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Kifffia In reply to Shisho2k [2013-07-18 14:31:17 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, totally me Small hateful hamster eyes half drowned in fat...On the other hand, who wouldn't frown seeing such a face in the mirror?

..just kidding, the fact is that I must be naturally looking angry and frowning because people sometimes ask me why do I have such grumpy face..or more funny, why do I puff-up like a frog, even if feel absolutely calm and contented.. (hence those frog types). I don't know why is that..maybe I really frown even if I think I don't or I do appear frowning and "puffed up" because of facial features..

Anyhow, this is just painting and I can't say how accurate it is. I can clearly see some disproportion. But I think you're right about the eye. It is the most accurate part. 

Funny thing is that I must admit that even I see myself quite pissed on here and on almost all my "mirror" drawings. If I believed I'm so good at depicting reality I'd say it's because I focus on drawing/painting so much that I frown. But I don't believe it of course...

I'll try smiling portrait next time and see what happens..

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Shisho2k In reply to Kifffia [2013-07-18 17:55:43 +0000 UTC]

Haha, well yeah maybe you'd have to force that smile, and it'd end up looking like those sociopath pictures where their eyes still give it away.

The peripheral vision thing is just an optical illusion, and it might honestly influence people subconsciously.  Just like when you think you saw a bug on the wall, but it was just a shadow or mark when you dart to see.  I imagine the impact is greater since we have tons more circuitry devoted to face recognition.  It's kind of fascinating how the nerve cells work (and don't work) in the retina.  Our eyes are actually pretty shitty things tbh.  XD  Just think of all the optical illusions you've seen.  They all exploit cell dysfunction, and they report false images into your visual cortex.  Even movement distortions.

So something about how the shadows fall on your face can illicit an interesting facial expression in the dead spots of our eyes.  XD

You do though have a somewhat naturally scornful looking expression in the eyes.  I think partly from the way your eyebrows rest.

Who really knows though how much our faces give away.  We do so much with them without realizing.  Perhaps we do carry a weight in them from years and years of certain expressions.

I know it's all just stereotyping that we do, and who you are inside certainly doesn't match.  But yes, the general appearance in this picture (disproportions aside) says to me "This woman is going to kill whoever she is looking at." 

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Kifffia In reply to Shisho2k [2013-07-19 13:58:44 +0000 UTC]

Maybe it doesn't matter, I will distort the image so much that the result will be somewhat like that anyway..

I've heard that image created by our eyes is very poor and for the most of the final image we see is responsible brain. I am willing to believe that. Yes, at the examples you gave we can see how the brain tends to put together information that is often incorrect. (It reminds me pretty much of "content-aware fill" function in Photoshop ) Visual perception is fascinating but just more fascinating is how the brain works with the image further. How it gets distorted in memories and in dreams. Dreams are the most fascinating. I'm especially amazed how light and colours change.

Hah, there's such quotation.. "In our face is carved the name of the god we serve." It is true to some degree, but I definitely wouldn't try to estimate someone's personality based on it. I wonder if there are people who are able to guess right personality traits after few minutes looking at the certain person. If it is possible then they would have to be very good, experienced psychologists and know much about body language.

Damn, it happens all the time.. But..I'm totally harmless!  

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Shisho2k In reply to Kifffia [2013-07-19 15:11:18 +0000 UTC]

Yeah haha, it is very much like that.  There's also parts of cells that get suppressed (sometimes not completely shut down) as others next to them are activated.  So that can cause colors and lightness to shift.  The actual data impulses are modified before they even hit the visual cortex part of the brain.  So both eyes and brain are doing it.

When I look at how neurons work, it's pretty plain to see why they wouldn't ever have the accuracy of something digital.  The circuits are not gated exactly in a binary kind of way.  There are thousands of connections per cell to other cells.  So any number of things can fire off other seemingly random neurons, and creating our mixed experiences.

I just try to imagine what would result if I cabled something like this:  25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md0...

XD

Memory researchers have studied well enough to know and prove certain basic concepts.  The interesting thing about memories is that the longer you have them, they really just become a memory of a memory of a memory.  They also found that with each shift, since the newest configuration is well wired and fires strongly, that translates to our feelings of confidence.  So people may remember something a few different ways if they compare and think about it, but their most recent version they think and feel is most accurate.  Obviously it is anything but, since your brain is filling in the gaps with your reason and logic of what should or could follow.  They tested people and recorded the experiences in a lab.  Consistently they'd see people's memories each week get less and less accurate, but the most current form (the least accurate) they felt was the most true.

They've also determined that a memory isn't stored at all like you'd imagine data is stored in a computer.  What is stored is approximations about the information coming in from the senses.  It couldn't possibly store the millions of retina pixels for every little moment of memory in a flip book manner.  Let alone all the stuff from all the other nerve endings.  Too much data obviously.  What the brain does is stores a very compressed set of information, and when that memory is recalled it pumps that stuff through your "imagination" circuitry (for lack of technical terms here).  You then reconstruct the event in your mind with your imagination basically.  If you see something, your brain fills in as many gaps as it can with high powered autofill, and slips it through your visual cortex.  You get some abstract faint imagine experience, it falls away.  So our memories are just reconstructions.  That's why they're so foggy and riddled with holes, and also why a hundred people can remember the same event a hundred different ways.  Their own personal biases are also involved in the recreation of events.  How they think people should've reacted when saying something, etc., based on their personal experience/perceptions.

Oh the face stuff evolved before humans, and language.  Body language as you would say.  We don't consciously register most of it.  It just comes in as feelings to us as the viewer.  I don't think you need to be trained specifically, just trained to be able to put it into terms and communicate the concepts.  I saw studies where it seems about 95%+ of people can tell you a person's thoughts and emotions accurately up to like 80-90% of the time from just a picture of their expression.

It's wired up both ways still.  People that are blind their whole life still smile, even though they've never seen how it's done or seen it on their face.  Just like people recognize it's meaning.

You have to be very deliberate to fake it, and honestly people are not going around all day long with their poker face on, and trying to fool everyone every single moment.  I find most everyone is being very honest in their body language and face when interacting in real life.  I also see sociopaths from time to time, I watch them struggle to fake things they don't understand intrinsically.  Impulse reactions and calculated reactions work at two different speeds as well.  ^_^  You can see them sizing up the situation to figure out which mask to put on.

I wonder how harmless indeed!  XD  Angel halos are always suspicious. 

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Kifffia In reply to Shisho2k [2013-08-04 23:28:32 +0000 UTC]

Wow..I'd like to know how accurate are the memories of a dying person who sees his entire life being played like a film in his head. I heard it happened also to those who were convinced they were going to day but survived and they claimed they found memories they didn't even know about for the most of their lives.

..

Now I wonder, do the blind make fake smiles too?

I can't imagine a sociopath very well, probably because I never spent enough time with one to observe his/her behaviour. Although, I knew one very very fake affected person who often made me think that her face is just some kind of a mask. There was simply something wrong with her face expressions. As if she acted all the time. I guess even the personality would correspond to common description of a sociopath. But I can't be sure, I tried to avoid this person as much as possible..

Hmm, angel halos you say, so Chernobyl can't be as far as I thought then..  

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Shisho2k In reply to Kifffia [2013-08-05 01:46:23 +0000 UTC]

Probably less or the same inaccuracy as they were moments before.  XD  It's all horseshit up there, and we kind of know it, but still insist, since we do have some marginal degree of accuracy.  But a blip of chemistry can reroute and distort things many years later if the space forming that memory is relatively unused.  Only frequently used pathways reinforce themselves.  They call it neural plasticity, and it's a double edged sword.  You can also dwell on negative shit, and those fibers get stronger, and more tempting for your nervous system to travel them, making them stronger yet again.  Like muscles in a way. 

Yeah the life flash thing is likely any manner of hallucinations.  Scientists have found that our brain produces a substance called DMT (DiMethylTryptamine).  It's the most potent psychedelic currently known.  Way stronger than LSD or mushrooms.  People who have taken it say things like they go to other dimensions, see other higher beings and communicate with them, or things like being on a spaceship with aliens.  Some chemists that studied it (they can't verify this without really tearing into a living brain right at the moment these events happen) they speculate DMT causes our dreams, it could account for the near death and out of body experiences people have under stress, and potentially those alien abductions in the night when people go to bed.  Something quirky happens when we sleep that it gets dumped in various amounts, and under near death stresses or shock it can get dumped into your system too.  Seems plausible, but again, I don't think there's a feasible way to study it in lab conditions yet.  But our brains definitely produce it, and you can definitely synthesize it manually and smoke/inject it for 10 minutes of going down the rabbit hole.  The dangers only being psychological, since your body actually handles this chemical naturally and can break it down efficiently without any physical issues.  That's why it only lasts 10-15 minutes, because your body is so good at processing it.

Do blind people fake smile?    Of course, all the time, like this asshole:  www.trolleyblogs.com/wp-conten…

Haha, but that's probably true, I wonder if no one can tell, since their smiles tend to be a little unnatural seeming.  But wait!  Doesn't that mean the only real smile is that of a blind person!?  The rest of use look in the mirror and adjust our smiles over time?  I wonder now...  Mind fucked suddenly...

Imagine is that girl isn't so crazy, and can't figure out why no one likes her?    Sometimes I think about what human interactions would be like if we couldn't emote at all.  Like if someone started stabbing you, and all you could was look at them blankly.  Would it be easier to stab you to death if you didn't clue them into the pain and horror you were experiencing?  XD  How much worse would our behavior be if we didn't have these automatic impulses to react to reactions?

Oh, there's a lot of sociopaths among us for sure, more than I think we'd be comfortable with if we knew who they all were.  It's just like only 1% of them or some minority become violent or homicidal.  There's also plenty of shades of grey approaching it too.  A lot of us can be selectively sociopathic towards others, when we perceive other people to be less than human or evil.  But the 24/7 variety is much different for sure.  Generally fearless, and see other people as objects that are either going to help or hinder them in getting what they want.  (The second part honestly sounds like what we've become culturally anyway.  XD) 

I'm pretty sure that almost all of the richest and most "influential" people in the world are sociopaths.  They have a stunning edge when it comes to climbing over people's faces to get to the top.  Not to say sociopaths are guaranteed to make it to the top, they obviously all don't, but it seems like a basic requirement in business/politics/ruling.  A conscience in these areas is meddlesome, and will make you vulnerable to the next guy who is willing to sink to whatever low to bury you to enhance their personal gains.

I saw this documentary on Narcissism that was fascinating.  It's probably not totally scientific nor complete as any documentary is, but the people featured in it are pretty good examples I think of what we're talking about:  www.youtube.com/watch?v=94Uie7…

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