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jasonjuta — Roman Infantry Formation
Published: 2014-04-28 13:08:02 +0000 UTC; Views: 56978; Favourites: 1093; Downloads: 737
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In reality Pilum was also used in close combat if needed as a improvised spear.This is several times recorded in original Roman sources and even directly depicted in their art.This picture is based on the description of Roman battle lines in battle against Alans during Hadrian.It was discribed by Roman governor of Cappadocia Arrianos who was also a Roman general here.
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Defence? With the tortoise formation, you are practically blind and can barely fight. And so, if you have a long pointy stick protruding from behind your shield, you are a lot less likely to be charged. And if you are charged, then you can hopefully spear a man
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But they aren't spears they are Javens. I mean this particular form of the Pilum wasn't suppose to be used in melee.
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I mean, they aren't primarily melee-spears but they are closer to melee-spears than the gladius.
It's really not that far fetched to use javelins as melee-spears.
You are correct in saying that the Pilum was a javelin, but a javelin is simply a lighter spear. A spear at the end of the day is just a long pointy thing, and no matter the size or type of pointy thing, I still wouldn't want to run into one.
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It really is a defensive formation.But its definitely not a "Testudo".Not all Roman formations using shields for covering were that famous testudo.This is Fulcum formation.Javelin and spear are not the same thing.They differ by their combat role.Javelin is to be throwed on enemy while spear is a weapon mean for close combat.At any case Pilum was without any doubt also ocassionally used in close combat as improvised spear if needed.Not my personal theory but well documented fact.In this painting Romans are resisting attack of heavy Alan cavalry not infantry and Fulcum was standardly used to repeal such attacks.Horses were sometimes distracted from fighting just by seeing sharp things pointed just on them and animals are not so stupid to run directly into it although military horses were normally trained to attack enemy even frontaly and to be ressistant to such fear it was still far from perfect so horses occasionally refused such frontal attack and turned away just before contact with enemy lines.
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that model of Pilum was I've only heard only once being used as a spear and it was an on the spot quick thinking to fend off a Calvary. It made clear that they aren't supposed to use it as a spear but they innovation it as such in the Battle of Pharsalus. The invasion did win them the battle, however, there was no set formations like this. just a smart command. that battle makes me skeptical of the idea that this was a real Roman formation.
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Use of Pilum as a improvised spear is recorded several times by ancient historians.But even if we were not so lucky to have it explicitely mentioned in ancient text it would be naive to suppose that it was exllusively used only as a javelin and never as spear.Spear-like use of the Pilum is also captured very clearly in Roman art.This painting is based on the description of Roman battle lines in battle against Alans during Hadrian.It was discribed by Roman governor of Cappadocia Arrianos who was also a Roman general here.Arrianos however wrote it in Greek and also military terms he use are greek.Some scholars think he could speak about pilum but others are mentioning that also Hasta could be meant by his Greek terms.
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Your right I'm sure they used a pilum like a spear, but that particular one would not do to well, one jab and you cant use it anymore, they where made to Bend on impact to get stuck in shield and not be reusable, so enemys cant through it back. It would be naive to thing that would work at all in combat. let alone in a phalanx looking formation.
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That wouldn't be naive.Its a myth that Pila were designed to to bend on impact.You think Romans would ocassionaly used them as spears even in such in advance prepared situations as Caesar mentioned if they knew their Pila will bend so easily?
That Pilum bend on impact is now generally considered as outdated myth even by some of the most respected Roman army scholars.Mike Bishop which is likely the most respected scholar on Roman army equipment talked to Pilum bending myth even in his latest book which is directly about Pilum Javelins and concluded that Pilum Bending myth is generaly based on two things:
1)one is that Pilum shaft gets relativily often bend after fulfilling its role but clearly as secondary unintentional not designed effect.In most cases Pilum did not bend on impact at all as even practical experiments showed and it is very reasonable that it dont usually behave like that because primary objective of the Pilum was to sesurely penetrate shild and kill a man behind it.This was what Pilum was really designed for and if it was so easy to bend it its primary role would be endengered.
Moreover as practical experiments showed its actually very hard to extract Pilum from the shield even when shaft is not anyhow bend by the impact and when you have unlimited time for it and not fighting for your life in the middle of battle.Experiments also showed(same as actually archeological preserved specimens) that in those cases when Pilum ocassionally bend, it bends usually directly under the tip point of the Javelin head.
2)The second source behind this myth is short notice by Plutarch that according to him Marius was an inventor of Pilum inovation which consisted from replacing one of two iron rivets holding Pilum shaft at place by wooden rivet which made Pilum bend on impact.However Plutarch is the only one who ever mentioned this from ancient authors and although we have several Pila fragments from after the time of Marius none includes evidence for what Plutarch mentions-and more than that, if anything we actually have evidence for a direct opposite of what Plutarch claimed,an evidence for tendention to make pilum shaft even more tightly secured at place to prevent undisired bending since third Iron rivet started to be added to those two Pila usually had before.
Bishop concludes that its hard to completely reject what Plutarch recorded but it is likely that he might have misinterpret something other which Marius did with Pilum in reality(or even invent the story completely since as he notice Ancient biographers loved to attribute special inventions to famous persons they wrote about).He further talks about various reasons why such thing as described by Plutarch would be unlikely to be really used and mentions also opinions of other scholars on that subject and various possible interpretations of Plutarchs words.
Will be doing myself an artwork focused on Pila-such most people have no idea that existed.
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Now who'd win in a field battle, the Mongolian hoard or the Roman legion?
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Ones anchent ones medieval hard to compare and a multitude of factors to think about
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its hard to say, what century Rome
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Is better Enterprise or Imperial star destroyer?
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when did the Testudo formation come into the main stay of the roman army?
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it is ok AMELIANVS answered my question
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This is not a formation called Testudo.
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i was asking when it came into play
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I know.But why are you asking on it at the picture who is not showing shield formation known as Testudo?This is different formation a relative of more popularly famous Testudo,known as Fulcum.Fulcum very much replaced testudo in popularity during late antiquity.To your original question: It is not known with any certainity when exactly Romans started to use it and when it become a standard prcatice.Perhaps the earliest recorded instance it was used dates to the storming of Aquilonia in 293 BC.Our source for this is however Historian Livy who lived long after this in late Republican/early imperial Augustan Rome so we cant be really sure if it was just a work of his imagination or if he based this detail on much earlier sources.At any case if Livy is correct it would mean Tesdudo shield formation(Romans in fact did not use term Testudo/turrtle only on that famous formation but on some other things like protecting covers during sieges too)was already in use by 4th century BC.By the time of the 2nd Punic war it was quite likely a regular thing to use and normal thing by late republican period.If you are interrested also in when it stopped to be use-this is also shrouded in mystery same as its beginnings.Fulcum(mentioned for the first time at early 2nd century but not yet under name"fulcum") started to be more popular but Zosimus(writting at late 5th/early 6th century but relying on older authors)mentions Testudo being still in use by late 3rd century as it is present in his description of Aurelianus war with Zenobia.It is possible to find many shield covering formations in the works of late antiquity writers but it is usually impossible to know from very sketchy descriptions true nature of such formations and if some of them were oldschool Testudo.The latest known usage known to me dates to first years of the 6th century where Testudo is specifically mentioned(in its greek word equivalent but meaning the same "a turtle")during Anastasian Persian war.But description is again given only in very sketchy form so we could hardly be sure if 6th century author was having on mind really the old famos testudo or by now less famous but at his time commonly used similar(but not the same) formation known as Fulcum.Fulcum continued to be used in the armies of the eastern half of the Roman Empire deep into medieval times.
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it was just a moment of stupid curiosity, and thank you for taking the time to answer
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Definitely not.Triarii were used in completely different era and had different equipment.These are legionaries of the later 2nd century(with some errors).
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I think it might actually be the early third century.
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It is set precisely to the half of the 2nd century.I know it because I have original article this pic illustrates and mainly because Roman army is my hobby,Marcus Aurelius age among my major focuses. Swords are very typical for later Antonine period(although they might easily be still in use in earlier 3rd century as well) but as I said although picture is great it also includes some errors.
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Down to the triarii. Shit is hitting the fan for this Roman army... #triplexacies
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Elves of Thranduil, take note. This is how open-field combat works. No tactical advantage is derived from jumping over the shield wall.
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By the oval shape of the shields, am I to assume that these are meant to be legionaries of the Praetorian Guard?
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No, as far as I know the oval shield was used quite extensively at certain periods - I'm not an expert though, mainly receiving guidance from the article author.
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No they are ordinary legionaries.This shape of shield was used by common legionaries(together with other shapes-including rectangular so popular in pop culture)at this time.Shape of Republican shield that Praetorians possibly used for some time longer than legionaries was different from this shape.
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I see. Of course, the oval shield that the Praetorians are depicted as using in that one stone relief could just as likely be ceremonial.
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Gorgeous detailing. But how they throw pilums in such close formation?
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Thanks - these pilums and shields are to receive a charge (cavalry in this case) and defend against missiles - in these formations, the infantry further back would throw javelins instead, with archer support at the rear.
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