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Published: 2014-10-05 23:16:39 +0000 UTC; Views: 4253; Favourites: 22; Downloads: 0
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I thought it would be interesting to write an example of a terrible story and explain which parts were badly written and why.
So I wrote a funny Snape and Lily fanfiction, but then I realized there was an even better example called The Mortal Instruments.
It's a series that was originally a Harry Potter fanfiction, and still has lots of the same problems as a regular fanfiction even though it's been published.
"But those aren't problems, maybe I like stories that have those things."
Okay, you like them. *That's* an opinion.
The FACT is that they're not very well-written (meaning they're not something any kid you find walking down the street/off google can't accomplish writing). Consider this: the majority of fanfictions are written by beginners. Is it a coincidence that it's the beginners who all write this way?
WHY do people grow out of it? COULD any of it possibly just be immature?
Here I have inserted some comments into the story to highlight what I found to be the most fanfiction-like (and by fanfiction-like I'm trying to say immature) parts of the story. As usual, I care more about general story-telling than anything too mechanical here (for that, you'll have to talk to one of those grammar Nazi people. I'm not really one of them, so if that's what you're looking for, you're better off talking to someone else). Here we go:
As the Queen and Court laughed, the icy feeling in Jace’s chest intensified. (the words "icy," "firey," or "ran-through-his-veins" are always a bad sign)
Clary (I like how she has the same name as the author) didn’t understand faeries, he thought. He’d tried to explain, but there was no explaining, not really. Whatever the Queen wanted from them, it wasn’t a kiss from him; she could have demanded that without all this show and nonsense. What she wanted was to see them pinned and struggling like butterflies. (note the transparency of the overly convenient story arc. You can see that the author obviously wants this to happen so badly. It might seem more strategic if there weren't so MANY set ups that cater to anything romantic... or over-dramatic for that matter.)
It was something immortality did to you, he’d often thought: dulled your senses, your emotions; the sharp, uncontrollable, pitiable responses of human beings were to faeries like fresh blood to a vampire (be sure to mention blood as much as possible for extra fanfiction points). Something living. Something they didn’t have themselves.
“Despite his charms,” (an example of how the author constantly abuses surrounding characters to force certain opinions on the audience instead of proving them) the Queen said, flicking a glance toward Jace — her eyes were green, like Clary’s, but not like Clary’s at all (unnecessary focus on favorite characters whenever possible for more fanfiction points) — “that kiss will not free the girl.”
“I could kiss Meliorn,” suggested Isabelle, shrugging.
The Queen shook her head slowly. “Nor that. Nor any one of my Court.”
Isabelle threw up her hands; Jace wanted to ask her what she’d expected — kissing Meliorn wouldn’t have bothered her, so obviously the Queen wouldn’t care about it. He supposed it had been nice of her to offer, but Iz (a classic fan-fiction cliche: making friends shorten each other's names as a cute way of being affectionate) , at least, ought to know better. She’d had dealings with faeries before.
Maybe it wasn’t just knowing the way the Fair Folk thought, Jace wondered. Maybe it was knowing how people who enjoyed cruelty for the sake of cruelty thought. Isabelle was thoughtless, and sometimes vain, but she wasn’t cruel. She tossed her dark hair back and scowled. “I’m not kissing any of you,” she said firmly. “Just so it’s official.” (It's always nice when the majority of humor revolves around romance...)
“That hardly seems necessary,” said Simon, stepped forward. “If a kiss is all . . .”
He took a step toward Clary, who didn’t move away. The ice in Jace’s chest turned into liquid fire (another classic fan-fiction phrase); he clenched his hands at his sides as Simon took Clary gently by the arms and looked down into her face. She rested her hands on Simon’s waist, as if she’d done it a million times before. Maybe she had, for all he knew. He knew Simon loved her; he’d known it since he’d seen them together in that stupid coffee shop, the other boy practically choking on getting the words “I love you” out of his mouth while Clary looked around the room, restlessly alive, her green eyes darting everywhere. She’s not interested in you, mundane boy, he’d thought with satisfaction. Get lost. And then been surprised he’d thought it. What difference did it make to him what this girl he barely knew thought?
That seemed like a lifetime ago. She wasn’t some girl he barely knew anymore (yes she is): she was Clary (oh, here we go. The author is going to start worshiping herself(-insert) any second now) . She was the one thing in his life that mattered more than anything else, and watching Simon put his hands on her, wherever he wanted to, made him feel at once sick and faint and murderously angry (for more fanfiction points, always make emotions as intense as you can. Use dramatic words like "murderous" as much as possible. Remember, the audience is too dumb to make up their own minds, and it will make you sound more credible than if you just leave them out!). The urge to stalk up and rip the two of them apart was so strong he could barely breathe.
Clary glanced back at him, her red hair slipping over her shoulder. She looked concerned, which was bad enough. He couldn’t stand the thought that she might feel sorry for him. He looked away fast, and caught the eye of the Seelie Queen, glimmering with delight: now this was what she was after. Their pain, their agony. (It's usually best to steer clear of such insincere sounding paragraphs.)
“No,” said the Queen, to Simon, in a voice like the soft slice of a knife (another phrase that drips with fanfictionness). “That is not what I want either.”
Simon stepped away from Clary, reluctantly. Relief pounded through Jace’s veins like blood (Again, really?), drowning out what his friends were saying. For a moment all he cared about was that he wasn’t going to have to watch Clary kiss Simon. (The author insists and insists her characters are in love in narration only. That can never make up for sincere character interaction.) Then Clary seemed to swim into focus: she was very pale, (pale is always good. Use as much as possible) and he couldn’t help wondering what she was thinking. Was she disappointed not to be kissed by Simon? Relieved as he was? He thought of Simon kissing her hand earlier than day and shoved the memory away viciously, still staring at his sister. Look up, he thought. Look at me. If you love me, you’ll look at me.
She crossed her arms over her chest, the way she did when she was cold or upset. (can you hear the author? "Say awwwww") But she didn’t look up. The conversation went on around them: who was going to kiss who, what was going to happen. Hopeless rage (what is with all the cheesy phrases?) rose up in Jace’s chest, and as usual, found its escape in a sarcastic comment. (Yay for over-explaining corny, over-used quirks!)
“Well, I’m not kissing the mundane,” he said. “I’d rather stay down here and rot.”
“Forever?” said Simon. His eyes were big and dark and serious (is that supposed to be hot or something? Why is this sentence here?) “Forever’s an awfully long time.” (Do teenagers usually say "awfully," or is she just going with the first corny tone that comes into her head here?)
Jace looked back at those eyes. Simon was probably a good person, he thought. He loved Clary and he wanted to take care of her and make her happy. He’d probably make a spectacular boyfriend. Logically, Jace knew, it was exactly what he ought to want for his sister. But he couldn’t look at Simon without wanting to kill someone. (so impressive) “I knew it,” he said nastily. “You want to kiss me, don’t you?”
“Of course not. But if—”
“I guess it’s true what they say. There are no straight men in the trenches.”
“That’s atheists, jackass.” Simon was bright red. “There are no atheists in the trenches.”
(Note: when somebody never makes jokes that don't rely on anything inappropriate... it's usually because they can't. That's regardless of whether you mind it or not. Romance jokes are no more original. It's relying on the topic to impress people. Combining both is classic fanfiction territory.)
It was the Queen who interrupted them, leaning forward so that her white neck and breasts were displayed above the neckline of her low-cut gown (Why? why?). “While this is all very amusing, (amusing is another good word for fanfiction points. It's not a bad word in itself, it just happens to come up a lot for some reason. Usually because the author thinks it makes them sound smarter.) the kiss that will free the girl is the kiss that she most desires,” she said. “Only that and nothing more.”
Simon went from red to white. If the kiss that Clary most desired wasn’t Simon’s, then . . .the way she was looking at Jace, from Jace to Clary, answered that.
Jace’s heart started to pound. He met the Queen’s eyes with his own. “Why are you doing this?” (Because the author is immature and curious about pathetic love scenes that she abuses her characters for by using them as stepping stones to explore her unhealthy, over-emotional fantasies?)
“I rather thought I was offering you a boon,” she said. “Desire is not always lessened by disgust. Nor can it be bestowed, like a favor, to those most deserving of it. And as my words bind my magic, so you can know the truth. If she doesn’t desire your kiss, she won’t be free.”
Jace felt blood flood into his face (now it just sounds clown-ish). He was vaguely aware of Simon arguing that Jace and Clary were brother and sister, (nice plot) that it wasn’t right, but he ignored him. The Seelie Queen was looking at him, and her eyes were like the sea before a deadly storm, and he wanted to say thank you. Thank you.
And that was the most dangerous thing of all, he thought, as around him his companions argued about whether Clary and Jace had to do this, or what any of them would be willing to do to escape the Court. To allow the Queen to give you something you wanted — truly, truly wanted — was to put yourself in her power. How had she looked at him and known, he wondered? That this was what he thought about, wanted, woke from dreams of, gasping and sweating? (Again, this does not sound sincere at all. It's just patheticness for the sake of being pathetic) That when he thought, really thought, about the fact that he might never get to kiss Clary again, he wanted to die or hurt or bleed so badly he’d go up to the attic and train alone for hours until he was so exhausted he had no choice but to pass out, exhausted. He’d have bruises in the morning, bruises and cuts and scraped skin and if he could have named all his injuries they would have had the same name: Clary, Clary, Clary. (Riiight then)
Simon was still talking, saying something, angry again. “You don’t have to do this, Clary, it’s a trick—”
“Not a trick,” said Jace. The calmness in his own voice surprised him. “A test.” He looked at Clary. She was biting her lip, her hand wound in a curl of her hair; the gestures so characteristic, so very much a part of her, they shattered his heart. (I think the author desperately wishes someone would over-analyze her this much.) Simon was arguing with Isabelle now as the Seelie Queen lounged back and watched them like a sleek, amused (over-using the word "amuse" might seem impressive at the time, but in the end has the opposite effect) cat.
Isabelle sounded exasperated. ‘Who cares, anyway? It’s just a kiss.”
“That’s right,” Jace said.
Clary looked up, then finally, and her wide green eyes (I think we get what color her eyes are) rested on him. He moved toward her, and as it always did, the rest of the world fell away until it was just them (a phrase rendered completely meaningless since the author utterly failed to ever prove it), as if they stood on a spotlighted stage in an empty auditorium. He put his hand on her shoulder, turning her to face him. She had stopped biting her lip, and her cheeks were flushed, her eyes a brilliant green (I said, I think we get what color her eyes are). He could feel the tension in his own body, the effort of holding back, of not pulling her against him and taking this once chance, however dangerous and stupid and unwise, and kissing her the way he had thought he would never, in his life, be able to kiss her again. (This sentence is stupid and unwise. Actually that's not just a sarcastic comment. I would take this 80% more seriously if the author could just keep her mouth shut instead of saying stuff like that.)
“It’s just a kiss,” he said, and heard the roughness in his own voice, and wondered if she heard it, too.
Not that it mattered—there was no way to hide it. It was too much. He had never wanted like this before. There had always been girls. He had asked himself, in the dead of night, staring at the blank walls of his room, what made Clary so different (*cough* Mary Sue *cough*). She was beautiful, but other girls were beautiful. She was smart, but there were other smart girls. She understood him, laughed when he laughed, saw through the defenses he put up to what was underneath. There was no Jace Wayland more real than the one he saw in her eyes when she looked at him. (Yup, you can really notice that always happening in the story... Not)
But still, maybe, he could find all that somewhere else. People fell in love, and lost, and moved on. He didn’t know why he couldn’t. He didn’t know why he didn’t even want to. All he knew was that whatever he had to owe to Hell or Heaven for this chance, he was going to make it count. (cheesy rambling is cheesy)
And then it goes into a trash making-out scene, but that makes fun of itself.
So how do you feel? Too harsh? Why or why not?
I welcome your comments. Long-winded theories about story-telling are appreciated.
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Comments: 47
RochelleKascade [2020-06-03 12:02:58 +0000 UTC]
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TrueStory15 [2019-01-22 07:31:08 +0000 UTC]
I respect your opinion but I loved the series and her other ones. I now can see it is flawed but I still value the books regardless of some of the issues. I was suprised to findout though that it was originally a fanfic, thanks for that fun fact. I hope you make more reviews in the future.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
MakingFunOfStuff In reply to TrueStory15 [2019-01-23 00:39:49 +0000 UTC]
Of course, it's okay to subjectively like something and still look at it objectively. I think those are two different things. I enjoy a lot of similar books too
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Sleepstar [2017-09-20 12:37:37 +0000 UTC]
Well said. I am getting fed up with the same plots and cliches in fiction. Where's the variety in Young Adult Fiction? Where are the characters that grow up during the story? Where's the "Stand Alones"?
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
animegirlcorycian [2017-02-17 04:22:57 +0000 UTC]
Wow, this is interesting. I've only watched the movie though, and I never thought that book series was once a Harry Potter fanfiction. This is good insight of pointing out the problems of regular fanfiction. I'm a fanfiction writer myself, but I was not aware if any of my writings or of others are either amazing or gross. Thank you for this wonderful analysis!
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FlowerfellFanatic [2017-01-01 08:05:47 +0000 UTC]
I've only seen the movie, and now I'm scared to read the books XD
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Quibbledink [2016-10-11 19:59:24 +0000 UTC]
Oh, wow... I never heard of this until now. Thank you for giving me a new addition to my Trash Stash. You need to review more stories more often, I found this very funny.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
SpectralPhoeniix [2016-10-08 19:55:10 +0000 UTC]
I absolutely love and agree with every single thing in this review.
Characters like Clary, Jace, and Sebastian drive me insane. Its as if they want to top off those characters and make them even more special.
All the other characters Im fine with, Valentine is even okay in my eyes.
Its just those little snowflakes and specialness that tempt me into smashing my face against the nearest wall. Its understandable to make a character important. Its not okay to make a character be so special to where theyre the center of the entire universe. Ahem, a Mary-Sue.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Girl-Time-2015 [2016-09-26 20:14:09 +0000 UTC]
Icy...icy......Icy Hot for aches and pains! Available at your local grocery store and pharmacy.
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Baefire [2016-06-18 20:35:02 +0000 UTC]
As a fan of this series, I have to admit that everything you've said here is true. I have two types books to read: intellectual reading and leisure reading. TMI definitely falls into the leisure category. I'm currently studying a joint-honours degree for English Literature and Creative Writing, and another thing that Clare does that I feel needs pointing out is the overuse of adverbs. I'll list all the ones in this passage now:
Slowly
Obviously
Firmly
Gently
Practically
Restlessly
Barely
Barely
Murderously
Barely AGAIN
Reluctantly
Viciously
Logically
Nastily
Vaguely
Deadly
Badly
Finally
I haven't included those included in dialogue, since people actually use adverbs in speech quite often in real life, but this many such a short part of the narrative is a bad sign. It's lazy writing. "He said firmly" is much less effective than "He insisted".
So, thanks for writing this. Seeing these mistakes pointed out really helps people improve their own work! ^^
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
modji-33 [2015-04-19 06:04:25 +0000 UTC]
Your (parentheses) reactions in this are hilarious!
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mmpratt99 [2015-04-08 22:20:06 +0000 UTC]
Are The Mortal Instruments where the cities such as London run on treads and take down smaller cities for fuel?
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nightshade43 [2015-02-03 04:47:59 +0000 UTC]
I couldn't even read all of it. I just. It's horrible.
I'm definitely guilty of some of these tropes, but I've read them from original works, written by people that don't even know what fanfiction is [seriously I started talking about fanfiction and mary sues to a famous editor and author, and NO ONE knew what those terms were. It's alarming].
My only tiny gripe was this phrase: (a classic fan-fiction cliche: making friends shorten each other's names as a cute way of being affectionate)
I know I've read the name-shortening from R.L.Stein, Stephen King and many famous authors, even one in the early 1900's, so I think fanfic writers find it in a book series they love and copy it. Like that whole "liquid fire" symbol shit that gets out of hand. I'm not stranger to symbols, metaphors and similes, but half of them don't make sense to the event, like "icy cold heart" when a little worried. If it involves the body it should match the physiological symptoms like someone grabbing their chest when sobbing hard because it sometimes pumps fast and presses on nerves.
I don't understand why authors don't match up realistic reactions that match the body. Using the vampire analogy is also old XD The closest I got was when a vampiric character I had was thirsty and got way, way too focused on blood. Granted it was a goat and it was more like a guy stumbling into a pool of water with a parched throat but yeah, too many blood analogies where it's not needed is a really good sign of a beginning writer.
I'm nowhere near being a skilled writer. I got potential, but I need to practice a hell of a lot more, and that's saying a lot considering I've been writing since I could read.
I think the problem with stories like this getting away with it is because people in the editing and publishing field don't have a lot of experience if any in the field of fanfiction, or just think it features two guys kissing. Many of the editors who let this slide probably like things like Twilight; pretty words but no substance, because they can picture it in their mind. The amount of sheer smut for female readers out there is ridiculous, yet for guys it's pictures. There was some sort of study involving how differently men and women read books, so that might have to do with how many books feature cliche "dark" romance or porn.
I find it all fascinating, hence the long ass posts I make XD
I loved your review. I thought [from what I read] it was spot on. The story itself bored me too much. I'll have to read it again when I can concentrate better.
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Laonasa [2015-01-27 04:32:21 +0000 UTC]
..? Is it just me, or do I remember the book being better? No offense, but I really like the series.
But I have to agree. the books are sort of.. angsty and cliche, a bit.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
k8eroseg [2015-01-13 23:27:14 +0000 UTC]
Okay so someone rewrote a scene from a book, from Jace's point of view. The dialogue is almost exactly like the books, though I do agree this person added a bunch of useless words and repeated themselves too much. But the ACTUAL books are good. But this thing (points to the fanfic) is NOT the original thing. Don't go insulting the series' author just because someone did a crappy fanfiction, okay?
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
MakingFunOfStuff In reply to k8eroseg [2015-01-14 20:41:24 +0000 UTC]
This was actually written by Cassandra Clare, it's not a fanfiction. I wouldn't do this to someone's personal fanfiction.
👍: 1 ⏩: 0
IceKattySummertime [2015-01-10 21:09:26 +0000 UTC]
Mortal Instruments is a good series! You just don't like the drama and romance, because you're more of an action or history kind of reader. The points you made are non-existent in my eyes, and personally I think it's mean that you make fun of things. Because that's gonna hurt some peoples feeling because they really like what your making fun of. Also Twilight and 50 Shades of Grey are good books/series as well.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
sweetchick141 [2014-10-10 00:02:38 +0000 UTC]
I really love these, and I hope that by reading more stuff like this, I can become more aware as an amateur writer. Also, they're really funny. Anyway, I was wondering if you could explain, in a bit more detail, how to show the audience and not just tell them. Is there a way you would rewrite this excerpt? Thanks
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
MakingFunOfStuff In reply to sweetchick141 [2014-10-18 20:58:11 +0000 UTC]
Thank you for the comment!
Hmm, that's a really good point.
Maybe I could write things like this that praise good books?
That's something I'll think about.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
sweetchick141 In reply to MakingFunOfStuff [2014-10-18 22:23:24 +0000 UTC]
I think its very useful for author's to hear the criticisms of books, that way they can learn what their audience is looking for in a story and also what they should avoid. What you are doing is great and funny at the same time, but you should also consider writing suggestions also thanks again
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azdesertlupine [2014-10-09 22:20:59 +0000 UTC]
I love the points you make in your critical analysis. The story does feel kind of cliche most of the time. Instead of actions, it is all about passive telling the readers what they are allowed to believe. I have a similar pet peeve much of the time when reading other people's stories. When I do beta work for other writers, I tend to harp on show not tell phrases so I totally understand your point with this fan fiction piece.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
PoesDaughter [2014-10-08 00:18:11 +0000 UTC]
I've never read this series and now I'm kind of afraid to. I tried Twilight and could scarcely make it through two chapters before I wanted to gut myself with a rusty spoon, and then I cried in mourning over the ten minutes of my life I could never get back. And as for 50 Shades of Grey, I flipped through it and landed on a page where things were getting steamy, and I remember that she compared the act of making love to a hamster gyrating in a hamster wheel. The moment I read that, I said, "I'm out, this is surely the most idiotic thing I've ever read in my life." Those metaphors were just so...weird and nonsensical. I've carried that memory with me ever since then and it reminds me to create metaphors that make sense to the situation. That particular metaphor was just unintentional hilarity made even funnier by the fact that it tries so hard to sound serious.
I dabble in fan-fiction myself, and I think I do well enough, but now I'm all self-conscious about it, worse than I normally am LOL
👍: 0 ⏩: 2
Laonasa In reply to PoesDaughter [2015-01-27 04:34:16 +0000 UTC]
It's not as .....weird as Twilight. Or biased... At least the vampires can't sparkle..
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PoesDaughter In reply to Laonasa [2015-01-27 04:59:14 +0000 UTC]
Well, thank God for that I actually give Stephenie Meyer props for the sparkling vampire bit, as stupid as it is. Vampires have essentially been the same thing over and over again since Bram Stoker's vision of Dracula, and it's gotten tedious. I give her brownie points for trying to make them new again. I just wish she was a better writer.
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Laonasa In reply to PoesDaughter [2015-01-31 06:01:34 +0000 UTC]
Yes... but sparkling... was a bit far.
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IceKattySummertime In reply to PoesDaughter [2015-01-10 21:10:28 +0000 UTC]
It's a wonderful series, and this points are not well thought out I think. I read the series and love it for one.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Alessaandra-the-Fair [2014-10-06 16:08:33 +0000 UTC]
The audience is lazy; popular things demand nothing from the audience, and this is part of the reason they become so popular. You can analyze the trends in the size of the audience for any kind of art for verification of this: film, music, poetry... whatever. There's a long history of best-selling authors whose work is transparently manipulative, overly dramatic and cliché, and they've sold millions and millions of books and had many of their works made into movies. I think of people like Dean Koontz, Sidney Sheldon, Danielle Steele, John Saul, Robin Cook and Robert Ludlum when I see writing like this. I think every sentence they write is bad, but I'm positive they don't lose any sleep over my believing their books are miserable, empty literary potato chips. There may be some kind of moral victory in producing "good" writing, but I'm sure it doesn't produce any tangible rewards, and I know it just leaves the people who look for craft in words feeling angry and resentful.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Samsa-Eunoia [2014-10-06 04:44:57 +0000 UTC]
My friends told me... to read it. It was really really GOOD AND OMG AMAZING... I bought em all... and... I regret those 20 dollars gone ( i bought used books at a garage sale.) I couldn't even get through the first damn 2 chapters. There was so much blah blah blah the story never got to anything vital without someone having cock block crisis through several paragraphs, or as you pointed out so beautifully, the author spotlighting Clary with googly green eyes, and... I'm glad I managed to earn 45 dollars selling them back to Half Price books (I sold a few other books with them.)
For New York Times Best Seller... it's a long fantasy winded soap in a series. The fact you mentioned its origins were fanfic... were interesting. Idk if I 100% believe it... but your evidence for your argument is good. I'll have to look into it myself. Don't like published fanfics much. Very few are good.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
JetScreamer In reply to Samsa-Eunoia [2014-10-08 13:09:42 +0000 UTC]
Yeesh!
I got all five as e-books because my friend swore up and down that they were amazing... now I can't return them
I hated it so much. It was too dramatic and Clary is so dumb
👍: 0 ⏩: 2
WishingUnderThatStar In reply to JetScreamer [2014-10-12 20:10:05 +0000 UTC]
If you got them from Amazon, you can return ebooks. If you bought it within 7 (I think?) days of purchase, you can do a simple return. If it was longer than that then you have to contact them and explain the situation.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Samsa-Eunoia In reply to JetScreamer [2014-10-08 15:54:41 +0000 UTC]
Aww yeah. I don't believe my friends when they say something is good. I'm too picky. XDDD I heard ebooks costed less than actualy print copies though.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
CynFinnegan [2014-10-06 03:29:10 +0000 UTC]
Then we have something in common. I couldn't get past the first chapter of City of Bones, and though my sister likes it, the movie is actually worse. By the way, according to Wikipedia, the whole "Jace and Clary are brother and sister" deal was a lie. Her REAL brother Jonathan appears in a later book, and is described as having pitch black eyes with no whites (because of the demon blood), a very sharp angled face, and almost white blond hair.
You should check out P.N. Elrod's Facebook page for more fanfic/bad writing cliches. They're a hoot.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
CynFinnegan In reply to CynFinnegan [2014-10-21 19:31:28 +0000 UTC]
Oh, yeah, I also write fan fiction, mostly mecha anime based ones, and while I am my own worst critic, I'm at least a marginally better writer than Cassandra Clare. I try to avoid cliches, have top-notch spelling and grammar skills, and know what a semicolon is and how to use it.
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AurumArrows [2014-10-06 02:05:32 +0000 UTC]
Ugh, I hate this series with a passion. It reads like fanfiction and it doesn't help that Cassandra Clare is notorious for plagiarizing. If you hadn't noticed already, there are some parallels with the Mortal Instruments and her Harry Potter fanfiction. Jace is basically a more asshole -ry version of Draco and he isn't even that hot (not Draco, Jace). That one part where Jace tells how he befriended a hawk (?), it was taken almost word for word out of a similar part in the fanfiction.
I don't understand why my friends like this piece of shit. I pretend that I like the series just for the sake of them and I even read all six books. But I suppose they're entitled to their opinions.
For me, I think the key to story telling are the characters. The author can put them through all kinds of stuff like their parents dying in a car crash, a friend is diagnosed with cancer, they have to travel to the deepest depths of hell to retrieve a special ring or whatever, etc. What the author has to do is to make the audience CARE for those characters. They, I, don't care if they went through hell, back, and up again. If you don't give us characters that we actually like, then the story is not worth the paper it was published on. The characters in the tMI are shallow and selfish. I hate them all with the exception of Simon.
I could go on and on about the flaws of this book but I think this is going to make it even longer than I intended.
I myself write fanfiction too and (not to sound arrogant), I could probably write better than Clare given time and practice. I'm afraid that my writing is too amateurish and I'm not going to publish a book anytime soon. I've been trying my hand at original stories and I think they're good...maybe.
Anyway, thank you for taking the time to write this. It was a very entertaining and funny read.
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TaranJHook [2014-10-06 00:17:15 +0000 UTC]
I've only heard of a book, and when I say that, I mean the title sounds 'kind of' familiar, I had no idea what it was actually about, let alone starting off as a Harry Potter fan fiction. From the points you noted, yes, it does sound very 'fan-fictiony'. I do believe fan fiction and spin off can be done well, but it's rare, and that's usually why it stands out.
What I noticed in the example you gave here, it seems to mock Steven Spielberg's style of directing. Basically he's leading the audience (readers), to feel a certain way; they HAVE to feel a certain way. This is the part where you fell sad, this is the part where you feel happy, this is the part where you're supposed to emphasize with this character, that kinda thing. It all seems very 'set up' for a reader that likes to make their own decisions about how they feel about a character or situation, this is suicide for the story and can be a huge turn off to more advanced readers. That's what makes stories like Harry Potter stick out, because there are some characters people like and some they don't like and they're never really FORCED to like a character. I'm talking more minor and side characters than main characters, typically the author wants the main characters to be as likeable as possible.
Speaking of which, one trap a LOT of early writers fall into is not finding a good balance for those main characters. They either make them so average and normal that they're dull and you wonder why you're even learning about their story anyway, while the other side of the spectrum is the 'Mary Sue' where the character can do no wrong, is perfect is 'special', but it's to the point where it almost comes across as bragging and is annoying to the reader. The author needs to find a balance between making a character realistically likeable while at the same time making their situation or story worth learning about to the reader. You don't want to be boring and you don't want to brag.
As much as I like the Peter Pan universe and enjoy seeing what other people come up with, I cannot read Hook/Wendy fics because they're literally EVERYWHERE. And it's all basically the same story; misunderstood, sad lonely villain who 'really isn't a bad guy', and the main female in the story. Wendy was a 12 year old girl and Hook is a whiny, selfish brat, end of story. I think there was only ONE Hook/Wendy fic I actually made it all the way through because the chick who wrote it actually wrote it well, I mean, really well. But for the most part, it's all the same thing over and over again. In my book I made sure to have Hook mention about how people ALWAYS use the same description about his eyes and how annoying it is.
On one hand, it's fanficion and everyone's gotta start somewhere, but it gets to a point where that's ALL there is online (and sadly printed books) and it seems like you're reading the same thing over and over again.
One thing I'll agree, but kind of disagree with you on is word choice. The one that caught my eye was when the sample mentioned the 'icy feeling in his chest' or something of that sort. Using words like 'fiery' and 'icy' are okay, if it fits, and it's not over done. Everyone talks about a fiery temper, or fiery eyes, or an icy feeling, they're cliche`, everyone uses them for the same thing. I think you can use those words if it's done in away that catches you attention ie, something different. When I do my descriptions, I got by how I think the word or sentence should feel, or try to use the words to create a vision or feeling. In one of my pieces I used the phrase 'a spinning melody' to describe a song being played on a harpsichord because just the word 'spinning' sounds like the high 'twings' of a harpsichord's sound, over a rounder, or more full-bodied sound of a piano. I use the sound of the word to paint a picture.
If I'm imagining something that's dark, and hollow, I would use 'cold' because just the sound of the word itself is low pitched, pronounced towards the back of the throat, you can almost feel it. 'Icy' I would probably use as something jagged, and sharp. A 'cold stare' could be something more empty/ emotionless, possibly even sad, where as an 'icy stare' would indicate something a little more threatening. But those tones have to be convayed clearly in the build, or the after or it can end up sounding cliche`.
The example was;
'As the Queen and Court laughed, the icy feeling in Jace’s chest intensified.
Okay, but what was so bad about the queen laughing? If she's an ice queen of some sort, then yes, it would be VERY cliche`, but if she's just some random person being a bitch, why would her laugh make this character feel 'icy' inside as opposed to 'clenching', or 'suffocating', or even 'sickening'? Clearly he's in a situation of peril (that's my guess anyway), so why does he feel a 'threatening' feeling than a 'stuck' feeling. When you're scared, your chest tightens up, so you want to use a word that convays that tightness. Fear doesn't have to 'run through their veins' fear can 'squeeze at your ribcage, sinking it's claws into your weakening heart, pulling your chest tight and holding your gasp inside, unable to exhale.' I don't know the context that this sentence is in, but there are some descriptions, especially if you want the pace to slow down a little, bit, you can make them as flowery as you want, just as long as you don't stay on that topic. Get your point across and move in. This person is so scared they feel like their heart stopped and they can't breathe. Now on to the next part of the scene.
I'm reading over some of these examples and just thinking how there's so many other ways to write these parts without sounding like an immature writer. Something else I just noticed here, that I also see a LOT in fan fiction is using words that sound too fancy for the situation. Like one was "forever is a awfully long time" No, real teenagers don't say that, they would say 'really long time', or 'real long time', but not 'awfully long time', it sounds dated. That's how adults talked 100 years ago, not how teenagers talk now.
One that comes up a lot as well (especially with Peter Pan stuff), is using 'save for' as a way to say 'except for'. It's an outdated phrase that NO ONE knows how to use. They're trying to copy that older style of writing from the early 1900's by peppering in a few phrases here and there, but for the most part, it's written in a more modern style of speaking, hence why it stands out so much; it doesn't sound right. There have been times I've read stories on dA and as soon as I saw them use 'save for' (especially if it was early in the story), I hit the back button and go read something else because I know that phrase is gonna get use over and over and OVER again through out that piece which will eventually lead me to pull my hair out because it's so annoying. I cringe when I read that phrase now and I make a point to avoid it as much as I can, even if I'm writing in an earlier style, there's so many other ways to say the same thing. As I tell people, 'use your words'. You don't have to describe the same thing exactly like everyone else.
Some younger authors, I can give them a break, they're still learning, but when things get put into the public eye for others to see (as in printed material), I expect it to sound like someone who knows how to properly tell a story, not someone who's struggling through 7th grade English.
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MakingFunOfStuff In reply to TaranJHook [2014-10-06 00:37:12 +0000 UTC]
Thank you for taking the time to read this and to type such a long comment.
I love what you're saying about Harry Potter.
I felt like that series really stood out to me too. J.K Rowling is a master at avoiding many traps that so many other authors fall into. There's so much stuff we take for granted about that series, I could go on and on (then again, maybe it's not really taken for granted. It IS recognized by many people as brilliant. I have tons of theories about why).
And yeah, I get what you're saying about those word choices too. Mostly it's just something I've noticed popping up in a bizarrely large number of fanfictions, usually when the author is trying too hard to be dramatic. In these situations that makes it over-used AND foolish sounding. But that definitely isn't automatically the case solely because they used those words.
As for younger authors, I agree as far as not picking on them for it. But if we can show them how to write better, why not? It doesn't really do any good to tell them that their writing is excellent when it isn't. (not that I think that's what you were saying though).
Yeah, it DOES feel like just reading the same thing over and over when I get out books these days. And I totally understand the characters with no personality thing. It's so hard to find a book that avoids falling into so many different kinds of traps. Harry Potter definitely comes to mind as a series that really pulls everything off surprisingly well. I have never found a book series quite like it.
Maybe I should write an essay about it....
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TaranJHook In reply to MakingFunOfStuff [2014-10-06 01:53:06 +0000 UTC]
Writing is kinda one of my things so when ever I see a discussion about it, I like to chime in. Hopefully what I say is useful, we'll see, haha.
You actually just hit the nail on the head with one of your descriptions, using words that are too fancy or don't fit the style make it seem over dramatic. I was trying to think of that and for some reason couldn't, but that's totally what I meant. It comes across as 'too much' and you think to yourself 'nobody actually talks like this?' When I write with a 3rd person narrator I tend to dive into descriptions a little more, because I can, but when ever I have a 1st person narrator I like to make the two voices clear; the character may talk one way while describing the scene, but his dialog may be a little different, such as using slang terms and what not. Regardless, the narration HAS to be clear and understood, if the character wants to be informal, that usually comes out in the dialog. Right now I'm working on 2 different pieces, one has a young, 20-something guy as the narrator while the other has an older, higher educated, narrator. Though they're both good at getting their points across and being clear about what's going on, if you were to read samples, it would be easy to figure out who was the young adult and who was the older scholar. One peeve I have is when a 1st person narrator knows too much. It's supposed to be a recount from the character's point of view, this may leave information out, or some of this information may not be accurate, this is called and 'unreliable narrator' and if done right, this can be very interesting for the reader because it opens up a lot of questions and things to wonder about. It can also cause a disagreement between the reader and the narrator; the narrator may think another character is trust worthy but the reader may be getting a feeling that isn't true and that character shouldn't be trusted. Then it turns into a guessing game of who is right, you or the narrator about this character's intentions. For beginner writers it can be a hard trick to pull off at first, but if done right it can make for a really fascinating read.
What I meant about 'young' or 'immature' authors is, yeah it's okay for them to make mistakes and it never hurts for a more senior writer to offer tips for this new writer to improve. What gets me is the people who 'claim' to be good, or market themselves as a senior author but when you read their stuff, their writing never grows. They're making the same mistakes, following the same pattern, using the same cliche`s over and over again. Like they never learned from their earlier stuff and so they never progressed. That was my fault for not elaborating on that more. So you'll have new authors writing in a particular way, go out and read other stuff that sounds very immature (writing-wise) and the new writer thinks, 'well they did what I did, so that must be okay'. I guess a way to say it would be they're following bad examples. They're not reading things that are more advanced, skill-wise, and so they're skills as a writer never develop, they stay in those beginner stages. It sounds like we're agreeing on the same thing here, I just only half-explained it the first time, haha.
I had an example of this; a few years ago I had posted a fan fiction on here that I did not, under any circumstances give a crap about. It was bad, I knew it was bad, so I rolled with it anyway because it was fun and gave me something to do. I got an unbelievable response from the community from people saying they loved it! It was one of the most popular Peter Pan fics at the time on dA and I had no idea why. It was all comments like 'this is great!' 'write more' ' this is funny!' but never anything specific. Nothing was pointed out, no questions were asked, feedback that I as a writer NEEDED, wasn't there. I had since cleaned up the story, made it more to my liking and now I don't have as many comments on those pieces, but the feedback I do get is a lot more intellectual. People are actually asking serious questions about things, which shows they're thinking about it and are interested in the outcome. I use that kind of feedback when I do my edits. I, as the author know exactly what I'm talking about, but if I have a bunch of people all asking about a specific thing, then I'll go back and make sure that was properly explained or described so that we're all seeing the same picture. It kinda scared me, because it seemed like more people liked the bullshit version I didn't care about over than the serious version that I actually spent a lot of time tweaking and editing. Why do people like the dumbed down version over the version that will actually get them thinking, and thinking in a way they may not have thought before? But then again, looking at the majority of people's attention spans, they want the quick and entertaining, not the detailed and thought provoking.
There have been a few times I've read something by a younger author and gave them little tips on cleaning up their current piece, or advise they could use in the future, and thankfully, a lot of them are totally open for the help and appreciate the advice, which means they're more willing to improve and grow their skill. The ones I worry about are the ones that get upset, and think right off the bat that their writing is perfect and there's no need to change or improve. Even I'm not perfect, I've never claimed to be, but I know I have spots in my writing where I could improve. Everyone always has room to grow in this field, the more you write, the more your style develops, you learn what you like and dislike about your writing and each time you work on improving and fixing the things you didn't like before.
A while back, I had thought about doing an essay myself on writing tips, both fan fiction and original pieces as an aid for people looking to start or improve their skills. I forgot about it for a while, but now talking about this, the thought came up again and now I'm legitimately thinking about it.
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DivineEqualizer [2014-10-06 00:11:18 +0000 UTC]
*raises hand slowly* I'm not a fan of this series, Twilight or 50 Shades of Grey but I write fanfiction...
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MakingFunOfStuff In reply to DivineEqualizer [2014-10-06 00:14:34 +0000 UTC]
I'm using the word fanfiction to represent immature writing. Fanfiction is not bad in itself. Sorry if it sounded like I was saying that.
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DivineEqualizer In reply to MakingFunOfStuff [2014-10-06 00:19:01 +0000 UTC]
I see. And how do you tell bad fanfiction from decent/good fanfiction? Like, what do you personally look for? I always thought that writing, being a form of art, is deemed good or bad depending on the person reading it.
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MakingFunOfStuff In reply to DivineEqualizer [2014-10-06 00:51:08 +0000 UTC]
I'm talking about the quality.
Look at it this way:
Is Dick and Jane of comparable quality to Lord of the Rings?
Regardless of whether or not we personally like the first one better, there are things that must be admitted are superior about LOTR (character development, prose, backstory, etc, etc, etc.)
I really don't think we should say story-telling is not worth analyzing just because everyone has different opinions on the individual stories they read.
Opinions are our reception of something. However, objects do not merely receive, but merit our approval/disproval/contempt, etc.
For example, if I enjoyed murdering people, I should recognize this as a defect in myself and the way the world really is regardless of how I feel about it.
Or if say, I thought 50 Shades of Grey was better quality literature than Shakespeare...
Do you see what I'm saying? xP We might enjoy different things, but it's okay to break them down and talk about what makes them good or bad in themselves despite how we might (personally) feel.
Hopefully the better something actually is in itself, the more it will be recognized as such. That's why I would say Harry Potter has more fans than a sloppily written book series, for example.
As for what makes something good quality, I would say there are lots of things to think about. I guess you could read some of my deviations if you want to see my theories. I have a lot. xP (Sorry for such a long comment, by the way).
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DivineEqualizer In reply to MakingFunOfStuff [2014-10-06 01:33:21 +0000 UTC]
Note: I'm not even mad, bro; and I agree that making fun of something whether you like it or not is one of the best things ever. Just getting that out of the way.
I am talking about quality as well. Quality is something that depends on the person, is it not? Like I personally think Mortal Instruments was over-rated, sloppy and way too long for its own good but I have friends who think it's beautiful. I'm the same way with Anne Rice. She's widely considered one of the best Gothic novelists, is she not? But I find her work to be nothing more than a pseudo-Gothic 50 Shades of Gray. (But if I bash her too much, I'll get flamed. Again.)
Harry Potter was written by an author who possessed much more skill. This is truth. The source material has to be good for a movie crew to make even a decent movie out of it, I think.
I think a lot of my confusion is stemming from you generalizing all the fanfiction writers as 'immature' when a lot the their writing style is similar to those authors they idolize. So I'm wondering, really, what you personally look for when you're either reading a book or looking for one.
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MakingFunOfStuff In reply to DivineEqualizer [2014-10-06 02:20:40 +0000 UTC]
I didn't think you were mad, and I'm not either.
I like talking about this stuff. XP
Tell me to shut up if I talk too much.
Well, I would think that someone has to be wrong. Either something is good quality or it isn't. It's certainly something that has to be discussed separately for each individual book. And I'm sure there are a lot of factors for each story too. That's why it's so interesting.
The same goes for fanfiction. I wasn't generalizing, I was using it as a convenient way to get my message across, since the majority is associated with beginners and therefore viewed as inferior by many people.
That's not to say I really believe all fanfiction is automatically bad quality. Do you think I should have clarified that better?
(Though I have truly witnessed all the things noted in the above deviation in the majority of fanfictions that I have personally read.)
Well, when I'm reading a book I look for a story that takes something interesting and presents it in an appealing, credible, meaningful way.
I think those are the basic things everyone looks for, but can mean something different to each person. For example, appealing to someone might be a book that's more humorous, and to another person it might mean more serious, I guess?
I say credible, because it has to live up to whatever it sets itself up to be. If it's supposed to be believable, but suddenly throws in something really corny and the author gives the excuse, "well it's just a story!" only for that particular thing, that's not cool. (Usually that's why I have a problem with such corny romance in YA Fantasy. Oh, so there's suddenly an element we're supposed to vouch for that doesn't match the otherwise decently believable tone of the story? Ugh.) It's about knowing what kind of story you're telling and delivering. If it's a short comic book that's point was never to be believable, standards are naturally lowered and that's fine.
I say meaningful, because finally, I'd like it to mean something to me.
This is usually accomplished most easily by having a sincere foundation based on real truths. For example, if it's going to have moral lessons, the author should make sure to sincerely find something worth while, not just spew romanticized dishwater. For all that, there might even just be something really obscure that means something weird to me personally. So in that respect it can be different for everyone.
So that's what I typically hope for when I'm looking for a book at the library, I suppose. xP
Mostly I get hung up on the credibility factor when I'm ranting on books. There's lots of stuff out there that tries to get away with insulting your intelligence, I think. Like bad romance for instance.
Again sorry for such a long comment, I hope that helps to shed some light on where I'm coming from.
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DivineEqualizer In reply to MakingFunOfStuff [2014-10-06 03:26:33 +0000 UTC]
That's good.
I think the only book in existence that the universe has as a whole decided was terrible has already been published. Give me some time and I shall track it down. All others... well, I think those are in the category of "not black or white but depends on the reader to decide". Oh, wait. I take that back. Some of the books I've read that were published back in the 80s or the 70s were terrible.
You might want to clarify your stance on fanfiction a little better. Beginner fanfiction is subpar but it's to be expected since they're just starting. Developing writing skills takes time and since I'm not in school anymore and I write fanfiction, I have to submit my stuff on here and hope I get some help with it. But it's clarified for me.
I am with you as far as romance in the YA book section. It's either too shallow or too distracting from everything. It's the sort of romance I would expect from the actual books published into the Romance genre; not from books meant to inspire the next generation yet that's what it is. I don't mind romance but I don't want it to be lovey-dovey, forget the plot and character development romance. If that makes any sense? But romance is a tricky thing to write, you know? If characters are like people, those characters will all experience love and romance in different ways. The only few series I can't stomach that romance is Twilight, and 50 Shades. I didn't make it through Mortal Instruments to judge that.
As a huge fantasy fan, I look for new ideas or interesting takes on previous things. Sadly, I've had a few experiences where I've wasted money and bought terrible books but I've also found some awesome ones.
I'm thinking if you're looking for something that doesn't focus on romance like it's the only thing, try the "Falling Kingdoms" series by Morgan Rhodes. It's more action and politics to me and I find it way enjoyable. It's like "Game of Thrones" without all the sex. If that doesn't work, ditch YA forever. I'm nearing that point myself.
I love long comments and it's nice being able to talk about books. I don't get to do that very much.
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