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knighted-feline — Sakuyamon 02
Published: 2006-12-03 18:56:57 +0000 UTC; Views: 2940; Favourites: 43; Downloads: 32
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Description
The pose is out of the manga, but I've made the image my own the best that I can. I still like Digimon seasons 3 and 4, so I thought it would be nice to add some more works up here.Related content
Comments: 85
These people were not offended by the piece, they were offended that I didn't meet their standards and definitions of art. If people were to put every work which was referenced into scraps, all their works would be there. If I should put the pics that are directly referenced to learn from there, I wouldn't mind that. However what's going on is not a matter of art theft or anything else related to art. It is a matter of people harassing others. It is a matter of self-righteous hypocritical individuals trying to start a fight.
Now I will say that the image is not traced, nor stolen. If people have issues with copies, even if they are hand drawn, stylized differently from the original, then they don't need to be in art much less looking at others art. People copy on a regular basis to learn and to improve. A technique suggest by every art teacher I've had that's been any good. The bad ones seem to just say go do it, without any personal instruction. It is a stage that I have stepped away from, if they had bothered to notice. A while back I have been suggested by a professional artist to remove it and make ready to put up newer works. Something I've been working towards. Now however I'm considering leaving it up for spite. Whereas I'm aware that's not professional, it has become a statement and an issue that people should not nor need they be harassed to take their works down. Especially when confronted by nosy busybodies.
Now I will suggest that to avoid such harassment DA should put clear policies against such treatment by others. Also, to avoid said issues, I would also suggest that new applicants get sent a protocol note as well to reference concerning posting art.
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I've already sent you a pretty long note, so this will be short. When I said "referenced", I put the quotations around it to mean that the word wasn't serious. I really meant traced or an exact replica of another work. I know that many, many artists (even popular or famous ones) reference other work or photos for their art.
Also, if you'd done what you should have when you first joined the site, you would know exactly what sort of art is allowed on dA, and what sort of behavior they scorn or adore. But I see that you haven't, so here, read this if you wish: [link] [link] and [link] . These should help you quite a bit.
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Actually, I did read. But some of these policies weren't here when I joined.
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Yeah, that's where it's smart to watch people like $chix0r or the community ops group, #communityops so that you can receive updates.
Or just check at least once a year to make sure, otherwise you could miss something vital.
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That sounds like something the people that run DA should be doing. Besides how the heck are we supposed to know when they've made changes unless they tell us? I don't mind checking once a year, but if they're going to change any policies, they should let people know. Heck, as far as I'm concerned they should be letting us vote on what changes should be made. We should be saying what we want, but then this wouldn't be a business for them.
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They do. I got the change of terms of service from Chix0r in my inbox, and there are forums and talks in community ops that deviants can give their own input into. It's just up to us deviants to pay attention and not delete their updates from our inboxes before deleting them.
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Most of what I seem to get from DA is either ads or notices of new features. Let's also say I don't really trust a lot of what they do here at DA. I've seen people here go through a lot of junk, while others walk away. I know they try to help, but many times I've seen bad situations pop-up on both ends that shouldn't have happened in the first place.
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Hence why people like me even exist here. And even though we're trying to help, I still get a lot of flack from the Admins telling them to let them do their jobs... except that they wouldn't find half the crap people like me find on a daily basis.
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Yeah, so you're trying to act like a neighborhood watch? Those kind of watches can work both ways to hurt or to help. Again, why I suggest a positive turn to it. Try to be like the peace officer. A peace officer is someone that tries to protect the peace. They're not there to start riots, or to arrest people immediately, but they are there to keep things from getting worse. Mind you they are paid for that position by the city. Otherwise they're just vigilantes. Vigilantism can cause a lot of trouble. Considering how much I love Batman, that's saying something.
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Uh yeah, that's what *I* do. In case you didn't notice, I was kind of the one who came to you to talk about it like a sane person rather than just calling B.S.
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I noticed. I was just reiterating...
I'm worried about a friend, MysticNitekatt that's why I've been on here so much today. He's not been very talkative. I'm hoping he'll write me or something. He's really, really rough right now.
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Okay. :]
Aw, hopefully your friend gets better. It's never fun when something's wrong with friends or family.
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Well, he seems to be better. He's not as talkative to me as he has been.
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The fact that he seems to be better is good, but maybe you should try to see why he's upset? Unless he's one of those touchy types who really would rather not talk about it yet.
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He's got GERD, insomnia, sleepappnia and a few other problems.
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Sheesh, poor kid.
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Yea, but it could be worse. He could have already done it.
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Aye, that is true.
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Well, thankfully he's reading replies as well and posting a few of his own. Apparently I've introduced him to somethings that none of his doctors have. That worries me about doctors.
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That's... a little scary, honestly. Doctors these days rely too much on money and aren't caring about their patients.
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Some of it is that doctors don't get the info that they need. Most of the info I gave him was stuff I was taught during the '80s. It was all about reducing stress. I had a teacher that had permanent insomnia. She only got about 4hrs of sleep a night. That's how I learned about it. I learned about "detoxification" and so forth that was needed for people with insomnia from her. I learned more about it later because I heard in my family it was common.
There's many factors that can cause insomnia and when stress is a major part of it, the stress needs to be dealt with. I'm by far no expert, but Gods I knew more than he'd been told.
Another factor is that we don't have enough doctors for people. Our health system is so screwed it's not funny...
I guess I'll stop here or else you'll get another lecture.
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That's true... They aren't making doctors like they used to (LOL), and the modern medicine system is basically all about prescribing some pill and moving on. If the problem persists, they'll try to give you some other medication, instead of using normal or natural cures for whatever it is.
Sometimes insomnia can come from many different sources... Stress, RLS, or maybe you just can't shut your brain down and relax enough to get to sleep.
Haha, yeah, sorry it takes me so long to answer you. Sometimes I see long comments in my inbox and just feel that I don't have the time to look at them. It's lame, but that's just how it is. I've got something called internet A.D.D.... Haha
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I know. Reasons why we need to revamp our healthcare system from scratch. Heck we are told "Life and Liberty" are inalienable rights, but how can we live after we've been to a doctor in the country? How can we have liberty when we've got to break our backs to survive?
Trust me, I know insomnia better than I'd care to. I've had off and on insomnia for three years.
I'm glad you keep responding. It's nice talking to you. I get that way with posts in my inbox too.
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Agreed. We're not free anymore, we're bound by our social security and medical debts. It's become ridiculous even to be able to just get a checkup at the doctor, and it costs so much to keep our insurance that most people can't even afford it. And yet the doctors are incompetent and we're likely to never be cured even if we go see them.
Ah, same here. Some nights I can sleep, and others it's just impossible. :\
It is nice once in a while to talk to someone with more sense than most.
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We've got elections coming up the 18th here. I'm going to be voting Democratic again. Right now we've got adds of people that are proud to be "Conservative Republicans." They're the reason we're in this mess. Do they really think people have that short of a memory? All they're going to do is make things worse. Hell if it wasn't for them fighting, we'd have some of the changes we need. Politicians for the most part are nothing more than grandstanding self-righteous ego maniacs. People with reason need to stand up and say let them finish the jobs they've started. We need to eject the people that are only looking out for the rich. There's nothing wrong with being rich until those people purposefully make it difficult for the poor to get money too. The rich are only 1% of this country, yet the control most of the money. They've used the politicians for the past thirty years to gain control of this country and it's time we took it back! We outnumber them. "to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security." Thomas Jefferson, Declaration of Independence
I've had to take up running the sounds of the ocean, or gentle music while I'm in the bed to sleep. Works better than I could have thought.
I appreciate the compliment, but I just consider myself an old fashioned American. I just try to hold on to the dreams and promises I was told about when I was a kid. I'd say, I'm a kid at heart.
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Whew, sorry it's taken me so long to answer. I've been awfully busy these past couple of weeks. I'm hoping that the elections went well and that we'll get better people (haven't been paying attention to those, either haha).
I might have to try your remedy for insomnia and see what happens. <3
Aye, I wish we all could be like that. Instead, a lot of Americans these days are so into moving on and getting further and further into technology - which is ruining this world.
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Well, a lot's happened here too. We've lost internet at the house so I've got to hit the library. We've got one of the biggest dumbasses nominated for Republican senate. Rand Paul. YIKES! And the fact that the conservatives are going nuts for him is disgusting.
I hope the suggestion helps.
It's not the technology that's ruining the world. It's the lack of decent leadership, selfish desires and lack of balance in lives. I would rather a world where we believe in the possabilities and good, rather than looking solely at the bad. It really is a choice, so I make certain that if I ever catch myself being something I don't want to be, I do that which I want to be.
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Been a while. :] I'm in the middle of moving across town and don't have a computer to call my own there yet, so I have been checking in off and on but not really doing much.
Me too. :]
Agreed. There are many names for that, Power of Attraction etc, and I try to live my life by it. Sometimes it can be hard, since we're naturally programmed by those around us to think negatively, but it's a good thing to strive for. :]
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There's a lot of life changing stuff happening around here too. So much I can't talk about for a while because everything is in so much flux. I'm almost as stressed out now as if I were moving as well.
If the people around you are being negative, then you've got to convince them to be positive or find ways to not be around them. There's a phrase that describes situations where people want to bring you down just because you want to succeed and keep you where you are because they don't want to see others around them go away or get too far ahead; it's called a "crab bucket." Read "Unseen Academicals," by Terry Pratchett. Heck, read all of Pratchett. One of the great things about Pratchett's writing is that he's really positive and really encourages people to be the best that they can. He's someone I aspire to be like.
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Ok--this is bullcrap. The man has defended his work before waaay back when someone accused him of theft and now "cygnus" is trying to pull the same thing. Knighted-Feline did give props to the artist in the caption for the picture IN THE FIRST SENTENCE.
I've read the Digimon manga and seen the image that Knighted-Feline is basing his upon. 1)He's changed the entire background; 2) Sakuyamon isn't holding another digimon in her left hand anymore; 3) the dynamics of the context of the image are completely different. I haven't even studied art and I can pick that out.
"cygnus" can follow Kheper's quote. If you don't have something nice to say, then just leave the person alone. Bitching your opinion to the world doesn't change that Feline made the piece of work and that others can enjoy it.
I personally like it for what it is--another great image of Sakuyamon ready to kick butt.
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"The pose is out of the manga, but I've made the image my own the best that I can. I still like Digimon seasons 3 and 4, so I thought it would be nice to add some more works up here. "
i dont see an artists name here. and *xx-Cygnus-xx is a real person. quotation marks are not needed
and i think i was being nice. i didnt go OMG YOU TOTALLY COPIED THAT LOL LOSER
i could have talked a gang of trash but did you notice the compliment i gave? no.
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Thank you. Very nice response.
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He didn't "recognize" the image he read where I got it from. If he'd seen the original, he would have seen many differences. Like the fact that Sakuyamon isn't carrying another character. There also aren't any reflective lines on the original, you cant see the thigh on her left, the buckle looks more like the one I've seen on the show, you can see the hand going into the glove on the right hand of mine, the inner thigh muscle is only hinted at in mine, also bits of the straps are visible under the breast plate of mine, my hair doesn't circle around to the top, also if you could see the fine grey lines you'd see the pubic bone doesn't protrude as much in this one, her hand is much further up the staff in mine, a high light of the calf in her right leg is visible where as in the original it is not, The hand she's holding the staff with is smaller (my bad there), the helmet ears are wider apart and the original was done with screen tone this is pen and ink. Now other differences include a tree background shape and her blending into a solid background.
Let him fight his own battles, don't do it for him.
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cool story bro, no really it is. i would let him fight his own battles but you decided to be a brat and block him.
and since youre being a twat to me you didnt even see that i said you have talent. i pay you a compliment and you get mouthy. nice one.
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Well, guess what I did notice the compliment. That's why I gave you the nice response. Now you've resorted to name calling yourself. Listen, compliments only go so far when you're talking to someone.
I gave him the chance to agree to disagree. And he pushed it. I asked him to drop it and he didn't. That's why I banned him. He couldn't be civil. I've got work of my own to do, and I don't have time to keep arguing. So, if people want to start resorting to immature name calling and juvenile behavior, I'll do the same to anyone.
If you want a discussion as to what art theft is as far as the art world is concerned, then that's a discussion that is very long and very, very in depth. It's also more suited to a discussion board and not a comments board on someone's piece. If you want to discuss it, then that is the place to go. Invite a person to a discussion about it, don't go off half cocked because you're defensive.
Let me reiterate what was said before by your friend, "I was going to praise you for making a decent looking original picture until you mentioned that you stole the pose from a manga."
As far as the artist's name, I didn't know who it was originally. I drew a quick sketch from the book before I bought it. Yeun Wong Yu is the artist of the comic, but he didn't create the character nor did he write the show. That's why I stated manga, I had no idea who would really deserve the credit for it.
Now will the continue civilly or do I need to ban more people? Mind you, you've already got two strikes in my book, one more and I'll ban from my page as well. Now if such behavior continues I'll have no choice but to turn to the administrators to come and intervene.
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i was ready and willing to listen to you until your let him fight his own battles comment. i would have even asked if you could show me a picture so i could compare the two and see who was in the wrong, if anyone was.
so youre going to tell me to let cygnus fight his own battles, yet your gonna threaten me with bringing an admin into it? should we tell them about your transformers and darth vader wall papers? just because you manipulated another persons photo doesnt mean its yours.
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Actually according to how DA defines art theft, "Current deviantART policy considers copyright infringement to be any situation where a user takes the original art, photography, or writing of another person (a 'third party') and then either misrepresents the original, unaltered work as one of their own creations or includes the work (either altered or unaltered) in a new image or piece of literature without the proper permission of the copyright owner." As far as I know, all of my manipulations images were all stock or the copyright is no longer held here. If they are not, then I will remove them. It wouldn't be the first time I did such of my own accord. Now all the images you mentioned with the exception of Transformers, are also, "altered significantly from the original in such a manner as to be recognizably different from the original," which was the standard when those were originally posted. That's been about four years ago. For this one three and a half years ago.
I know that the Transformers images used are stock. I found them on places where they were posted as such.
Also, I'm not making profit off of any of these images. Believe me... All I wanted the manipulations here to do are be that which I created for myself and to share with others of similar interest. This Sakuyamon was as I said sketched from the original and then the book bought later. As you know there's a lot of bad, bad, bad images of all sorts of Sakuyamon, this I thought would be a nice way to say, I like Sakuyamon. I wish the company would have used something like this to promote her on posters, but... Anyway, all I want to do on my page is to share the stuff I've made for myself. I'm not charging for any of it or saying it's mine unless I made it myself. I'm also saying where I found it whenever possible. Unless it's 100% mine I never say it is, I always give reference to where it came from, if I know. But guess what, there's a lot of art out there that is taken from other sources. You can't see adds that aren't, you cant see movies that aren't and you can't see TV that isn't. That's how the world is. The Flintstones was taken from the Honeymooners. The Jetsons from the Flintstones. Scooby-doo was taken from Doby Gillis and Frank Sinatra. People have been around for about 100,000 years and do you really think that for the past 500 anything has really been new? Heck for that matter anything in the past 2,500?
I said let him fight his own battle because it was his issue, not yours and he failed to be civil. You as his avatar, didn't set a better example. Now you are. Thank you. However, threats are not a way to win people's friendship either.
Believe it or not there are certain leeways granted to those who are studying art and graphic design. These are allowed as long as the character is represented in a dignified manner in accordance with the representation of said characters. That and Lucus has pretty much allowed fans to do anything with his works as long as they do nothing to disgrace the Star Wars brand. He wants to see what others will create for him. I found that out while making my own lightsaber battle video.
Let me ask, why is this such an issue for the two of you? He had his say, I had mine and was willing to leave it at that, but he and you have kept persisting? I've tried to let things go, but you keep coming back for more. I tried even to be funny and let it go, but received not but hostility in return.
The reason I talked about Admins is because I wanted you to know where this was heading if it continued in the same vain. I have no ill will towards people, but I will not accept bullying or harassment either.
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i saw your lightsaber video, well like a few minutes of it. i also saw your journal about your copyright infringement, which honestly is not. they may have used the same name but theyre pictures look nothing like the people in your video. no one responded to your journal and the pictures are still up.
you also have to realize DA changed their policy recently. as for that darth vader episode III pose its highly recognizable, as is optimus. and the rest of the transformer lot. i forgot to mention your sailor moon bootlegs.
as for your admin threat i can tell you what theyll say: 'use the block tools we provided for you.' and believe me, if you think im bullying you, you might want to consider what bullying really is. and trust me, ive been picked on every day and called every name in the book. you say threats arent a way to win peoples friendship... yet you threaten me with the all mighty admins. was i hostile to you in my first comment? no. you went straight on the defensive. i started out civil and mugged you off to see how youd react, just as i expected. you say we keep coming back for more, yet you keep responding. if you dont like what we have to say block us.
i think you need to reread everything, take a deep breath and have a bloody conversation instead of putting your guard up. thats what i wanted but you got cheeky at the end and ended up getting abused. that first comment was rewritten several times and started off much worse.
and why do we care so much? because were sick of seeing people passing off other peoples work as their own. you can actually draw and colour and ink. (gasp! another complement!) would you rather some art thief hunter come by and scream bloody murder to you? and i doubt hasbro and lucas arts lost their copyright on their pictures so i doubt theyre stock. you say in the transformers one you THINK theyre stock and no reference link, even though you just told me it is stock. are you seeing where im having trouble believing you here? ive heard what youve said from proper art thieves millions of times.
i really dont expect you to have a decent conversation with me. most defensive people keep saying the same thing. to be honest youre very lucky. im hardly ever this civil. with anyone. so unless you want to lower you bloody shields and discuss this without getting your feelings hurt ill give you a second chance. something i rarely if ever give out to anyone. or you can not respond and well leave it at that. ball is in your court now mate.
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Okay, last time. I've already stated why Sakuyamon is not art theft. IF you feel that definition clashes with yours. Sorry, but that is how it is defined by professionals where I was taught.
The copyright issue got settled between the two parties involved.
I've said all there is to say about Star Wars.
Transformers, if you want the stock, all you've got to do is search for it yourself. It's actually a pain to find, but worth it. And after I fond them no, I didn't bookmark because I didn't intend to get any more. I wanted to make one image and share it. I wanted to make a statement that just because MB doesn't like a character, doesn't mean he can kill that character off. It's a fan thing.
If you're a fan of Sailor Moon then let me say that the original covers and inserts were horrible. There was no life in what they represented. There was no fun in the covers. The only good ones I saw were in the Korean and one someone did for the Sailor Stars box set. That's part of why I made those images. If any SM fan agrees with me then they can take these and use these instead, but it will be obvious they're fan made because I think they're a heck of a lot better than the originals. They were made with images they had access to, so you can't tell me they couldn't do it, they just didn't want to.
Launching a statement that accuses anyone of theft, even alluding to it is consider aggressive behavior.
You say, "I've been picked on every day," Well mate, you're not the only one. Lots of people have. Guess what you're turning that aggression toward someone who's done nothing but stand up for himself. And the difference between standing up and being defensive is that you're willing to talk and settle things where as being defensive is constantly counter attacking. So, what would you call it? What would you call personal attacks and name calling? "Mugging someone off," is also considered aggressive behavior. You want to know why people go for the admins instead of talking to you, that's why. A bit of cheekiness isn't a cause for anyone increased hostilities. Though I've found, through experience that most people that take offense at it are people looking for a fight. Gee, another sign of aggression.
You're not the only one that's kept this civil. The fact that you've actually chosen to try civility is the only reason I have responded to you and will make this my last response to you on the subject.
On a personal note, I don't give a rats tail about compliments if a person has shown the kind of attitudes you and your mate have. The majority of people I've met don't also don't care. Have you thought that maybe, possibly the reason you get so much guff from people is that you create situations where that occurs instead of trying to make friends or at least leave people alone? Come on mate, have you never thought you've got attitude problems? I'm not trying to be personal, but am I the first one to say this? If I'm not, then it might be something to think about.
Also, you said, "I've heard what you've said from proper art thieves millions of times," does this mean you, who have no vested interest in the work (i.e. you don't own it), have gone around accusing people millions of times? If so then doesn't that sound as though you've got problems and not the people you harass? Even if it was only a few times, that still speaks of issues.
I've always said, that if any if the owners of any of the works don't want me to show what's up in my gallery, I'd take it down. The only people on DA that have that authority is the Admins, or the copyright holders. Where is your place to say anything of the sort to anyone? If you've got a legitimate beef with someone, that's different, but to accuse someone, that's just pure hostility. Now legitimate beef would be if you were the original artist, otherwise it's not your concern.
I'm only standing up, due to the situation. Anyone would be given your constant aggressiveness. I use aggressiveness here in the sense that you won't let things be. I haven't commented on anything I've seen outside of the conversations, because there's no need. The fact that you've decided to go through my journals, and my gallery in looking for things to bring up does not endear you to anyone. It shows you've got good instincts as a researcher, but that's about the best of it. What shines through more is obsessiveness and again hostility. If you want to make friends with people, that's not how it's done. If you think a person has stolen art, then you have the right to go to the Admins or say your piece and leave. It does not do to keep going back and continuing an argument.
Now as I have said the last thing I'm going to say to you on this matter. I'm going to close. Let it be known also that to respond to this post will be considered harassment because to do so serves no other purpose but to distract. As stated before, I have other things to do. I have wasted a fair amount of time on this discussion. If you want to work on your aggressive behavior and talk about the bulling you've experienced in the past and ways to deal with people that won't come across as juvenile, aggressive, and spoilin' for a fight, then I shall, but don't expect an immediate response, as stated I have work to do.
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It doesn't matter if the rest is original or not. Copying is copying. Especially when done so gratuitously.
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Fine, then don't enjoy the Mona Lisa, don't enjoy Shakespear and don't enjoy TV what so ever. Espeicially don't enjoy anything animated for the past forty years. I you want to talk strictly drawing, painting and so fourth, don't enjoy David or Rembrandt. Borrowing a pose is not borrowing a work.
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It's not borrowing, no.
It's theft.
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The we'll just have to disagree.
Theft would be if I were to take a picture, trace it and call it my own. Theft would be if I were to take every element that was in the original and reproduce it 100% and called it my own. Theft would be if I were to take the original and scan it and call it my own. Theft would be if I were to take the character and call it my own. Now considering that I took the original, changed the lighting, took out a character in the original image, changed scale and changed background (which the original had none), as well as changing some minor anatomical problems with the original, it is not theft. Instead it is a individualized copy. True it's not original, but it is not theft. It's like people who study the masters. They sit all day at museums and reproduce, the same painting until they have a replica of the originals. Some people make a living making exacting copies of great masterpieces. Some even go so far as to reproduce the crackling of the varnish or oil paint. Theft would be if they hid the originals and sold that copy as the original or selling that image as the original itself. Get it straight. I wanted to learn what Sakuyamon looked like. At the time there weren't the fans and there weren't any figures left on the shelf, all I had were small images that I couldn't make details off of. Now this pose I know was taken from Super Sentai, and Sentai took it from martial arts, so the pose isn't that original either. It's as I said, there is nothing original out there.
Now, if you don't like the piece that's fine. If it offends your delicate sensibilities, that's fine. You don't have to look at it, you don't have to do squat, but leave it alone.
Now if you continue to respond negatively instead of citing difference of opinion, I'll just ban you from my site.
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1.) This isn't your site
2.) You can't ban me.
3.) You're unoriginal and untalented. Deal with it.
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Nice picture of a very pretty woman-digimon mate. Keep up the great works
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Glad you like. I hope to have some more stuff up. Just don't know when.
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