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Published: 2010-02-01 01:06:06 +0000 UTC; Views: 37755; Favourites: 741; Downloads: 382
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Once you know what your characters and doing and saying, how do you get all that down on Paper without ending up with a huge confusing mess?Putting the Story on Paper.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Everybody knows that when a new speaker speaks they get a new paragraph, right? In other words, you DON'T put two different people talking in the same paragraph. Okay, yeah, so anyone who has written any kind of fiction learns this pretty darned quick, (usually from their readers.)
What nobody seems to get is that the same goes for a new character's ACTIONS. Seriously, when a new character ACTS they're supposed to get their own paragraph -- even if they don't speak!
In short, you paragraph by change in CHARACTER -- not because they speak, but because they ACT. Ahem... Dialogue is an ACTION. In other words, the reason you don't put two different characters' Dialogue in the same paragraph is BECAUSE you don't mix two characters' Actions. Okay?
"Wait a minute, doesn't that cut everything into tiny bits, you know, when you cut all the dialogue away then divide up all those paragraphs?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No because Character A's dialogue is supposed to be IN Character A's paragraph of actions. Character B gets his own paragraph of dialogue AND actions. You divide up a story's paragraphs by individual Character -- not by individual lines of Dialogue OR Actions.
What you definitely don't do, is cut all the dialogue away from everything and mash all the different characters' actions together in one messy paragraph where no one can tell who did what.
"Where the heck did THAT rule come from?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Strunk & White's Element's of Style, the grammar handbook.
To wit…
-- "In dialogue, each speech, even if only a single word, is a paragraph by itself; that is, a new paragraph begins with each change of speaker."
This is often misinterpreted as "Make a new paragraph at every new line of dialogue."
Um... No. The key phrase here is "a new paragraph begins with Each Change of Speaker."
As long as the Speaker is Acting, the Speaker HAS NOT CHANGED. However, every time a new character Acts, you ARE Changing Speakers -- even if they don't talk! Therefore, each new character ACTING gets a New Paragraph, whether or not they have dialogue.
How this works...
WRONG:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"You named a stuffed animal?" Toby raised his eyebrows, surprised, and Becky's blush grew brighter, creeping down her neck. < -- Two Characters acting in the same paragraph.>
Becky mumbled, "I wouldn't so much say named, as gave it an identifying word to distinguish it from all the other stuffed cute kitty plushies." < -- this whole line is Abandoned Dialogue.>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
RIGHT:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Toby raised his eyebrows, surprised. "You named a stuffed animal?"
Becky's blush grew brighter, creeping down her neck. "I wouldn't so much say named, as gave it an identifying word to distinguish it from all the other stuffed cute kitty plushies."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What's Missing?
-- 'Becky mumbled'. <-- This is an unnecessary Dialogue tag. Once you link a character's Dialogue to their corresponding Actions, you no longer need the Dialogue tags.
If you really, really want to add that Becky mumbled her words, describe it as an action. Don't TELL us that she mumbled, SHOW us.
Example:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Becky's blush grew brighter, creeping down her neck. Her voice dropped to a mumble. "I wouldn't so much say named, as gave an identifying word to distinguish it from all the other stuffed cute kitty plushies."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-----Original Message-----
"What if the next internals and action/dialogue are his, like:"
"You named a stuffed animal?" Toby raised his eyebrows, surprised, and Becky's blush grew brighter, creeping down her neck. Her reaction was adorable and he couldn't resist needling her some more. "I thought you hated stuffies."
"Then can you lump those actions together?"
-- Thanks in advance -- Jas
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Um... NO.
-- Remember this?
"…A new paragraph begins with Each Change of Speaker."
-- When a new character ACTS they're supposed to get a new paragraph.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"You named a stuffed animal?" Toby raised his eyebrows, surprised, and <-- Toby's Actions / Becky's Actions --> Becky's blush grew brighter, creeping down her neck.
Becky didn't say anything, but she IS acting -- a blush is an action -- therefore Becky gets her OWN paragraph.
Adjusted:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"You named a stuffed animal?" Toby raised his eyebrows, surprised.
Becky's blush grew brighter, creeping down her neck.
However, this is incorrect too:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"You named a stuffed animal?" Toby raised his eyebrows, surprised.
Actions go BEFORE Reactions Toby was surprised so he commented: "You named a stuffed animal?" He didn't comment and THEN become surprised.
Adjusted:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Toby raised his eyebrows, surprised. "You named a stuffed animal?"
All together now!
Original:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"You named a stuffed animal?" Toby raised his eyebrows, surprised, and Becky's blush grew brighter, creeping down her neck. Her reaction was adorable and he couldn't resist needling her some more. "I thought you hated stuffies."
Adjusted:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Toby raised his eyebrows, surprised. "You named a stuffed animal?"
Becky's blush grew brighter, creeping down her neck.
Her reaction was so adorable, Toby couldn't resist needling her some more. "I thought you hated stuffies?"
-----Original Message-----
"But when you do that, it looks so...choppy on the page. There's ton's of empty white space!"
-- Hates Empty Space
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes, it looks choppy on the page, but its Far More Important that there is absolutely no doubt in anyone's mind as to who is acting and who is speaking.
Another Example:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Don't help me. I'm fine by myself," she told him, not bothering to be polite. He looked surprised and perhaps a little hurt. She heard another voice.
"Geez, you're pretty full of yourself, aren't you?" She got to her feet and brushed herself off, glancing in the direction of the newcomer. She nearly recoiled in shock. Another handsome guy. He crossed his arms over his chest. "He was just trying to help you." He told her. She readjusted her bag and said.
"I don't recall asking for help."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By the way, once you separate each of your character's actions into new paragraphs and reconnect each character's dialogue to their actions, you won't need dialogue tags such as "said" because your character's actions are the identifiers for your dialogue.
With actions separated & dialogue attached.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Don't help me. I'm fine by myself." She didn't bother to be polite.
He looked surprised and perhaps a little hurt.
A new voice called out. "Geez, you're pretty full of yourself, aren't you?"
She got to her feet and brushed herself off, glancing in the direction of the newcomer. Another handsome guy. She nearly recoiled in shock.
He crossed his arms over his chest. "He was just trying to help you."
She readjusted her bag. "I don't recall asking for help."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you truly loathe all that white space, then fill it in with more actions, description, and internal narration observations.
-----Original Message-----
But what about when someone is watching someone else, or feeling someone do something to them? -- Concerned about Observation
This seems perfectly fine, right?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
He watched her shake her butt.
He felt her skin move against his.
However, once you take this into account:
"…A new paragraph begins with Each Change of Speaker."
-- When a new character ACTS they're supposed to get a new paragraph.
Not so fine after all. You have two people acting in the same line -- in Both Cases.
The way around this little gem of a problem, is to SHOW the event by character rather than TELL it in one lump.
You begin by dividing the actions by Character:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
He watched her.
She shook her butt and her skin moved against his.
He felt it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seems kind'a…short eh? That's because those lines TOLD you what happened, instead of Showing you what happened, so there are all kinds of details missing. Once you add enough details to paint a whole picture…
Adjusted:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From his seat at the edge of the stage, he watched her.
Tall, svelte, and in the skimpiest bathing suit he'd ever seen, she moved in close and shook her butt. The round, firm flesh jiggled enticingly against his face.
His cheeks were subjected to the most incredible, though slightly sweaty, facial massage ever.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
KILL the Dialogue Tags. (Seriously.)
-- When you have an action with a line of dialogue, you don't need Dialogue tags, such as "he said" -- at all. You already know through their actions WHO is speaking.
Dialogue tags are only ever needed when you don't have any other way of identifying the speaker.
HOWEVER, if you have no other way of knowing who is speaking than dialogue tags, then you have committed the heinous crime of:
Dialogue in a Vacuum
- Also known as "talking heads syndrome."
A book with nothing but reams of dialogue marked only by dialogue tags means that while people may be talking, there is no PICTURE. The mental movie has stopped and only the sound-track is playing. Compare it to a Radio Show with no sound effects.
I don't know about you, but when I go to read a story, I want to SEE what I'm reading like a movie, not listen to a radio show.
Memorize this:
Readers always interpret what they read the way they want to see it -- unless you SHOW them what you envisioned.
In other words…
What CAN be misunderstood -- WILL be misunderstood.
Leave Nothing to Misinterpretation.
-- Readers will ALWAYS make whatever assumptions come to mind about what they are reading. When a reader realizes that what they thought was going on -- wasn't, they'll get confused, and occasionally pissed off.
Unmarked blocks of dialogue are painfully EASY to get lost in.
I remember reading one whole page of un-tagged action-less dialogue only to find out that I had two of the characters reversed. Did I reread that whole page to figure out what was going on? Hell no! I tossed the book across the room. (In fact, it's still on the floor gathering dust bunnies.)
"But, isn't that's what 'said' and other dialogue tags are for?"
Just for the record...
-- Using dialogue tags is Not against the rules. Dialogue tags are a perfectly viable way to identify who is speaking -- it just makes that part of the story BORING. (I don't know about you, but I won't read something that bores me.)
I choose to write my dialogue without using "said" unless I am actually describing a change in voice, tone, or volume in the same paragraph. And even then, I try to avoid them. I use the speaker's actions to define who is speaking to whom.
I use ACTION TAGS.
"What the heck is an Action Tag?"
BODY LANGUAGE
Language is Visual not just a bunch of words. Watch the average conversation between two people. 90% of that conversation isn't in what's spoken, it's in what they are DOING as they are speaking. It's in their Body Language. Body-language cues the reader as to what is going on in a character's head – in ADDITION to dialogue and internal narrative.
Action and body-language tags on dialogue are Not just for decoration.
-- Stories are Mental Movies you play in your imagination. I don't know about you, but I HATE to be interrupted when I'm involved in a good movie. If I have to stop and reread a section just to figure out what the heck is going on, I've been interrupted. One too many interruptions and I'm switching to another story -- with no intention of continuing with something that's just too much work to get through.
Action tags keep the mental Movie rolling and the MEANING of what is being said crystal clear. A small simple action can tell you right away, what's going through the speaker's head.
Don't just SAY it! ~ SHOW IT!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I love you too." She rolled her eyes and sighed dramatically. "Oh yes, I truly do love you."
"I love you too." She dropped her chin and pouted. "Oh yes, I truly do love you."
"I love you too." She glared straight at him. "Oh yes, I truly do love you."
"I love you too." She turned away and wiped the tear from her cheek. "Oh yes, I truly do love you."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WHY I loathe the word "said".
- To be perfectly clear, it's not JUST the word 'said', I hate ALL Dialogue Tags inclusively. I utterly refuse to use them.
Why?
- Because they're wasteful. They clutter up dialogue while slowing down actions, and they use up word-count that could be far better used elsewhere.
I don't believe in putting anything in my fiction that isn't useful. If it doesn't add to the character or the plot, it gets eradicated. Dialogue tags are too easily replaced by something that actually adds to the story, such as an action, a facial expression, a spot of description, or a character's opinions.
Just for the record, I write extremely dialogue-heavy fiction. When I find that a dialogue tag is indeed needed in my story to identify who is talking, I see it as a red flag that indicates that all action has come to a screeching halt. Nothing is Happening other than talking; also known as: Talking Heads Syndrome.
When that happens, I find some way to fill that space with something useful to the story such as an action, a facial expression, a spot of description, or a character's opinions -- ANYTHING other than a dialogue tag.
But those are MY feelings on the subject.
-- Your mileage may vary.
Dialogue tags ARE a legitimate form of sentence structure. When there is no other way to identify a speaker, dialogue tags are indeed a viable option.
What about Punctuation for Dialogue?
- Go here:
theeditorsblog.net/2010/12/08/…
Read that.
Paragraph Aesthetics
-----Original Message-----
"I suppose the issue I have is with the aesthetics of paragraphing. Though text is not comparable to a visual medium such as film, it is still something that we have to view with our eyes."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Actually, text aesthetics -- the way the words appear on the page -- seems to be a HUGE bone of contention.
-----Original Message-----
"...The way I see it, your example suggests that I break my text up into a lot of little paragraphs. Given this understanding, in a scene rich with alternating action, it looks like I'll be left with a lot of one-line paragraphs. ...I'd greatly appreciate it if you clarified this situation. I suppose that is the trouble with having to jot down the basics, you can't expand on the little details of the rule. ^_^
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Paragraph Aesthetics - Illustrated
-- The way a story appears on a standard 9.5 x 11 inch piece of paper is NOT the way to judge whether or not one's paragraphs are too long or too short. A story viewed on a browser page carries even less weight.
Why not?
-- Because Fiction is generally printed on pages HALF the size of a full sheet of paper. What appears to be a lot of short little paragraphs on the "internet page," are NOT so short or so little once you put them on the Printed page.
The standard sizes for printed Fiction are: paperback (4.25 x 6.75 inches), and trade paperback (5.5 x 8.25 inches.) Hard-cover books use the same size page as a Trade. Only coffee-table books possess printed pages anywhere near the size of a standard sheet of paper.
Visual Aids:
ALL examples are 12 pt. Times New Roman font.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Standard Paperback 6.75 x 4.25, 1/2 inch margins:
i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp…
Trade paperback 5.5 x 8.25, 1/2 inch margins:
i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp…
Standard sheet of paper 8.5" x 11", 1 inch margins:
i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp…
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personally, I could care less what my text looks like on the page. As far as I'm concerned, making the story as clear and easy to read as possible is far more important to me than what the text looks like. If I have done my job well, no one will even notice the words - only the story unfolding in their imaginations.
As for internet reading, I'm completely baffled why anyone would care how it looks on the browser page. All you have to do is narrow the window and the text adjusts.
-----Original Message-----
"Also, I hope you don't mind, but did you come up with the rules yourself, through experience and trial and error, publisher's advice, or is there a handy guide I can employ? Obviously, I quite loyally follow Strunk and White, but I don't think it talks about this subject much. Is there a book that YOU use?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Let's start here:
"...did you come up with the rules yourself, through experience and trial and error, publisher's advice...?"
YES - to all of the above, plus editor hounding and long chats with a number of extremely well-established fiction authors. In addition, I've read a crap-load of how-to books. I'm pretty sure I own, and have practically memorized, just about every book "Writer's Digest" has put out.
My writing advice posts are the results of taking all the info I'd crammed into my head and condensing it into small bite-sized, chewable, pieces that are easy to remember and much easier to apply. Rather than waste people's time on theory, I focus on application.
As for recommended reads...
-- Unfortunately, there is no one guide that shows it all. Not One. However, there are two books I can't praise highly enough. As far as I'm concerned, they are VITAL reading for fiction writing.
SCENE & STRUCTURE by Jack. M. Bickham
THE WRITER'S JOURNEY by Christopher Vogler
-- (Google is your friend.)
There are lots of other books I could recommend, but these are the two "Must Haves" if an author really, REALLY wants to write fiction well.
Enjoy!
Related content
Comments: 337
OokamiKasumi In reply to ??? [2010-03-30 15:35:36 +0000 UTC]
I'm firmly of the the opinion that a tutorial should actually Tutor you on how to do something. Simply ranting never did anyone any good.
I'm glad you liked my article! It's a hard technique to learn, but once you get used to it you'll discover that it's actually Easier and Faster to write this way. This is in addition to making your story crystal clear for your readers to Visualize in their imaginations.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Quco In reply to OokamiKasumi [2010-03-30 15:52:01 +0000 UTC]
yeah, the visualize part works ok when i read my own story... and i dont want anyone readin it fore ive gotten longer on it... om only done with 3 chaps
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OokamiKasumi In reply to Quco [2010-03-30 16:02:28 +0000 UTC]
Smart girl.
-- I normally don't post any story until I know the end is in sight. I hate reading stories that don't have endings.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Quco In reply to OokamiKasumi [2010-03-30 16:19:14 +0000 UTC]
though, u must agree that some stories is pretty good without ending i cant mantion anyone... but i know ive read one i really liked with an open ending
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OokamiKasumi In reply to Quco [2010-03-30 16:35:02 +0000 UTC]
I don't mind an open ending, I'm talking about when the story is clearly Unfinished--and has been so for quite a while. Those I don't bother with.
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Quco In reply to OokamiKasumi [2010-03-30 20:49:24 +0000 UTC]
ahhh~
right that makes me go crazy!
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
SillySnowFox In reply to ??? [2010-03-21 05:53:37 +0000 UTC]
Oh, I HATE Talking Heads..... On TV and in Fiction. And it bugs me to no end seeing it in my own writing. I've sat looking at a block of dialog for hours trying to figure out some way of getting the characters to do something.
Never did finish that story, I wonder what happened to it..?
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OokamiKasumi In reply to SillySnowFox [2010-03-21 09:02:55 +0000 UTC]
The trick is to defeating Talking Heads is to have even a Small action happening at the same time--even if it's just walking to the store or cleaning house.
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SillySnowFox In reply to OokamiKasumi [2010-03-21 16:36:37 +0000 UTC]
A "Walk and Talk"
I know that now, and I can't find that story this happened in, otherwise I'd rewrite it. I kinda liked it.
I might just write a new version...
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OokamiKasumi In reply to SillySnowFox [2010-03-21 20:41:22 +0000 UTC]
Your new versions are Always better than your originals simply because you've learned a whole bunch of new things with each new story.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
SillySnowFox In reply to OokamiKasumi [2010-03-21 20:47:26 +0000 UTC]
That's why I want to find some of my old stuff, so I can see how I've improved. As well as reworking the old ones I liked into something more readable!
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OokamiKasumi In reply to SillySnowFox [2010-03-21 21:38:02 +0000 UTC]
I look at my old work and Cringe.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
CastleDean In reply to ??? [2010-03-09 13:03:52 +0000 UTC]
I love you. More specifically, I love what you've done here and how I've been made better by it.
Many hearts
Also, and
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
OokamiKasumi In reply to CastleDean [2010-03-09 15:53:07 +0000 UTC]
Wow... That is quite a compliment!
-- Seriously though, I'm glad I could provide some insight.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
raspil In reply to ??? [2010-03-09 01:50:35 +0000 UTC]
This is an incredibly important tutorial. So many writers at this site don't know the above to a distressing degree (especially the ones who call themselves "writters"). Kudos to you and this instant fave.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
OokamiKasumi In reply to raspil [2010-03-09 04:14:25 +0000 UTC]
Are you kidding? I know published authors who haven't figured this out yet.
Technically speaking though, it really isn't the writers' or authors' fault because it is Not Taught Anywhere--not even in college. It's generally learned from one's first editor. (That's where I learned it!)
However, if the editor is new or poorly trained this technique is not passed to the author. Sadly, once a poorly written story is published, the new author tends to think: "Oh, but I'm published! That makes it Right!" (Bangs head against wall.)
Then there are the multi-billion dollar authors who are ignored because they will sell a million books no matter how many mistakes they make. This makes for extremely bad examples for new writers to learn from. "Oh but NoraNobertStephenKingAnneRice did it! Why can't I?"
Just so you know, my main editor is a DEMON who jumps my case every chance she gets--and I am VERY grateful to her for doing so.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
raspil In reply to OokamiKasumi [2010-03-09 04:30:38 +0000 UTC]
I know published authors who haven't figured this out yet.
Fair enough on that one.
I know I used to do what was mentioned in your tutorial. If it hadn't been for the guidance and advice from the good "critters" in the dA lit community, I'd still be doing it. I do have to make sure I catch myself in the editing process to make sure sloppiness or old bad habits don't resurface.
"Oh but NoraNobertStephenKingAnneRice did it! Why can't I?"
Lord help us all.
I wonder how we lost our way from doing things according to certain rules and began doing them according to the way we "feel". Artistic License is not a license to be ignorant but it seems that the ignorant rely on it so they can be lazy. And if the editors don't know the rules, then the rules are never going to matter. What then? Who will care about the rules when they only care about how they "feel"?
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OokamiKasumi In reply to raspil [2010-03-09 05:18:44 +0000 UTC]
...If it hadn't been for the guidance and advice from the good "critters" in the dA lit community, I'd still be doing it.
-- You are sooo lucky. Too bad the internet hadn't been invented yet when I was first learning to write. (Sigh...)
The only other big hurdle in writing is Chronological Order, also known as Action > Reaction. There's even a book detailing it, "Scene and Structure" by Bickham. I swear it's treated like the biggest secret out there second only to Paragraphing.
Forget murdering your darlings. Murder the word 'as'! It's the biggest culprit to violating chronological order in a sentence there is. Yet no one seems to know it.
I wonder how we lost our way from doing things according to certain rules and began doing them according to the way we "feel"...?
That's easy. It's called: a public school system that teaches Business writing only, college Literature classes that teach how to tear apart a book instead of Creating one, and Creative Writing classes that emphasize free verse and journaling while openly telling their students that writing anything with a plot structure is Formulaic and Uncreative.
Oh, and human laziness.
-- Why should one follow the rules when the Creative Writing teacher said you don't have to?
THIS is why when someone tells me they're taking a fiction writing course, my first question is: How many fiction books has this teacher Published?
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raspil In reply to OokamiKasumi [2010-03-09 06:09:19 +0000 UTC]
I am so glad I found you. That's all I can say right now.
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OokamiKasumi In reply to raspil [2010-03-09 06:26:51 +0000 UTC]
I can already tell that this is the beginning of a Beautiful friendship!
However, when we disagree it's going to shake mountains.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
raspil In reply to OokamiKasumi [2010-03-09 06:35:11 +0000 UTC]
Since I feel that I am agreeing with what we have discussed already, I doubt there will be many disagreements. I mean, I know some stuff but I don't know it all. I'd love to know more and I'd be a fool to fight someone who would be willing to help me help myself.
Cheers!
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OokamiKasumi In reply to raspil [2010-03-09 07:38:39 +0000 UTC]
I don't know it all either! I'm just willing to share what I've learned so far. One of the most valuable lessons I've learned recently was from a fan-fiction author, Kita the Spaz.
I have enormous difficulty writing Emotions. I don't feel the full range like everyone else does so it tends to make my characters rather...cold.
Kita was having a bit of trouble with paragraphing plus chronological order, but her emotional writing and clever wit blew me away! After badgering her into fixing up her writing, I strong-armed her into writing up a tutorial on writing emotions.
Writing Realistic Emotion in Fiction: The Dark Side
It really helped me fill in the gaps. My writing is soooo much better for it.
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raspil In reply to OokamiKasumi [2010-03-10 00:26:23 +0000 UTC]
I have enormous difficulty writing Emotions. I don't feel the full range like everyone else does so it tends to make my characters rather...cold.
I can relate to that. Most of the writing here that is "full of emotion" is actually cliche and repetitive, mostly because it's written by those who still need time to develop a larger range of emotions other than "sad and broken". Emotions don't impress me, I'm all about action and dialogue. Show me something, you know? Emotion doesn't really mean anything to me. An old boyfriend from years gone by told me something when we were having a fight and it has stuck with me ever since: "Stop feeling and start thinking." That has to be one of the best bits of advice I got in my early 20s. I want my characters to think instead of just react to situations. I think that gives them more depth than empathy/sympathy/BS emotions can any day of the week. How do they deal with something after they've thought about it is way more interesting than how they feel about it and watching them cry. We're not therapists, we're writers.
I saved that link for later. Thanks.
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OokamiKasumi In reply to raspil [2010-03-10 09:03:37 +0000 UTC]
...Most of the writing here that is "full of emotion" is actually cliche and repetitive, mostly because it's written by those who still need time to develop a larger range of emotions other than "sad and broken".
This fascination with angst is something I just don't get. Isn't the idea to fix the problem and feel Better, not wallow in it and feel Worse?
Personal Motto:
-- "Never point the gun at yourself. Always point the gun at the Problem."
Thinking is easy for me--too easy.
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raspil In reply to OokamiKasumi [2010-03-10 21:17:22 +0000 UTC]
This fascination with angst is something I just don't get. Isn't the idea to fix the problem and feel Better, not wallow in it and feel Worse?
if they fixed their problem, then no one would give them attention!
I have a hard time remembering the average age of user at deviantART (where this issue is the only place I see it) is teenage. It's not a bad thing, it's just how it is. They'll grow up someday and see how silly they were; I know I did.
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OokamiKasumi In reply to raspil [2010-03-11 02:35:28 +0000 UTC]
If they fixed their problem, then no one would give them attention!
(Rolls eyes.)
-- Teenagers... Oh yeah, THAT'S why I avoided this place for so long.
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raspil In reply to OokamiKasumi [2010-03-11 03:51:38 +0000 UTC]
I think once I accepted them as a thing that wasn't going away, I was able to deal with this place a little better. Accept the things you can't change and change the things you can -- not the most original advice in the universe but I've made it work for me.
Anyway, before I fan the flames beyond control, I want to thank you again for the incredibly valuable information. It will help my writing and editing processes more than I thought was possible.
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OokamiKasumi In reply to raspil [2010-03-11 09:31:23 +0000 UTC]
My pleasure. I'm thrilled I could provide a bit of useful advice!
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shadow-of-ice In reply to ??? [2010-03-08 12:36:00 +0000 UTC]
Thanks for this, it really is very helpful.
And I always love the chance to learn new rules in writing/the English language.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
OokamiKasumi In reply to shadow-of-ice [2010-03-08 12:45:36 +0000 UTC]
I'm glad you liked it!
-- This and writing in Chronological Order (writing your sentences in the exact order that things happened,) are the two hardest things to learn in Fiction-writing. Mainly because they're not taught anywhere--not even in college. (I learned it from my first editor.) Once you have those two things down, any publishing editor will welcome you with open arms. (Of course you have to have a really creative Story too, but hey...?)
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shadow-of-ice In reply to OokamiKasumi [2010-03-08 13:18:44 +0000 UTC]
I find it so strange that these aren't taught anywhere, but this did make me go back over the stuff I'm writing at the moment and, oddly enough, has also cleared up some areas where I've gotten stuck (so thank you again).
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OokamiKasumi In reply to shadow-of-ice [2010-03-08 13:24:12 +0000 UTC]
I have no clue why this isn't taught. I had to learn it from my editor--and I was NOT happy about it, let me tell you.
You'd think that they'd at least teach this in college, but they don't. I've run into a great many college students taking writing courses all over the 'states and every last one of them reported that this was Not something their instructors covered--not even in the graduate classes.
I'm glad this has already provided some help!
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OokamiKasumi In reply to SABRINA628 [2010-03-08 12:29:21 +0000 UTC]
I'm so glad you liked it!
-- Seriously though, this is a HARD tip to follow because it usually means massive rewrites. The first time I found out that THIS was how I was supposed to write I burst into tears. Then I slammed my manuscript into the wall, but that's another issue. *grin*
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SABRINA628 In reply to OokamiKasumi [2010-03-08 20:26:51 +0000 UTC]
Yeah, i always have to rewrite when using this techntic
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OokamiKasumi In reply to SABRINA628 [2010-03-09 03:50:24 +0000 UTC]
It is definitely hard, but once you get used to it, it actually makes writing a story easier--and faster!
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