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LunarDiaries — Jen Walters / She-Hulk - Then and Now
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Published: 2017-09-14 07:44:21 +0000 UTC; Views: 26026; Favourites: 395; Downloads: 0
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Which one do you prefer? While I like the theory of the current Hulk comic and that Jen Walters takes the mantle, I think the writing is poor and heavy-handed. It took to issue #5 for us to see the new Hulk.I'll keep reading, but I'll say I am disappointed with the writing & character representation so far.
Enjoy my quick pic of the two side-by-side (my interpretation). I gave my new Hulk bigger hips, because the comic art she just looks too manly. Sometimes Hulk gets these weird gorilla like proportions. I don't know how pro comic artists cannot represent a very muscular woman w/ feminine qualities? In this case, there may be virtue signaling involved and the point is to avert the "male gaze"?
Sigh I miss the old days of comics. I miss John Byrne and the classics.
Anyway, I have a new poll up. Let me know which She-Hulk / Hulk you prefer from the Marvel comic run!
Enjoy! Please fav if you like and please share and comment!
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Comments: 115
I'm going to say something that would probably get me lynched in parts of this website but I gotta vent it: Taking away She-Hulk's sex appeal was the best thing to happen to the CHARACTER of She-Hulk in AGES. The dark, psychological approach of the grey-scarred era, while a very slow burner, was a good look at PTSD and all that, and Jason Aaron playing off of that for the current Avengers storyline is brilliant. (I personally love when writers take the time to tell fanboys to shut the hell up and let them tell their story; Shuri's ongoing series spent a good deal of its second issue doing similarly RE: People who just want Shuri to be "Black Panther but with boobs" and effectively writes that original version of the character off entirely to the dustbin of history. Which was a good idea because Original Shuri's only purpose was to be worse at it than T'Challa and I HATE when characters are created for that, but I digress) Anyways, more of the right-side She-Hulk, please, Marvel, and more of what came after that.
Okay, I got that off my chest.
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I'm all for a writer wanting to tell the story they want to tell, but they have to be subtle about telling the fanbrats (the proper term for fanboys like the ones you describe) to shut up because it is very distracting for everyone else when the writer takes the time to tell the fanbrats to shut up without any subtlety. It's why I'm not too fond of Thor (2014) #5.
Also, I don't think anyone really wants Shuri to be "Black Panther but with boobs".
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Since I wrote that, I've read a lot more of the She-Hulk stuff in Avengers around that time and afterwards. It ain't a lot, to my dismay. Even the epiphany, which seemed to exist mostly to rile up angry eternally adolescent fanboys, had like, no follow-up, she just went back to being an angry prop for the most part, so in hindsight it just feels like Jason Aaron wrote that issue to rub how much more enlightened he is than basically anyone else in readers' faces. I hope whatever payoff he has for that is good, if he HAS a payoff for that in mind. Seeing the costume she got later on, I have my doubts.
I feel like there was some expectation that was abuzz over somewhere about Shuri possibly becoming the next Black Panther. Her first solo miniseries feels like it was written in response to something, with how much of the overarching conflict is Shuri trying to hold on to what makes her unique and not her brother in the face of mounting pressure from all sides to take up his mantle while he's missing in action.
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Yeah, that's honestly Jason Aaron's biggest weakness as a writer; when he gets on his soapbox, it's not only very obvious, but distracting as all Hel.
Hmm...I honestly haven't been keeping up with Black Panther outside of Avengers for one reason; Ta-Nehisi Coates. Let's just say that I don't necessarily agree with Coates' politics and therefore refuse to support him.
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"Monarchy and imperialism are bad and not even Wakanda is immune to that" is bad politics in your eyes?
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Oh, I'm not talking about that. Are you aware of how Coates views 9/11 first responders? First responders like my father?
Yeah, Coates doesn't think highly of people like that, and I think he can go to hell for that.
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I do like how they've been making her more bulky with muscle.
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The shear irony of the new She-Hulk is, she's now just a female clone of the Hulk, which is how she began before turning into the greatest 4th wall breaking character in Marvel (yes, even more than Deadpool). Now, she's back to square one.
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I see it like this. The She-Hulk on the right took part in a mission that had her exposed to more gamma radiation. It heavily affected her human form, turning her into a more on-the-fence version of herself, and it affected her hulk form as well, turning her into more of a monster.
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I prefer The fine one in the right. Not only I hate the new she-hulk(yes im calling it that cuz what it is) now just cuz of SJW bullshit in the book and it also huge step backward in her character. Yeah, she was female hulk and act just like him....in the 80s. She been involve outta that distaff counterpart for years. Its bad enough they made her hulk ugly proportion and manly looking as they did wilt captain marvel Carol Danvers.
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I think you mean the one on the left. I prefer the one on the left too.
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Yeah, damn auto correct. my bad.
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It's fine. Happens to me too.
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Agree with you about the latest run. Despise the new "Hulk" (She-Hulk) comic and hope it will be cancelled or rebooted. She Hulk has always been written with a sense of fun, whether it's been Byrne or Slott, etc. This "Hulk" series has none of that. It's just Jen being miserable - and while we like our Marvel heroes to have problems, this depression/PTSD stuff is just too much. It's indicative of the fact that social-justice types are never satisfied with anything in the world around them because it's all "problematic", so they always walk around grumpy and unfulfilled.
The very strengths of the She-Hulk character - representing the second-wave feminist ideal of the perfect Western woman who's smart, sexy, athletic and professionally accomplished - is an embarrassment to the third-wave intersectionalist types who run Marvel now, because She-Hulk reminds them too much of how Western capitalism can help a woman succeed. They want to see women depicted as straight out of Tumblr: androgynous buzzcuts, blue hair and piercings, combat boots, and thoroughly disgusted with patriarchy - i.e., looking more like Tank Girl. Even the very name - the Hulk's distaff cousin - is distasteful to these outrage-culture types, so they had to drop the genderized "She" (I've always thought they could rename the character instead, maybe something like "Gamma" to give her more of her own identification separate from Banner).
And yes, no doubt there is plenty of virtue-signaling. Mariko Tamaki was hired for reasons of identity politics: half Asian, LGBT, and known almost entirely for writing graphic novels that foreground queer themes. So of course she will de-objectify She-Hulk by masculinizing her body type, and of course she will inject forgettable gay checklist characters into the script, so she can impress her progressive hipster friends in Toronto. Nothing subtle or nuanced - it smacks you over the head like most sjw writing in the past couple years of Marvel. Many of the writers and editors they've hired recently at Marvel would better off peddling their poorly xeroxed 'woke' pamphlets at a zine fair in Portland or Brooklyn.
And the character lineup is lackluster. Other than her fairly bland girlfriend interactions with Patsy, there's no intersection with the Marvel universe at large, and all the powerful heroes and villains that She-Hulk has normally encountered. Instead, you've got situations that are difficult for readers to care about, but fit social-justice themes: a shut-in who was traumatized by an assault, and a gay couple with the shallowness of Will-and-Grace. The antagonists are forgettable one-offs, including (I'm betting) the stalker girl who's coming up, and the supporting cast is almost nonexistent. I can almost guarantee you that Jen will not have a romantic interest in this book.
Finally, the terrible art. Yes it's inconsistent. At least that works to our advantage in #9 and #10, when out of nowhere both the She-Hulk (although still gray) and Jen are suddenly drawn more beautifully
and visually appealing (and Hellcat looks nice, too). We also get a throwback cover on #9 hearkening back to the days of her tightly zipped-up Dan Slott era costume. Perhaps that was a response to readers' complaints, or maybe it's just the particular style of the latest artist. But who knows if it's going to last. And the story is still terrible regardless.
Basically, yes, She-Hulk is just another legacy character that Marvel destroyed because of its social justice agenda (and from Youtube, we can see that any loyal comics fan who tries to complain about
this to their writers and editors gets labeled a troll). They couldn't kill her off because she's female, so they just remade her as miserably as possible and, in addition, had her replace a male character.
Mission accomplished, Marvel. Your company is being destroyed and your sales are generally in the toilet.
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Do we ever actually see a proper transformation? Or is it just going to always be her eyes turning green, and then it jump cuts back to the normal and depressing scenes that's like watching paint dry, only having properly seen her transformed self in misleading cover pages.
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Probably not for a long time. It's too busy shoehorning political correctness down our throats.
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Do I have to choose? I like both
I like the pretty smart and green look but I also like my She-Hulks muscular and powerful. So something with the best of both would work for me.
And while I prefer green skin I do like her current design. The grey but with green scars is a great visual way of showing her trauma. Not only does she literally bare mental scars but the fact they are green shows the person inside her burred inside. It's a great way of showing she's changed massively while still keeping her connected to her past.
As for the comic itself. I wish I liked it more than I do. I'm breaking no new ground when I say it's horribly slow and decompressed. Needs more Hulk. And suffers from questionable continuity. The decompression and lack of Hulk is getting better, but needs more work. The continuity is less simple.
Jen has been brought to death's door and lost loved ones before. So the fact it's hitting her so badly seems a bit random. Specially as she and Bruce, while close, were not inseparable. She'd go for months at a time with out seeing or even thinking of him (Sometimes years in publishing time).
It's not about if he's died before. As far as I know Bruce had only died once in canon. Around Jason Arron's run. And he was dead for such a short period of time word of it might not have reached Jen. The bigger problem is Jen has lost her mother, her best friend, her father, Hawkeye, Wasp, Cap and probably several other people who escape my memory. But they're writing her like she's never lost a loved one before. And we as readers know Bruce will be back. So it's hard to get invested.
On the other-hand I do like how they show grief, trauma and depression. Not as single emotions and not at constant levels of power at all times. But more like a grey fuzz that can be stronger or weaker at different times, sometimes even sliding into the background. It's surprisingly mature and nuanced.
And I really like how they've written her in Hulk mode. Female superheroes with emotional issues all tend to look like Emma Frost. A perfectly functioning human being who just chooses to be unpleasant to everyone. That's not a deep character. That's a jerk. For once somebody tried to write a character like this as someone actually struggling. She-Hulk is shown as having trouble hold back, having guilt but flashes of sadism. Confidence going up and down. Violent outbusts. But also a deep desire to help others. She's actually shown as being good person struggling to do the right thing. Actual drama!
I can't remember the last time I saw a female superhero written with this many emotions and with so much thought put into her actions. It's honestly the most biggest shake-up and most creative writing in her history and it feels good seeing Jen used as a vehicle for this kind of story. One that the superhero genre need badly. And also the most serious story work and the strongest character arc Jen has ever had.
Now if only the story writing was good....
I like where they're going with all of this. But the execution is underwhelming When Jen hulks out and starts smashing things it feels great. This is the first time She-Hulk has ever felt powerful in canon. But Too much of the story is empty space. If the writing would focus this could be a masterpiece.
As is I just hope future writers (including ones working for She-Hulk) take notes and try these ideas again and make them work.
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I personally hate the new She-Hulk comics. It has too much of an SJW/PC mentality, negating the fun of the original comics.
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The ORIGINAL She-Hulk wasn't fun, it was like the current arc; Jen saw herself as a monster and was constantly battling to keep control over herself. It wasn't until John "I don't like how powerful Phoenix is so I'm going to sabotage Chris Claremont every way I can so that he'll HAVE to kill her off" Byrne got to write for her that she became a "fun" character.
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Mistake on my part. I know full well about the Savage She-Hulk era, but even then that was a borderline parallel to The Incredible Hulk. The Sensational era was a better era.
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It was a much more creative story than a lot of what was going on in mainstream comics at the time, but I don't think I would find it's aged well. Lots of other comics have used that sort of meta-humor since then, She-Hulk has grown even more since then and matured, and I really really hate John Byrne and begrudge that his good ideas were really really good, because he's just an awful awful man.
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I definitely miss the old Jen and can't wait for her return but I admit the current version had potential if handled right. Unfortunately the writing is atrocious and the art is horribly sloppy and yes tries it's hardest to remove any sign of the 'She' part of her name in her appearance as if to justify the ridiculous name change.I mean in the current arc she was fighting a mutated youtubing chef for crying out loud and before that it was some looney old lady who was being evicted.If it had been the old She-Hulk it could have been a funny and entertaining idea but now it's trash.Sorry for the rant.
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I much prefer the old version. The writing on the new one sucks, and someone as resourceful as Jen Walters was in the super community would know how to contact people within that community for help with her PTSD. Her one-time best friend Janet Van Dyne (who is helping the new Wasp deal with the same issues) comes to mind. I don't mind the new look, but I detest how they've handled the new direction.
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I noticed they made her very..."Hulky" but I mean I get it. I do love the current idea that they have for her, but they are slumming a little on the writing.
But I'm still gonna cheer for it. I've seen a lot of people taking shots on it, but I'm hoping for better.
Well done man!
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Thanks man!
Yeah I'll keep reading but I was stunned at the schlock of issues #9 & #10. They have her acting like Batman now standing on rooftops and jumping off and transforming on the way down?! Also being a jerk like hulking out on top of someone's car for no reason but to look cool? All the writing just feels like an SJW fanfic filled in with Hollywood cliches because reasons :/
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Lol I've noticed a lot of people throwing the SJW thing often. I don't think it's a social justice focus, but more so, a not very good attempt at diversity. Rather than making new, they shifted around old...and instead of writing that shift right, it's caused every nerd in a 30 mile radius to explode with fury.
But i'd take her bat drops over Secret Empire shitshow right now lol
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Look, I'm happy there is a She-Hulk comic. But Marvel doesn't seem to know or care. Simply put, Jen's a legacy now and isn't one of the big guns, has a movie or one of the super-hyped characters that came out in the last few years. It sucks, and we're stuck with it.
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The problem is they do care but they have hired writers to fill a diversity quota instead of getting real talent that understands he characters and stories. All new, all SJW Marvel isn't doing to well these days because of it
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Yeah. Thing is I don't mind diversity but only when it works. Miles Morales works because of Donald Glover and Bendis running with it. Kamala Khan works because there was an opening for a new Ms. Marvel and some guys decided to make her a muslim teen. but the others...yeah, it sort of just feels like diversity for the sake of diversity. I'm not against diversity but it really should feel natural and not forced...heck they tried it in the early 70s too and while we did get notable characters out of it (Luke Cage, Tigra, Shanna the She-Devil), a lot of them just fell apart or by the wayside as well.
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Looks like the 2017 version of Walters is jacked up on anabolic steroids. By my opinion when it comes with beauty, I go with the 2015 version as a favorite.
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Cool! It isn't like Jen hasn't been jacked up before.
Check out Avengers Disassembled(Red Dust story) or the issues of Sensational She-Hulk from the early 90's when she teamed up with Howard the Duck to see a real hulked out She-Hulk!
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I maybe one of the few people who like the new look. The story not so much, dragging readers through 5 issues before we even see a hint of She-Hulk.
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I think the new look is fine. My problem is so far:
1) Writing is really poor
2) They are constantly switching artists and the representations of her are inconsistent.
I'm pissed they got classic Dale Keown to do a cover variant and couldn't pay this man to do an entire issue! This man did the late 300's issue Hulks (370-400 roughly) as well as The Pitt for Image back in the day!
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Marvel isn't even consistent with that! Even the covers have her with various bust sizes its nuts
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Yeah and the sad thing is that the good art and stories in marvel are all books they don't care about or just to insignificant for fans to think about reading.
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That's cool too! All good!
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I prefer the old/classic one. She can be powerful yet still sassy and sexy. The new one is her trying too hard to be Bruce with boobs from what I've seen/gathered
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Cool yeah same here! Also the new writing is baaaaadd . . .
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Love the comparison, man! Both poses and lines are lovely.
Regarding your question, I'd like the new one more if the writing wasn't so bad. I mean: inconsistencies, terrible dialogs and so many other things are killing this new comic since it started. I've read it so far and each new issues is adding a new hole into this (in my opinion) sinking ship...
However, let's see how it all end up...
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Hey thanks!
Yeah the new run is poor! I'll keep reading but so far it hasn't been good
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I've never liked the grey Hulk- even when it was Bruce. And Marvel's idea to over-do the muscles doesn't help.
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Oh I don't mind grey Hulk at all, in fact I did like the Joe Fixit run! I don't think these new writers know what to do with Hulk now.
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They don't know. Jen was a good character just as she was. I can understand giving her some problems to deal with after CWII. But the current run's taking it too far and too long. I understand that some folks suffer from PTSD all their lives. But the problem here is that Jen- and most heroes- have seen and dealt with a lot worse.
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Very nice pic on both versions of the character. I just love the colors and style! Great job as always!
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