not even single hint of Batwonder romance in the original "Justice League" series. But than in "Justice League Unlimited" came out of the blue and thus BatWonder ship was created that had no basis in the comics at all and was only introduced in Justice League Unlimited series to glorify Batman. What's worse is Bruce Timm adaptation of "Man Who Has Everything". It get praises from Batnerds for no reason at all. It was worse. It removed the clear political message Allan Moore story had, the dangers of racism, xenophobia and break down of father son relationship and replaced it with rehash of Krypton story. It was so weird to watch that episode (For the man who has everything) and to see Wondy crushing on Batman whereas in the actual comic Superman and Wonder Woman were an item.
Than I've heard that idiot Bruce Timm is the main reason why Kingdom Come was never adapted. He's for a fact is against SuperWonder pairing. Like how Bruce Timm removed any hints of SuperWonder in Dc New Frontier adaptation. But I hope Kingdom Come never gets adapted because it's not going give SuperWonder much exposure. Only a big budget live action movie of Kingdom Come is better for this pairing as it would normalize and expose this pairing to more ppl
"Maybe you haven't been around Lork fans as much as I've been: they are a loud and poisonous fandom, eager to spread their venom around the comics world. They do not care much about Wonderbat, but if you somehow touch their beloved Lois, all hell brakes loose".
~you're right I'm not as exposed to LORK fans as you're sir. So I'm guessing SuperWonder haters are both LORK fans and BatWonder fans. Both of them formed an unholy alliances to spew hate about this pairing and attack anyone who likes.
👍: 2 ⏩: 1
The only decent thing I've seen coming from Timm was "Justice League: Gods and Monsters", in which, strangely, he didn't put Batso in charge and he wasn't lucky in love either. Probably because it wasn't Bruce Wayne behind the mask. Still, there's almost no hint of a relationship between that Wonder Woman and Hernan's Superman. In the comics based on the movie, they were an item, but there was little participation of B.T. on them. In short: Timm is an a-hole.
Oh, yeah: "For the man..." is a seminal opus from master Moore. His depiction of Kryptonian society was unique at the time and marked a precedent widely copied and adapted afterwards, even in the TV series "Krypton".
Good thing about the books is Batso is useless and there's huge participation of Jason-Robin, not featured at all in the animation, so Batso could have more relevance. Besides, the comic book came out before TDKR and there was no need to make everything about him.
If you ask me, I'm glad we don't have KC made by this team and this administration in WB/DC. I rather wait until more capable and less biased people are in charge, someone who, at least, likes Supes. Next year we'll have "Red Son" released, and I fear what will come out of it. True, in the comic book series, Tovarishch Clarkov is an asshole towards Diana, who gave up her youth to protect him, I really don't know if they will meet at all in the animation.
👍: 1 ⏩: 1
"The only decent thing I've seen coming from Timm was "Justice League: Gods and Monsters", in which, strangely, he didn't put Batso in charge and he wasn't lucky in love either. Probably because it wasn't Bruce Wayne behind the mask. Still, there's almost no hint of a relationship between that Wonder Woman and Hernan's Superman. In the comics based on the movie, they were an item, but there was little participation of B.T. on them. In short: Timm is an a-hole."
~Oh yes I've seen Gods and Monster. It was so good. It felt like as if it was written by Mark Millar. It felt like Ultimates. But unlike Ultimates Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman had a genuine bond with one another'. And let's not give that Bruce Timm much credit as it was written by two more people. But holy smoke Hernan Guera is a badass and Langstrom was really sympathetic 9(Michael C. Hall did a good job there voicing him). And yes I have read God and Monster comics as well. Wondy and Hernan have a lovely dynamic. With Bekka acting like overly aggressive and with Hernan knowing how to handle her. And it was even clear in the comic that he clearly loved Wondy to the point of sacrificing his life for her.
And yes Bruce Timm is an a-hole. I'm angry at him for creating that fake BatWonder ship in Justice League Unlimited. I'm even more angry at him how he ruined "Dc New Frontier" adaptation.
"adapted afterwards, even in the TV series "Krypton".
~Really? Did they show mature elements like "Sword of Rao" and his Jor-El bigotry.
"Good thing about the books is Batso is useless and there's huge participation of Jason-Robin, not featured at all in the animation, so Batso could have more relevance. Besides, the comic book came out before TDKR and there was no need to make everything about him."
~Ha! Yes Batso was indeed useless in that comic. I mean that was Mongol they were fighting against lol. I mean Wondy fist was broken after punching him. And Jason Todd was underrated hero of that story. In fact at that moment Jason Todd acted like Batgod in that story lol.
"If you ask me, I'm glad we don't have KC made by this team and this administration in WB/DC. I rather wait until more capable and less biased people are in charge, someone who, at least, likes Supes. Next year we'll have "Red Son" released, and I fear what will come out of it. True, in the comic book series, Tovarishch Clarkov is an asshole towards Diana, who gave up her youth to protect him, I really don't know if they will meet at all in the animation."
~I think Wondy and Superman will meet in the Red Son movie. I mean they can't ship Supey with Lois Lane can they? She was piratically his great great great great grandma lol; that would be incest lol. But the comic did gave some weird vibe. I don't know Mark Millar was thinking there. Anyways sir do you think that Mark Millar is on Superwonder camp? I mean he did wrote Jupiter's Legacy which was basically according to Millar was "story of Superman and Wonder Woman and their children".
Regarding Kingdom Come I don't think it need an animated adaptation. Because it would cost WB a lot of money. I'm also afraid since DC is against SuperWonder pairing right now they would retcon the some elements of the KC. I want an UNALTERED live action adaption of KC with Henry Cavil as the lead. No retcon and no changes to the story. The only changes I want is that they include more romantic scenes bw Superman and Wonder Woman. Apparently this what Mark Waid regrets the most in KC as Waid said that didn't include much romance bw Superman and Wonder Woman.
👍: 1 ⏩: 1
In the Krypton TV series there's a divided society, like in Moore's vision. Divided by class, religion, casts and politics. Not exactly the same, but its roots clearly are set in the comic book.
As for a live action KC: do you imagine the production cost of such endeavor? WB is not Marvel!They won't invest in something not Batso related if it's not a guaranteed success!
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
"In the Krypton TV series there's a divided society, like in Moore's vision. Divided by class, religion, casts and politics. Not exactly the same, but its roots clearly are set in the comic book."
~It does ring a bell of Moore's vision but with more creativity. That makes it already better than that shameless Bruce Timm version in "Justice League Unlimited". I'm gonna watch. Currently I'm watching Young Justice right now. And it's pretty good.
"As for a live action KC: do you imagine the production cost of such endeavor? WB is not Marvel!They won't invest in something not Batso related if it's not a guaranteed success!"
~Of course adapting KC as animated feature would impossible. Adapting Alex Ross beautiful art would be unprecedented and simply IMPOSSIBLE. Which is why I suggested it could be adapted as a you know "elseworld" live action movie in the similar vein to Joaquin Phoenix Joker. In fact that would be just perfect.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Anything is better the Timm's version of everything.
That KC adaptation has to be very creative to make it for the lack of a grandiose production.
👍: 1 ⏩: 0
Oh yeah I remember. That baby isn't Johnathan Kent aka Hyperman (ahhhh I forever hate the fact that this name is associated with that cheap knock-off Johnathan Samuel Lane-Kent). That was Clark and Diana baby at the end of "JLA: Act of God". An underrated elseworld story that is much maligned by the community for petty reason. Overall it was a great story and some of its minor components were being over-criticized by the critics. It was constrained by 3 issues; which didn't allowed readers to empathize with Wonder Woman and Superman demons. If it was 5 or 6 issues it would have been one of the most fondly remembered elseworld story.
Though I'm pretty sure the daughter is Lara Kent from Miller's Dark Knight Returns universe. Blue hair check and purple leggings check and being older than her baby brother check. That's the feisty Lara Kent alright.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I used those images because I wanted them to be recognizable offsprings of Diana and Clark, but made it clear in their names they are not the same ones, specially because I don't like legacy names as first. I allow them as middle names as homage to their ancestors. They are Selene Lara
Prince-Kent, kryptonian name Lena-El (traditionally Lena Kal-El, but Clark decided to end that misogynistic custom from his planet, encouraged by Diana, and treat his daughter like an independent being), and Aster Hippolytus Prince-Kent, a.k.a. Ter-El.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Well I love the new name for Lara Kent; Selene Lara Prince-Kent- I mean it still Lara Kent with a Selene. And Aster Hippolytus Prince-Kent. Dam son you already made a well developed ocs. I'm guessing Aster Prince-Kent is more fond of his Amazonian heritage in contrast Selene who is more fond on her kryptonian heritage lol.
I would really be interested in what new name you have in mind for Wonder Woman and Superman child Bruce Kent from "Distant Fires" lol? I mean Bruce Kent is interesting. He has genetic-defying light brown hair for some unexplained reason.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Selene is the Greek goddess of the Moon. Diana and Artemis (the Greek equivalent) where always associated with our main satellite. In some occasions, Selene and Artemis were considered the same. That's why I chose it.
Aster is Greek for "Star". Superman gets his powers from ours and he comes from the stars too, so I considered it fitting. Since the Kryptonian word for star is "Rao", I believe, I thought it would be best not to use it, since it's also their god's name. "Star", in English, seems like a girl's name, so Aster it is.
I'd turn a little more conventional: Avery Jorathan Prince-Kent, Ver- El.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
So in some instances Selene and Artemis were considered were the same interesting. And Artemis means Daiana in Greek mythology. Holy hell your Oc are even more well developed than I thought it would be. So kudos to you on that front.
Holy Heck. Aster means Star and Rao also means star in Kyrptonian. Man that must have taken a lot careful of deep thinking and tons of research on your part. How do you even manage to do that? Yeah using Rao would blasphemous.
So I was wrong here than. Aster Kent values his Kryptonian heritage more as oppose to his Amazonian heritage. Whereas Selene values her Amazzonian heritage more.
Hey I'm going off topic does Superman practice traditional Kryptonian religion? I know Superman does say "Thank Rao" when he appears in Diana fear-toxic induced dream but that's no way an indicator that Supey is follower of Raoism.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Thank you. There's a lot of data waiting to be found in the web.
"Holy Rao" and "Thank Rao" are just expressions: Superman's been in outer space, if someone would encounter a divinity among the stars, it's him. He found a lot of god-like beings, some self-referred as "New Gods", but none of them was worthy of a religious following from Kal-El's part.
Some humans think of him as a messianic figure, which he strongly rejects: he's not a savior, he's here to help, according his own words.
I use "Holy shit" a lot, without believing in the sanctity of human or animal bowel movement. It's just a figure of speech.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
So Superman isn't a member of any ALIEN religion.
"Some humans think of him as a messianic figure, which he strongly rejects: he's not a savior, he's here to help, according his own words."
Well Superman is a messianic figure. Both Captain Marvel/Shazam and Superman came off Jesus Christ like figure in Kingdom Come. Even though as you correctly point out that Supey would never consider himself as one.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
It's very human to idolize people or characters they deem superior, as if humans can't have goodness inside them. We humans are everything: the best and the worse. The fact we can conceive those notions is proof enough of it.
I, personally, don't like Superman as a religious icon: a hero, yes. A godlike figure, no.
Besides, there's this contradiction: in comics and films they present him as a demigod but anyone, starting with Batso, can kick his ass and be more intelligent? That's a very poor idea of the divinity, if you ask me.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Besides, there's this contradiction: in comics and films they present him as a demigod but anyone, starting with Batso, can kick his ass and be more intelligent? That's a very poor idea of the divinity, if you ask me."
~I agree everything you said earlier including this one. And yes Batso beating Superman time and time again is not only a poor way of portraying Superman divinity but it also has lost its appeal.
The reason Batso beating Superman worked so well in Miller DKR and it doesn't works on other instances is because during the 1980s Superman was the top dog. Not everyone can beat him except for Mongol or Darkseid. He was a literal demigod. And the powerful message DKR gave was "if you're motivated and hungry enough you can transcend not only your old age but also a demigod like Superman." But when writers starts beating Superman ass every Monday by Batgod and others time and time again make the whole notion lose its appeal. You can only outsmart a demigod ONCE but not twice or thrice or countless times. It becomes stupid from than on.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Batso beating Superman seemed outrageous from the start to me. It was a success only because that was the first time it happened. Batso's fans were ready for a change in the decaying figure of the bat at the time, and then TDKR came and fulfilled their dreams. Defeating Supes was the cherry on top. Miller still had a mildly functioning brain and his Ode to Batso was a well rounded story.
You are right: repetition is what corrupted the idea. Repetition can make the most entertaining and interesting things boring.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
"Batso beating Superman seemed outrageous from the start to me. It was a success only because that was the first time it happened. Batso's fans were ready for a change in the decaying figure of the bat at the time, and then TDKR came and fulfilled their dreams. Defeating Supes was the cherry on top. Miller still had a mildly functioning brain and his Ode to Batso was a well rounded story."
~Well my entire sibling including me are Superman fan. They actually felt insulted when Batman had beaten him in DKR. Except for me of course. Yes you're right about Batman being a decaying figure back than. He was losing his appeal. And couldn't connect the contemporary audience. Batman was usually thought of as either "Adam West Batman" or ummm "Phantom Clone".
"Miller still had a mildly functioning brain and his Ode to Batso was a well rounded story."
~I'm guessing you liked DKR especially the first half where he faces off against Joker and The Mutant Leader I suppose. The part you hated DKR where he faces off against fascist Superman and beats him.
"You are right: repetition is what corrupted the idea. Repetition can make the most entertaining and interesting things boring."
~Absolutely repetition is corruption. Later Batman beating Superman felt superficial because it was "PRIME BATMAN BEATING PRIME SUPERMAN". So it felt superficial continues to be superficial upto this day. Hence that was beginning of infamous Batgod legacy that DC fans in general hate Grant Morrison for.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Repetition can also provide a "safe zone" to audiences of cultural and entertaining events. I was told, once, I would never succeed as an artist because I didn't have a "theme" or a method in my work. I like to do and engage in many different subjects and techniques from work to work, and that doesn't seem to be consistent.
Same way, repetition is why many sitcoms are a hit, for instance, when the main character has a recurring catch phrase like Arnold's "What'you talking about, Willis?" or Joey's "How'you doing?", etc.
Still, I've been consistent with my obsession with Superman and Wonder Woman for years now, but if you see the comments in Tumblr and other sites, it's not precisely a success. Life is full of contradictions. Oh, well.
It seems Batso's rights belong in their entirety to DC, as opposed to those of Supes, which they have to share with S&S estate, that's why the bets are mainly on the Caped Crusader. All the money from the Bat goes to DC and Warner, Cha-ching!
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
"Repetition can also provide a "safe zone" to audiences of cultural and entertaining events. I was told, once, I would never succeed as an artist because I didn't have a "theme" or a method in my work. I like to do and engage in many different subjects and techniques from work to work, and that doesn't seem to be consistent. "
~Well it's a good thing you don't have those "method" or "theme". That means you're versatile unlike Rob Liefeld. I mean even layman including me knows what kind of "theme" or "method" Rob relies on. Cartoonish feet, pouches, cyborg, ponytail and really ugly faces. You can adapt to various situations and circumstances.
"What'you talking about, Willis?" or Joey's "How'you doing?", etc."
Well I learn everything new from you Godstaff everyday. Those new pop-culture knowledge for my quiver. I do know "how you doing though" lol. But I'm more in Chandler camp easily the best character in friends.
"Still, I've been consistent with my obsession with Superman and Wonder Woman for years now, but if you see the comments in Tumblr and other sites, it's not precisely a success. Life is full of contradictions. Oh, well"
~Well honestly I'm new to the SuperWonder train unlike you sir. I think I became fan thanks to Injustice Games. I know Injustice isn't a fair representation of both of their characters. Rather those games are character assassination. I just liked their dynamics despite being the bad guys. At least in Injustice 2 it's somewhat confirmed that Superman loves Wondy. Unlike in the comics there's a hint that Wondy is losing faith in Supes (DC is committed at doing Rebirth in Injustice Universe as well sigh). Though I have to say I first tilted towards SuperWonder couple thanks to "DC Universe Online" trailer; the one Luthor uses Wondy to kill Superman. I didn't became a SuperWonder believer back than but I was like "Superman romantically caring for Wondy man that's beautiful."
Don't worry sir you're doing fine. I actually found your works on pininterest. Some ppl have collected your works in their collection. So your works are appreciated in one way or another.
"It seems Batso's rights belong in their entirety to DC, as opposed to those of Supes, which they have to share with S&S estate, that's why the bets are mainly on the Caped Crusader. All the money from the Bat goes to DC and Warner, Cha-ching"
~True I guess DC has vested and financial interest in making Batso the top dog as Batso character rights belongs to DC exclusively. However I do think Batso push from DC also came as a result of Nolan movies and those overrated Rocksteady Batman games. Honestly majority of Batso fans came as a result of his games
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Thank you, but I'm not too worried about my fame XP. I try not to take myself very seriously.
There were signs of Batso's popularity before the games and Nolan films: the success of the graphic novels "The Long Halloween", "The Killing Joke" and others, alongside his leadership of the Justice League in comics and animation, are evidence of that. Nolan's "Batman Begins" took a few selected parts of "Batman: Year One" for instance.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
"Thank you, but I'm not too worried about my fame XP. I try not to take myself very seriously."
~You're welcome sir. And l actually saw your SuperWonder work featured on this SuperWonderful youtube video.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDFLH6…
Your work comes between 1:43-145 minutes into the video. I recognized your distinct text you use for your comics.
"There were signs of Batso's popularity before the games and Nolan films: the success of the graphic novels "The Long Halloween", "The Killing Joke" and others, alongside his leadership of the Justice League in comics and animation, are evidence of that. Nolan's "Batman Begins" took a few selected parts of "Batman: Year One" for instance."
~That really puts my theory redundant that Batman popularity is tied to his games and Nolan movies. But sir what I was implying is that. Superman can become super popular character if he has a popular game backing him. The problem with Superman is that it's super-hard for the developer to make a good Superman game. But it's not impossible. Just like Arkham series is a rip off of Assasin's Creed formula you could make a good Superman game by starring him in good JRPG game similar to Final Fantasy. You could also make a Superman game that's similar to "Zone of Enders" formula by Hideo Kojima. You just need to give a Superman game a proper identity.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Thank you for noticing that in the video, It's just a glimpse,though. I've seen videos where my images were more prominently displayed.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-eLoh…
min 1:45-1:49, 3:01-3:07 and 4:06-4:10.
IMHO, most Superman games failed because of two factors: there's no love from game developers towards Supes (the majority of them prefer Batso, because he's dark and violent, ideal for games), and they don't understand him. They insist to put him here on an Earth's environment, seriously limiting the range of prowess he can do, and they want always to have him be with the same people: Lois, Luthor, Metropolis. Just like the movies.
Boring and overdone.
I think a game about Supes should take place in outer space, fighting the likes of Darkseid, Mongul, Brainiac, stopping an alien invasion surrounded by landscapes from Apokolips, War World, Brainiac's collector ship. Unleashing the potential of the Kryptonian.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
"Thank you for noticing that in the video, It's just a glimpse,though. I've seen videos where my images were more prominently displayed.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-eLoh…
min 1:45-1:49, 3:01-3:07 and 4:06-4:10."
~ oh this video features your art that was inspired from "Throne of Atlantis" I love that scene. It's my opinion but I believe that Justice League movies developed Diana and Clark relationship relatively more than the comics. Although those movies follow New-52 Justice League plot beat by beat but they added so many scenes of them together. And the movie added more richness to their relationship
"MHO, most Superman games failed because of two factors: there's no love from game developers towards Supes (the majority of them prefer Batso, because he's dark and violent, ideal for games), and they don't understand him. They insist to put him here on an Earth's environment, seriously limiting the range of prowess he can do, and they want always to have him be with the same people: Lois, Luthor, Metropolis. Just like the movies."
~True true. Part of the reason is that DC license Superman games to either inexperienced team or unknown developers who don't invest much money in his game. And I agree on Superman adventure should be based on space. Which is why I suggested they could make a Superman game similar to this one called Zone of Enders .
www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFmfyg…
The game footage starts around at 2:22 minutes. In fact DC could hand over the keys to the game development to the same team. They don't even spend a lot of money if they're going to make a good Superman similar to this one
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I love the aesthetics of the graphics and the insane pace things move. With a good backup story and a worthy villain, that Superman game should be a winner. Unfortunately, there's no love and no imagination. Hell, if Batso can punch a shark in the nose, why can't Superman engage an intergalactic beast, or several?
Also, is a matter of fans willing to play the game: for many people, if you take Superman out of Metropolis, they hardly recognize him.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
"I love the aesthetics of the graphics and the insane pace things move. With a good backup story and a worthy villain, that Superman game should be a winner. Unfortunately, there's no love and no imagination. Hell, if Batso can punch a shark in the nose, why can't Superman engage an intergalactic beast, or several?"
~I know right. The graphics and the insane pace of Zone of Enders would totally suit a Superman game. The rouge gallery are not a major problem here. You've got sun-eater and its creator the Controllers, brainiac or the Colu Army, black adam but I would love seeing either Sinestro corps or Black Lantern corps (again I hate quoting the works of that Judas Geoff Johns here). Heck why not use Mongol and his War-World as it would be perfect for any Superman space adventure game. And Superman can collaborate with Wondy, Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner and Guy Gardner especially), booster gold and even Shazam. My headcanon is that Supes is best buddy with Shazam. So I love Superman teaming up with Shazam in that game.
"Also, is a matter of fans willing to play the game: for many people, if you take Superman out of Metropolis, they hardly recognize him."
~yeah that could be true. But than again fans fickle aren't they. They didn't cared about a ridiculous idea like "Batman Arkham CITY"? I mean just how stupid the entire idea of ARKHAM CITY is. But as long as game is good they didn't care. And if Supey is placed in a space adventure in a video game and that video game is good those fickle fans won't care.
Anyways sir do you recall ever playing Superman Returns game? Although Superman Returns game was decent. It had good ideas. But like you said keeping the Superman Returns restricted to to Metropolis killed it. Plus it had no story in that game at all. It felt like an incomplete game.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I'm afraid I don't play video games. I have to decide if I don't because I suck at it or I suck at it because I don't play. Anyway, it's not my thing. I can, though, understand the mentality of the players and their tastes based in what games are successful.
And I can certainly know why almost everything Superman related is bad: there's little understanding of the character and its potential. There's this general idea Supes has to be the same he was in the last 50 years, no evolution at all, rather an involution, like making Clark a wide eye farm-boy in the big city, always star stricken by the amazing Lois and everything she does.
He used to date different women and had an independent and powerful mind.
People started to perceive him as something of the past, and perception is everything: once you get the label on, it's impossible to take it off without major effort. That effort is absent, so people reject Superman..
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
"I'm afraid I don't play video games. I have to decide if I don't because I suck at it or I suck at it because I don't play. Anyway, it's not my thing. I can, though, understand the mentality of the players and their tastes based in what games are successful."
~I'm just suggesting that a good Superman game could contribute to Superman popularity and make it a level playing field with Batman. I mean some of the most popular heroes always has good games backing them up; because gamers make a huge part of Superheroes fandom unfortunately. I mean Spiderman always has good games from Ps1 era right upto Ps4. Batman has Arkham series backing him up. I just thought a good Superman games is what Superman needs
"And I can certainly know why almost everything Superman related is bad: there's little understanding of the character and its potential. There's this general idea Supes has to be the same he was in the last 50 years, no evolution at all, rather an involution, like making Clark a wide eye farm-boy in the big city, always star stricken by the amazing Lois and everything she does."
~On the point regarding involution I totally agree. One of the reason why Batman became such a pop culture phenomena was because of his evolution of his character from "Adam West and 70s comics" cheesy Batman to the Dark Knight by Frank Miller; Batman evolved thanks to Miller and other writers in 80s. Superman never did. Superman did evolved in "Elseworld" stories like KC but never in main DC comics he never. And nu-52 especially presented a great opportunity for Superman character to evolve and evolved he did but involution came in the form "Rebirth" and now "Rebirth" and thereby throwing every development of the Superman out of the window.
Regarding "Rebirth" sir. I've found an interesting video from "Owen Likes Comics" called "Rise and Fall of New-52". What happened was that in the comment section of the video. Ppl as always were trying to spew their hate for New-52 but at the same time tried to justify Rebirth. Various ppl were coming up with different theories why Rebirth was failing; "Rebirth is the best thing ever. It's bad writer that are failing Rebirth" and other theories similar to that lol without ever admitting that Rebirth itself was trash idea to begin with.
One guy said "Rebirth is great. But Brian Michael Bendis is holding back Superman. Why would Superman leave his wife and child just to meet his evil father in outer space. It was so heartless of Superman." I mean if the guy was any self-aware did he not realize that Lois Lane holds back Superman character for telling good stories. E.g if Lois Lane wasn't Supey wife in the very same story, Superman wouldn't be looking like a major jerk there. Basically Lois Lane is a barrier to telling good stories for Superman.
"He used to date different women and had an independent and powerful mind."
~Ah yes. I've read somewhere that Superman never married or even dated Lois Lane during pre-crisis era. With Lois Lane always chasing Superman while ignoring Clark Kent. It's only in Rebirth and Post-Crisis Superman married Lois Lane sigh. So yes he dated various women during the pre-crisis era.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Yes: a good game does a lot for a comic book character, and vice versa: a trending favorite character is a great motivation to develop a good game. Not the case of Superman since video games exist.
I've posted a video about N52
godstaff.tumblr.com/post/18796…
In which the host says something very accurate: It failed, mostly, because there wasn't any vision and planning from the heads of DC comics.
Bad writing is not the main problem of 'rebirth', the entire idea of going back to what they consider "classic" DCU is a lousy idea to begin with. A retrograde universe is never a good idea.
As for N52, besides the lack of planning and vision, bad writing had an important role in its demise: a decent idea without development amounts for nothing.
Bendis is not holding back Supes: he is taking him to the past. His Superman is the same from 25 years ago but worse. He's imprisoning him in amber forever.
Lois Lane is one of the main reasons of Supes stagnation: because of her he can't move from the Daily Planet, Metropolis, his perpetual farm-boy image, a counterproductive marriage, he's got to be stupid in order not to outshine her, and he's stuck here on Earth unless he is accused of coldly abandon her and their son. In short: she's the main obstacle for Superman's evolution.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
| Next =>