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msfeistus In reply to tranimation-art [2005-07-30 03:38:59 +0000 UTC]

*laughs* Oh, come on, if Selina can live through it so can Max. He's a blast to write for. XD

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tranimation-art In reply to msfeistus [2005-07-30 04:21:48 +0000 UTC]

But he was all fried! Crispy! Charcoal! Wih Selina, there was no fried, burnt up body found...no, at the end, there she is - so cocky! But Maximilian, poor man, there's a body for the police to find. But with all the miracles of cloning, sure, anything's possible. Of course, I'm sure Chip can be just as nasty if you get him going. Though, from what information is in the film, I pictured Maxie's wife was overmore cunning and devious. "Women! Nothing surprises me, Chip, 'cept your late mother." Really? With that massive brain and knowledge of the criminal underworld and inner demons, how could your wife surprise you all those times? No really?!

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msfeistus In reply to tranimation-art [2005-07-30 05:40:54 +0000 UTC]

Heh. See, I pointedly ignore that shot, because it was just so cheesily done. Worse than that guy Joker fried in the first movie.

Which makes you wonder if it's a fake, now that I think about it.

Ah yes, Mrs. Shreck. I've got so many theories about her.... my favorite is the thought that what surprised her was how/when/why she ended up being 'late'.... you know?

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tranimation-art In reply to msfeistus [2005-07-30 08:41:39 +0000 UTC]

Did the Joker fry? No, he did a Moriarty, fell off a very tall building. No thanks to a very heavy man in a chunky latex suit. But that could be faked! Or at least there's enough ominous foreshadowing for him to return. That little laughing bag certainly makes it possibly that the jokes on them, heehee! But Max, well, true, it's not a fitting ending to him but as cheesy as it is - there is a body, much to my dismay. That was SOME kiss, uh? *takes out a permanent marker and marks out lines* Bah, let's just re-write the darn ending.

You know what, he was CUUUTEE when wet.

Personally, I would love to see Ol' Oswald and Joker to partner up. Or one could revamp the '60s movie team up - Joker, Pengie, Riddles, Selina...and Harley, just BECAUSE.

I have so many theories, too! And I can't stick to ONE theory about her being "late." But I can tell my theories of her personal profile (if you're interested):

When, well, from the movie, I suspect fairly recently give six years to the max. Chip loves his daddy and I seriously gave any suspicion that his father had anything to do with it (as far as Chip knows; then again he's not stranger to his dad's murderous tendencies). Plus, Chip seems to feel obliged to "cheer up" dad, so I assume that fairly recent. Also, Max has been working on his power plant scheme for some time, a legacy for Chip, in a way, it's a "monument" to Maxie's morality. He knows he's not going to live forever, nor is he going to try to, which was most likely fueled by a "death" in close quarters that added a type of reality to his own, so had this scheme for Chip's welfare after he passed away. This power plant scheme developed over months at a time, again, makes be believe the wife died recently some six to maybe seven maybe ten (at the most) years ago - enough time for Chip to get over it, but Max - eh, not quite yet...

Chip is not a carbon copy of his father, instead physically, resembles is mother a great deal - lush auburn hair, stunning blue eyes, tall (or fairly taller than Max at least), good looks, natural athlete - like Chip. Yet, I look at Chip and I see him as a sexist pig; arrogant, but a young man with money, power, looks, a future, and not enough time for anything else other than his father. However, he can be self-sacrificing sort and is protective of his family, or at least his daddy. (See
So, in contrast, I believe his wife was very educated top-notch, very successful, and very, very rich... She was a heiress of some industry baron who had some political influence. This is constructed on "society" logic. If Max is a self-made man, sure he's "New Money" but not wholeheartedly social excepted into the elitist in Gotham. Also, Max isn't a type of man that would "fall in love" to me. I mean, he doesn't seem to be a "fall in love" romantic category, but he does seem to be that type of guy that would send you roses out of etiquette for his hardworking secretaries...then chop off the blooms if finds you slacking off. Plus, Max would be not saddled with marriage unless it meant gaining more money and more power, thousands of more factories, more industries, shipping docks, addition of political power, Max would OWN Gotham. The perfect plan, one snag: How to get her?!

I don't know, but Max must a laid it down thick. Christopher Walken is a looker... (Don't roll your eyes at me, no really, he is.) The suits, the hair, the eyes... And Max could lay the romance down excessively, like when he "seduced" Selina before pushing her out the window. Wow... Max knows people. He knows what to say to get them to do what he wants, so I seriously doubt any type of lovemaking was foreign to him. I can't say if Max really did "love" his wife, but he certainly had some type of mutual attraction to her. When he speaks about her in film, there's such longing in his tone. If Max was belligerent, menacing, cold-blooded, monomaniacal in the film, his wife must have been the devil incarnate! How do you "surprise" Max Shreck until the day you died? I don't know. But I believe she was just ruthless, highly intelligent, evvvilll, and so subtle and manipulative. They both must have had sense of humour that matched very well together. But did she know what he was after? I'm sure she did. Did she care? Apparently not because she DID marry him anyways. The elites did eventually welcome Max to their circles at the highest spots - special thanks to his marriage, family connections, and wifely influence.

Out pops a kid named Chip? (As far as we know, it was ONE kid). Chip, a nickman I always thought for chip-off the-old-block, like his dad. And Max is extremely loving and devoted him, his only true unselfish act in the film is to save Chip. So we forgive him for being a cool dad.

Anyway, more theories another time...I took fever medication and I'm going to pass out! Love to hear a response. I apologise for my being incoherent, it's the mediction it's suppose make me dizzy, drowsy-- *reads the warning label again* --and not to handle heavy machinary.

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msfeistus In reply to tranimation-art [2005-07-30 16:36:47 +0000 UTC]

Wow. Longest DA comment I ever got. *laughs* And no, I wasn't talking about Joker. I was talking about Antoine. I couldn't remember his name at the time. "Antoine got a little hot under the collar".

As for Mrs. S, I'd say she had to have actually passed on when Chip was younger, for some reason. Something about Walken's delivery of the line. My personal theory points toward suicide, for some reason - them having a genuine relationship, and then it getting overshadowed gradually by Max's obsession with controlling Gotham by the strings, and her keeping it down until she couldn't take it anymore.

I do, however, agree with your ideas on Max's background (and apparently Walken's too - squeal!): that he wasn't born with a silver spoon, that he had to claw his way up. He's got that plucky street-smart thing going. And it's in the way he speaks, too. He sounds professional, but every now and then you get a phrase or a word in the vernacular that sticks out like a sore thumb. It's just so endearing. And that's how you learn to read people, too - from having to fight through a life like that, to scrap for yourself.

As for Chip? Definately a Daddy's Boy. Which is why I want to say that Mrs. S (I'm calling her Vivienne for some reason, it seems to fit) died when Chip was young. That'd make him much more likely to cling to Max, because he'd be all the kid had left. And Chip would be what Max had left (especially if you take my theory about poor Viv into it). In a way, the two of them remind me a lot of Norman and Harry Osborn from the Spider-Man movies. Only without the mind-altering serum.

And Selina? Don't tell me there wasn't UST between those two. *grins* Honestly, if things hadn't gone the way they did, I bet he and Selina might've honest-to-goodness ended up having some form of affair. But, ha - no chance of that now, not even if hell froze over.

Closing note: I never said I'd roll my eyes at you over Max being a looker. *whistles* Then again, I always fall for the evil ones (just ask my girlfriend XD).

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tranimation-art In reply to msfeistus [2005-07-30 19:38:47 +0000 UTC]

Antoine rocked though! I love how he fried! I thought it was just AWESOME! It's one of my favourite scenes in the first Batman film. It was too funny. I love the Joker's sense of humour. I suppose can appreciate it better than Batsy. '80s special effects, but what can you do? Overall, I loved it.

No, no, I completely believed they had a genuine relationship between Max and his wife. You know how strange it is that you said "Vivienne" because I was thinking of the name "Vivien" the Enchantress who bewitched the wizard Merlin and imprisoned him; some poets portray Vivien as evil who sent Merlin to his death and stole his secrets, to others she is a white witch whom Merlin genuinely loved. (Some paintings have her hair as auburn or fiery red.) However, there were "perks" that had to be considered for the sake of business and all. It was mainly a corporate merger, but there was mutual affection and attraction that later matured into something I suppose is very close to "love" if such a thing exists in two terrible evil persons - and it very much could, it's not impossible. Obviously, with the closeness of Chip and Max in film, Max and his wife were rulers of the Gotham elite; they were the "perfect" couple, in appearance.

**waves her Batman Returns: The Official Movie Book** Woo-hoo! I bought this baby because it had information on Max Shreck that I couldn't really find anywhere else and I'm very pleased with it. I have the one from the first Batman film as well, I had the Batman Forever SOMEWHERE, I misplaced some years ago, which is weird. We should raid a BatCon together! You'll love it! Anyway, his voice does give him away. When he says "expensive bottles" and "mild swelling," it's completely obvious. Also, a true "gentleman" takes off this gloves indoors, Max certainly doesn't to this, which often made me curious of why. No fingerprints? No clues? No connection? Or is he just anal-retentive? There are several factors to support that Max could be anal-retentive: He has "control" issues, nit-picks about his personal cleanliness, form, style, etiquette; he is overtly stubborn; he has concerns with punctuality, tendencies toward withholding; he can be uptight and distressed over ordinarily minor problems, then kills them simply to hush them up or to get them out of the way. I laugh every time I see that painting of Chip and Max in his conference room; he wears gloves in it! The only time he isn't was the Maxquerade Ball. Max is "everyman". I have a suspicion that he's a German emigrant, whose original name was Schreck (very Germanic), who had perhaps $5 in his pocket when he got to America and scrabbled it to billions in cash.

I thinks his wife, not only got him to the elitist group, but "trained" him, trimmed edges but didn't cut them because they were too cute and it, of course, set him apart from the rest of his contemporaries. I was playing with the idea, long time ago, that she blackmailed Max to marry her, and he, in turn, profit a great deal from her heiress estate. It seems a little odd, but possible since he was blackmailed to work in league with the Penguin. And why did he kill Fred Aktins, his old business partner?

She passing "on when Chip was younger"...uh, I like that. It makes more else. I agreed to that, however I always figured, for some odd reason, that it was cancer. Seeing her deteriorate must have hit Maxie very hard. If Chip was younger, yeah, he wouldn't have understood the situation, plus gives reason why he's so close to his father, because he raised him during a good chuck of his later life.

No, no, no, not you. You love Willem Dafoe, I know you wouldn't roll your eyes at me but everyone else will. They always do. They tell me I have strange taste, don't why they say that, but they do. Yeah, the evil ones always get my vote. Chris is hot. I've followed his career as long as I can remember. I think it was Deer Hunter but started because of Dead Zone. As a fansite labelled him as "tall and hung", enough said!

Selina and Max? Nah! I do think Max had his extramartial affairs, about two or three, with that much power how could you not? I don't believe it was ever to the point that it would ruin his marriage, let alone mess up his professionalism - that's just not Max. Just a liason with candlelit dinner, a toss, and get back home with the wife and kiddies, that's it. However, do I think his wife had affairs? Oh YES, much more than Max probably realised at first, with possibly connection to Max's old business partner (dun dun DUN!), but again, not to the point that it interferred with Max, Chip, business, and home. For the most part, Max and his wife wisely remained together for better or for worse. Though I'm curious, is Max ones of those jealous husbands?

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msfeistus In reply to ShamelessDoodler [2005-07-06 03:42:23 +0000 UTC]

Thanks. I figured out why I thought it'd come out crappy while I was drawing it. He has girly lips. And it doesn't look right on him till his whole face is done. ;D

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msfeistus In reply to Kooshmeister [2005-07-04 03:44:43 +0000 UTC]

Aw! Thanks - and thanks for the fav, too. Pfeifer and Keaton's chemistry rocked, too, but DeVito's Penguin? LORD. As much as I love DeVito, the writers totally butchered Oswald. And I'm sure Danny could've done a great job with a sophisticated Cobblepot, too!!! *pouts*

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msfeistus In reply to Cricketjuice [2005-07-04 03:45:13 +0000 UTC]

*grins* Thanks. I think I just might.

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