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quicksilver22 β Demotivation - Lawful Evil
Published: 2009-01-15 21:25:07 +0000 UTC; Views: 28556; Favourites: 102; Downloads: 14545
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Another in my series of alignment demotivations, this set featuring the characters of Firefly (in this case, Serenity).I tried to find a good pic of Early, but I couldn't. It's all good, though; the Operative is much, much cooler. He's one of the best villains of all time. Nothin' worse than a monster who thinks he's right with God, eh?
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Comments: 16
I've never really seen him as a villian. At least, not in the usual sense.
He always seems to me like a very complex character. The kind of person who accepts that sometimes people have to do heinous acts for the greater good of the universe.
He always reminded me a lot of Section 31 from Star Trek. Capable of doing very shady things, but ultimately wanting to preserve the peace, which I feel was his main motivation in Serenity, as he stopped wanting to kill them as soon as they had revealed the information he was helping to surpress.
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Just stumbled across this and I agree, not really a villain to me. He is just following orders. I have a hard time seeing him as lawful evil too, I felt he was more lawful neutral and at the end closer to true neutral when the Alliance's secret is reveled to him. He doesn't seek to elevate himself like a lawful evil would, just follow the law and the orders he was given regardless of what happens. [link]
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"Just following orders" is a weak justification for killing children, or frankly any evil act. He's Lawful Evil, especially since he himself outright admits that he's a monster. Just because a person thinks they're doing the right thing does not mean they're not evil. A person who does evil from a position of power and authority (as he does) is Lawful Evil.
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Could you remind me when he was killing children? I haven't seen Serenity in a few years.
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Don't actually remember the specific instance of it myself, just that he did it. If he hadn't, then I might be willing to believe he's Lawful Neutral, or at least leaning in that direction. But his having that kind of blood on his hands puts him here.
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After re-watching the movie, I still just cannot see him as Lawful Evil. I also never intended for the "just following orders" to be a justification.Β He does care about freedom, dignity and life, a Lawful Evil does not care or even scorns those sentiments. Lawful Evil is selfishly motivated, they try to rise to a higher status, to use law to impose their will on the world but the Operative does not push for that none of his acts are self motivated. I will readily admit that he ordered evil acts to be committed under the direction of his superiors and he knows this, which is part of why I say Lawful Neutral. His realization that he is a monster and knows there is no place for him in the "perfect" world he is trying to create just further says Lawful Neutral to me. A Lawful Neutral will follow the decrees of the ruling government believing that their "law" for good or evil must be adhered to as it outweighs any moral fallout from his actions. The first example from the link I provided above:
Those of this alignment view regulation as all-important, taking a middle ground betwixt evil and good. This is because the ultimate harmony of the world--and the whole universe--is considered by lawful neutral creatures to have its sole hope rest upon law and order. Evil or good are immaterial beside the determined purpose of bringing all to predictability and regulation. It is the view of this alignment that law and order give purpose and meaning to everything. Without regimentation and strict definition, there would be no purpose in the cosmos. Therefore, whether a law is good or evil is of no import as long as it brings order and meaning.
As for the killing of children, I believe you are thinking of when he admits in a video call in Serenity's cockpit to Mal that he ordered the destruction of Sheppard Book's village. Yes it is by his order that children died but he believed that it was his only option, I am not trying to justify it or absolve him of the evilness of that act I am just saying that to me it sounds from his tone of voice and word choice that he would have preferred not to kill children.
Operative: I'm sorry. If your quarry goes to ground, leave no ground to go to. You should have taken my offer. Or did you think none of this was your fault?
Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: I don't murder children.
Operative: I do. If I have to.
Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: Why? Do you even know why they sent you?
Operative: It's not my place to ask. I believe in something greater than myself. A better world. A world without sin.
Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: So me and mine gotta lay down and die... so you can live in your better world?
Operative: I'm not going to live there. There's no place for me there... any more than there is for you. Malcolm... I'm a monster. What I do is evil. I have no illusions about it, but it must be done.
I realize that there are those who disagree with my opinion but that is what this is, my opinion. Yours can be different and that is fine all I have done here is try to show my reasoning for forming the opinion I have.
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My analysis of the Lawful Neutral alignment is different, and the one cited definition above does little to invalidate mine since multiple "canon" sources (D&D and Pathfinder books) all have somewhat different definitions. For me and the way I see it, a Lawful Neutral character may favor law and order, but they need to also be NEUTRAL in respects to good and evil. So if one consistently performs evil deeds in service to the law, then they're not being neutral in respects to morality, and thus cannot be Lawful Neutral. The alignment requires favoring law over chaos, but not tending too strongly towards good or evil.Β
There also seems to be another major distinction between us: that of prioritizing intentions over actions, or vice-versa. Myself, I put just a bit more stock in actions over intentions. I don't have this mentality of "he thinks he's right, so that makes it okay", or perhaps alternatively "his motives were good, so that makes it okay".
But I don't come from those schools of thought. I also don't believe that selfish automatically denotes evil and that good intentions automatically denotes good or neutral. So this is the point of contrast between us and thus why we come to different conclusions. But for me, a character can be Lawful Evil in spite of believing that they are right. Besides the Operative, I could also put forth the Justice Lords and Magneto as examples of that, and the Operative is worse than them, or at least just as bad. Jet from Avatar in his first appearance is also Lawful Evil, however "good" his intentions might have been. Given time I could likely draw on other examples as well. In fact...
www.giantbomb.com/profile/shroβ¦
Simply put, I see LN as being more along the lines of: "Obey the rules because that's most important, but also be neutral/gray in respects to morality and thus not adhere strongly to either side". When it becomes a case of: "I'll cross any and all moral lines in the pursuit of order" that's to me text-book Lawful Evil, since it entails a profound disregard for life and the well-being of others, even if claims of a trumped up "greater good" are made.
But, like you said, these are opinions being thrown out there. Your reasoning's not terrible, but I still wished to put forth my own as a counterpoint.
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Loved some of your points and can see how you arrived at your conclusion. Also loved some of the examples of Lawful Evil: Loki, Abstergo Industries, The Illusive Man, Galactic Empire, Grand Admiral Thrawn, Claude Frollo, Lord Voldemort and the Imperium of Man.Β Really I think that no matter what label we put on the Operative we have to remember he is Military which in my opinion causes things to get blurred between the alignments anyway.Β Also it is a fictional world and without Mr. Whedon coming right out and saying we will never know for sure. We may disagree but it has been fun discussing this with you.
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Thanks for the kind words. Glad we came to a civilized conclusion.
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He's terrifying....one of my favorite villains. Actually, scratch that....he's my all time favorite.
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Serenity was, in my opinion, the greatest movie ever made. Just like Firefly was the greatest series. Yes, the Operative is a seriously underrated villain, and an amazing character!
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I don't think he thinks he's right with God, he did say and I quote "I'm not going to live there, Mal, there's no place for me there any more than there is for you. I'm a monster..."
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That should be the quote!
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