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Gwen2Kevin β Do not go away ...
Published: 2013-03-24 21:34:03 +0000 UTC; Views: 5588; Favourites: 70; Downloads: 0
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I do not very like Benlie, but I dont wish they parted ...I can `t believe that she is now with another guy ...
I draw Julie one last time ... Sorry ....
Julie,Ben-Man Action(C)
Art my (C)
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Comments: 84
I hope they end up together near the future
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I am pissed on how the writers broke them up and how they never brought Julie back as a character after rules of engagement.
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I am glad to know there ARE people like me who didn't especially shipped those two but still thought breaking them up was a dumb idea.
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Especially how they did it.
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Agreed. Seriously, this was One More Day level of stupid.
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Maybe the writer(s) of that episode were inspired by Joe Quesada(Though, to be fair, they didn't go as far as he did and kept it loosely within the realm of hypothetical plausibility)...
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... True. It wasn't something as absurd as a deal with the devil^^. But still, I feel there was the same blatant case of "we don't like Julie and many fans don't either so we will just break them up with a stupid explanation"
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Sounds about right, except you left out "so that we can pile an alien girl harem onto him... because reasons."
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True^^ This harem feels especially pointless when you consider they ended up doing nothing interesting with it and intended to have him end up with Kai from the start anyway.
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Oh God, Kai. Seriously, how could someone like her lift Excalibur if Ben couldn't? And don't even get me started on her borderline creepy attraction to Bens aliens(especially Blitzwolfer)...
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Actually, I [i]could[/i] buy someone could lift Excalibur but not Ben... if that person was, you know, someone who could ACTUALLY be believed to be more worthy than Ben. Like, say... Rook. Or Max. But NOT that pretentious, bitchy girl who never shew any sign of big altruism or heroism. She can't just be worthy of lifting Excalibur because the plot say so, writers; You need to SHOW us why she is worthy--'
Agreed, this attraction stopped being amusing and started being REALLY disturbing.
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Hell, I'd buy into Kevin being able to lift it quicker than believing that Kai could(also, I agree, Ben would probably not be the sword's first choice)...Wait, were Rook and/or Max even there try?
Then again, with Omniverse's Earth having aliens living among humans, alien/human relationships might be more common. (Kai's idea of a "relationship," on the other hand...)
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Agreed. Kevin would be a stretch, but not as much as Kai. And Rook WAS there, but not Max. Personally my guess is they wanted to give Kai some kind of power of weapon that would make her useful in the future, or something.
Agreed.
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Sounds about right.
But seriously; between OV! Charmcaster, Attea, Looma, Nyancy Chan, and now Kai, what is it with Omniverse continually tempting Ben to stick it in crazy?
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Agreed. Also, it's not just that Kai has such a creepy obsession with Blitzwolfer; it's also that this obsession comes off as really disturbing, like she likes Ben ONLY as his aliens and treat them separately from him ("I was talking to Ball Weevil"). I mean seriously, she uses Blitzwolfer's picture for his profile on her phone. WHAT THE HECK?!!
Tell me about it. And again, WHAT was the point of all these characters wanting Ben when he was intended to be with Kai to begin with? Couldn't they have bring Kai right away instead of wasting our time with her in the final "arc" when they should have focused on the friggin' Time War?!!
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If Omniverse wasn't made to be exclusively for kids, maybe they could've just explained that she's a furry(hell, Blitzwolfer's pretty much an anthropomorphic wolf, anyway)...... then again, with how far she takes it, that probably wouldn't have made it any better...
Agreed. Personally, I wouldn't have really minded Kai being Ben's love interest if they had developed her character more, showing that she's matured and grown out of her "wanting to make Ben her pet" shenanigans(maybe even look back at that with facepalming embarrassment)...
Then again, we'd still have the whole "Rules of Engagement" brouhaha to deal with.
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Lol, I don't know. Thing is, I am under the impression it doesn't qualify as bestiality as long as the animal-like member of the couple is a sentient being, because by definition that makes him not an animal. there is actually a great speech about this in the Swamp Thing comic: when Gotham's mayor tries to have Swamp Thing's wife arrested for bestiality because she essentially married an non-human plant elemental, Batman rightfully points out that by this logic, you might as well arrest every single couple in the DC Universe involving non-humans, including Starfire (whose species evolved from alien cats), Hawkman, Martian Manhunter, and even Superman. In real life, bestiality is obvious because we humans are the only known sentient species on Earth, but in fantasy and science-fiction, this reasoning no longer works. But still, Kai clearly treats Blitzwolfer like a pet rather than a love interest, making her weird obsession creepier, and as I said she treas Ben as a separate individual from his aliens.Β So she is creepy in a different way.
Agreed. As much as I like Julie better than Kai, I might have forgiven if they had at least made her a compelling and interesting character. But no! They couldn't even do that!
O, God I hate Rules of Engagement!
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That's why I said that she was a furry and not into bestiality(unless that's what they were going for; in which case, what the fuck!?!?)
Even without Batman's little logic bomb, the bestiality charge toward Swamp Thing's wife still makes no sense. Why? Because he's a humanoid plant, not an animal(didn't know the part about Starfire, though; very interesting).
They definitely should've given a much better reason why Ben and Julie weren't together anymore.
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I sure hope they weren't really going for that. Honestly they did what they do best in this show: flanderizing. And Kai in the Original Series had the misfortune to have her weird interest to have Benwolf as a pet as her sole notable characterization, so they took that and pushed it to ridiculous extent. Just as they exaggerated Inkurseans being frogs or Kevin's gothic aesthetic.
Agreed, but the Mayor of Gotham was following the reasonning that any romance with a non-human classifies as bestiality. And... well, you saw Batman's answer^^
Agreed. Though really I would have preferred they just don't break up those two because it was clearly done only because 1) many fans disliked Julie (nevermind those who actually liked her) 2) Kai was Ben's wife in the Original Future and the Original Series was to be followed to the letter... except when it doesn't fit them. But still, if they WERE gonna break them up, there were more subtle ways to do it. Not that how they got rid of Esther was any better.
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The Inkurseans being frog-like I can buy, since it gives them more unique traits among the numerous other human-like aliens in this show; goth-ish Kevin was head scratching, but passable; but how they handled Kai's... "interests" was going a bit too far.
My guess is that fans don't like Julie because Alien Force didn't give us a real reason why she was suddenly Ben's love interest, when we've never even seen her befo-... Wait, what did they do to Ester?
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I guess so for the Inkurseans, though I was really mad when they inflict the same treatment to the Galvan...
I guess so, though personally it didn't bother me much. I mean, Julie was fairly likable (until UA at least), she had powers (Ship) to defend herself and her design look fine by me.
O, you didn't know? Well, basically, Esther decides, after learning that in the future Ben and Kai are married, that it's best to just give up on getting together with Ben because you can't fight fate blah blah blah, and she ends things with him to get in a relationship with Antonio instead. In case you don't know or don't remember, Antonio was Sunny's troll-like Boyfriend in Ultimate Alien episode "Girls Trouble".
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Agreed.
Well, to be fair, Julie's character was a bit flat(though, not nearly as flat as the UAF haters said it was). Also, I think her less likeable behavior in Ultimate Alien is just her patience running thin.
......... I honestly had to recollect myself after reading that info... and I still have no words to describe my reaction to this...
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True. Julie could have used a bit more characterizations; in fact I am trying to figure out how it could have been possible to reimagine her with better characterizations. But honestly Kai didn't feel like an improvement; like at all. And agreed, Ben had become such a jackass at the end you can't blame her for getting mad.
Trust me, I understand how you feel. While I never was a big Esther fan, I definitely feel like this is an incredibly lame way to get rid of her. Not to mention that makes her whole part in the plot pointless, just like every single love interest they introduced in OV for Ben aside from Kai.
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Especially with what happened in Omniverse(seriously, that episode is too bad).
Personally, I was "okay" on Ester, but what they did with/to her character and the reasoning for her and Ben's breakup("Yep, can't fight fate; free will be damned, herp derp.") are just... why? And really, Antonio? All I can say is, for his sake and Ester's, that I hope Sunny doesn't find out('cause that's gonna be some explosively apocalyptic rage).
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Indeed. This gotta be the laziest break up since One More Day, again. I mean, I know Ben isn't a genius (though he did seem smarter than average in AF), but this is taking it too far!
Well, I assume Antonio and Sunny broke up offscreen, because I really can't imagine Antonio cheating on her. But yes, that whole can't fight fate was crap. ESPECIALLY since 1) this thing usually is portrayed as a BAD thing in series, and 2) This show established there are alternate timelines, how can there be an established future by that logic?!!
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Just another sign that the writers of Omniverse didn't care.
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Or at least that they didn't care about that specific aspect, because they clearly cared about other things. Problem is, they did not care about the right thing.
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Agreed, it's depressing how the fans care more about the series than the people in charge of it...
On a slightly more positive note, if you could restart the series at any point in the franchise(be it Omniverse, Ultimate Alien, Alien Force, or even the original series), where would you start over? What would be changed? What would be left the same?
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Well, the sad thing is, many fans do like Omniverse. Some even consider it an improvement over the previous sequels, or even over all previous series.--'
Well, I would either restart from the end of UA , or from the beginning with a teenage Ben. As for what I would change.... I have several ideas.
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............ what?......
May I trouble you for elaboration on these ideas, or are they top secret(which is totally fine with me)?
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Well, to be fair most of those who thought so had this opinion at the beginning of the show; overall most seem to agree later seasons got definitely less good (ESPECIALLY the final one). But there are still some exception. I especially met one who kept yelling about how awesome Omniverse was, how it made everything it used from the previous sequels better, how it was an "awe-inspiring hommage to everything about Ben 10, the Ben 10 Grant Morrisson would have written", how the aliens were creative, and so on.
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While I will admit that Omniverse does have some good ideas, it's the execution of said ideas that kills it(btw, Grant Morrisson would look at Omniverse and facepalm).
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Agreed. The Anur Transyl story arc, I feel, is a quintessensal example of this.
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Perhaps, if Omniverse had better writers, then this might not have been an issue.
So what kind of ideas do you have for rebooting Ben 10?
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I guess so.
Well, let's see.... for starter I would have Ben get the Omnitrix at 15. Vilgax would still be the main villain but he would be more tactical and manipulative. And I would reimagine some of the villains...
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*studiously taking notes*
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O, also Julie would be part of the main group and be more proactive in the fight. I would also flesh out her personality and relationship with Ben (not sure yet how). The Plumbers would be more like in the Original Show (a human organization Γ la Men in Black), while the space cop version of them would still be present but named the Galactic Enforcers, and Ultimos would lead them rather than the Magistrata. The Omnitrix would be powered by an Energy similar to the Ascalon sword, hence why its self-destruct system could blow up the Universe. Primus would still exist, but the Omnitrix would still contain the DNA; the two would basically exchange samples, allowing both to complete each others and the planet would be Azmuth's personal lab. I would put more emphasis on Ben's impression when shapeshifting and how it alternate his perception on the world, or causes him to feel less human sometimes. I would try to make the Ultimate Aliens more of a dangerous forbidden technique: they are nearly unstoppable, more so than in the actual series, but using it block you into the Ultimate Alien, meaning you can't switch to another alien, and if you turn back to human the Omnitrix instantly runs out of energy; as a result Ben must be sure he will win using them because if he loses he will be left vulnerable. Anodites would be despicted as magic spirits from an alternate dimension rather than just "aliens", and I would clarify that Gwen got her affinity for magic from her anodite side, NOT her magic powers (which she got from practice).
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Loving it so far.
Perhaps the Galactic Enforcers could be the Ben 10 equivalent of the Justice league(though, now that I think about it, they're also quite similar to the Guardians of the Galixy... the comic version, anyway)?
Maybe Primus, on top of being Azmuth's lab, is where all the genetic samples are actually kept, while the Omnitrix is just the "backup files," so to speak.
I agree, they should've done a more in-depth exploration on the effects that Ben's shapeshifting has on him.
Interesting idea with the ultimate aliens, but am I the only one who thinks that the whole "evolving aliens to make them more powerful" thing should've been exclusive to Albedo?
If I were to reboot Ben 10, I would have Anodites be what happens when a mage becomes so powerful that they transcend their physical form and become pure mana/magic. that's just me, though.
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Thanks^^ I did include several of those ideas in a reboot I am working on with friends. The project is a bit on a hiathus currently sadly.
Well, the way I saw it, those Galactic Enforcers would be more like the AUF Plumbers, and the Galactic Enforcers from the Original Series would be their top officers or something. Even reimagined Ultimo as looking more like Nick Fury^^ (and you got a point for similarity^^)
Basically, that's my idea for Primus. Except it'sΒ more like both serve as backup to each others and contribute to complete each others by scanning DNA.
Same here. I feel like people don't realize the potential of having a shapeshifting hero. Plus it would be in line with Azmuth's idea to create the Omnitrix to make people feel in each others' shoes.
Nah, I actually disagree on that one; I wish Ben had kept it. In fact it did became exclusive to Albedo in Omniverse, and I felt like it was Omniverse's way of making a "take that" to Ultimate Alien, so I didn't like it. Still, I would change the way Ben get the thing. For starter, rather than being a separate watch, the Ultimatrix would be an upgrade for the Omnitrix created by Albedo. Then during a fight where they have to team up against a very powerful enemy, things would get desperate, and Albedo would give the upgrade to Ben so they can both fight more efficiently. Again, my idea is that the Ultimate Alien should be made something of a last resort Ben would only use when he is desperate or really mad.
That's an interesting idea as well for Anodites.
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Well, let the ideas come to you guys; after all, creativity can't be rushed(because we all know how that turns-out).
Personally, I kind of prefer the Galactic Enforcers as superheroes, but I do agree that, if there was going to be an intergalactic police force, the Plumbers were the furthest thing from the right choice.
At the very least, I would've liked Ben to go into a more in-depth explanation as to what it's like to change form and, effectively, become different people.
I was just saying that the evolution function sounds like something that Albedo would make to give himself a major advantage over Ben(which it was, initially), but I can see where you're coming from; in light of facing an opponent that would force Ben and Albedo to work together(be it a supercharged Vilgax, Kevin in a more powerful chimera form, or someone/thing new), things probably would get desperate to where Albedo would give Ben the same upgrade to his Omnitrix(however begrudgingly).
Speaking of Albedo, can we please address that Azmuth trapped him in a different form not once, but twice(seriously, did he learn nothing from "Destroy All Aliens," which is apparently in-canon)?!?!
Honestly, I would've preferred if Anodites were purely magic-based rather than energy-based aliens that, for no reason at all, are also capable of reproducing with humans.
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Thanks^^ Thing is we do have ideas, but we have trouble finding the motivation to write. We did manage to write three episodes so far though.
Well, I only saw very little of the Galactic Enforcers and from what I knew they were kinda cheesy. But I understand if you prefer them that way. As for the whole Plumber being space cops thing, I feel like the name "plumber" was just ridiculous in this context. Hence the separation as I described. Also, to be fair it's not exactly my idea: a friend of mine had and he allowed me to use it^^
Agreed. This would have make his character definitely more interesting to follow and a much better story arc than just having constantly regress so he can learn about responsabilities again.
Well, yeah technically it's a creation from Albedo; but I feel that it's not necessarly a bad thing to give it to Ben. What he needs is to have it with a setback (like the one I invented) to ensure he won't just use them all the time. Also, I have to specify that my version of Albedo would be a bit more sympathetic, mainly because I wouldn't go through the whole cartoonish supervillainy crap they inflicted him in OV.
Yes, I did notice that. And frankly you would think that considering how it turned out the first time, Azmuth would realize it's a REALLY bad way to teach him a lesson. Not to mention petty.
Well, them being capable of reproducing with humans never really bothered me, because the show makes it perfectly clear they can assume a human body if they want. I use kinda the same concept in the book I am writing to explain the existance of half-angels and half-demons: technically, angels and demons are asexual spiritual beings, but they can use their power to form a physical body. And I do like the idea of Anodite being aliens but I feel it should be made clear they are magic beings, that way we get magic based aliens which makes a nice connection.
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This idea definitely has far more potential than what they've been doing(seriously, guys, the immature/irresponsible Ben has already run it's course).
Just out of curiosity, how exactly would/did you manage a "sympathetic" Albedo?
Maybe he was going for the whole ironic "you did it to yourself" kind of punishment... or maybe it's just terrible writing.
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Agreed; they have reached the point where him being immature is more annoying than funny.
Well, I am still thinking aboutΒ that whole thing but basically he would have ended up trapt in Ben's form in different conditions; for example, I am considering the idea he was captured by Vilgax and forced to build a new Omnitrix for him then tried to escape with it only for it to backfire as you know. Also unlike his usual self he wouldn't be as revenge-obsessed (He would STILL have a strong grudge toward both Azmuth and Ben, just not to the same degree) and would rather try to move on and use his powers for good later on in the series.
I guess both are valuable hypothesis^^
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Seriously, ten-year-old Ben was the only time when it worked because he was still just a kid... and even then, he also knew when to shut up and take things seriously.
Ah, so more like an anti-hero than a straight-up villain...
Either way, Azmuth isn't really proving himself as being much better than Albedo.
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Exactly. And this is the reason even 10 years old Ben doesn't work in OV.
Well, more like starts out antivillain and becomes an Antihero later.
Indeed.
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Technically, he's eleven in Omniverse, but I see your poin- oh, wait, you were talking about teenage Ben, weren't you?
Ah, gotcha.
Nor is his latest version of the Omniverse. Seriously, who honestly bought his explanation that Ben "pushing too hard" is what's been giving him the wrong aliens?
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Β Actually I am talking about both. You know it's wrong when you can almost not make a difference between 11 years old Ben and teenage Ben.
Good^^
Well that explanation MIGHT have worked a little... IF THEY HAD NOT KEPT THE MALFUNCTIONS AFTER THE REVEAL! I mean, are they saying Ben is too stupid tor realize he should just push softer even after Azmuth told him?!!
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That's the joke.
That, or Azmuth was either wrong, or lying to cover his own ass(though, if the former is true, then why the fuck hasn't Ben contacted Azmuth to get it fixed?).
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XD I loved this Simpson scene^^
True. And really it's far from being this new Omnitrix's sole problem. I mean, for example whatΒ was Azmuth high on when he decides to put the randomizer in that thing?
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