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LaCroixGrimoire — Dobson Development!
#andrew #commission #dobson #edf #operation #preston #tom #encyclopediadramatica #tompreston
Published: 2014-06-25 23:24:17 +0000 UTC; Views: 2646; Favourites: 8; Downloads: 0
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tompreston.deviantart.com/jour…
Our review was finally discovered! Well, I say 'finally', but it didn't really take that long. So in case Dobson decides to sate his curiosity, or if any of his fans find it, OR for you all sitting at the edge of your seats, here's my response.
"Recently I found out that one of the commissions I undertook a while back was, in fact, a setup. It was hired by forum members of Encyclopedia Dramatica, one of whom I actually use to talk to and have good discussions with. They pooled their resources to pay for it, sent me the info and money, and then proceeded to sit back and document everything I did or didn’t do per their highly specific criterias. The user in question then posting a lengthy take-down (though through a disclaimer on the top of the journal it’s clearly not a takedown! lulz!) here on DA."
>>Used to talk to and have good discussions with.
>>Used to.
Yeah, that's the problem, Dobbles. You know, I was trying to help you for a long time, because I thought maybe you really DID care and maybe you really COULD do better. You convinced me otherwise. Maybe you shouldn't have shit all over me for having the audacity to question your 'scientific facts' if you liked those 'good discussions'. Maybe you should have apologized for your unjustified behavior toward me instead of just blocking me. Maybe then I could have presented this criticism to you in a far less deceptive manner, as the only way to get through to you seems to be to shove things in your face repeatedly. I take that back, I still haven't figured out how to get through to you. Oh, and 'highly specific', really? This all seems like common sense to me.
And for the record, it is a legitimate review.
"The journal in question talks at great length about my seemingly lack of transparency. IE: that I don’t communicate every little facet of what I’m doing to them, such as the number of commissions I have, what my “job” is, what my home schedule is like, etc. And honestly? This is WHY I’m not transparent. Things like this are why I don’t talk about my personal life, especially not to my clients. Because, frankly, I can’t trust anyone. Nor is it really anyone’s business what I’m doing in my private life. I’ve been trying very hard to keep my professional and private lives separated, and it’s kinda hilarious that these uses are angry because I won’t freely divulge information anymore about my situations."
No one is asking for 'every little fact'. You may have noticed my specification that you can keep your own paying customers updated about where they are in the line without divulging any sensitive information at all. If you're afraid something can be used against you, that's probably because you are doing something wrong. I know you think we use EVERYTHING against you but it's really because you make it too easy. No one wants to see the big stains on your sheets, believe me. But there's a difference between detailing your personal life and just giving a legitimate reason for your constant delays on my product.
"The user also goes into length about how my commission methods are “flawed,” but curiously the fact that I was getting happy responses with what I was producing gets ignored. While there were a few suggestions to fix thing (some of which I did, some of which I didn’t per my own artistic aesthetics) there was never any outright demands or insistence that what I was producing wasn’t to their liking. Most of the time when you commission an artist to draw something, you give them a bit of free reign to draw however they want. Had I known that this was going to be judged on a stricter level I would have worked with them a lot more. So I can’t help but feel like the whole point of this was to set me up to fail, and that they deliberately went out of their way to achieve the desired results they set out to get."
"Per your own artistic aesthetics?" There is no excuse for the way you completely ignored and refused to discuss the changes I requested. And it is MY picture that I'm paying for, you can't even give me the thing I actually requested? It has to be YOUR way? I even asked if you were just... NOT going to make those changes I asked for, and you didn't even bother to respond and explain that, no you weren't, and what your reason was. Why is that? Instead you just ignored the email until I sent another after another MONTH of waiting. Believe me, I did NOT set you up to fail, you did that on your own, and everyone can see that plainly by reading the account. Nice try. "Had I known that this was going to be judged on a stricter level I would have worked with them a lot more." So basically you're saying that you're only going to try your best if you know everyone else is going to see what happened? Why wouldn't you work with me a lot more on the simple grounds that I was a paying customer?
"now with this latest incident I don’t know if I really even want to take commissions ever again."
Good. Stop ripping people off.
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Comments: 47
I owe you an apology. We clashed several months ago in the comment section of a Tom Preston-slamming art piece (by another artist.) I don't like artist bashing in general and defended him.
However, the more I see of him, the more I understand your POV of Tom Preston.
I used to feel bad for Dobson and even defend him when I encountered his numerous "haters. " But his inability to keep his problems/pet causes (as shown in his latest journal) in perspective have disillusioned me.
And his self-pity is hard to stomach.
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Oh I doubt you really owe me an apology, but thanks none the less. To be honest, I don't particularly remember that event, but that conversation does happen from time to time, lol.
I'm somewhat glad you've seen another side of that issue. I assure you, many of us don't just go around bashing artists to be dicks. Dobson and I even used to be friends before he repeatedly scorned me. He's a special kind of difficult... Been deteriorating a lot lately, too.
Well, feel free to chat me up about it if you want to! Sorry we had a bit of a tiff in the past, but I have no ill-will.
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Dobson journal entry on this matter is truly a painful lecture - even moreso than the previous attempts at painting himself the victim, as your commission should have been treated as a massive wake-up call by the BlueBear himself.
INSTEAD:
Your commission taking far too long? It isn't YOUR business what I'm doing with my time, invigilating creep! 
Lack of transparency? I do NOT have to trust the person that was willing to take a risk and pay me up-front!
"Had I known that this was going to be judged on a stricter level I would have worked with them a lot more." Jesus Christ... this isn't funny anymore, this is tragic. 
"I have about 4 commissions left to finish, and now with this latest incident I don’t know if I really even want to take commissions ever again." One incident is all it took to kill his passion for what he allegedly loves?
Cue the 380 comments worth of asskissing from people that have been carefully bred by Dobby to never see an error in his ways.
Funny how he is quick to overlook the fact that you're also an artist with respect for your own work and instead he cries TROOOOOOAAAAAAAAALL all the way because "LOL le evil ED XD".
I wonder if he takes a lesson from this misadventure nonetheless or is he going to piss it all away because his fragile ego has been intruded upon.
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Well, he's deluded himself for YEARS upon YEARS at this point. He's getting more and more used to a constantly thickening bubble. Perhaps if that bubble of delusion were to pop it might send him careening into a massive depression.
But it might be too late for it even pop at this point. He's worn it so long that it's become his reality. I highly doubt even the loudest noise will wake him any more. We can't fix him, so we must cut the losses before he causes more damage to impressionable younger artists.
(Actually, keeping him around could mean less competition for us... hm... what would a boy scout do?)
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" less competition "
Not really - people with a good capacity for learning and improvement will eventually recognize that at one point someone has left them with a hindering advice.
I hope I'm exaggerating, though - as this would imply that Dob is essentially creating people that might wish to intentionally and deliberately destroy him somewhere in the foreseeable future.
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" less competition "
Not really - people with a good capacity for learning and improvement will eventually recognize that at one point someone has left them with a hindering advice.
hmmmm... Good point.
I hope I'm exaggerating, though - as this would imply that Dob is essentially creating people that might wish to intentionally and deliberately destroy him somewhere in the foreseeable future.
This is a bad thing?
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Man, what's funny about all the asskissing comments is how many of them sound exactly the same. I'll be reading the comment threads and think I've reached the end of the new ones because someone is making the same 'those meanie trolls!' comment, only to realize it's actually a different person, lol.
And Tom basically disregarded me as a 'real person' and stamped the word 'troll' on my account ever since I questioned his straw-feminism and his tendency to claim things as 'scientific facts' with no evidence.
LEH SIGH.
Honestly though I do think I had some kind of impact on him. Only time will tell.
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I don't really know why he didn't just do as you asked. The things he was asked to do are a natural part of a commission, that's why you show the sketch right? So the client can tell you what to change and what they are happy with? I mean, it was lazy, you just asked him to change the size of the hands and leg to keep it in perspective but instead he got rid of the foreshortening because it would be easier. The thing he doesn't understand is that any customer (beyond his blind fans) would not tolerate that behaviour, at the very least he should give you a heads up that he might take a while and then he should make sure the work reflected 4 months worth of work. Its your money and your picture you should get what you asked for.
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>> Its your money and your picture you should get what you asked for.
Exactly. Even Tom knows this, saying quite succinctly: "Stop trying to be my boss unless you're prepared to pay me for it."
* comments.deviantart.com/1/4260…
We paid for a product, so it stands to reason that---when it comes to that product---we were his boss.
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That....that post hurt my brain. What, they were just telling him to post sources, that was just "argument 101" stuff, wow, what did being a boss have to do with it, lol.
Anyway, I think it all comes down to his inability to see his own wrong doings. Even with that most recent journal, he can't seem to see that beyond not being overly serious you guys were not doing anything unusual for a commission, if he had've put his best effort in, and followed the commission then you guys wouldn't have written the review quite as harsh, you wouldn't be able to if he did nothing wrong. The scary thing is that a lot of his fans think his attitude is the right one to have towards a customer. He makes out you guys were prying into his personal life, really you were just asking how long he would be, that's to be expected right? I'm not sure why he felt that meant to give personal details.
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I'm confused about the same thing. I always show my clients a sketch first and specifically ask if they need anything changed or fixed before I ink it. And then I don't even get to SEE Ridley until he's already posed in the background fully inked and colored. How am I supposed to ask for a revision then? I don't get to, I just have to take it. Because that's 'his artistic aesthetic'.
If it were like, a style thing, I could maybe understand it then, but it's just simple anatomy.
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Yes, if he didn't want to change anything and have %100 artistic freedom then he should have said he had a no review policy, you get what you get. Which to be honest is a dangerous thing to do with commisions but thats a different song and dance.
I did actually find it strange how he doesn't plan the WHOLE image, like you are supposed to do with a full painting. Both parties should have a fair idea how the whole image including background, would look. It would do wonders for his colours to. He seems to forget that the background, especially one that saturated would heavily effect the colours of the subject, he should colour them together. He doesn't seem to understand "bounce light".
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Yeah I totally agree. I mean, I would have probably still had something to say about a 'no revision policy' unless it was actually stated on his commission page up front. I always disclose my revision policy -before- people give me money. And I think that goes a long ways, because while I accept revisions I do limit them and I want people to know what to expect. But he couldn't even answer me about it when I directly asked him! Like, how does one justify that?
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Yes, he should tell you that before he receives the money, along with every other term of service. That's what any professional does before money changes hands, he should also give you a heads up if its going to be a while, I still don't know how he interpreted that as asking for personal details.
He should have been able to answer any question you had about the product he was creating, its his business it should be a pretty high priority. How he didn't have a rough idea of what the finished product would look like before he started colouring is pretty poor. I wonder if he has heard of "thumb nailing", it would help with his composition issues, its strange he didn't know about the background before showing you the sketch. He says his personal life keeps him busy but if he can produce 3 comics a week than getting a piece that was "right up his alley" should have been a breeze.
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Completely agree, again.
And as far as thumb-nailing, I'm not sure. I've seen him thumbnail for his little Alex ze Pirate comics though, and myself and many others noticed that his thumbnails or first draft will look fine but then he'll change it and the second draft will be, like, worse. I mean sometimes I wonder if he just has a poor eye, and if so, if that's something that can even be helped or not. Although ultimately I think just more studying and general art theory would fix it. Getting a BFA in art is all fine and good but it's not enough. I went to art school too, and I learned plenty there, but if I'd stopped studying after that, I'd be way worse off.
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It might be his poor eye, or perhaps like this commission he removes the interesting part because hes to lazy to polish it up. I also notice his lines and colouring is a bit dead, his sketches look somewhat more lively and flow better, like that one he did of that little fox rodent and the camp-fire, it actually looked somewhat professional. Its quite common for rookies to ruin a sketch with inking or colouring, it all comes down to technique. Also I always find adding things like a background in without having a rough idea what its meant to look like screws up the harmony, the thing his works are really lacking. Learning how to properly reference could do wonders as well....
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>>he removes the interesting part because hes to lazy to polish it up
That is a very insightful possibility. Hell, I've caught myself doing that sometimes and it's a nasty temptation.
Anyway, I have to say that I'm not at all upset about how this whole thing went down. It has sparked a lot of fantastic conversations between people, including myself and you guys. Thanks!
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Yes, it can be quite dangerous and I've been guilty of it as well and it can really kill a picture. Especially if that interesting bit is the whole reason for taking the picture beyond a sketch, if only he kept the fore-shorting and just fixed up the backwards perspective, it would have been a much better image. That and actually making Samus look like she was fighting Ridly, or interacting with him in some way, I mean she wasn't even pointing the gun at him.
Yes, it also gave me some insight on the attitude a lot of dA users have towards their commissioners, its kinda scary, I mean really "Customers asking how long my work will take? How dare they, CREEPS"
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Pertaining to my comment on the other journal: You seem very harsh. You have all right to be but I feel it might be going to far. I get you're trying to do good and notify people, but you shouldn't try to bring other people down at the same time. You seemed very high maintenance to me compared to most people. Like Facebook the needy girlfriend. Is there a definition for cyber bullying. You made your point, he made his, stop being a little drama freak, nobody likes those.
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" You made your point, he made his, stop being a little drama freak, nobody likes those. "
Your advice is pretty sound, but keep in mind that the person you are trying to defend regularly pisses all over this bit of online etiquette by holding every grudge that appeared within his heart and has already claimed that he is entitled to behave like a douchebag because 'being nice' at one time in the past arrived with no rewards but additional hardships.
I know a few artists that are far worse than Tom in terms of their workshop, yet they are not nagged on or ridiculed as they have a capacity to maintain a bit of civil approach even in the face of rabid haters.
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I believe Andrew Dobson/Tom Preston should be follow your advice. He is actually way more of a drama queen than Baconmoose seems to be.
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I think they're both being drama queens. I'm less dramatic and I'm a girl! lol
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Too much procrastination detected lol
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I'm sorry you feel that way. I wasn't specifically trying to be harsh, and I don't personally consider myself a little drama freak, but you're entitled to think so if you wish.
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No need to be sorry. ^^
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>>>Yeah, that's the problem, Dobbles. You know, I was trying to help you for a long time, because I thought maybe you really DID care and maybe you really COULD do better. You convinced me otherwise...(snipped)...And for the record, it is a legitimate review.
So instead of...I don't moving...moving on with your life you choose to set up this journal/commission to harass him? Are you just jealous of how famous he is or something? Sure even if all the points you bring up are true it doesn't justify your own actions here.
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Your point would have been more than fair if Tom Preston at this moment was an amateur, developing artist. Holding beginners to standards of professional industry without even mentioning the first few steps that need to be made is truly a destructive practice and something that only a petty tormentor would do.
Tom Preston, however, claims to be a PROFESSIONAL artist by all accounts and feels confident enough to actually tutor fledgling artists about the arcanes of his field of work. Online reviews of authors are omnipresent within professional level of artistic world - they are meant to provide personal feedback to people who wouldn't know better AND to authors themselves.
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I think it's fair to criticize Tom Preston from a business point of view, akin to Yelp.
I mean, that's the point of Yelp; other potential customers should be aware of the business practices of another, yes? If a Yelp review is negative, does that mean they're holding a grudge and should have moved on, and that their actions weren't justified?
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As an artist, I consider my involvement in the art community to be a part of my lifestyle, and that includes criticism, critiques, reviews, ect. And frankly I feel this whole event has furthered my artistic agenda, which was my intention.
I am not harassing him at all. Harassing would be to follow him around with insults, not post my opinions in my own internet spaces. I didn't harass him in the email exchange either. I was polite, even when it was difficult to be. If other people are harassing him on account of this, that isn't my responsibility. I never instructed anyone to do so. Although the only 'harassment' I've even seen is maybe the link-spamming which I feel utterly neutral about.
What actions of mine need to be justified?
And you know, if it compels your point, sure, a part of me does get jealous that I put so much time and effort into my career, art, and commissions, and someone else can half-ass it and be super famous, but on the other hand, at least when I get recognized I won't have sub-par half-assed art to be ashamed of. Also, that is entirely unrelated to my motivations.
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*splat splat s-spat splat*This is getting INTENSE! *howling farts*
To me, what I didn't like was how he mentioned that he would have tried harder if he knew he was going to be judged. Everything he makes can be traced back to him and used to judge his quality. Am I supposed to tell the people that I commission that I will be using their particular piece as an advertisement? That they should intentionally do better than they usually do to get people to sign on to work that doesn't have to meet the same level of quality? That seems deceptive.
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That's exactly how I feel about it. Like I really don't have to TRY to put this in a bad light, he does it himself with these statements. He blatantly admits he would have only tried harder if he knew it was going to be an expose, not just for the sake of giving a client a good product? And the part about why he refused my revisions too, because it would have been nice if he'd even just explained to me why he wasn't making them instead of just ignoring it completely after I asked, lol. But just the statement itself about 'his artistic aesthetics' is damning.
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"and now with this latest incident I don’t know if I really even want to take commissions ever again"- Lord Prestone
FUCK YEAH!! SO worth the wait!!
AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!!
I'm so happy gaiz.... I've got this huge fucking smile on ma face.
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I am rather horrified by that outcome - after witnessing how a sequence of uneasy drama was enough to force him out of EVERYWHERE save for his deviantART page and his own website, I hoped that he would recognize the faulty pattern and fix it before it comes crashing down at his passion - as weak as it may be.
One negative and explicit review of commission = WAAAAH! I don't want to draw commissions! 
I still shiver at the paranoidal thought that I might spirall downwards into something similar to his stage.
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But you can take critique and rude stuff really well, right? I mean, you do pretty well on EDF so I don't know why this would ever happen...
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I think there are a great many people who are amused by the outcome. A great many.
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You can't blame a commissioner on what went wrong with the time (4 MONTHS) I'm sorry but that's beyond unprofessional.
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No but he can completely fail to mention that in the slightest.
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By him not linking to the original, he's trying to hide what actually happened. You weren't mean or anything, the review wasn't harsh. And yeah he basically benefits completely out of it. I love that he's trying to fold the blame back to you too.
~*my artistic aesthetics#~
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Yeah because hiding information has done other people a load of good in the past...
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Except that it's not really doing anything to hide it, because now people are probably trying to find it, either out of plain curiosity or to come in and whiteknight for him.
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Oh ya it's easily findable , especially on tumblr. But I think most of them will take his word for it.
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He always has to be the victim, even when he wrongs other people. A tale as old as time.
I really seriously lolled at the 'my artistic aesthetics' bit. Really, that's your reason? You think your hideous proportion was 'artistically aesthetic'?
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I love the comments section. "OMG TOM UR THE WIND BENEATH MUH WINGS 4 REALZ I WILL COMMISH YOU"
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I like how they think the fact that we paid is a bad thing, lol. As I said, Dobson should take away from this that we have the financial capacity to support his career if he stops being such a fucktard.
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Exactly. What was bought and paid for was a front-row seat to his work ethic.
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This right here.
Some of the best $7 I've spent in a long while.
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