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Published: 2019-07-06 02:22:00 +0000 UTC; Views: 3599; Favourites: 29; Downloads: 0
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sorry mate if your only gay character is the villain that's homophobic.i know a lengthy explanation won't stop many of you, but i didn't spend three years studying creative writing and creative industries and further years still being essentially made to study queer topics to be taken for someone who knows nothing on the subjects.
if your villain is the only black person in the cast, it's racist. if your villain is the only woman in the cast, it's sexist. if your only villain is the only disabled person in the cast, it's ableist. logically the same applies to queer characters; if the only gay character is the villain, the story's probably homophobic. this is not the same as saying solely that if your villain is a black person, a woman, a disabled person, or a queer person, that it's racist/sexist/ableist/lgbtphobic. if you have marginalised characters on both the heroes' side and the villain's side, it's probably not attacking marginalised folks. but when you deliberately portray a marginalised person as a villain and have no representation for those marginalised persons on the heroes' side, it creates the implication that the trait is inherently villainous. black panther has a black villain, but that's because 99% of the cast is black. the lion king, on the other hand, has the villain be the only flamboyant and feminine (at a time when these were heavily gay-coded stereotypes) character (most of the lions also have lighter manes and fur than scar and he was named for a physical disfigurement he has, which Yikes).
the exact same goes for if you've got a bunch of bi/pan/ace characters as part of your main cast, but your villain is exclusively gay/lesbian. that shit's still homophobic; it implies exclusively same-gender attraction is villainous. that's homophobia even if you're saying "oh but it's okay if you're also attracted to the opposite gender/if you don't experience any attraction". and for fuck's sake, don't say "i think it'd be fun to write a gay villain". like it or not that's tying their gayness to their villainy and fetishizing both.
"bbbbut aeris!!! them being gay isn't the reason for their villainy!!!! checkmate!!!!!!!"
yeah no shit, my oc airou didn't murder a girl in cold blood because he was bisexual. but i still had to take care that not all my bi characters were cold-blooded killers without remorse for their actions, because that does create implications about bi people. you see, people do pick up on traits subconsciously, but might not realise they're doing it or can't bring those thoughts from subconscious to conscious. so it remains in subconscious, no critical thinking gets done, and that trait gets applied to bi people subconsciously in future, which contributes to biphobia. being gay rarely is the reason for someone's villainy, but when only the villain is gay and all the heroes are straight/bi/pan/ace, it does make it seem that only being gay could lead you into villainy, even if it's not the sole reason ("being gay will lead you to villainy" is a common homophobic belief, as well as blatantly wrong; people who have experienced hardship are more likely to be compassionate and good, while those who've spent their entire lives in privilege and then get denied something once generally do something horrible; see vast majority of school shooters). ultimately it doesn't matter if it's not the reason your villain is a villain; it contributes to subconscious thoughts in the minds of pretty much anyone who isn't already balls deep in queer theory like i am, which is most people.
"well, what if all your heroes are lgbt+ but your villain is cishet? is that cishetphobic??"
lmao cishetphobia doesn't exist, but we'll entertain the thought it does for a bit in the form it exists online. about the only instance i know of of a story where most of the heroes are LGBT+ while the villain is cishet is my fanfic, Danganronpa S, so we're pretty much forced to use a fanfic from an Australian queer writer who's made no money off of it whatsoever, when we've been able to provide films from a multi-billion dollar megacorporation to exemplify cishet casts against a queer villain. so let's entertain the thought that I somehow got the rights to Danganronpa, made Danganronpa S a canon game in the timeline as you can see this is already pretty outlandish, but maybe possible?) and that a niche puzzle-solving murder mystery visual novel somehow became as popular as Minecraft, Fortnite, Tetris, etc... essentially the Disney Renaissance film equivalent of a video game (and we've entered Impossible territory).
A. The villain is still marginalised; she's a dark-skinned woman. It's not my place to judge if it's racist since I'm white, but there are several good characters who are also dark-skinned.
B. That's still only a single instance of cishetphobia in a sea of cishet heroes vs a cishet villain, or cishet heroes against a queer villain.
C. She's implied heavily to not be the only villain. (EDIT: Now revealed to not be the only villain and essentially be the scapegoat of another villain, who's also cishet)
D. Hooh boy do I have something to tell you about the LGBT+ community's real life villains and what sexuality and gender they usually are.
EDIT: Since some people seem confused, I know, the fact my very clear explanations that transphobes who worship Ben Shitpeero should be able to read and interpret have suddenly caused mysterious issues that fuck with reading comprehension, I'll make an easy to follow guideline.
You have LGBT+ heroes, but all your villains are cishet: Pretty good! You're portraying queer people positively! ✔
You have LGBT+ heroes and LGBT+ villains: Also pretty good! You've got a diverse range of queer people and experiences and acknowledge that while queerness is good, not everyone who's queer is a good person! ✔
You have no LGBT+ characters whatsoever: Ehhh. You might be a straight person still researching queer people's experiences, not confident in writing queer characters. That's fine, I suppose, but I recommend getting into it. It won't sacrifice anything and LGBT+ people will love you if it's not a total garbage fire.
All your heroes are cishet, but you have LGBT+ villains: This is where the issues come in; like, the real issues regarding homophobia, transphobia, biphobia, etc. and where the stamp comes in. You may need to reexamine why exactly your only queer representation is in the villains' side. Like, even Voltron got it better than you at that point and in 2018 it was the definition of bland tokenism. Which I still love despite the trainwreck finale, but come on, if you're competing to get to the front page of r/iamverysmart then the least you can do is try to do better than Voltron.
i'll leave the comments open this time as some sort of fucked up gladiatorial circus ring for lesser clowns than myself to duke it out and see whether they can actually make me laugh or just roll my eyes at shit i've read 100 times before.
Related content
Comments: 40
MusicAndMovies1993 [2021-08-26 03:55:36 +0000 UTC]
👍: 2 ⏩: 0
quinncuddly [2021-02-28 04:10:52 +0000 UTC]
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bobnopdede [2020-11-17 18:31:02 +0000 UTC]
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Hepoxni [2020-07-22 02:26:51 +0000 UTC]
I agree with all of them except the Sexuality one because it doesn't make sense...
I only started adding sexulaties and genders other than Straight and cis just a few years ago.
In my series PhoenixTDM AIE, only one of the main characters is LGBTQ+ she is bi but she gets married to a male. The character PhoenixTDM is based off of me but she is a cis straight female while I am a trans pan male.
I don't believe in "villains" but one of my favorite antagonists in that story is bi and he marries a cis gay male. I don't see anything wrong with that...
The main antagonist I never gave him a sexuality (so maybe ace or aro) and another one is bi.
So yeah.
I have other stories but I can't really think of ones with antagonists in them.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
my3000thaccount [2020-06-20 18:59:08 +0000 UTC]
👍: 2 ⏩: 0
Robotic-Mind [2020-01-17 22:21:57 +0000 UTC]
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FANDOMkeyboard [2019-11-27 20:39:00 +0000 UTC]
Is it ok to have straight heroes,Straight villians and LGBTQ+ heroes as well as LGBTQ+ villians?
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
zleepy-paint [2019-11-02 20:00:10 +0000 UTC]
soooooooooo, by this, i can't make a villain character gay?
even if it bad is i have 3 characters for the same thing and 1, is pan and is a hero and the 2nd is bi and is a anti hero and 3 is gay or lesbian is a villain and that is wrong? it be that just one character that is only gay then it's a problem.
bitch please, there is more to a character then there sexuality.
people have the right to make there characters how ever they want.
i am sorry to disagree with u on this but gay characters can be villains.
👍: 1 ⏩: 1
littlesunshinelily In reply to zleepy-paint [2019-11-02 22:48:29 +0000 UTC]
me, quite literally in the description:
if your villain is the only black person in the cast, it's racist. if your villain is the only woman in the cast, it's sexist. if your only villain is the only disabled person in the cast, it's ableist. logically the same applies to queer characters; if the only gay character is the villain, the story's probably homophobic. this is not the same as saying solely that if your villain is a black person, a woman, a disabled person, or a queer person, that it's racist/sexist/ableist/lgbtphobic.
You have LGBT+ heroes and LGBT+ villains: Also pretty good! You've got a diverse range of queer people and experiences and acknowledge that while queerness is good, not everyone who's queer is a good person! ✔
you, with no reading comprehension: so,,,,, i can't make my villains gay????????????????? uwu sexuality isn't all there is to a characte,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ghnnnnngn
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YourClairyGodmother [2019-08-29 21:48:01 +0000 UTC]
*looks at my HC with the only gay couple being evil* I'm gay myself, so I think it's fine. Plus, who cares if their LGBTQ or straight, I'd rather have good characters!
👍: 3 ⏩: 1
littlesunshinelily In reply to YourClairyGodmother [2019-08-30 01:18:28 +0000 UTC]
it's not that simple that "me being gay means that i'm protected from ever being homophobic or holding a homophobic viewpoint, conscious or otherwise, ever". in fact it's a very poor justification. you're not exempt from holding homophobic viewpoints because you're gay yourself, and we've got to be more careful about holding homophobic viewpoints, else cishet people believe that said homophobic viewpoints are okay. I spent a lot of my teenage years justifying transphobic viewpoints with "I'm trans so it's okay", and it was only earlier this year that I realised most of those viewpoints were actually hurting other trans people and making it harder for them to find acceptance.
if your only gay couple is evil while all the straight ones are good, you should probably reexamine why it is; it's never "oh that's just the way it happened", that goes against a basic principle of writing: that everything goes into a story for a reason, whether consciously or subconsciously. you've managed to examine your headcanons long enough to determine your only queer couple is portrayed as evil, but haven't bothered to extend beyond why that is; probably because you do fear the revelation that it may be for a non-innocent reason, even if it isn't for a conscious reason. i recommend doing a little introspection; even if we don't come to the same conclusions, it'll be a good exercise for your brain and critical thinking.
while yes, everyone would rather good characters, it's not like "character's sexuality" and "character being well written" are mutually exclusive, see Shuichi Saihara from NDRV3 as well written bisexual representation, Undyne from Undertale being well written lesbian representation, Ray Holt from Brooklyn Nine Nine being well written gay representation, the gems from Steven Universe being good general WLW and nonbinary representation, as well as a good allegory for being trans. queer literature, however, is very scarce, and good queer literature even more so. good queer literature with a foothold in public consciousness is next to impossible to find; the latter three of the ones I listed are about the only examples. we're often either reduced to harmful stereotypes, or our sexuality plays no part in the narrative and it's just lip-service, a wink to the camera and a single maybe-maybenot hint - which is super frequently all we asexual people get. That's not good writing at all, that's lazy representation.
if we're gonna argue "i'd rather have good characters", then there's a slew of poorly written cishet character - literally so many, go to any cheap summer mockbuster or even blockbuster. But you'll notice that when it comes to badly written cishet characters, nobody ever really complains or says "I would rather have good characters" in regards to their sexuality if they get the girl and take her to the dance or whatever. however, if a badly written queer character shows up, that discussion often gets brought to the forefront, creating the implication that if a queer character isn't totally structurally flawless, that they don't deserve to exist at all, or that if your character isn't structurally perfect, that they should just be another cishet. It is 100% a tactic to try and reduce the number of queer characters in media, whether that's a conscious or subconscious effort.
queer people do deserve good characters and "good character" and "queer representation" aren't mutually exclusive. i care, because i have no good representation for being ace or nonbinary and it makes me feel very alone, it puts emotional pressure on me to describe to others how I am. media and literature are powerful things that, while aren't the same as reality, do impact reality; when queerness is portrayed positively, it helps all of us.
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YourClairyGodmother In reply to littlesunshinelily [2019-08-30 13:26:00 +0000 UTC]
Okay, before answering this comment, I just saw your other deviations, which show to me you are a very stereotypical "cishet"-hating queer SJW. I don't want to talk to you anymore because you seem like a very rude and spiteful person. I'm gonna repsond to your comment by making a journal about it and not talk to you anymore. Have a lovely day.
👍: 2 ⏩: 1
littlesunshinelily In reply to YourClairyGodmother [2019-08-30 23:37:42 +0000 UTC]
That's quite rude. After all, this is ad hominem; attacking the person instead of the argument. I've been nothing but respectful to you and kept the argument to your argument.
Ultimately, I judged you were exactly the kind of person who would attack me if I gave a rude response, and would say the exact same thing no matter how I responded.
It does seem weird to make a journal about the whole situation rather than respond to me directly; perhaps you too are addicted to drama when you can twist it the way you like.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
YourClairyGodmother In reply to littlesunshinelily [2019-08-31 00:08:21 +0000 UTC]
I actually responded to your argument. It's because I really don't want to talk to you, as you seem to be very bitter. I'm no coward, I just want to avoid conflict; two very different things. I don't like fighting online.
That's not true. And your response WAS rude, and kind of demeaning.
I actually hate drama. I didn't want to respond because I didn't want to make you angry.
👍: 2 ⏩: 1
littlesunshinelily In reply to YourClairyGodmother [2019-08-31 01:03:27 +0000 UTC]
You don't like fighting online, but you're going to publish a condescendingly written journal that call me insane, stupid, a SJW, a "bad queer stereotype", etc...? Sounds more like you don't like being retaliated against and you want to spout whatever you want without hitting consequences.
I was polite but firm. You didn't want to make me angry but you posted a massive journal that, again, called me a slew of shit ableist and queerphobic nicknames and brought my transness into question. That doesn't sound like what someone who doesn't want to fight or make someone angry would do.
Though it did mean that since you were gonna be condescending to me, I could just drop the pretenses and be a bitch right back. Of course, I can be a bitch without resorting to ableism and queerphobia.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
NummyPixels [2019-07-22 04:10:26 +0000 UTC]
me, an intellectual: *has all my characters be villains and they're all gay because I'm a chaotic evil lil queer and the cishets fear me*
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
littlesunshinelily In reply to NummyPixels [2019-07-22 09:18:23 +0000 UTC]
me: lol i'm gonna write fanganronpas with canon lgbt+ characters and tons of mysterious plot elements
also me: makes all the major villains cishet
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
NummyPixels In reply to littlesunshinelily [2019-07-23 05:51:02 +0000 UTC]
two opposite sides of the same gay rights coin, you and I
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
littlesunshinelily In reply to Nikaeshe [2019-07-07 08:13:18 +0000 UTC]
yeah really but yeah whatever
0/10, you're a fuckin basic ass pierrot
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
littlesunshinelily In reply to Nikaeshe [2019-07-07 22:30:32 +0000 UTC]
deepthroat my monster clown dong
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Iobunny [2019-07-06 18:34:26 +0000 UTC]
When I read what you wrote in the description, the first story that popped into my head was Silence of the Lambs.
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KashimusPrime [2019-07-06 13:16:08 +0000 UTC]
So then I guess Timon and Pumba being gay and raising Simba together as a gay couple doesn't register with you?
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littlesunshinelily In reply to KashimusPrime [2019-07-06 22:14:06 +0000 UTC]
Ah yes, the two comedy relief characters, forgot about them.
Doesn't really derail the entire post. 1/10, didn't even really try clowning.
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KashimusPrime In reply to littlesunshinelily [2019-07-06 23:02:09 +0000 UTC]
I didn't care for them either. But the fact still remains that they were clearly gay coded.
And I'm not the first one to admit Disney has its faults. I mean, if you look into it deep enough, Disney's pretty antisemitic with their villains. Sharp noses and features, even use sharp angles in their designs? No contest those are antisemitic features.
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deadstamps In reply to KashimusPrime [2019-07-08 07:54:57 +0000 UTC]
timon and pumba arent gay coded. if theres no evidence of them being gay or showing any attraction to men then its not gay coded. its just a theory/headcanon. itd be awesome if they were, but unfortunately its too ambiguous to be considered coding.
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KashimusPrime In reply to deadstamps [2019-07-08 12:14:20 +0000 UTC]
I seem to have had a fever dream where they made jokes about them being gay. Something to the tune of "They couldn't have one of their own so they adopted,"
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KashimusPrime In reply to deadstamps [2019-07-08 17:02:13 +0000 UTC]
I was running errands when it dawned on me, that's not TLK, it's Ice Age. My bad!
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deadstamps In reply to KashimusPrime [2019-07-08 18:39:22 +0000 UTC]
OH! ........wait ice age? they got gay coded characters in ice age?
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
KashimusPrime In reply to deadstamps [2019-07-08 18:43:57 +0000 UTC]
It was supposed to be a (homophobic)joke. It was in the first film. Don't think I've ever seen any gay characters in Ice Age. They always trying to ship them off which is why I lost interest after IAIII.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
littlesunshinelily In reply to KashimusPrime [2019-07-06 23:09:27 +0000 UTC]
On the one hand, yeah, Timon and Pumbaa are gay-coded. On the other hand, instead of being flamboyant and feminine, they're usually described as gross, whiny, and generally played for laughs. So you know, "if you're not a gay villain, you're a joke".
Yep, completely agree with the antisemitism comment.
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MegaDelphox [2019-07-06 06:01:34 +0000 UTC]
I wouldn't say it's full-on phobia, that's a bit extreme. More of a red flag than anything.
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littlesunshinelily In reply to MegaDelphox [2019-07-06 10:01:48 +0000 UTC]
you know the term "red flag" is meant to be a strong signal that something is, in fact, the bad thing it indicates, right?
pretty much every time i've given a red flag the benefit of the doubt, i've been proven very very wrong in doing so.
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MegaDelphox In reply to littlesunshinelily [2019-07-06 19:12:07 +0000 UTC]
It's not meant to be certain, just a warning. I'm not saying you're completely wrong
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littlesunshinelily In reply to MegaDelphox [2019-07-06 22:14:55 +0000 UTC]
pretty much every time i've given a red flag the benefit of the doubt, i've been proven very very wrong in doing so.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Lazer-Bunny [2019-07-06 04:23:39 +0000 UTC]
idk why people can't understand this, lgbt villains *can* be totally epic and cool, but if the villain is the *only* lgbt person *then* it's a problem.
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F0X-BITE [2019-07-06 04:05:29 +0000 UTC]
Then you got nerds like me who don't even give their characters a sexual orientation (at least...I don't usually list one)...I agree with this though.
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littlesunshinelily In reply to F0X-BITE [2019-07-06 09:59:15 +0000 UTC]
i mean currently i do have a character planned who i don't have a sexuality for (they're nonbinary but sexuality is whatever). i think freedom to decide is good, but i also think canon lgbt+ characters are needed.
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