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Kiarou In reply to ChasehaWing [2012-06-12 03:27:03 +0000 UTC]

It's also something a lot of the writers overlook too. They just blame it on Jason saying he's reckless and too angry, but he didn't do anything wrong.
No one in the old DC cannon knew, but I figure Tim's a detective, it wouldn't be that hard to find out so he's probably one of the few that knows which is why he's the one from the batfamily that has given Jason the most chances. Tim's even worked with Jason before--even let him out of prison because he still believed in him.
There has to be a reason, and I thing that it's because Tim secretly knows the circumstances of Jason's death and his life.

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ChasehaWing In reply to Kiarou [2012-06-12 03:44:58 +0000 UTC]

Really, I always thought it was because Tim idolized Jason (like he said) when he was Robin, and somehow, after seeing him work and really digging into knowledge of the Red Hood (Which i'm sure he does in his spare time) he found snippets and pieces of Jason that prove that not only does he have a heart (A HUGE on at that) but he also wants to still do good. It's just his methods that bother Tim, but the more people that Jason is around, the more grounded and sane he is. I honestly believe that Jason does better when he's in a group, and that's another reason why I love the RHATO series.

But yeah, I don't think Tim REALLY knows about how Jason's mother betrayed him. He might suspect, but there's only five people at most who knew, Shila, who died, Jason who will not tell, Joker who may have actually forgot, and one - two body guards who were there when Jason were beaten, and I think they were killed off when Ra's and Talia found Jason (or just killed off by Joker, he does that). So I think Tim SUSPECTS there's more to the story, but he doesn't actually KNOW the full extent of the story.

Personally, I believe that Jason wouldn't have put one foot in that warehouse without VERY careful consideration, thought and a plan if his mother hadn't invited him in. I think once he saw her he was like "This is my chance, we have to get AWAY!"
... Its the saddest story in the world actually, and to this day Bruce has no idea the true events that brought on the death of his son.

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DarcRabbit In reply to ChasehaWing [2012-06-12 16:22:15 +0000 UTC]

FINALLY!! Someone else says it. I've been so frustrated with DC constantly sayin' that...

"Jason was angry, reckless, and disobeyed...and those things lead to his death."

But Jason didn't show any signs of anger that day. He didn't disobey Bruce that day. And he wasn't reckless that day. He just trusted his only known BLOOD RELATIVE at her word that Joker wasn't anywhere around that area. SHE betrayed HIM, and no-one seems to get that it wasn't Jason's fault that he died. Not to mention that he died a hero tryin' to save the person that betrayed him at gun point, watched while he was jumped by thugs, and turned her back to smoke a cigarette while the Joker beat him with the crowbar.

So I thank the both of you for knowin' this information. And I thank you...*Kiarou...for incorporatin' the truth into your comic...(which is good by the way...I'm not kissin' any ass, it just actually IS good).

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ChasehaWing In reply to DarcRabbit [2012-06-12 21:10:48 +0000 UTC]

Oh, hi again. You don't seem to remember me and that's OK ^^b But yeah, I think we can all safely agree that Jason's not at fault for what happened to him.
...Poor boy ;_;

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DarcRabbit In reply to ChasehaWing [2012-06-12 23:44:49 +0000 UTC]

Actually I DO remember you. It was just a comment thankin' both of you. DC needs to learn to respect their own characters.

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ChasehaWing In reply to DarcRabbit [2012-06-13 04:02:24 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, they do ^^

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009-863beta In reply to ChasehaWing [2013-02-04 07:04:42 +0000 UTC]

Huh. I never knew that Jason's mom was the one that betrayed him. Most of the comics I read (they're all from the recant continuity) seem to hint at Jason being too reckless and instantly trusting the word of his mother, and that he charged into his grave. It seems to hint that Joker tricked them both. It never said anything about her lying to him.
I really need to look at the older generation of comics in detail.
Anyone know where to find copies of "A Death in the Family"?

I'm also probably one of the few that doesn't by the "Jason is a complete nut" line. I simply see him as more of a DC version of the Marvel character Frank Castle. AKA: The Punisher.
And I can understand the desire to kill these wackos. 12+ years of Batman and co. throwing them in Arkham has done SQUAT at stopping them for good, so Jason's taking a more hard line, fueled by the people that died and could have been saved had these freaks been stopped for good sooner, including himself. He's not evil. He's doing what he thinks is the only way to stop nuts like Joker and Victor Zsasz and Scarecrow from killing again. Whether or not he's right is up to reader interpertation.

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009-863beta In reply to 009-863beta [2013-02-05 02:04:28 +0000 UTC]

Another thing I didn't like was Batman's supposed last words to him following the "Infinite Crisis" arc, during "Batman R.I.P." and "Battle for the Cowl," where Batman's last message to Jason is that it was a mistake to have ever let him be Robin, and that he overlooked his psycological problems.

Which I'm pretty sure he was getting over, or weren't even there, tell he, you know, WAS BEATEN TO DEATH WHILE HIM MOM TURNED AWAY TO SMOKE. Well, technacally the bomb the Joker left afterward is what killed him, but you get the point.

For Batman to spend the majority of the arcs following Jason's return trying to bring him back into the fold, just to give him the last message that he should never have been Robin, and to get psychiatric help for his problems? That would make ANYONE hate him.

After all that,I really don't blame Jason for not wanting to give a damn about the Bat family. And as shown later, he seems to actually still have a form of sympathy, and in Tim Drake's case, almost pity towards those in the bat family, Even though he is still constantly, heatedly, and sometimes viloently at odds with it's head of house.

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