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SendarThisSendarThat In reply to FiliusTonitrui [2017-12-07 07:22:15 +0000 UTC]

The Imperial Legion didn't do shit when the Thalmors were capturing innocent Nords who had nothing to do with the war. Interrogating them, torturing them, And they presumably rape female captives. So what's your point?  

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FiliusTonitrui In reply to SendarThisSendarThat [2017-12-08 02:42:50 +0000 UTC]

My point? en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Gr…

*Although victorious, the Imperial armies were in no shape to continue the war. The entire remaining Imperial force was gathered in Cyrodiil, exhausted and decimated by the Battle of the Red Ring. Not a single legion had more than half its soldiers fit for duty. Two legions had been effectively annihilated, not counting the loss of the Eighth during the retreat from the Imperial City the previous year* (between "**" is what is in the actual book) without mentioning that the capital was sacked, wich means tons of resources to the Thalmor while the empire was left with almost nothing

So while the Thalmor lost more soldiers (all of Naarifin's soldiers died in the Battle of the Red Ring), the Empire suffered a greater impact in terms of resources and chances of fighting back. At those circunstances, fighting back would be suicide and this is why the empire agreed to sign the concordact: because both The Empire and Skyrim need this peace in order for the imperial forces to be rebuilt and be able to fight back, wich is something that the rebellion, since Ulfric started the Civil War, is preventing and thus helping the Thalmor on their goal (elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Th… "As long as the civil war  proceeds in its current indecisive fashion, we should remain hands-off. The incident at Helgen  is an example where an exception had to be made - obviously Ulfric's death would have dramatically increased the chance of an Imperial  victory and thus harmed our overall position in Skyrim [...] A Stormcloak victory is also to be avoided, however, so even indirect aid to the Stormcloaks must be carefully managed.")

OBSERVATION: If you pay close attention you can see that they say they should remain hands off, but that the incident at Helgen was an exeption. This means that Elenwen was trying to be allowed to enter Helgen (and obviously Tullius denied it) to prevent Ulfric's death by whatever means she had in mind.

My point is that the empire had no choice but to sign the concordact (unless you consider killing yourself on a war you can not win and giving your territories to the enemy almost for free as an option. I do not wanna make you angry, I am just putting enphasis to this part) and that the Stormcloaks are just helping the Thalmor with this Civil War (since it weakens everyone, except the Aldmeri Dominion).

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SendarThisSendarThat In reply to FiliusTonitrui [2018-01-08 08:19:13 +0000 UTC]

Hammerfell backed away from the empire, So why skyrim to do the same?

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FiliusTonitrui In reply to SendarThisSendarThat [2018-01-11 21:53:32 +0000 UTC]

Hammerfell backed away because they say the concordact as treason (and ignored the situation of the imperial forces after the battle).

And just because other did something it does not mean it is the right thing to do.

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FiliusTonitrui In reply to legendofspyroXcynder [2017-05-11 23:48:05 +0000 UTC]

This all just started thanks to Ulfric's decision of killing Torygg. General Tullius is just defending the empire (and if the legion wins the war, General Tullius will talk about how he is "not sure about the peace with the Thalmor")

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legendofspyroXcynder In reply to FiliusTonitrui [2017-05-13 21:57:53 +0000 UTC]

You again? -_-

"This all just started thanks to Ulfric's decision of killing Torygg" But not the Dragonborn's Prophecy which speaks of a civil war in Skyrim - nope, totally Ulfric's fault. Its also not like the peasant that is Mede II is a major pussy who'd rather give up his beliefs than fend off the enemy (who, bank then, had the strength to rekt the Thalmor, but nooooo).

"Tullius is just defending the Empire" HAHAHAHAHA! Nice one.



It seems that there's no way to fix an agreement with you. I praise the Strormcloaks, you call me a racist fuck. I praise the Empire (well, Gen. Tullius), you attack me again. Uff.

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FiliusTonitrui In reply to legendofspyroXcynder [2017-05-17 02:31:39 +0000 UTC]

"But not the Dragonborn's Prophecy which speaks of a civil war in Skyrim - nope, totally Ulfric's fault. Its also not like the peasant that is Mede II is a major pussy who'd rather give up his beliefs than fend off the enemy (who, bank then, had the strength to rekt the Thalmor, but nooooo)." now you are saying that a prophecy is guilty? A prophecy is simply a prediction, in this case of something that happens thanks to the stupidity of some individuals.

Ah so now Titus should have commited suicide just to look tough, destroying the imperial army with him and leaving the imperial citizens completely defenseless? Well great strategy, or should I say... stupidity? Wait what? Had the strengh to rekt the Thalmor? HAHAHAHAHA silly stormcloak crybaby, barely searches about the lore and feels like a Lore Master. the empire was absolutely in no shape to continue to fight after the BOTRR, as it is revealed by the book “The Great War” (en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Gr… ): “Although victorious, the Imperial armies were in no shape to continue the war. The entire remaining Imperial force was gathered in Cyrodiil, exhausted and decimated by the Battle of the Red Ring. Not a single legion had more than half its soldiers fit for duty. Two legions had been effectively annihilated, not counting the loss of the Eighth during the retreat from the Imperial City the previous year.” and all of this while Alinor (formely Summerset Isles, renamed by the Thalmor) was untouched by the imperials and had tons of resources after the sack of the Imperial City (also Notice that Naarifin’s army was the greatest Aldmeri army IN CYRODIIL, as the book reveals, so the Dominion had more powerful armies left). In that state, the empire’s chances of victory were 0% and only and ignorant (or a wilful ignorant) would think that signing the concordact was an actual betrayal, because there was no other choice (if they kept fighting, they would basically commit suicide and give the empire to the Thalmor for free). He also blames the empire due to this part of the book: “In 4E 174, the Thalmor leadership committed all available forces to the campaign in Cyrodiil, gambling on a decisive victory to end the war once and for all.” but he failed to realise that he was talking about a campaign before the Imperial City was sacked, before Alinor got tons of resources from the sack, before the imperial capital was nearly destroyed and before the imperial army was in no shape to fight. To defeat the empire at that time, such campaign would not be needed… and Titus Mede II knew that. But now I realized something: the Thalmor controlled the Imperial City from Second Seed (that is equivalent to May) of 4th Era 174 to Rain’s Hand (that is equivalent to April) of 4th Era 175. They basically controlled the city almost an entire year! How can someone think that all the forces gathered for the campaign were kept at the city if there were other captured cyrodiilic cities to “take care of”? The book states that Jonna’s army was attacked by aldmeri soldiers from Bravil to Skingrad (“Lord Naarifin was taken by surprise by Decianus’s assault, but Jonna’s troops faced bitter resistance as the Aldmeri counterattacked from Bravil and Skingrad. The heroic Nord legionnaires held firm, however, beating off the piecemeal Aldmeri attacks.”), but what about Leyawiin (that was taken by the Dominion in the very beggining of the war and is far away from Bravil)? All of this without mentioning that it would be nonsense to keep all the forces gathered for the assault to the capital in the already captured capital, as the Dominion already believed that the emperor would surrender without any battle (what obviously did not happen). With this said I now can conclude that it does not make sense for the Thalmor to have lost every single force that they used in the campaign during the BOTRR.

"HAHAHAHAHA! Nice one." oh such great arguments there. Preety convincing. A great example of indeep research and in deep observations (sarcasm).

I attacked your POINTS thanks to the nonsense you said. That is it.

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FreezerGreaser In reply to FiliusTonitrui [2018-03-13 06:10:19 +0000 UTC]

That sure is a long sentence you got there. How come you are nearly everywhere to be exact?

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FiliusTonitrui In reply to FreezerGreaser [2018-03-16 01:33:38 +0000 UTC]

I am kinda active

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zoron246 In reply to fantocan [2013-12-18 07:54:34 +0000 UTC]

high elves were not in skyrim the falmer were, hell so were the dwemer. Cycles happen one conquers the other, but the damned falmer brought it on themselves by trying to cull the population of another race just because they thought themselves superior.

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fantocan In reply to fantocan [2013-10-20 08:20:53 +0000 UTC]

Oh and great image there, very action paced, and love the details.

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iamherecozidraw In reply to Sturm57 [2013-10-04 15:20:24 +0000 UTC]

I agree that the Stormcloaks are just selfish, childish peoples unwilling to let any other race share their land... But then, the Empire are a bunch of pushovers, they have a long history of being misguided and led astray and this mallarky with the filth that is the Aldmeri Dominion, Well... What can I say, both sides have their flaws, but only one side shows passion.

However the same could probably be said about the Nazis, so there you go.

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Akeidamos In reply to Steve11111111 [2013-02-04 17:46:09 +0000 UTC]

Someone actually read the notes during Diplmatic Immunity, I see

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heart4art7 In reply to Akeidamos [2013-06-02 05:33:18 +0000 UTC]

let's think about it as well; during the white-gold concordat, Hammerfell was kicked from the Empire, sold out to the dominion, during those 25 years it's held its own resisting the Thalmor, where in Skyrim the Thalmor go kidnapping anyone suspected of Talos worship and other acts to undermine their efforts to rebuild themselves, until they've exhausted themselves enough to decimate both the empire and Skyrim under the Thalmor rule. If Hammerfell could repel the Thalmor for 25 years on their own, who's to say Skyrim, a province full of powerful, prideful warriors couldn't? If you want the full story and list of facts, then here; this should help you choose which side is the right to follow. [link]

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Akeidamos In reply to heart4art7 [2013-06-02 16:28:09 +0000 UTC]

That's true, but Ulfric in one of his dialogues says that "as soon as Skyrim will be restored and rebuilt, we'll sail for the Summerset Isles"...Honestly, I doubt that Skyrim alone can defeat the Thalmor, even though humans (Atmorans and early Nords) managed to defeat elves many times. Let's just say that Nord warriors are more specialized in Guerrilla Warfare, useful when defending your homeland by doing hit-and-run raids on Imperial patrols, but not a big deal in a land where all soldiers are blade-and-fire fighters. The Empire struggled against the Aldmeri Dominion with Hammerfell, Cyrodiil and Skyrim all together, so I doubt that Nords could take over an entire island by themselves, especially with such a low level of "technology" (magic knowledge especially). Still, Elder Scroll's history is full of surprises and plot twists, so I may end up being wrong Although I've already made my choice as Legion-sided, I kinda like the view of a "new, free Skyrim", so I have a second character who's sided with the rebellion and soon will formally join their ranks, but I don't like Ulfric either way: the Empire may have done some mistakes (which happens, for a country that's struggling in its darker times), but Ulfric's just making things worse and many in the game, even Nords, don't trust him and his ideals, stating that he rather wants the throne for himself.
Months ago I found this page, it tells you a huge amount of information about the Thalmor's actual plans and the whole controversial arguing about Talos' godhood [link]

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heart4art7 In reply to Akeidamos [2013-06-02 18:58:15 +0000 UTC]

True that Ulfric wants the throne of high-king, but that's so that he can have command over his own people rather than have someone hand-picked by the empire as Ulfric believes that his people, the nordic race, would benefit more from a nordic king than an imperial puppet. Even if the Thalmor are superior, the nords are strong and dominant, able to drive them out of Skyrim until they are able to make a full on assault against the thalmor. Besides, even if the nords can't handle the thalmor, the dragonborn could, especially with odahviing to help from the skies above. The dragonborn is Skyrim's secret weapon for either side of the conflict, and many thalmor have actually made reports on the dragonborn, saying he can easily defend himself and that he's highly dangerous. Personally: if you chose to defend skyrim with the stormcloaks, Skyrim itself will become independant, and the empire will likely become a kingdom because I highly doubt that a two-province empire will stay together.

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Akeidamos In reply to heart4art7 [2013-06-16 08:01:55 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, Ulfric may be the best ruler for Skyrim, but I'm not sure about the Dragonborn, as he/she would rather join the Thieves Guild or the Dark Bros than get himself involved in some political stuff like the civil war (if we talk of the average Dragonborn created by every player, just kidding of course)...
Now being serious, High Rock and Cyrodiil would remain under imperial control if Skyrim was to become independent: the Bretons benefit from the trades with the Imperial Province, so they MAY leave the Empire, but only against their own will, as Skyrim is between the two provinces and would gladly interrupt imperial trading routes. Thus making me think that High Rock would remain loyal and even support the Empire with spell-using legionaires. Not to mention the fact that there's still some hatred between High Rock and Skyrim because of Nord domination in the Breton's province in old times and still present in The Reach as well, the latter once under High Rock's rule.
Back to Ulfric, I do believe that he'd be a good leader, and that the whole Dunmer matter is because they'd rather not get involved, since many Dark Elves have served under the Legion and they still honor those days.
Windhelm itself has an Imperial, Viola Giordano, as one of it's "prominent citizens" and two Altmer, Niranye and Nurelion, as main merchants in the city, so instead we should say that Nords aren't fond of outsiders because of the current situation, rather that yelling "Nords are nazi fucks trololo" (let's spare those words for the Thalmor, shall we?)...the Dunmer have no fault about their situation in Windhelm, but they'd be smart if they supported the rebellion in any simple way, as Ulfric would surely start the repairs of the Grey Quarter AFTER the war.
Pretty long, wasn't it? Yeah, sorry about that

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heart4art7 In reply to Akeidamos [2013-06-16 18:12:26 +0000 UTC]

not long enough to tell the whole story. theres been a lot of hate between the nords and dunmer for generations (not sure if skooma was one of the reasons) and if the dark elves at least did something to help windhelm, not the stormcloaks, then they might have had a better reputation. Ulfric wouldn't have time to help the dunmer during civil war since he needed to care for his own people until the war was over, after the war he might have made improvements for their living conditions; a basic oversight many people fall into. it's understandable why people say nords are nazi's, but lets think about it more simply: a criminal charged with first and second degree murder that lead a massive massacre (thalmor) shows up on your door step with a police squad (imperials) saying that they're trying to turn a more "peaceful" leaf with people and that you need to share your home with them until they can afford a better place to live. of course the nords are gonna flip out and hate both factions

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Akeidamos In reply to heart4art7 [2013-08-13 20:34:02 +0000 UTC]

Uhm, hi, it's been quite the time since you replied to me

Jokes apart, from what I know Skooma isn't the reason of the hatred between Nords and Dunmer. At the beginning of the First Era, Skyrim started a campaign of conquests against High Rock and Morrowind, thus founding the First Empire. You see, that was the beginning of the tensions between the two kinds, but not the start of the hatred against Elvenkind (Night of Tears, Ysgramor and the Five Hundred Companions, etc).

The treatment that the Dunmer receive in Windhelm is a fault of both Nords and Dark Elves, the first ones being ignorant and hearing Ulfric's message the wrong way, the second ones preferring to stay aside from that because many of them supported and fought (proudly too) for the Empire. There's an in-game book (forgot its name, derp), where the author states that the Dunmer in Riften have integrated well enoug in the social fabric of the town, thus not receiving a treatment of prejudice, while the Dark Elves in Windhelm do little to help its economy and society. I must admit, I did fall into that oversight too time ago, but now I see that it's not Ulfric the problem, it's the ignorant NPCs that need some kickin' in the nuts. I know time has passed, but a country doesn't get up on its feet so quickly and easily after a war (maybe a modern-days country would, but it's not the case of the Empire), especially if that country was weak since before the war. If we think of the Great Collapse in Winterhold (happened about 80 years before the events in TES5), I'd say it's stupid that they haven't rebuilt their own town yet, and seeing as the College itself leaves their bridge in ruins, it's more stupid. But the Great War was 20 years ago and things weren't going well since after its end until the current days: the loss of Imperial Authority in Hammerfell, the tensions that Ulfric was already starting and the Markarth Incident, not to mention one of the commas of the White-Gold Concordat: a massive tribute in gold from the Empire to the Dominion. Surely that must've damaged a bit the economy of the Empire, thus imposing new taxes and so on, you know how it goes. Still, I'd prefer to remain loyal to the Empire while secretly ambushing Thalmor patrols with Erik the Slayer

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CyberMonkey21 In reply to Soul-Theif [2012-09-10 07:25:47 +0000 UTC]

Thats the biggest detail the Stormcloaks are overlooking, sure it wasn't the Emperor's finest hour, I'm sure in his mind he didn't want to do it and knew what was going to happen when word reached Skyrim, but if he didn't, the war would of continued, which would of meant more deaths and the destruction of the Empire, and without the Empire, where would Skyrim be. Most Nords like Erikur who thinks the peace should floursih is an idiot, the current peace is just a temporary cease-fire, once the Dominion is ready, they're going to finish what they started.

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rappunzell14 In reply to p3ac3isd3ad [2012-07-07 19:55:33 +0000 UTC]

Not really, i wanted to too....especially since I can't seem to bring myself to create a non-Mer Dragonborn.....or join the Stormcloaks....

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fantocan In reply to rappunzell14 [2013-10-20 08:33:13 +0000 UTC]

There are plenty of reasons to go elf with stormcloacks, I made duzens of Dark Elfs and most of the times I join the Stormcloacks.

Yeah Yeah, Ulfric is a racist asshole but the rebels fight the opression of the empire wich are also suck, and how can you forget they tryed to behead us, BEHEAD ME!

Stormcloacks are heroes and Ulfric sucks.

But the Thalmor are supercool, even as stuck up bastards, really wished we could join them, imagine taking radiant quests (that never end) at the Thalmor Embassy to kill and capture talos worshipers, or fight Stormcloacks, or persuade Jars to cooperate and so on and on and on ...

Patroling with Thalmor robes and a couple of soldiers would be super cool.

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p3ac3isd3ad In reply to rappunzell14 [2012-07-19 08:46:53 +0000 UTC]

Finally someone who understands. I know what you mean, I always end up with an altmer, orc or dunmer.

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rappunzell14 In reply to p3ac3isd3ad [2012-07-19 14:57:44 +0000 UTC]

Exactly!! I think I made one argonian at some point...but I think it only made it to lvl 20 before I deleted it. -_-' Overall, I usually end up making a Kajiit, Altmer, Dunmer, or Bosmer. Never have I made a Nord, or even a Breton (thinking seriously about making a Breton char though...Conjuring is glorious *duel daedra lords and a bound bow....instant KO*

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CyberMonkey21 In reply to rappunzell14 [2012-09-10 07:04:17 +0000 UTC]

Any character can conjure, Bretons just start out with higher conjuration and conjure spell, my argonian is at 100 conjure. Storm Atronauchs murder anyone at long range, and the Dremora Lords I crack up when they say stuff like eating peoples hearts, they smell weakness, but I noticed a Draugr Deathlord can murder them easily, one of my Lords I summoned was immediately killed by a single arrow.

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rappunzell14 In reply to CyberMonkey21 [2012-09-10 23:05:36 +0000 UTC]

I have so much mana, that I can just keep resummoning them, and I usually go for a Storm Atronauch/Dremora Lord combo, with the Summon Bow. I have indeed made my breton, and it's awesome. However, I ended up with full Illusion magics as well, so I suddenly found myself with a Mage/Thief since I quickly mastered Pickpocketing..........I named the breton Loki.....

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CyberMonkey21 In reply to F20B10 [2012-09-10 07:13:03 +0000 UTC]

Heres a bit of history, Tiber Septim in the past prevented the ancient Dominion from conquering Tamriel, which sparked a hatred towards him and the Septim dynasty. When the Dominion was refounded, they refounded their hatred as well. The reason they forced the Emperor to banish the worship of Talos is because they hate him.

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