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Hawkbittern In reply to ProphetTenebrae [2014-07-31 23:34:02 +0000 UTC]

"I think that they kind of dropped the ball with the Hulk title - they had clearly built up this situation where they had pretty much assembled the "Hulk family" but then didn't really know what to do with it - when really, having them deal with Betty's resurrection and out-of-control alter-ego (and, y'know - another one of Bruce's wild oats, Lyra) could have been good"
It might have been good. But on the other hand we they've kind of tried that over at "Agents of S.M.A.S.H" and nobody seems to want to speak up in favour of that. Of course that show had neither Betty or Lyra. Maybe because someone over at Disney thought that boys wouldn't watch a show with three women in it (a dumb attitude in the age of MLP: FIM) or somebody at marvel vetoed Betty because she used to be married to Bruce and marriage is a big no-no at Marvel and DC these days. Take your pick. Also a Hulk family would violate the "Everyone must be miserable" rule.

In as far as Betty becoming a hulk goes, I liked the story you wrote for Brawna.org way better. I wanted to like Red-She hulk but between the fact she's kicked Jen and Lyra's asses way too many times, has multiple personality disorder for no good reason and falls right into the angry, snarky, unpleaseble pseudo-feminist trope I find her irritating and tired. Why can't we have superheroines who are nice?

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ProphetTenebrae In reply to Hawkbittern [2014-08-01 06:49:24 +0000 UTC]

Agents of SMASH is aimed - as far as I can tell - 8-12 year old boys with subnormal intelligence... so, it's less the concept and more the execution... but the reason Disney bought Marvel was that they've historically been weak to the coveted male 18-45 demographic and the received wisdom on that is - you stack the deck toward the sex you're trying to attract.

I'm not sure the Hulk family would necessarily prevent misery... personally, I think it would be pretty funny to have Betty marveling at how Bruce is basically a manwhore/deadbeat dad with children all over time and space. I disliked the fact that they just went "Eh, Lyra can't make up with her father because reasons!", that was easily the weakest part of Savage She-Hulks. Given that Lyra isn't in her genders literally at war universe anymore, she should probably be getting down with the whole "men are OK" thing, especially as her father is one.

Oh, you read my Betty story? I really need to go back and rework that some more but you know what they say about art... Of course, that story was unrepentantly fetish fuel - even if it was dealing with Betty transitioning from being a normal human to a Hulk in a way decidedly at odds with current Marvel policy of instant gamma powers or your money back. Also, my story had sex and we all know that Marvel heroes seldom lower themselves to such base urges.

They never really explain Betty's hulk persona, do they? And both her father AND Rick Jones basically get the same deal with Hulk powers but seem to remain pretty much the same... Maybe it was something to do with being dead.

I think what they were trying to do with Red She-Hulk was make her an anti-hero (or something) but really, it does just make her seem constantly irritable...

I think my main disappointment with her was I thought that the whole Hulked Out Heroes was building up to Jen, Lyra and Betty getting supercharged and saving the day... My mistake there was assuming mere women would be allowed to do anything important in a major storyline event. Schoolboy error.

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Hawkbittern In reply to ProphetTenebrae [2014-08-01 14:12:09 +0000 UTC]

"It's less the concept and more the execution" Ehh, you may be right. It's possible that stacking the deck may have been the motivation for leaving out Betty and Lyra. but it would still leave a score of 3 girls to 4 guys. And like I said. I think it's now definitively disproven that boys wont watch a show with girls in it. I guess the Metroid and Portal games were hit's by pure chance or something?

 "I disliked the fact that they just went "Eh, Lyra can't make up with her father because reasons!"" I wasn't even aware they said that. But yeah it's stupid. Lyra has shown herself to be quite interested in boys (Considering she's from a lesbian planet that must be a shock for her. There must be story poetical there). So they should have her talk with her dad. I guess the editor felt that Bruce should only be in an awkward patental relationship with one child. Maybe having a daughter "Aged him too much" :/

Oh yeah, Marvel heroes never have sex.......... But worse. Your Betty story had a happy marrage! Kryptonite to modern comic book writers! Why mess with a good story though? I Like re-reading the scaucy bits from that one sometimes. I like nice Betty as the strongest one there is. Mmmmmm.

There are three possible explanations for Betty's MPD.
1: Jeph Loeb seemed to think that exposure to gamma rays gives you MPD. This is why Doc Samson turned evil. It's stupid and should never be spoken of again.
2: The truma of dying and coming back to life made Betty create a savage alter ego to endure the stress. This the one Marvel would probably champion if asked. I don't care for it. Plenty of comic book heroes and heroines go through similar or worse stress without turning into Asuka Langley Soryu.
3: This is treading into fan-theory territory (and those things can cause misery) but to me it seems that a line from Betty "They filled me up with rage" suggests to me that The Leader brainwashed and tortured Betty with the intent of making her an angry monstress (why that and not an obedient slave I don't know). If I'm right then I find it disturbing that Marvel is happy to keep the effects of mental rape from healing just so they can have their "Sexy Biker chick". Betty shouldn't be fighting monsters, she should be in therapy!

I think they wanted to have Betty as some sort of Sexy bad bitch. A female Vegeta. But Red She-hulk lacks the redeeming qualities to pull it off. She's less a Vegeta or Rainbow Dash and more Starscream (I am such a nerd).
I appreciate your disappointment with Hulked out heroes.

I hope the artist here doesn't take my dislike for Red She-hulk too badly. One of the things I do like about her is her design (minus the yellow eyes) and he's done that design justice here. She looks quite powerful. I might not care for what they've done Betty but I understand his annoyance at her series being cancelled.

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ProphetTenebrae In reply to Hawkbittern [2014-08-01 20:02:37 +0000 UTC]

I suppose the problem is that within a relatively short span, Bruce ended up with three (possibly four) kids and really, they only seemed interested in working the father/son thing with him and Skaar, perhaps they thought they'd dilute things too much (also, they clearly didn't have that much interest in Lyra, let alone her relationship with her father.

I'm glad that you like Betty... It's always good to find someone who appreciates my work almost as much as I do.

The fan theory seems the most credible - but yes, why they didn't make her (or General Ross or A-Bomb) mindless slaves makes no sense or just obedient... because that would have stopped the plot working, I guess. I mean, there's precedent for mind control not working on the Hulk.

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