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MsTaz511 — The Stormcloaks
Published: 2014-10-12 04:27:05 +0000 UTC; Views: 5898; Favourites: 63; Downloads: 0
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Galmar Stone-FistFreyja Free-Winter (me)
Ulfric Stormcloak
Erich Skarsgard (me)
Lexa Silvereye (belongs to
Jorund Shadefur (belongs to
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Comments: 32
"Skyrim belngs to the nords... except to those that support the empire"
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So skyrim belongs to the weak reman empire that abandoned talos? The founder himself? Nah. Perhaps if the empire was smart during the great war and won then i would've said yes. I Only liked the empire "back in the day" in morrowind and oblivion.
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*that abandoned talos?*
Alright, if you say that you need some more Lore: en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Grea…
"In 4E 174, the Thalmor leadership committed all available forces to the campaign in Cyrodiil, gambling on a decisive victory to end the war once and for all [...] In the end, the main Aldmeri army in Cyrodiil was completely destroyed. The Emperor's decision to withdraw from the Imperial City in 4E 174 was bloodily vindicated." so while the Dominion used all their available forces to attack the capital, not all of these forces were in the Imperial City when the Battle of the Red Ring happened, because the book says that the MAIN Aldmeri army in Cyrodiil (again: in Cyrodiil) was destroyed, wich means that the Dominion still had soldiers in Cyrodiil and maybe more powerful forces in Dominion controlled lands.
"Meanwhile, however, the capital fell to the invaders and the infamous Sack of the Imperial City began. The Imperial Palace was burned, the White-Gold Tower itself looted, and all manner of atrocities carried out by the vengeful elves on the innocent populace [...] Although victorious, the Imperial armies were in no shape to continue the war. The entire remaining Imperial force was gathered in Cyrodiil, exhausted and decimated by the Battle of the Red Ring. Not a single legion had more than half its soldiers fit for duty. Two legions had been effectively annihilated, not counting the loss of the Eighth during the retreat from the Imperial City the previous year." The Dominion used all their available forces at the time to take the capital, what meant a campaign that was too powerful for the forces in the Imperial City to handle on a short period of time. One year later (after part of such forces were not in the capital), the Emperor counter attacked and re took the city, but after such battle the imperial soldiers were in no shape to continue to fight because the capital was sacked (wich means far more resources for the Dominion, that as I explained still had forces in Cyrodiil) and half of the remaining soldiers were not fit for duty (wich would not be a big problem IF they still had a great amount of resources to count on).
In short: the imperials had no choice but to sign the Concordact (that is: unless you consider killing yourself on a war you can no longer win, just to look tough when in fact you are being stupid, and give your lands to the Dominion's armed forces almost by free), so saying that they abaldoned Talos is an absurd.
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Dear Imperial milkdrinker, Why cater to take a jab at the Stormcloaks who only wanted to free skyrim and the civilians from the hands of those petty elves?
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Thanks to their means. The Civil War Ulfric started is only helping a single faction: the Thalmor. The conflict is making Skyrim weaker each year, and thus the Empire is weaker each year. In fact, Alvor reveals that the Thalmor were not even in Skyrim before Ulfric's uprising, as he reveals that people barely paid attention to the treaty before Ulfric started to agitate about it (en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Alvor "It's from that treaty that ended the Great War, remember, when the Emperor was forced by the Thalmor to outlaw Talos worship. We didn't pay much attention to it when I was a boy - everyone still had their little shrine to Talos. But then Ulfric and his "Sons of Skyrim" started agitating about it, and sure enough the Emperor had to crack down. Dragging people off in the middle of the night... one of the main causes of this war, if you ask me.")
In short: the Thalmor are only in Skyrim because Ulfric's Uprising revealed that Skyrim had far more Talos worshippers than anywhere else in the Empire.
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Well basically, The empire is a snitch, I'm pretty sure the blades and also likely The Knights of the nine disbanded thanks to The imperials Opening the doorway for the Thalmors. Which is the reason why the rebellion was formed and is right about the talos worship. The empire did have a choice, They have many ranks and types of soldiers, Can't seem to imagine why The Empire was cornered that easily. Maybe its because the Thalmors have plot-armor or it's because all of those soldiers i mentioned died like little cannon-fodders.
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This rebellion was formed because Ulfric got a completely wrong image. The empire does not enforce the ban of Talos worship, as Alvor reveals that it was barely an issue when he was a boy and the imperials tried to hide Ulfric from the Thalmor after he retook Markarth. Well, the Empire does open the doors to the Thalmor (only when the Thalmor want to go by themselves), but because there is no other option: while it was not part of the Concordact, preventing the Thalmor from going to Skyrim would easily cause another war while the Empire was not ready.
And no: the Empire did not have a choice as it is revealed in the official book about The Great War (www.imperial-library.info/cont… ) "Although victorious, the Imperial armies were in no shape to continue the war. The entire remaining Imperial force was gathered in Cyrodiil, exhausted and decimated by the Battle of the Red Ring. Not a single legion had more than half its soldiers fit for duty. Two legions had been effectively annihilated, not counting the loss of the Eighth during the retreat from the Imperial City the previous year" all of this while the Aldmeri Dominion had tons of resources after the sack of the capital.
"But the Dominion did not have armies left" you may say... and they actually did. In the book, altough it is stated that "In 4E 174, the Thalmor leadership committed all available forces to the campaign in Cyrodiil, gambling on a decisive victory to end the war once and for all", it also reveals that "In the end, the main Aldmeri army in Cyrodiil was completely destroyed" after the Battle of the Red Ring. Read that again: MAIN army IN CYRODIIL. This means that the Dominion did have armies left in the imperial province. So the Thalmor could have easily defeated the Empire back there.
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That seems rather contradictory given that Hammerfell deflated the dominion with help from no one. Plus the same author said that the Dominion’s army was defeated. I mean if they actually had the resources for the war why did the Thalmor push for a ceasefire?
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Regarding Hammerfell, that is a common misconception. The redguards of Hammerfell fought an initially weakened aldmeri force, and it was weakened mainly thanks to the legionnaires left by General Decianus. And the redguards fought this initially weakened force to a standstill for 5 years, a conflict that was ended by both sides signing a peace treaty, the Second Treaty of Stros M'kai. This is far from defeating the Dominion by itself, and a completely different context than the legions after the Battle of the Red Ring found themselves in. Also always have in mind that the Second Treaty of Stros M'kai was signed after the conflict left southern Hammerfell devastated, in other words it ended when the regions ceded to the Dominion were pretty much useless thanks to the destruction caused by the 5 year long Redguard-Dominion conflict.
And the author says that the main aldmeri army in Cyrodiil was defeated, not that the entire aldmeri army was defeated. This means that there were other aldmeri armies in Cyrodiil while the legion was in no shape to fight. I actually explained this on the third and last paragraph of the comment you replied to (not wanting to bash you here, just wanna be clear):
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Don’t worry I’m just trying to get some clarification. Thank you for replying. Comments just tend to get long for me sometimes. So I can miss a detail or two despite looking for them.
So I have two questions.
1. How many armies does the Dominion have?
2. Narratively speaking what would think an elder scrolls game without an Empire?
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No problem friend. Regarding your questions:
1- No in game source says exactly how many armies the Dominion had, be it in total or just the ones in Cyrodiil.
2- An Elder Scrolls game without the Empire would likely be in the middle of an Interregnum. Interregnums in The Elder Scrolls are periods of wars and lawlesness after the last individual who could have been the Emperor dies. You see, an Interregnum happened when the akaviri potentate Versidue-Shaie (who had previously assassinated the last emperor of the Renan Dynasty) was assassinated by the Morag Tong. With no clear successor, the Empire was split between leaders who claimed the throne and Tamriel was thrown into chaos. In fact, The Elder Scrolls Online is set during this Interregnum, and it was brought to an end when Tiber Septim united tamriel and crowned himself Emperor, thus begining the Septim Dynasty. Another Interregnum, the Stormcrown Interregnum, happened in the beginning of the Fourth Era when Potentate Ocato, who became the leader of the Empire after Martin Septim’s sacrifice, was assassinated by the Thalmor (what is exlained in detail in the last volume of Rising Threat: www.imperial-library.info/cont… ). Seven years of conflict between leaders who tries to claim the throne were ended when a colovian war lord named Titus Mede conquered the Imperial City and was crowned Emperor (and he was also supported by Skyrim), thus beginning the Mede Dynasty that may or may not end with the death of Titus Mede II, as we don’t know if he has a heir. As you could see, the fall of the Empire has led to interregnums, and if this happened after 4th Era 201 (the year The Elder Scrolls V takes place) I imagine some areas would be easily conquered by the Dominion while other could manage to resist. I hope this does not happen.
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I think I wasn't clear on the check deposit question. I meant from a gamer perspective. Do you think it would be a fun game? Personally I think could be fun game.
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From that perspective: yes, it could be a fun game.
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Apart from that, what do you think of my explanation of the interregnums?
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It was a little long. I don't think you needed to use to two examples either. Just one would have probably worked better.
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I wanted to give as much info as possibel so yeah.
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Well then they are weak. Glad To See Hammerfell Resistance and the Stormcloak Rebellion kicking in the thalmor's teeths.
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So the imperial legions are weak for wanting to gather strength and resources instead of just killing themselves to look tough? One is not weak by doing something when there is no other choice.
And to be fair none of these resistances has been that effective. Hammerfell fought a single weakned Aldmeri Army to a standstill for five years (an army that by the way was pushed across the Alik’r by imperial “invalids”) and did not manage to destroy it. In the case of the Stormcloaks: Hadvar reveals (if he survives obviously) that Ulfric only really got the Empire’s attention after Torygg’s death, wich means that Cyrodiil barely cared about Skyrim’s Civil War for many years (after all the Legates have been recruting locally). This means that the Stormcloaks did not manage to defeat locally recruited legionnaires for many years. However Hadvar also states that Tullius has turned things around for the Empire in the few months he has been in charge.
In other words: Ulfric fights imperial supporters on Skyrim for years and barely has any success. Ulfric manages to really get the Empire’s attention for killing Torygg and he is captured by General Tullius in a few months.
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If by Gathering strength you mean by taking a long while as the thalmors are keeping an eye on their every move? Of course they are indeed weak, Only in vanilla. However:
Since the other guy mentioned about stormcloaks having giants (Which is indeed true), Here are these:
8 - recruit a giant 10 - recruit a warrior ally 11 - recruit orc ally (Note that these were taken from the creation kit of the hidden civil war files)
With that being said, The stormcloaks have more of a better and faster chance of defeating the thalmors if they decided to invade skyrim.
And as for the imperials, They could recruit those as well and "keep it a secret" and then take the thalmors by surprise instead of taking their long precious little time.
Since you're using game magazine's info, It should be fair for me to use the cut-content as they are better understanding in terms of story and Tobjorn Shatter-shield did indeed mention an unused character in vanilla, So that means the Windehelm pit arena does exist. Just "Off-screen" of the game. And Ulfric did have this nice chat by saying "It's working, Galmar. Our patience has won us friends and allies. And our armies are systematically taking care of the rest."
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To gather strenth the Empire must avoid direct conflict with the Dominion. Also the Thalmor are not allowed to keep an eye on every move of the Empire (and if they do, they use spies... something that they would use with or without peace). The Thalmor walking around Skyrim was not originally part of the White Gold Concordact to begin with (if Hadvar survives Alvor will reveal that people barely took attention to it when he was a boy, then Ulfric and his Uprising fucked the whole thing).
The Stormcloak giants were cut from the game. The files may still be in the game, but as you said they are hidden. It is not in the lore.
The Stormcloaks could be better in fighting the Thalmor if they had the support of giants (or may be not, depending on the AMMOUNT of giants that would join the Stormcloaks), that is if the Thalmor were not experts in magic. Giants would not be a big deal for an expert Thalmor mage.
Cut content can not be used as lore data because if it was actual lore it would not be cut from the game. One thing is something that does not appear in game, other completely different thing is something that was completely cut from the game's events (like Stormcloak giants).
Okay, Ulfric has won friends and allies, so what? Having support makes him win the war now?
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And another thing to add as to why Timelines that goes by vanilla aren't true. Granite hill appeared in daggerfall and was suppose to return to Skyrim but it didn't and it's still mentioned nonetheless in the final game anyways.
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He is MENTIONED, therefore it was not completely cut from the storyline (from the game it was cut, but not from the storyline).
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Ah it is supposed to be a city... muy bad. I was talking about Granite and I did not play TES: Arena
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If the devs wanted to add as much as they can into the game but didn't have time to fully put it in already because of the 11/11/11 date and instead just left it as just a shell of it's former self then it is canon. , Just like the out-of game texts such as Dragonbreak and etc. The civil war is built up and is meant to be the major questline alongside the main quest involving dragons itself. Daggerfall 2 has many endings that splits the timeline. And in morrowind you can kill important characters to change events. So vanilla timelines don't really matter in the Elder scrolls universe.
Not only the giants would be helping for the stormcloaks but also imperials as well. unused quest ID CWMission08 Has mirrors for Imperials also. Giants only working for stormcloaks is just a rumor. Just like all the other common-fan theories of the civil war, such as Ulfric working for the thalmor yet the Thalmors are actually manipulating both sides for their own benefits by having the war last longer and they said he is uncooperative as Ulfric called Elenwen a bitch infront of the season-unending peace talk.
The battle for holds are mentioned by the guards dialogue such as the Guards of Dawnstar saying "We won't give up this port to the Imperials without a fight, don't you worry." and the guards of Markath saying "Let's see those Stormcloaks try to break into this canyon."
Stormcloak mages were mentioned by Imperial soldiers unused dialogue saying "Someone put an arrow into that damn mage!", Note that Stormcloaks also said this as well.
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If they really wanted to add something to the game, to make it part of it's events, they:
1- Would not actually CUT it when it was in development;
2- Would make it available as a DLC;
I have read about Daggerfall's questline and in fact the ending is pretty much the same regardless of who you give the Mantella, if that is what you are talking about.
If the devs really wanted to make giants aid both factions in the questline, they would not have cut such content while it was still in development. By doing that they scratched it from the Lore (unless someone mentions it in game).
What do these dialogues have to do with Giants on the Civil War?
These Stormcloak mages are actually directly MENTIONED in game, despite the fact that they are not seen in game (just like polearms: we can see such weapons in Morrowind and they are mentioned in Oblivion. Clearly the warriors of Skyrim would use them in the Lore, even tough it is not seen in game. Polearms are also seen carried by both imperials and Stormcloaks in TES: Legends)
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Not really, I don't go with Ralof at the start so he's never in my games
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Well I do go with him in the start of Skyrim
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