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griffsnuff In reply to BEG0NlA [2018-11-02 05:16:22 +0000 UTC]

 I have said it before, public customs will not open until the core game is finished, this includes power systems, passives, numbers, and stats. I can't focus on both since one is taking all my time, and it is unfair to expect I can do both because I can't, simple as that.  I am not leaving the game in the middle of getting a rehaul to go work on customs ever again. ( already did that)

At this moment in time I don't want to do customs publicly or open them because it is a lot more work than I want to devote to it right now, and for me personally does not sound very tempting, I want the ARPG to be streamlined. Doing customs/trades/gifts for friends, co-workers and people I talk to alot is half the work because I know their esthetics and often know them as people, so that means I at least can earn some of the things I want while working on this game, it has nothing to do with everyone else being pushed aside. 

If customs are what people want, then I am sorry to disappoint you and whoever is reading, they are not opening any time soon and will not open until Core systems are done. And at this time I do not have an estimate on when that is. This is at least the facts and not something someone assumed.

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BEG0NlA In reply to griffsnuff [2018-11-02 20:14:00 +0000 UTC]

No offense but you had to make a journal in which you stated that you never officially made an announcement on your stance on customs so your "i said it before" is attitude that is unnecessary. I understand being frustrated but I never heard of this beforehand so its a little unwarranted lol. Also i'd like to point out that customs were stuff that were assumed to be done at some point because you've explicitly stated so in 2017 "customs will be open in 2018 sometime!!"  and how you opened them in july also saying you would be opening a new journal each month for customs and completely dropped off the map on that end. These are also facts, and not something you've assumed. stated with just emphasis nothing else

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griffsnuff In reply to BEG0NlA [2018-11-02 22:47:39 +0000 UTC]

Information isn't always made in journals anymore because i talk in so many different areas, especially discord, and since starting griffia I've used  them less and less, its actually hard to keep track of everything, at least I made a journal in the end to address it, I can't fix the fact that  I am forgetful, When you work on something every day without a major break for almost 3 years, 7 months feels like nothing, which is less than when I made my july custom journals. So yes I apologize for not getting it up sooner, it just did not even occur to me and that is the honest truth. To me, it was obvious that working on the game and making updates was enough of a reason to say I'm busy with it, but that was my own fault for assuming people would see it the same way. Now I know xD Now that I know people want more updates in a journal, I will make sure that happens more often! >u👍: 0 ⏩: 1

BEG0NlA In reply to griffsnuff [2018-11-02 23:33:08 +0000 UTC]

That isn't a problem and is understandable, and I've acknowledged a journal was made I'd just appreciate if it wasn't taken out on a member. You are human but you also have expectations given your current position in regards to how you act, you can't change them, only do your best to own up to them and being snippy with someone (imagine a new member entering this and trying to state an issue only to a fairly aggressive response because it was brought up) leaves a sour taste for what you represent and do. I'd also like to point out that being forgetful is understandable, and working so long without a break yes things get misplaced or forgotten in the rush, and I am glad to hear that you are doing your best to remedy that now, but the way you word that sounds a little like a guilt trip/defensive you should work on that. A better statement would possibly be "Unfortunately I tend to be very forgetful and wasn't aware I hadn't made a public announcement on the journal so everyone or close to everyone is on the same page. In hindsight the 7 month interval between what I first stated and what I feel now completely escaped my notice since we've been currently working on this for almost 3 years now and I apologize for not being aware of it and bringing this up sooner." it sounds more gentle and understanding or reassuring this way. You may not be the current face of customer service but you are one of them.

I hope to see you are just as receptive in the future to criticism and continue to make improvements in keeping the community updated on the on-goings of the species! People are very interested and love to hear what is to be said or done with the species. It makes people feel more involved, even if it's just toying around with ideas or concepts. People really do love the species and stick around with hope and desire to see what happens next but that only lasts so long when things turn more disappointing than they do rewarding and nothing lasts forever. I may also point out some things in the response below if you do not mind it being brought up for you to consider over and decide where to go from there since you are very open to feedback and seeing things improve! Maybe after so there will less of a 'riot' so to speak because of a misunderstanding in the future. Thank you for your response! ♡

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ZenniLynn In reply to BEG0NlA [2018-11-01 23:31:46 +0000 UTC]

+1 
It doesn't give a good message to your community if you dangle the fantasy of monthly custom lotteries to your community if you don't do any rolls, especially if you're offering customs to just your own close friend circle. I recommend being careful, because the public customs are starting to sound like a lie, and I'm not sure the community would react well to being teased to such an extent.

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BEG0NlA In reply to ZenniLynn [2018-11-02 22:45:04 +0000 UTC]

no message is also a statement and isn't a good one, especially if you are a self-designated CEO. One that was clear after July that there was no interest in doing anything for the community regarding customs. I think it was a long time coming that people are speaking up about it since they shouldn't have to take this shit from the business they are trying to support y`know? People are already calling her a con-artist so you have good intentions at heart and I respect that but I also want to say it feels a too little too late on her end for warnings and there doesn't seem to be any interest in listening from the community for a 180 degree on the group from griff to be more show instead of tell.

thanks for your input i appreciate it, just wish the creator did too

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ZenniLynn In reply to BEG0NlA [2018-11-02 23:01:47 +0000 UTC]

I don't think I would go so far as to call her a con-artist. I do believe she is trying to run a good game, but some of the methods used in keeping things fun and fresh for all involved do more harm than good. I say this in a general sense, and not in regards to the whole customs issue. It's fine to do what you want when you want since it's a thing of your creation, but if you don't lay down some rules of etiquette for yourself, a full business will wither down to something that's more of a hobby.

So many good members have left or have taken a long step back. The ones who are upset still linger because they have hope of a brighter future. It's not just because the game itself needs reworking (something Tina has made sure we know she's working on) but it's because of the etiquette of those at the top. Unnecessary changes at a whim rattle customer confidence in the product being provided. Empty promises leave them forlorn and confused. Why do any activity if there's no confidence that it'll still be there later? 

I do believe Tina is at least considering our words. There's no possible way she hasn't read this, considering it's on her deviation and she's been actively replying to us. As long as we speak our minds in a diplomatic sense then we will be heard. Like she told Jharicot down below, if no one actually comes forth and says something, she doesn't realize what's happening.

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BEG0NlA In reply to ZenniLynn [2018-11-03 00:06:35 +0000 UTC]

I don't think I would yet either, but her reputation is becoming dangerously unstable and unreliable. People are not going to invest in something, or someone they cannot trust and I wanted to emphasize that, my apologies if anything got misunderstood there. It feels a little to late for warnings since I've seen and heard people bring up concerns only to be brushed off which now those consequences are playing catch up and it doesn't feel like its worth the effort to bring up anything if its faced with the same dismissive or defensive stance. "Just wait" doesn't work with people losing their patience.

I do agree though, but it seems this business has been more of a dedicated hobby than an actual business with the way things have been conducted or addressed since a lot of things lack professionalism you would expect of a business. I also have noticed that as well. Many members have already left, or that were once super active have stopped participating. That is the part that admittedly confuses me. She didn't know, and wasn't aware, but how removed are you from your game that you don't realize there aren't any familiar faces you use to see all the time during auctions or how people who use to draw all the time have stopped. That things have slowed to a noticeable degree and only a handful of people are currently still doing the ARPG. Even the favorites helps that to some degree since pattern recognition has you familiarize yourself with active artists in the community. But I suppose that explains why she is unaware of how unhappy her fanbase is if she is so removed from interacting with them she doesn't realize it has shrunk.

But that is the issue isn't it? Why isn't she aware of what is happening in her game? What can she do to improve that because she isn't available in the discord, messages or concerns are asked to be directed to HR and certain topics are censored because nothing can be brought up about it. Personally I think she can say it however she likes about the community to put herself on the moral high-ground but nothing can be said to her or the group without being shut down or redirected elsewhere for the most part. Can't exactly come forth and say something if we do not have the opportunity to do so. I only posted my comment here because it was relevant with the proof just a couple comments below. I'd also like to point out hearing and listening are two different things. Reading what you've said, but taking it in and thinking how to solve the issue that is being presented and putting measures in place towards said solution speaks louder than a defensive response. Another thing i'd also like the point out in regards to your last statement; they removed the +1 feature for the feedback box. I understand it would be clogged but she didn't realize so many people were upset - she makes it hard to show as much since they've stated they don't care how many people agree or approve since everything will be considered 'equally', but you can't know if so many people are upset if only one person is allowed to voice a complaint. I guess at the end of this what im trying to say is I don't think she's worth defending here since granted she is in a position that takes up her time and things wind up skipped, misunderstood or otherwise but she has placed the community in a position where it is difficult or just virtually impossible to bring those concerns up. I mean you can bring up HR if you want but I think we both know and a lot of people in the community are aware of how much of a disaster that is so.

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griffsnuff In reply to ZenniLynn [2018-11-02 05:18:16 +0000 UTC]

What is more important to you personally the game or customs? Because from what you are writing here it seems like you think I can do both. And I cant.

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ZenniLynn In reply to griffsnuff [2018-11-02 10:43:57 +0000 UTC]

To me what's more important is the happiness of the bagbean community. I don't need or want any customs personally, but I know many in the community are starved for it. They are falling into toxic mindsets from false hope and bitterness due to the fact that demand for bagbeans really beats out the supply. People put hope in the concept of MYOs and customs to see their ideas blossom, only to see that your inner circle are the only ones allowed frequent chances at customs. I understand how doing customs for strangers wouldn't be as personally rewarding as doing it for friends you know, but please keep in mind that this sort of behavior breeds jealousy and upset.

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griffsnuff In reply to ZenniLynn [2018-11-02 16:13:17 +0000 UTC]

Related and unrelated wall incoming 

what it seems like you are implying (this just sounds like a typical assumption so correct me if I am wrong, I am just curious) that the people who keep me going, the people who support me not just financially but emotionally do not deserve getting gifts or be able to do trades with me at all if I am not opening it for everyone? Because most of what I make for my "inner circle" are gifts. Giving gifts to people who care about me makes me happy, Being happy makes me be able to work on griffia without earning a single penny.  It's easy to point and say yes these 4 people get more than these 4000 people. But I am pretty sure the number of gifts and trades I have done for the community and my "friends" are pretty equal, especially after I started griffia. It just seems different because there are more people on one side of the field than other. It is impossible to treat two groups of people equally when the difference is that big. And it would be pretty ridiculous to say I can only do 1 gift for friends per 1000 gifts for the community xD unless that is actually what you think I should do, I would not agree with you.

  I am just a bit confused because the number of bagbeans given out now to people is way higher than before, especially free ones and love beans. I found solutions to keep the demand as satisfying as I can by giving out more types of love items, making sure they don't affect the rarity, more ways to earn love items. hiring more GA to help do love items so I don't have to shut it down at all, have specific events were all GA can make more griffians, but sometimes it feels like there are no pleasing certain groups of people. And that is not something that defines my community or you or anyone specific, that is just a common human trait some people have and that exists in every single community out there. This demand is impossible to quench. It happens to collectibles all the time, where they don't make enough and people get mad they missed out. That does not make that collection of things toxic nor does it make a community toxic because it has people like it in there. I am pretty sure it is impossible to be part of anything that has a lot of people in it, which is very open and not have that happen every so often. It's just normal. Its also not something you can turn on and off in people, because the more you give, the bigger this demand grows as well. This is why every new thing that starts out is all happy and awesome, and the bigger it grows the louder people scream. I experience more dissatisfied people now that I give 10 times as many gifts. The more I give, the more people complain.  Having something to blame, gives people a sence of justified anger. if I spread out every gift to only sprouts, there would be another reason to be mad. I have been on dA long enough to see a pattern in this.

Doing customs has nothing to do with my personal reward, it was all about to do with being easier. This custom was a complete random desire to get GC so I can play my own game, nox so happen to be in the chat at the same time. That took me 2 minutes, compared to making a GC journal, numbering, losing art motivation and choosing a winner, and not do that art for days. I choose easy as simple as that. And every time I do, it is this huge deal and a huge conspiracy to the point where rumors start spreading, and people being put under the spotlight and blamed for something that is not even the truth. I work on griffia from the minute I wake up til I go to bed, that is how much time it takes fixing this ARPG and making sure it still runs, so yes I will do trades or sales with people who are around if I want a specific thing, need help with money, or just want to do trades, this includes griffia items and GC. Its the same thing as your friend having a snack you want, you ask them what do they want for it and you do a trade for it, be it money, items, or another snack. Imagine if your entire neighborhood got mad every time you didn't offer that snack to them as well. (Bad metaphor I know, I suck at strawman things) But at this point, that is what it feels like.  I am just one person, and I can only do one thing at a time. 

Sometimes people seem more ok with me doing trades for characters, or items than doing it for money, which just baffles me since getting an item or getting GC, or money is pretty similar, you get something and give something. It's not the first time I have done this either, I did a trade with a sprout for a very similar reason to get items I wanted before time loot, and its a sprout I talk to, so it doesn't have to be a mod or someone I was close to, to do the same thing. They had what I wanted, at the time I wanted it. 

Making assumptions and rumors about this or that builds anger, jealousy, frustration, and toxic feelings even more so, and not just in ourselves, but the people who are part of it.  When it is a team of people doing it together. Sometimes to the point where it goes too far and hurts people, and sometimes to the point were every tiny mistake is blown out of proportion, ridiculed, and made into something it's not just so the group can feel better about themselves, it's not just a griffia thing, it's a human thing. We all do it, even more so when we don't agree with something. Mob mentality is real, and it is very damaging to those who do it and those around them, sometimes its even hard to know if your part of one, because it seems like harmless ranting among friends and a lot of reasons are created to justify it. I fully believe if something makes someone more angry than happy, then that thing they are doing is not worth it. Not for the person, and not for the ones around them. 

But I get it, it is frustrating, not just for you but for me as well, and for plenty of other people. If I could be this perfect thing that could please every single mindset, person, personality, and group of people in my community I would,  But that is just unrealistic and impossible for anyone to expect me or my game to be, and for me to expect anyone else to be. I have no malicious intent or reason to be vicious. I get nothing out of that, people I don't like can still participate in my community as long as they follow the rules, people can block me, make up lies, pretend I blocked them, or whatever makes them sleep at night. I make this ARPG for me just as much as I do it for whoever wants to participate. No lie, rumor about how horrible the griffia community is will ever change that. A president I don't like will never keep me from visiting America either or no stereotype or rumor will ever make me say Americans suck because they share the community-specific people.

We all have different things we enjoy, want, need, feel is important and things that rub us the wrong way. All we can do is just be considerate and meet half way. Ask if something bothers us, or sit down like adults and talk it out instead of holding grudges and be angry. That is why I have an open community, feedback boxes, don't hide things I dislike and so on. But it is not just my mods job to keep this up, the members and players have half the job of keeping this place a good place and it is a good place, I see both sides, some see only the bad side, and some see only the good side ad it gets strengthened with new things that happen both ways. I would never be able to do that alone. That is just not possible x'D I don't know about you, but I am not a god, I'm just a random artist doing what I love and doing my best to make as many people happy as possible with the knowledge and experience I have at the current moment in time, and with what I am able to give as a single human. some things are easier to fix than others. And some things can't be fixed until other things are. While some things are just not something t hat can solve frustration for everyone at the same time.

This exact issue with the custom is not going to be the last, because it is unfair that I can't do trades, for money/GC/characters with people I hang out with while spending my entire day working on a game for every single other person many who do not even care about me as a person. And it is also unfair that I don't have the time to give you what you want and do both at the same time, and it's also unfair that some people don't have my time schedule, and lose out on my sales every single time, and it's not fair that some people are born into poverty and can never get anything that costs USD in my community. It's not fair how some people buy everything and some people get gifted everything, and it's not fair that some people have more friends to help them out while some don't. It's not even fair that my community get more of my attention than my co-workers do at times.  This list is endless, and they all have different weights of importance depending on who views them, but what I put higher is never going to be the same of what you put higher, and expecting each other to have them valued the same is unfair in itself. And assuming we don't do our best because we don't have the same view is not very mature. There is, however, ways to find solutions to all of these, and they are all about meeting halfway. There is this saying about You can't have your cake and eat it, too. But that is what I feel a lot of people expect and believe they deserves, and if they don't get that then the word toxicity is often used.  

Griffia in the beginning and now is like night and day. And today and 2 years from now is going to be just the same. Holding grudges over something that will change tomorrow helps no one, but offering solutions to make something better does! Making a game for free takes a really long time, and especially when you are a noob and have never done any of it before, it's going to take years. Took me at least 15 years to be able to draw feet, took me even longer to learn humility. Expecting me to have a perfect solution to everything in 2 years is flattering but not going to happen x'D but I see it all the time. Damn this griffia who can't do everything right away, they keep changing shit, they keep pushing it off tomorrow, they keep doing this or that. Yes we do, it's not a lie, we are not covering it up, and have no need to. It is pretty clear that we are in beta stages, and as we grow, new mistakes and new hurdles will pop up. And it's going to keep happening until we are officially out of Beta. And to someone who is already frustrated its always going to be "oh my god griffia fucked up again, unbelievable" But expecting us not to make these mistakes is unreasonable. It's a choice if someone wants to play the ARPG now while all of this keeps happening and we are in Beta, or if they want to wait. Wasting anger on a cake that is going to be undercooked for a few more years, seems very exhausting. I'm being honest, some things are going to keep being very frustrating until we are done. This process cannot be rushed, and no complaint, anger, excitement, will change it or speed it up.  

No idea if any of this is going to give any peace of mind to whoever reads it or to you, or if it's going to just be another wall of rambling of frustration, but I am at least not going to stop trying to be the best I can and do the best I can. And also share my view were I feel its needed. Solve what I can and hope that on that journey people will give me the benefit of the doubt and be patient with my noobness and accept that mistakes happen, changes will come, and that mods and members work hard to make sure this game is still enjoyable. I might be biased a f but I have the best community, we are all good and bad apples I can appreciate all, I enjoy being able to openly talk to my mods, friends, sprouts and so on, I am also not afraid to speak my mind, Especially if people come and ask for it, or want to know why something is happening. and I also think people should do the same. Conflicting ideas and views can lead to a lot of good things if we talk it out instead of sitting on it until it becomes toxic, we dont all have to agree or love the same things to be able to create something good together. No amount of outside source or inside source that hates/targets or blames a specific group of people or personalities can convince me otherwise. : )

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XKSilver In reply to griffsnuff [2018-11-02 22:58:53 +0000 UTC]

tbh, I feel like people expect wayyyyy too much of you Griff. You're just one person who has to deal with a LOT of things with making Griffia the best it can while also trying to balance your relationships with your friends and anyone else/irl stuff. I can imagine it'd be really stressful and hard to find a happy medium. It's amazing how you're still going through and pushing with making griffia the best it can be. I feel as if people need to have more patience and understanding instead of wanting things right then and there, otherwise it'll just breed negativity and plant that seed of anger/bitterness in their head. Things take a lot of time and I am of a belief that if you wait long enough, eventually good things will come to you. So I'm really confused about how people are just trying to push you to make customs just for them or angry that you're gifting/trading with people (especially your friends since they are your friends) so yeah. :'00

anyways, just my two cents reading this whole entire thing. idk where I shouldda left this comment, so I thought best to reply to this since I spent the most effort reading it lmao

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griffsnuff In reply to XKSilver [2018-11-04 02:37:57 +0000 UTC]

It is just a normal thing to do to someone in charge of something, so its an occupational hazard that I have to accept! and I am ok with it It doesn't stress me out, only thing that do stress me out is having to do something I don't want to do, but it is clear all I have to do is just say that instead of pushing it off and off. So that took so much off my shoulders!

I feel the same way I did the first time I made bagbeans, if not even more happy. Sometimes people forget that even if something can be difficult, it is also so rewarding at the same time >u
From what I have seen so far people were mad because I promised something that never came and thats hella understandable. Now that I made an update on it, now people know! :3

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ZenniLynn In reply to XKSilver [2018-11-02 23:29:39 +0000 UTC]

Honestly the only thing I'm asking for is transparency, and I'm pretty happy to have been heard. :>

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XKSilver In reply to ZenniLynn [2018-11-03 00:42:09 +0000 UTC]

Yeah I can understand that. It felt to me that griff didn't realize that it seemed like she wasn't since she got so absorbed into what she's doing. I know how that is since I'm the same way, so I don't really tell someone what's going on unless they poke me about it. Glad you feel that way too. ovo b

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ZenniLynn In reply to griffsnuff [2018-11-02 21:09:11 +0000 UTC]

Tina, I'm not saying that your friends aren't deserving. That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm not saying that you need to break yourself doing customs or from showing your friends how much you love them. I'm not even angry. I'm just stating what I've observed through my quiet existence as a member and former mod.

Thank you so much for making that journal! It's good to have the truth out in the air and let the community know that it will be a long time before customs can open. Better to have them know than to let them continue hoping that the promised monthly 2008 custom rng rolls might still have a chance at starting up again.

I really do want Griffia to succeed. I love my characters and I look forward to the day it's fun to play the ARPG with them again and not be a total grind. I wish you the best in your work on the game, truly.

I just felt like I had to speak my mind at least once, and I apologize if you felt attacked by my opinion. : )

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griffsnuff In reply to ZenniLynn [2018-11-02 22:54:43 +0000 UTC]

No problem zenni!  Better to come to me directly and ask and probe instead of not doing so, I can't fix stuff I don't know about, and I had no idea how people felt about the customs until now, I actually feel revealed knowing I actually can tell everyone I won't be doing them and will be working on griffia instead and it is fine. Felt so forced into having to keep forcing this thing over and over and keeping the customs in reach just in case and it was stressing me out, and now I know it was stressing everyone else out as well, when all everyone really wanted, in the beginning, me included, was either a yes or no and not a maybe. , just nuts how something so simple just does not occur to someone who deals with problems and solutions on a daily basis lmao, Now that I know a bit more I think I will go edit my journal a tad

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ZenniLynn In reply to griffsnuff [2018-11-02 23:19:22 +0000 UTC]

Yeah man, a lil' understanding is all we needed! :'D
I'm sure you probably mentioned something about not doing the custom RNG thing in discord, but maybe next time announce it in a journal or something? Not everyone is super attentive to the discord. Journals are good just so members aren't accusing other members of making stuff up when they try to share the thing that you announced. ;v; We were taught not to totally accept word of mouth as fact, since miscommunications can spread like wildfire. 

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griffsnuff In reply to ZenniLynn [2018-11-02 23:20:13 +0000 UTC]

true true

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fayfia In reply to griffsnuff [2018-11-02 19:09:32 +0000 UTC]

holy

that'll keep the mongolians out

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agentKROSS In reply to ZenniLynn [2018-11-02 15:25:16 +0000 UTC]

Out of curiosity, do you think the 2-3% love item drop that trees used to have would help the animosity and jealousy in the group any? It'd still be users with the time activities, but as more people continue getting griffians, maybe more people would start gifting the items out to others? Or a maze and haze tree that only has one chance at dropping a love item, and once it does it dies or becomes infertile? That way even ftos and players that use the two, have a chance of getting a love item once? I care a lot about the group and its happiness. And the happiness of its creators and mods, as well as the development of the game, so I'm just putting ideas out there. There could be a few select mods just to run the maze haze time activity?

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ZenniLynn In reply to agentKROSS [2018-11-02 16:41:53 +0000 UTC]

That's actually a really good idea. I think if Maze and Haze had that 1-time tree LB drop. things would be at least a little bit more relaxed. FTOs would have a chance at getting their dream bean and those who have been waiting years on a dreamy would have another outlet to get said dreamy. It'd also give the rest of the community reason to consider using their free Maze and Haze. 8) I would 100% support this plan.

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agentKROSS In reply to ZenniLynn [2018-11-02 17:39:06 +0000 UTC]

I'm glad you like the idea! I wonder if I should suggest it in the suggestion box? If that's allowed. Its changed a bit since i used it last haha. I also put the idea down in griff's latest journal, I'd hope it would be a better alternative for those who dont want to wait for customs (and those who dont want to do them) or those who dont want to gamble in the flower, as well as those who only have haze/maze. It'd be awesome to see the mascots used more

Can I link this comment on my other one just so others can read it as well? 

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ZenniLynn In reply to agentKROSS [2018-11-02 17:55:38 +0000 UTC]

If anywhere an idea like that is supposed to go, it's probably the suggestion box. 8) I haven't seen it in a long while, I dunno how it's changed, but if it still works then that should be good!
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