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nebezial — just ramblings on the topic of style :)
Published: 2015-09-05 20:33:08 +0000 UTC; Views: 115303; Favourites: 334; Downloads: 0
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So, after a metric ton of questions about it, i will assemble some PERSONAL  OPINIONS
On the nature of style, its ups and downs... stuff like that
This is based on my own personal experiences, mistakes, dead ends and fuckups.
So take anything i say here with a few grains of salt.
 
In fact , reason i'm writing this is that i have started getting an unsettling amount of  notes flat out idolizing the imperfect  unfinished mess that is my style, so before it harms people's growth i wanted to share some personal insights i learned over time.  Some through experience, other through conversation with industry professionals.
        STYLE

Style.. the way i would define it is, artistic handwriting.

It is a coveted answer to a visual problem, often imitated but unless build from scratch, rarely comprehended.

If we use the handwriting metaphor, style becomes a natural extension of cutting corners, and working fast.  Just like letters become a distorted form of their learned structure, so do figures, faces, and objects in your artworks.

Often times you will see a beautiful piece of handwriting and you will want to emulate it , or at the very least incorporate it into your own, but unless you know the structure of letters, you will only pick up deformations without truly understanding what made those deformations work.

I was there once. I started off back in the day by emulating 90's style comic artworks. Result was a lack of comprehension.  I could to an extent copy what i saw from artists like Michael Turner, i  could copy those proportions, but as with any  foundation made on distortions, i then added a layer of my own distortions to it.

Suffice to say, the result was less than ideal.

 

So, my advice,  minimize taking influence from styles.  Focus on working from ground up.  Learn structure, proportions, the basics, and then let your own style form  from strong foundation. Hell, if you have that foundation, then you can indulge in letting yourself be influenced.

Now, style has its upsides and downsides.

Upside is that it is often a distinctive and relatively attractive solution to a visual problem. This is what motivates us to often copy them, again been there done that, and if you do, have fun with it, but remember the foundation

Downside is that in its simplicity lies a danger of complacency.  You get too used to the solution that you stop growing. ( this is often temporary).... (hopefully XD)

 

STYLE IN STORYTELLING

 

One of the huge advantages of a style is it's reductivity.  (i don't think that's really a word, but i think you know what it means)

The difference between an illustrator and a storyteller is that an illustrator has the luxury of spending a long time on a single illustration. A storyteller aint got time for that shit!

We got panels to draw, frames to color characters to move from point a to point b.

For that reason the summarized forms achieved through one's personal style help a lot.

You gain speed. You gain productivity.

 

However...

 

You often lose subtlety.  What do i mean by that?

 

Well, let's take a few general large scale styles.  Your  archetypes of styles

Superhero western comic style

Manga style

Disney style.

 

If you take a look you will notice that repetition of same looking characters is a constant thing

(WAZZAAAP!  I DO THAT TOO!)

 

But why is this the case?

Because subtleties get lost over time.

Have you ever noticed how you either have

1- attractive characters (that all kinda look like same character with different hair and clothes)  be it a superhero/superheroine , or a disney princess or an anime...um... hero/villain/random person

2- Distinctive characters ( very intense facial structure with very little subtlety, all chiseled out of a block of pure distinctiveness of features, never has a world seen such a distinctive person!)

3- Or completely out of the left field outrageous characters

 

Reason for that is that storytelling is a very grindy repetitive process. Be it comics or animation.

Let's say you make a character and decide, it will have slightly droopy eyes and a small bump of the nose. Let's say you insist these are not going to be overt traits, but subtle, portrait like characteristics.

Those two traits over time have a way of evaporating. 

.Subtlety gets lost over time,  like a meaning of a sentence in the game of chinese whispers. 


 

So this is why you will notice certain visual archetypes being repeated.

 ( again, I am a good example here )

 

You see, thing about visual storytelling is, for the most part we are not drawing real people. They are a language of visual symbols. This is why when you look at an anime you see 20 same characters and yet you can still recognize who is who.

Again, exceptions as always, do apply. Many storyteller rely heavily on photo references, or have over time devoted themselves to completely purging  style from their artwork and relied solely on doing pure realism. They are masters of their craft but even their method is often far from perfect as what is overly defined often becomes overly static.

 

Point is,  there is a time and a place for every one of those approaches.

 

YOUR OWN STYLE

Again, going back to the beginning, my advice is, start from the grounds up. Learn realism first, understand what is happening and why it is happening before you  work on your way of showing it happening.

If you feel strongly that you want to learn from other people's styles, you can. But just be aware of it's flaws. You are learning from someone who already applied deformations to the form. You will inevitably apply your own layer of deformations and overshoot the golden zone of where deformations look good and end up in the "the hell did i just draw "territory

You will mess up, but you will  learn, trust me speaking from experience.

Over time you will feel your style as your own artistic handwriting and then you will see what you want to do with it.  Step by step you will improve your artistic language, master drawing bodylanguage, expressions , gestures

(still learning)

Master incorporating nuanced looking different characters

(i swear it's on my to do list XD)

Master telling a story .

(also on my to do list...  it's a long list)

It is a hard but rewarding journey.

 



 
Ps, if you are now writing an elaborate wall of text telling me all the ways in which i am wrong...then the opening statement may have gone completely over your head XD 


joking aside , try not to make it a wall of text XD easier to reply to shorter stuff

Related content
Comments: 139

Fehnryr [2015-10-04 05:21:58 +0000 UTC]

This is extremely well written! Also, it can be read as an article about "writing style" as well! That's what I assumed it was at first, and all the information was equally fitting. You have to learn how to write using the basics and the groundwork before you can develop a writing style.

I think it would be really neat if you added some visuals to this to demonstrate some of your points, but all together it's very well said and put together! :3

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merineiti [2015-10-03 13:21:01 +0000 UTC]

Very good column!
Your analogy with handwriting is spot on. You often see tips like "don't copy! Use your own style" and then people are frustrated because they can't understand what is this "own style" they should have, sweat over trying to engineer an unique style. But it does not work that way. You can't force your style. Just keep drawing, keep learning, copy (yes, copy! like in your analogy, you learnt to write by copying the letters, now your handwriting is nothing like what you copied) from the masters, live, laugh, love and paint, and one day realize all that you have learnt have boiled into something new, that is in fact that mysterious 'your own style'

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paige-alexander [2015-09-20 03:26:10 +0000 UTC]

Thanks for this; very helpful. I find my style is a distinctive sort of glaze over everything I attempt to draw, but my work definitely has more clarity the more I use references. Realism is something I need to focus on more,  thank-you for this!

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Jams-da-1 [2015-09-19 15:12:32 +0000 UTC]

Very thought provoking.

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FRivArts [2015-09-18 01:19:56 +0000 UTC]

I agree. Imitating and even copying can be used as learning tools, but not if you don't understand the bare bones. If you don't understand what you're looking at, it will not only come out worse, but you won't understand or learn. I simplify it to "copying is bad" because pretty much next to nobody actually breaks it down.

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browncoat4life [2015-09-17 08:35:31 +0000 UTC]

Thank you.
As someone freshly learning ropes, that is all.
Cheers!

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xnra [2015-09-15 16:00:44 +0000 UTC]

I love the handwriting metaphor. 

Agreed learn basics, or RE-learn the basics if you're an experienced artist. Sometimes returning to the fundamentals can recharge a "style" and bring new life to something that felt "same-y".

Bravo, sir. Bravo. 

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were-were-wolfy [2015-09-15 14:03:28 +0000 UTC]

Reminds me of some of the older "So... You're a Cartoonist?" stuff. Haven't read any of those for a while, maybe I should go and check... *wanders off*

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KaseySnowArt [2015-09-14 16:55:27 +0000 UTC]

Excellent post, you hit everything on the head. Whether we are just beginning our artistic journey or have been at this for years, I think these words are always good to hear and a good reminder of what makes a great distinctive style.

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FatherLuna [2015-09-14 02:49:16 +0000 UTC]

I'm a backassward [it's a word, I swear!] artist.
A lot of people say "learn the basics first!"
But I'm one of those people who learns by just throwing myself at it.
It's was only recently (after 5-8 years) that I finally bought a drawing book.
It shows too...
But my bad habits have held me back tenfold.
My friend who just started digital art is already drawing Manga that looks awesome.

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Fortunato-Sors [2015-09-13 04:46:14 +0000 UTC]

Sage advice for anyone looking to do anything art wise.

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RukarioTrainer [2015-09-12 08:02:35 +0000 UTC]

Then there is the case where your not really striving to be an artist and absolutely positively cannot grasp anatomy/proportion/perspective/realism such that you try starting something in a realish styles and then have no idea what to do next whatsoever if your not almost direclty copying it bit by bit form other places (and even then.... >_> ) .. and using cartoony/highly mis-proportioned/strected/deformed styles at least allows you to get some kind of idea on paper... >_<
I mean I realize at this state your drawings are more like concept art then real artist products.. but it's something..

As you can see form my free request journal that's where I am.. but that said I'm a grad student studying Computer Science.. visual reference to get the idea across to actual artists is probably the absolute most I'll ever need anyway.... hehe..

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Amiacon [2015-09-12 06:22:45 +0000 UTC]

Always good to see other people saying things like this! I only recently came to terms with the fact that I absolutely CANNOT make tidy lines (dang it, manga, making that so hard to accept XD) after studying art at university and learning how many more ways there are to do things than the few that I'd looked to for inspiration so far. I'm still trying to figure things out, and you are absolutely right: artistic growth is so much easier if you observe first and THEN develop your own way.

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MoRi-00 [2015-09-12 01:33:08 +0000 UTC]

Good points.  As I've been rehabilitating my art skills it's something I've been wondering about - direct emulation vs building up my own style.  And your comment about building up from the foundation is so true.  It's been something I've been doing, focusing on light and anatomy, while also studying the things that I find appealing from my favorite artists.

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Stettafire [2015-09-11 22:01:56 +0000 UTC]

This article is awesome, found it completly by accident, and I'm glad I did
Thank you for writing this

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Manda-of-the-6 [2015-09-11 02:17:10 +0000 UTC]

Being an animation student, I can understand how the subtle aspects in character design can get bogged down by need to produce. 

Mistakes are from lack of understanding the basics. Learning from these help solidify the foundations. And style is how the artist intentionally bends or breaks the "rules" established by the basics. Style is how the artist interprets the basics. 

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TheArtributor [2015-09-09 22:12:05 +0000 UTC]

Good article, great observations. 

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chiibichangas [2015-09-09 20:29:55 +0000 UTC]

These things are definitely food for thought. I think the crux of the issue is that people's tendency to idolize makes them think that better artists are somehow perfect gods of art or something, when in reality, everyone has something to work on.

I actually built up my own style by emulating others' styles. I was only able to do that after building my technical skills a bit. But I don't know if emulation has been exactly harmful to my growth as an artist.
I have noticed how characters can end up looking the same, though, so I try to focus on giving them all their own unique features. It might slow things down, but I personally don't like all my characters looking the same, so I'd rather have diversity over getting things done quicker, I guess.

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kitiaramajere [2015-09-09 16:00:47 +0000 UTC]

Thanks for the explanation, I'd noticed the repetitions (still, repeating beauty isn't soooo bad) and hadn't realized the why behind it!

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ABKReilly [2015-09-09 12:07:00 +0000 UTC]

Wall of text. War will text. What'll Tex. Walt Ex.  

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TswordZ [2015-09-09 01:49:47 +0000 UTC]

Insta-fav. Good advices.

Slow, but still learning here (although I'm going better on painting more than drawing, but... ok, more practice ).

Now I see why I don't have a own style yet. Need more foundation. Learn the basics (especially anatomy).

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Jabroniville [2015-09-08 03:23:15 +0000 UTC]

Great advice. Fun stuff. The self-effacing bits are funny, too (sure many of your characters have the same smile or chin, but at least they're not Jim Lee/Frank Cho-class "SameFace Syndrome" sufferers .

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HallowGazer [2015-09-07 15:27:45 +0000 UTC]

I agree with most of what you're saying. And the lesson to take away from it is definitely spot-on.

Thought, the way you talk about style, it sounds like you actually have a choice, whether to draw "in style" or not. Which, I think, is not the case, because you always draw in a style.
Draw like Disney - cartoony style.
Draw like Marvel - western comic style.
Draw things like you see in real life - realistic style.
Maybe I just misunderstood your point, though

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nebezial In reply to HallowGazer [2015-09-07 16:33:23 +0000 UTC]

at the end of it all you can always go with absolute photorealism and just purge any any all trace of style. in handwriting metaphor i would say, properly construct those letters with no  influence of handwriting every time. and there are quite a few people who do just that

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HallowGazer In reply to nebezial [2015-09-09 21:22:32 +0000 UTC]

I see.
So by your definition, style = simplification of reality, no style at all would be to perfectly replicate reality?
Interesting.

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nebezial In reply to HallowGazer [2015-09-10 02:00:58 +0000 UTC]

not really a definition but just the way i always saw it. not saying it's the right way to look at it just my way

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Sanae94 [2015-09-07 12:26:14 +0000 UTC]

Wow, I never thought about this but after reading and thinking about your words it really makes sense. Thanks for your ramblings, they will surely help people who are starting to draw and write. I think it helped me at least ^^

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Britannica-Graced [2015-09-07 11:38:05 +0000 UTC]

I'm aspiring to draw a manga myself and admittedly I've tried developing my style through emulating other people's art styles, with limited success. It's been very frustrating, but this journal entry helped me to understand why this approach wasn't working out too well for me. Thank you so much for this! And I absolutely adore your work, and your characters. Can't wait to see more from you!   

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nahrikira [2015-09-07 03:50:17 +0000 UTC]

That handwriting analogy was amazingly helpful; I always thought imitating others would be a good way to learn, but you make a good argument for doing it another way. Thank you.

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wraithdragon [2015-09-07 03:15:15 +0000 UTC]

I actually really really like the handwriting analogy that you used. I've never thought of style in that way before, but now I see it clearly. Thanks for that!

I've always had this "gotta find my style, gotta find my style" mindset, and never finding because I will see other people's styles and be like "OMG I want that to be my style", so I feel like I flip flop a lot. But really I've come to learn lately that your "style" is how you draw when you're not trying to draw like someone else. I try not to worry about style so much any more, but I just want to be able to be consistent in how I'm drawing when I'm making comics. I don't care what my style is as long as I can make it consistent.

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Polardarkness [2015-09-06 21:51:56 +0000 UTC]

My thoughts exactly, I really have to work on facial features. I find Robert DeJesus' drawings nice on that aspect (although sonetimes they can get repetitive).

I can't say that it's exactly the same thing for handwriting though (on my experience). A long time ago I decided to learn different types of handwriting, I didn't think too much about it and it came out well.

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SuikTwoPointOh [2015-09-06 21:18:27 +0000 UTC]

Hard lessons to learn but inescapably true.  I always say any skill is like learning to write - whether it's drawing, martial arts, music sports.  You have to learn to form the basic letters over and over before you can make words and before you can write in joined up writing and that's when your signature will eventually appear.  Your signature is your style.

So for me it's plenty of basics from Andrew Loomis books, quickposes.com etc (instead of just trying to copy this Sejic guy.... )

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ecotef [2015-09-06 18:38:11 +0000 UTC]

Love your thoughts. That makes total sense, and I appreciate you sharing that perspective....I never thought of "style" as a departure from, or in your words a "deformation" of, standardized structure and understanding. That puts it in a more workable realm of "I can learn how to do that!" instead of, "I want to draw like that...Haow Tho!?"

Thanks for posting!

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SMitchinson [2015-09-06 17:45:29 +0000 UTC]

A very interesting read and a good reminder to stay true to yourself. Thank you for your time writing this.

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kobaltkween [2015-09-06 16:14:11 +0000 UTC]

Actually, I think you hit the nail on the head.  You've captured why I find real life drawing better than using photos for reference.   Not that I often get the luxury of working from life (at all), and not that I don't appreciate all those amazingly talented photographers out there whose work I use for references, but the camera and photographer still add, as you say, a "layer of distortion." 

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HMGMishy [2015-09-06 16:04:31 +0000 UTC]

Aye, capi-tain! No wall of text! XD

Just to say, I think that you're right in a lot of ways.
I've made plenty of mistakes in my short time as an artist by trying to copy others, but let me just say -- it's all in the eye of the beholder.

Me, I tend to lean toward the manga-style. Having said that, there are many manga artists and all have unique styles within their own work.
Some examples would be, one artist might draw larger heads with stubby limbs for their characters while the other would draw small heads and long, slender limbs.
Both artists are satisfied with their own work and don't want to change, but, for the developing artist who wishes to imitate these styles, they might feel that the art is wrong for them.
This is how I learned anyway, and it was a very good experience because I think I have my own style (though I still like to imitate when it comes to fan-art).

*tried not to make a wall of text, did anyway . . .*
It's so hard not to give a lengthy reply to such a journal . . . Sorry . . . TwT

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Sandramimosa [2015-09-06 15:38:50 +0000 UTC]

Funny how you talk about this:

"1- attractive characters (that all kinda look like same character with different hair and clothes)  be it a superhero/superheroine , or a disney princess or an anime...um... hero/villain/random person (that's you friend)

2- Distinctive characters ( very intense facial structure with very little subtlety, all chiseled out of a block of pure distinctiveness of features, never has a world seen such a distinctive person!)

3- Or completely out of the left field outrageous characters"

when most your characters share the same facial features, like long noses and pointy chins. Over the years I have noticed this tendency in your art style and while I adore your visuals sometimes I don't know who's talking to who, especially between two girls.

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nebezial In reply to Sandramimosa [2015-09-06 16:35:07 +0000 UTC]

i said i do that... 2 lines up

If you take a look you will notice that repetition of same looking characters is a constant thing

(WAZZAAAP!  I DO THAT TOO!)




and yes, you know who is talking to whom. you always know


just like you know in an anime and just how you know who is anna and who is elsa in frozen.

remember, it's a langiuage of visual symbols a simple change of hair visually already signifies a difference. this is why you can with a few small acessories and color changes turn superman into green lantern and wonderwoman into black canary.



point is, it's not idealnor perfect, it will never be, but who knows, over time i too shall improve.... AND THEN EVERYONE CONSIDERING THEMSELVES MY RIVALS WILL SEE!!!!! THEY ALL LAUGHED AT ME!!! THEY SAID I WAS MAD!!!!
 

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FRivArts In reply to nebezial [2015-09-18 15:06:48 +0000 UTC]

The thing about Anna and Elsa (and anime (but not manga)) is that they have the benefit of having distinct voices and be on the constant move/have positions within a 3D space--we have a lot less problem tracking them--and also that nobody shared any signature colors; Anna/Elsa's mother was probably killed off as to not cause confusion--muahahahahahahaha. Their faces (and bland expressions) were nothing worth noting, but there are other ways to follow who is who.

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kawaiku In reply to nebezial [2015-09-06 22:26:46 +0000 UTC]

Don't mean to butt in on your conversation but, I think a good artist and storyteller can defeat this tendency. I've read numerous mangas where, overtime, many characters begin looking the same and if you haven't seen them in a while and or some names drop... you're completely lost because every character looks so uniformly like the other that you almost stop caring about anyone BUT, the main characters. So far, I haven't had an issue like that with Stjepan's works or for most western comics for that matter (must be because of the fact they use color *shrugs*).

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Sandramimosa In reply to nebezial [2015-09-06 22:11:32 +0000 UTC]

There was this page you made for Death Sigil that I absolutely didn't know who was who, the girls looked exactly the same. Elsa and Anna don't look the same.

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nebezial In reply to Sandramimosa [2015-09-06 22:16:34 +0000 UTC]

what page?

also i forgot their mother looked the same as well XD still had no problems distinguishing them


 


but joking aside, make no mistake i am never gonna claim my artwork to be good at everything. it doesn't need to be. i need it to tell a story. small glitches aside, it does that pretty well. any improvement after that is a welcome one

but at the same time i don't worry about this stuff. 

sometimes a critique can be objectively correct 
and functionally irrelevant. 

saying that elsa and anna are the same looking character is objectively correct. so is saying that those proportions don't look correct for a human being and so on. 

it still doesn't mean you can't tell them apart. on a simple level of symbols , you know who is who, and you understand the story told therefore their function is accomplished

did that make sense?
sometimes these ramblings make sense in my head but then they come out and FDAFFADSAFDSAFD XD

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Sandramimosa In reply to nebezial [2015-09-06 22:32:26 +0000 UTC]

nobody would have problems to mdistinguish them but here:

:thumb550897512:

Who's the blonde woman and the black haired one? one is the professor doing research on the sigils and the other one is Bernie, right? They look the same.

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nebezial In reply to Sandramimosa [2015-09-06 22:33:46 +0000 UTC]

ugh thumb doesn't work also i edited my previous post

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Sandramimosa In reply to nebezial [2015-09-06 22:37:05 +0000 UTC]

well here : death vigil 8- nothing suspicious  and here: death vigil, destroyers of the world  I couldn't tell the girl with black hair was Bernie

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nebezial In reply to Sandramimosa [2015-09-06 22:39:49 +0000 UTC]

first time i heard this. i did put quite a bit of efforts visually showing the power being siphoned off bernie to maria in the 2 issues and bernie showing more and more of her real hair color and tan coincidentally, but hey, a fuckup is a fuckup, and i am more than capable of fucking up  

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Sandramimosa In reply to nebezial [2015-09-06 22:48:21 +0000 UTC]

Don't get me wrong, I love your storytelling and detailed art style but it bothers me that you put some common facial features in most your characters. For example your Poison Ivy pin-ups have the same faces as Bernie or Maria have. 

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nebezial In reply to Sandramimosa [2015-09-06 22:49:38 +0000 UTC]

that's allright. same actors different movie XD

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Sandramimosa In reply to nebezial [2015-09-06 22:52:20 +0000 UTC]

hahahahaha!! Great!! you see, you're so creative!! I love that about you and your books.

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nebezial In reply to Sandramimosa [2015-09-06 22:53:34 +0000 UTC]

thank you, and patience, as i said in the journal, facial diversity is on my to do list... and i meant it i too, like everyone else, am still learning .

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